Seriously 3-5 minute repop on NMs?

It's be different if they didn't do the exact same things as their other bretheran do.
Pyraunt does the exact same moves as all pterocs

No. Just no. First of all 1/50 is NOT a wicked common drop rate. Thank you. Second, waiting hours on end is NOT ENGAGING GAMEPLAY. You are not game designers, nor would I want you to be game designers if you all think waiting around camping something and even potentially LOSING the claim is ENGAGING and EXCITING.

Just no.

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Originally Posted by Reddrag

OMG!!!! Look at me!!! I'm here to whine about NM repop times... I mean seriously you people cry and cry about casual vs. hardcore... don't you see when you whine about something that casual players want, SE will see it, then you whine about hardcore players want, SE will see it too.

Really, quit bitching and understand, you're not the only person they are trying to make happy... It sucks, we know they shouldn't try to focus on everyone and pick only one, but don't you already see how it is, thats not how it works. So the best thing we can do is see that they did that with the repop times and hope they do something else.

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Who cares about people who are going to quit in 2 months? If they make a game that 500k people are going to play for 8 years they'll make more money then a game that 2 million will play for 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Who cares about people who are going to quit in 2 months? If they make a game that 500k people are going to play for 8 years they'll make more money then a game that 2 million will play for 3 months.

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This is a good point. Casual players are fickle people who tend to jump ship easily and often (generalization, but true). They rarely stick with a game for "the long haul"... which is why I don't think that any game should be "Casual focused". They should make it accessible to casuals, but not cater to them.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

This is a good point. Casual players are fickle people. They rarely stick with a game for "the long haul"... which is why I don't think that any game should be "Casual focused". They should make it accessible to casuals, but not cater to them.

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I was a hardcore FFXI player for 6 years and I can tell you I did not enjoy staring at my screen waiting for NMs to spawn, not in the slightest. Engaging time-consuming activities for hardcore players is all well and good. Waste of time, boring, uneventful activities is just bad design and masochistic, not hardcore.

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Originally Posted by snowstriker

I was a hardcore FFXI player for 6 years and I can tell you I did not enjoy staring at my screen waiting for NMs to spawn, not in the slightest. Engaging time-consuming activities for hardcore players is all well and good. Waste of time, boring, uneventful activities is just bad design and masochistic, not hardcore.

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It's a waste of time when the NM does exactly what its lower leveled self does. I solod the pyraunt at r35... i felt like I was fighting a pteroc with a lot of hp... that's it

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

This is a good point. Casual players are fickle people who tend to jump ship easily and often (generalization, but true). They rarely stick with a game for "the long haul"... which is why I don't think that any game should be "Casual focused". They should make it accessible to casuals, but not cater to them.

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Problem is casual run the world in MMO, if they want this they get it because there the key players. But it's true casual players don't even play long enough they leave and play other game.

SE going to lose players matter what, that why everyone still on FFXI. i don't want FFXI hardcore and i don't want wow casual make it in the middle -.-

bad thing that ever happen to ffxiv is make forums they should just make it how they want it and see if players like it then make a poll every few months or every month and see what the review says.

Because sadly listening to the same 15+players on here wont help you make a mmo. Not everyone who playing ffxiv or quit and waiting are getting there voice in FFXIV. So sadly i think polls would be best to hear overall player base and leave the forums for something else.

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Originally Posted by snowstriker

I was a hardcore FFXI player for 6 years and I can tell you I did not enjoy staring at my screen waiting for NMs to spawn, not in the slightest. Engaging time-consuming activities for hardcore players is all well and good. Waste of time, boring, uneventful activities is just bad design and masochistic, not hardcore.

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There are two ways they can keep items that are meant to be rare, rare:

1) Have long spawn times or pop NMs that require a rare item to pop them.
2) Have shorter spawn times but lower drop rate.

There will be people who argue for both options. Both are viable. It doesn't change the fact that both require time to be invested. So they are both "wastes of time" as the uneducated like to refer to them.

I know my master enjoys the update. If she is happy, I am happy ^^.

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Originally Posted by elkhorn

Sorry but Leaping Lizzy in the passed 7 years as been the easiest NM in history of FFXI. you can seriously pop him 15 minutes after death......

This is an NM >.>

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/d/db/Jormungand.png

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that hasn't been proven actually, i spent 10 hours hunting. and took me years to get the dtop.
don't ditch cuz you got lucky.... not everyone is having your luck...
and that is an hnm big difference...

anychance the self proclaim "hardcores" can stop acting like they gods or something.... its really getting annoying to read now,

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

It's a waste of time when the NM does exactly what its lower leveled self does. I solod the pyraunt at r35... i felt like I was fighting a pteroc with a lot of hp... that's it

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Then the argument is to make more engaging and interesting NMs, not increase their spawn time.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I know my master enjoys the update. If she is happy, I am happy ^^.

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Giggity?

/10chars

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

There are two ways they can keep items that are meant to be rare, rare:

1) Have long spawn times or pop NMs that require a rare item to pop them.
2) Have shorter spawn times but lower drop rate.

There will be people who argue for both options. Both are viable. It doesn't change the fact that both require time to be invested. So they are both "wastes of time" as the uneducated like to refer to them.

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You misunderstand, I did not say hardcore mechanics shouldn't have time investments. I said these mechanics with time investments should have players spending that long amount of time being active, not passively waiting in one spot.

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Originally Posted by Reddrag

OMG!!!! Look at me!!! I'm here to whine about NM repop times... I mean seriously you people cry and cry about casual vs. hardcore... don't you see when you whine about something that casual players want, SE will see it, then you whine about hardcore players want, SE will see it too.

Really, quit bitching and understand, you're not the only person they are trying to make happy... It sucks, we know they shouldn't try to focus on everyone and pick only one, but don't you already see how it is, thats not how it works. So the best thing we can do is see that they did that with the repop times and hope they do something else.

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everyone paid the same cash why can't they focus content for all

more ppl can do it easier to find a group to join dude..

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Problem is casual run the world in MMO, if they want this they get it because there the key players. But it's true casual players don't even play long enough they leave and play other game.

SE going to lose players matter what, that why everyone still on FFXI. i don't want FFXI hardcore and i don't want wow casual make it in the middle -.-

bad thing that ever happen to ffxiv is make forums they should just make it how they want it and see if players like it then make a poll every few months or every month and see what the review says.

Because sadly listening to the same 15+players on here wont help you make a mmo. Not everyone who playing ffxiv or quit and waiting are getting there voice in FFXIV. So sadly i think polls would be best to hear overall player base and leave the forums for something else.

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Exactly. I don't want a purely "hardcore" game either. What I advocate is a "middle ground" game that has enough for hardcores to do while still being accessible (read: not catering to) to casuals.

Obviously they made it to where if you defeated it plenty of times you'd get bored and move on after you've gotten your item. This gives more people a chance to do this and at a quicker rate. Everyone is going to swarm these NMs and if the repop was even 20 minutes, people will be whining about how slow they repop.

Hot damn, you can't please everyone can you? Can't you guys complain about something that hasn't JUST BEEN implemented?

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Originally Posted by Visch

Who cares about people who are going to quit in 2 months? If they make a game that 500k people are going to play for 8 years they'll make more money then a game that 2 million will play for 3 months.

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yes, because you dictate who's going to stay and who's going to leave in 2 months, right?
But do go on arbitrarily deciding what other people plan on doing, it's amusing.

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Originally Posted by snowstriker

Then the argument is to make more engaging and interesting NMs, not increase their spawn time.

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He already made the point that MMO's shouldn't cater to casuals because they won't be here as long as hardcores. Spawn times really has nothing to do with that, and with what some of them are dropping now, the timers are nothing. I got canvas slops. Really? I would've rathered exp/sp

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Giggity?

/10chars

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Giggity goo

I suggest a nice relaxing break from FFXIV. I hear there are some wonderful 24hr respawn NMs in FFXI....

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Originally Posted by snowstriker

You misunderstand, I did not say hardcore mechanics shouldn't have time investments. I said these mechanics with time investments should have players spending that long amount of time being active, not passively waiting in one spot.

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I didn't misunderstand... that's exactly what I wrote in point 2)

So you would like to argue for point 2. Others are arguing for point 1. There are valid points on both sides of the argument. But it doesn't change the fact that the same amount of time is spent doing either. How that time is spent is up to the player (if it's a timed spawn, you can go do other things while you're waiting for the next spawn window).

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Originally Posted by Abriael

yes, because you dictate who's going to stay and who's going to leave in 2 months, right?
But do go on arbitrarily deciding what other people plan on doing, it's amusing.

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You have to admit that it is an established pattern that casual players in general don't stay with one game for long periods and move around quite a bit. You're going a bit far with your accusation. When a proven trend exists, it's not "arbitrary".

All those NM's drop at best "average" gear that is something simple for people to get when they level up. Thats it. Lets not make them a Fafnir or something. I'm sure when they come up with some rare pieces the NMs will become more difficult to find.

omg guys stop crying over frkien fast pops

it beats the heck outa camping 1 nm for a mbth because the itens was "required" inorder to get parties. Sorry but even though i had 20 hrs of game play I hated getting foirced into nm camping, it was dulkl and for items that really didn't impress me. Or only used for a short time.
at least its content. SE could have NOT added them... and you would cry over that. These are low level- mid level nms. Get over yourselves.

everybody mad.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

You have to admit that it is an established pattern that casual players in general don't stay with one game for long periods and move around quite a bit. You're going a bit far with your accusation. When a proven trend exists, it's not "arbitrary".

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proof? i knew tomes of casual who played ffxi foir a while till they quit when content wasn'r acessable...
casual will quit a game they can't play 100%.... that would make sence

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I didn't misunderstand... that's exactly what I wrote in point 2)

So you would like to argue for point 2. Others are arguing for point 1. There are valid points on both sides of the argument. But it doesn't change the fact that the same amount of time is spent doing either. How that time is spent is up to the player (if it's a timed spawn, you can go do other things while you're waiting for the next spawn window).

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Nope. It's not nearly the same thing.

An higher spawn rate simply means that more people will have a shot at getting to fight the mob and getting the drop. Which means that the content is more *accessible* to everyone. Actually getting the drop is beyond the point. Accessibility is the key.

Also, the time is spent *fighting* which is a lot less a waste of time and boring than time spent *waiting*

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

You have to admit that it is an established pattern that casual players in general don't stay with one game for long periods and move around quite a bit. You're going a bit far with your accusation. When a proven trend exists, it's not "arbitrary".

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I'm very, very anxious to read or see your "proof". Until then, it's completely arbitrary.
"casual" is simply a blanket indication of time available to spend on gaming in general. It has nothing to do with the time to spend on each game.
WoW has a *crapton* of casual gamers playing on it, and they play only wow, not going anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

everybody mad.

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ya loving these ppl who think their gods gift to gaming, that they are gods whi should be worshiped and everyone else is a slave or no body.

I agree with making droprate lower FOR ENDGAME stuff, but longer spawn time is just no no. I would like to get on and kill stuff and i dont raelly care if i dont get drops, at least i get to have some fun killing stuff with my friends.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Also, the time is spent *fighting* which is a lot less a waste of time and boring than time spent *waiting*

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The point is there is no need for the "waiting". As I said, how the player spends their time is up to them. With timed spawns, if you know the windows, you can do something else in the meantime.

Good example is Valkurm Emperor in FFXI. On average he was a 2 hour spawn. So after he was killed, I knew I had 2 hours to do other things.

Let's look at it this way: Some NM takes 2 hours to spawn. So on average, a Casual player gets one attempt at it per day, and can go about doing other things with their time left. So let's say it takes an average of 1 week for that casual player to get the item.

This is from a spawn time control viewpoint. With a fast respawn, the drop rate has to be lower. So even though the Casual is still getting more attempts at it, he's still limited by his time playing and it still takes him 1 week to get the item.

If you ask me... killing the same thing OVER and OVER is much more boring and repetitive than the excitement of trying to get a claim (every time I managed to claim a contested NM or came close, my blood started pumping). And I'm not "wasting my time waiting" on the NM since I can do other things while I'm waiting for it's spawn window. They are the same thing... you just don't want to see it that way.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

The point is there is no need for the "waiting". As I said, how the player spends their time is up to them. With timed spawns, if you know the windows, you can do something else in the meantime.

Good example is Valkurm Emperor in FFXI. On average he was a 2 hour spawn. So after he was killed, I knew I had 2 hours to do other things.

Let's look at it this way: Some NM takes 2 hours to spawn. So on average, a Casual player gets one attempt at it per day, and can go about doing other things with their time left. So let's say it takes an average of 1 week for that casual player to get the item.

This is from a spawn time control viewpoint. With a fast respawn, the drop rate has to be lower. So even though the Casual is still getting more attempts at it, he's still limited by his time playing and it still takes him 1 week to get the item.

If you ask me... killing the same thing OVER and OVER is much more boring and repetitive than the excitement of trying to get a claim (every time I managed to claim a contested NM or came close, my blood started pumping). And I'm not "wasting my time waiting" on the NM since I can do other things while I'm waiting for it's spawn window. They are the same thing... you just don't want to see it that way.

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um, but if you killed him and went on to do whatever, other people who need him would have to wait 2 hours.


and then what if you came back and someone else was fighting him and then you needed to wait 2 hours for the next kill..

edit: jeeze there's another thread detailing exactly this problem.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Good example is Valkurm Emperor in FFXI. On average he was a 2 hour spawn. So after he was killed, I knew I had 2 hours to do other things.

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Between the traveling back and forth you waste a crapton of time.

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Let's look at it this way: Some NM takes 2 hours to spawn. So on average, a Casual player gets one attempt at it per day, and can go about doing other things with their time left. So let's say it takes an average of 1 week for that casual player to get the item.

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Nope. The fact that the mob spawns a very limited number of times means that it will be overcamped every single time. A casual gamer will *very rarely* manage to get a claim at all.

The more the spawn is distributed overtime, the more people will spread up, the easier it is to find the mob not overcamped, or not camped at all. This means that everyone will have more chances to actually get to fight. Getting the drop itself is beyond the point. The important thing is that everyone gets better *access* to the content.

The excitement of the claim is still there, unless there's absolutely no one else, and quite a lot more often. But doesn't come with the utter frustration of having to wait several hours for the next chance against the same army of botters.

Had a really good time tonight killing some of the new nm's. Even managed to pick up a few of the weapons for my low ranked classes and we managed to get three kokoroon's darkshell mails as well. There was competition but it was a really nice atmosphere. Every one was having a good time and enjoying them self's. Imagine that, people enjoying playing a video game. Shocking.

The difference between XI's NM's and these is the loot you would use for a good long time on multiple jobs. Here even if they did 2 hour spawns with terrible drop rates, no one would care because the loot is pretty generic. So really, who cares if they're on a 5 min timer.

I like the short repop timers. Long respawns on NMs were one of the biggest problems in FFXI, and ruined a lot of the fun.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

I like the short repop timers. Long respawns on NMs were one of the biggest problems in FFXI, and ruined a lot of the fun.

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Then again, it gave the drop item more importance.

This is what people are complaining about.

Hour long repop windows are dead, personally I wont miss them. I'm all for having elusive armour and was a massive NM camper in my XI days. But seriously complaining that they didn't include that massocistic activity in XIV...urg.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Hour long repop windows are dead, personally I wont miss them. I'm all for having elusive armour and was a massive NM camper in my XI days. But seriously complaining that they didn't include that massocistic activity in XIV...urg.

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I have to agree with this guy.

Longer pop times on nm's that drop average/slightly above average gear would be a bit silly, wouldn't' it? I really doubt anyone would even bother to go out of their way if they had to wait hours for a spawn and then wait longer if the items doesn't drop. I know I wouldn't. =/

The long spawn times are ideal for high end gear that people wouldn't mind putting the time and effort into. ^^

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Originally Posted by Tetriana

I have to agree with this guy.

Longer pop times on nm's that drop average/slightly above average gear would be a bit silly, wouldn't' it? I really doubt anyone would even bother to go out of their way if they had to wait hours for a spawn and then wait longer if the items doesn't drop. I know I wouldn't. =/

The long spawn times are ideal for high end gear that people wouldn't mind putting the time and effort into. ^^

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See, I agree with this. We can have "minor NMs" and "major NMs".

But the problem is you get the far leftist casuals (i.e. I'm not saying all casuals are like this) that will argue that there shouldn't be ANY long spawn NMs. Similarly, you'll get the far rightist hardcores that will argue that there shouldn't be ANY short spawn NMs. I hope SE is intelligent enough to just ignore the extremists and create content that is tailored to both styles of play.

Good job Yoshida. The hour long repop times NEED TO GO. It adds no substance and is a remnant of the last decade.

Let it go. Seriously. Let. Go.