New Job System Incoming!!! - But what does this mean??

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Originally Posted by Aldaine

I think that all in all, the whole class and job system that is in place right now should just be completely overhauled. Scrap it and put another one in place. The current system just needs a good replacing.

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I disagree, I like the openness and the ability to restructure yourself to any pattern you prefer. Adding the Job System on top as simply a way to receive a bonus for following a defined path but still allow a user to experiment and control what they have equipped when it comes to skills would be an awesome idea, and one that doesn't really exist currently in MMO space as far as I know or remember.

Why should they if they don't have to?

Some of you would make pretty bad managers to be completely blunt. "We have this structure in place and with proper changes we could make something great out of it... NAAAH, LET THE AXE SWING! NOT MY MONEY LOL"

To be honest it doesn't really matter what any of us think as we aren't the target audience. The people who aren't playing the game are the target and if SE feels they need to do something to get those people playing they will do whatever it takes.

We already have abilities restricted to or optimal for disciple of war or disciple of magic.
Adding a selected job to these restrictions would tie the job system and armory system together nicely.
And perhaps job levels will replace physical levels ( and define the stat point distributions which we currently choose upon leveling up ).

Just speculation of course.

Yes. i do believe some of you are way of, others are closer and the DEV Team is right on.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

To be honest it doesn't really matter what any of us think as we aren't the target audience. The people who aren't playing the game are the target and if SE feels they need to do something to get those people playing they will do whatever it takes.

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Actually wanting to get people back doesn't mean that current players are out of focus. Alienating the current playerbase in the (definitely not safe) gamble to get back part of the lost customerbase would be a quite silly move.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

HOW ABOUT MIXING CLASS NAMES LIKE IN PHANTASY STAR ONLINE UNIVERSE

GLADIADIN, PUGIEF, CONJUMMONER, BLACKTURGE AND LANGOON

thumbs up if u agree

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O god I had to reread this... I seen BLACKTURDE... lmao was a good laugh though

I knew this is gonna happen, he wrote just job system and we already have 13 pages of speculations D:

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease Yoshi give us some info so we'll have something real to talk about, aside our own fantasies ; ;

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Ok so with more thought heres what my ideal system would be

Jobs: You DO NOT level them seperately

Lets take Thm and Conj for example as what you can do.


At rank 1(in either) You unlock "Black Mage", and "White Mage", depending on which job you use, your get bonus's and penalties in the specialties of them.
At rank 20, you unlock "red mage" doing this allows you to get bonus's in everything, but not as high as if you stayed as a black or white mage job(you still have the option to switch at will)
At 50 you unlock X job(dont wanna think something up) which will have its own specializations tooe

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I'm hoping its something like this also, I hope that say for example you specialise as a black mage you no longer can equip white mage spells at all.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Actually wanting to get people back doesn't mean that current players are out of focus. Alienating the current playerbase in the (definitely not safe) gamble to get back part of the lost customerbase would be a quite silly move.

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While that is true if SE believe that by doing something they will gain a million new players but it might risk losing some of the current 30k players, I don't think it would take long for them to make a decision which way they would go.

I am very interested to see what this new job system will be but I hope they will not do half a job of it because they are scared of what the current player base will think because it will effect there progress. I just can not see how the armoury system in it's current state with being able to cross class everything can work. They will need to make some pretty big restrictions somewhere.

Also traditional jobs how can they do it within the current classes. Take CON for example it's basically WHM and BLM in one. So if you get CON to say R50 and get given then gain access to WHM and BLM, what can they do to make those 2 better than CON. CON already has access to ancient magic, so would BLM's only benefit be make it nuke for more?? There has to be some sort of trade off and it will be interesting to see how they do it.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

by doing something they will gain a million new players

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BOOOM! :D

Let's be realistic please.

They need to make no restrictions. By specializing a CON to BLM you can simply get a bonus to nuking and a malus to healing/buffing. The current armory system can work very well with a specialization system, as many proposals that went that way clearly explained.

Taking away what people rightfully earned in game, as yoshida himself said, is not even on the radar.

ffxi's job system would be great!

Because someone suggested it I've decided to try and take points of Kuro's suggestion and merge them with mine and Carpe's idea. The idea is pretty much a result of mixing systems like the License Board, Merit System, and other FF based Character development grids.


1. Remove the Physical Level. It isn't necessary with Jobs. Also remove Physical Experience.
2. No Changes are necessary except minor balances to the current Armoury System, and Any Job can be equipped to any Weapon Class from any Discipline from the Armoury System.
3. On the same screen you select your Skills you wish to equip you also select your Job. The Job at level 1 Only grants Stats.
4. All skills and Spells have a "Learned From" and a "Affinity To" Learned From refers to the Weapon while Affinity refers to the Job. If you equip a skill that is not learned from or has an affinity to your current weapon and job selection you can only use it at 50% power. If you are using it on its weapon OR job you can use it at 100% power. If you use it on your Weapon AND job you can use it at 150% power.

5. Everytime you Use a skill that you have equipped that has an Affinity to the Job you are current playing you get 1 Job Point. (Example White Mage using Cure gets 1 point every time they successfully heal with one spell cast of Cure.)

6. When you have enough Job Points you can spend them to purchase Job Traits From a Grid of Job Traits but can buy any on the grid in any order. Each new trait you buy increases the number of Job Points needed to buy the Next Trait you want no matter what order you buy them in. Every Trait you buy also raises your Job Level 1 time.

7. Every Time your job level goes up your stats raise based on Race + Weapon + Current Job Level.

8. Every Skill you equip that has an Affinity to your Job will also increase one stat a specific amount.

9. When you equip your Job and set your skills those skills are saved if you change jobs and change back the same load out will already be in place from the last time you played as that job.

10. You can respec your traits at any time but you will be returned to Job Level 1 until you respend the Job Points to buy traits.

11. To Start there only need to be 10 Job levels with a choice of 15-20 Traits to possibly equip. More can be added later but the total choices will always be more then how many you can buy in total for the current cap you can never have all the traits active.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

BOOOM! :D

Let's be realistic please.

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Rift has million players so why couldn't FFXIV and from what people say it's just a WoW clone. FFXIV needs something huge that will make those people turned off by it to start looking at it again, I'm not saying the new job system is that thing but it could be part of it and I would really hate for SE to cut corners because they were worried about how the current players would react. If it benefits in the long term I am all for it, lets face it no matter what SE do most of us will still carry on playing. Look at all the fuss over auto attack but I bet most of those people complaining about it will carry on playing anyway.

FFXIV could have a million people but they would have to mainstream it down a lot to a game I wouldn't like very much. That's why I hope XIV gets great, because every other game is generic and boring, and XI was the last game that wasn't generic and boring in my opinion, I don't want XI-2, but if they added more similar classes and better battle they may attract some of those people who I thought would die with their character logged into XI, and they could make that crappy game F2p, and charge for this one.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Rift has million players so why couldn't FFXIV and from what people say it's just a WoW clone. FFXIV needs something huge that will make those people turned off by it to start looking at it again, I'm not saying the new job system is that thing but it could be part of it and I would really hate for SE to cut corners because they were worried about how the current players would react. If it benefits in the long term I am all for it, lets face it no matter what SE do most of us will still carry on playing. Look at all the fuss over auto attack but I bet most of those people complaining about it will carry on playing anyway.

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Let's see how many players RIFT will have in a couple of months, given how wow clones normally collapse in that much time.

If you think that taking away things that people in game acquired will bring back any sizable amount of players, I'm afraid there's a rather big delusion here.
The large majority of gamers, IE the "millions", can't care the less and don't even notice subtle mechanics changes like autoattack and the structure of the class system. What they care about is having something fun and varied to do in the game, which is what is majorly missing in the game and what needs to be added.
Significant injections of content will bring back the numbers (IF that will happen, of course), not subtle systems that for most people are little more than an unnoticeable framework.

Oh something else I just remembered that might have something to do with all this new job system.

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Hello!
We discussed this topic with Yoshida and Minagawa from the development team.

While working on a method to save skill sets has become a very high priority, due to the fact that this is tied to a core game system it will take some time to complete.

Once this is completed, we have plans to link this to improvements to equipment macro convenience, so please look forward to information on this in the future.

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That was one of the Dev's replies to the Save Skill Sets thread. Maybe I am digging to deep into it but that to me suggests that they are looking at adding a change job kinda menu. So you could click BLM and you would change to BLM with all your gear equipped and skill's set automatically.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Oh something else I just remembered that might have something to do with all this new job system.



That was one of the Dev's replies to the Save Skill Sets thread. Maybe I am digging to deep into it but that to me suggests that they are looking at adding a change job kinda menu. So you could click BLM and you would change to BLM with all your gear equipped and skill's set automatically.

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Which has been part of every single one of my job system speculations :P

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

FFXIV could have a million people but they would have to mainstream it down a lot to a game I wouldn't like very much. That's why I hope XIV gets great, because every other game is generic and boring, and XI was the last game that wasn't generic and boring in my opinion, I don't want XI-2, but if they added more similar classes and better battle they may attract some of those people who I thought would die with their character logged into XI, and they could make that crappy game F2p, and charge for this one.

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You can still have a job system and make it unique to FFXIV, but people need to understand, in order to make this game a final fantasy there needs to be that recognizable signature attached to it. FFXI-2 would be better than what is in place because it's the Final Fantasy we know and love. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on not wanting to have copy and paste systems from XI, but it's what we as fans expect in a sense.

When you trail off into something unrecognizable to the series you're taking a big risk and in this case it was unsuccessful. It's about time they start making this Final Fantasy into... well, a Final Fantasy. If that is resorting back to a job system reminiscent to XI (which wasn't exactly the first installment that coined this) then so be it.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Which has been part of every single one of my job system speculations :P

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Excuse me for my bluntness, but I think your system may be skipped over because it's a head ache and you're overreaching.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Because someone suggested it I've decided to try and take points of Kuro's suggestion and merge them with mine and Carpe's idea. The idea is pretty much a result of mixing systems like the License Board, Merit System, and other FF based Character development grids.


1. Remove the Physical Level. It isn't necessary with Jobs. Also remove Physical Experience.
2. No Changes are necessary except minor balances to the current Armoury System, and Any Job can be equipped to any Weapon Class from any Discipline from the Armoury System.
3. On the same screen you select your Skills you wish to equip you also select your Job. The Job at level 1 Only grants Stats.
4. All skills and Spells have a "Learned From" and a "Affinity To" Learned From refers to the Weapon while Affinity refers to the Job. If you equip a skill that is not learned from or has an affinity to your current weapon and job selection you can only use it at 50% power. If you are using it on its weapon OR job you can use it at 100% power. If you use it on your Weapon AND job you can use it at 150% power.

5. Everytime you Use a skill that you have equipped that has an Affinity to the Job you are current playing you get 1 Job Point. (Example White Mage using Cure gets 1 point every time they successfully heal with one spell cast of Cure.)

6. When you have enough Job Points you can spend them to purchase Job Traits From a Grid of Job Traits but can buy any on the grid in any order. Each new trait you buy increases the number of Job Points needed to buy the Next Trait you want no matter what order you buy them in. Every Trait you buy also raises your Job Level 1 time.

7. Every Time your job level goes up your stats raise based on Race + Weapon + Current Job Level.

8. Every Skill you equip that has an Affinity to your Job will also increase one stat a specific amount.

9. When you equip your Job and set your skills those skills are saved if you change jobs and change back the same load out will already be in place from the last time you played as that job.

10. You can respec your traits at any time but you will be returned to Job Level 1 until you respend the Job Points to buy traits.

11. To Start there only need to be 10 Job levels with a choice of 15-20 Traits to possibly equip. More can be added later but the total choices will always be more then how many you can buy in total for the current cap you can never have all the traits active.

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I feel like if you wanted to mix your system and Kuro's, it'd be easier to start off with your system (jobs are crowns/titles which limit your accessibily to classes/weapons, while also boosting specific skills), and then adding talent specs to each of the specific jobs.

For example: your Paladin crown could be specialized into offense or defense. Speccing into defense would make your paladin more proficient with defense-related skills, while speccing into offense would make him better with damage related skills.

Odds are the paladin who specced into offense would spend most of his time with Lancer, while the one specced into defense would favor Gladiator/Sentinel (see the first picture I linked). They still have the option to switch weapons and use the other class, but they won't be as good with it unless they choose the right talents.

To use another picture as an example, assuming white mages could either spec into healing or buffing, this could be their healing tree in this system too: picture. The picture was initially made for Kuro's system, but simply replace "Conjurer" with "White Mage" and "White Mage" with "Healing tree".

The system becomes a little complex at this point, however... especially if all options have to be balanced. Which is why I didn't really try to push this option, back when we had the "job wars".

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Originally Posted by solracht

I feel like if you wanted to mix your system and Kuro's, it'd be easier to start off with your system (jobs are crowns/titles which limit your accessibily to classes/weapons, while also boosting specific skills), and then adding talent specs to each of the specific jobs.

For example: your Paladin crown could be specialized into offense or defense. Speccing into defense would make your paladin more proficient with defense-related skills, while speccing into offense would make him better with damage related skills.

Odds are the paladin who specced into offense spent most of his time with Lancer, while the one specced into defense would favor Gladiator/Sentinel (see the first picture I linked).

To use another picture as an example, assuming white mages could either spec into healing or buffing, this could be their healing tree in this system too: picture.

The system becomes a little complex at this point, however... especially if all options have to be balanced. Which is why I didn't really try to push this option back when we had the "job wars".

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I think the misconception behind that picture I made is that your limited to those three choices. I just didn't make the mesh fill out for everything. Non of the systems I have proposed limit you from choices of weapons for a specific job. or vis versa.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

You can still have a job system and make it unique to FFXIV, but people need to understand, in order to make this game a final fantasy there needs to be that recognizable signature attached to it. FFXI-2 would be better than what is in place because it's the Final Fantasy we know and love. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on not wanting to have copy and paste systems from XI, but it's what we as fans expect in a sense.

When you trail off into something unrecognizable to the series you're taking a big risk and in this case it was unsuccessful. It's about time they start making this Final Fantasy into... well, a Final Fantasy. If that is resorting back to a job system reminiscent to XI (which wasn't exactly the first installment that coined this) then so be it.




Excuse me for my bluntness, but I think your system may be skipped over because it's a head ache and you're overreaching.

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Exactly my point. I would actually prefer Job/Sub Job with role clearly defined and traditional. I thought it was a great system and had enough flexibility, yes /NIN did kinda break it but as long as SE don't make the same mistake and keep thing balanced it would be great. I really don't like the mish mash we have in FFXIV and I don't think anything other than a complete strip and rewrite will change it. Being able to cross class is a balancing nightmare and is most likely the reason all the classes are meh because if they had something great you would level that class just to get it to stick it on something else.

If they keep the current system and build on it then it's going to need a lot more restrictions and class specific abilities and traits.

This is also my other point a lot of the current players don't want to be "pigeon-holed" (hate that phrase) but maybe a lot more people actually like filling a certain role. You need to fill a certain role, if you want to be a Tank you level PLD, if you want to be a healer you level WHM, if you want to be a DD you level DRK or another DD class and so on. Classes need definition and with the current system I can't see how it can be achieved. I have read a lot of the suggestions and they all seem to just be putting a plaster over the underlying problem with the system.

Like I said it will be interesting to see what SE has planned and can't wait for more info.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Exactly my point. I would actually prefer Job/Sub Job with role clearly defined and traditional. I thought it was a great system and had enough flexibility, yes /NIN did kinda break it but as long as SE don't make the same mistake and keep thing balanced it would be great. I really don't like the mish mash we have in FFXIV and I don't think anything other than a complete strip and rewrite will change it. Being able to cross class is a balancing nightmare and is most likely the reason all the classes are meh because if they had something great you would level that class just to get it to stick it on something else.

If they keep the current system and build on it then it's going to need a lot more restrictions and class specific abilities and traits.

This is also my other point a lot of the current players don't want to be "pigeon-holed" (hate that phrase) but maybe a lot more people actually like filling a certain role. You need to fill a certain role, if you want to be a Tank you level PLD, if you want to be a healer you level WHM, if you want to be a DD you level DRK or another DD class and so on. Classes need definition and with the current system I can't see how it can be achieved. I have read a lot of the suggestions and they all seem to just be putting a plaster over the underlying problem with the system.

Like I said it will be interesting to see what SE has planned and can't wait for more info.

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Carpe's system replaces the Job/Subjob ideal with Job/Weapon The Job defines your role. the weapon defines how you perform it. pretty similar to how the Job/Subjob worked but allows the Job System and Armoury system to work together without having to completely redo the armoury.

I just figured that you limited it to weapons that made sense for the job after seeing that picture. I didn't really agree with the complete freedom that your first system had as far as weapons/classes and jobs went, I thought you compromised after reading Carpe's idea, but apparently this went over my head. Dragoons with scepters, wands, bows and hand-to-hand weapons have no ground to stand on, and that's not the only "silly" example.

I see our current "job" as bare, freelancer, adventurer, etc. Someone who can use pretty much everything. By becoming a job, your weapon proficiency would be a little more limited, while your available weapons would be boosted.

I apologize for the confusion then.

"Obviously some combinations will not "work" when it comes to usefulness in game but I feel it should be up to the player to determine that and not the Game. The game should give you the tools to do what you want. If what you want to do doesn't work you tweak it till it does.

Dragoon are not Weapon Specialized to Polearms. Yes that is their favored weapon but they can use a wide variety of weapons as seen in games like Tactics and XI.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Dragoon are not Weapon Specialized to Polearms. Yes that is their favored weapon but they can use a wide variety of weapons as seen in games like Tactics and XI.

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Notice I never said polearms only, rather I mentioned the "silly" ones. I'm well aware of all of the weapons they could use.

Either way, the Crown+Talent system still works even if the weapon freedom went over my head. The job talent trees would not be about a weapon, but rather about role. If your Paladin wanted to use 2 swords, axe, lance.... bow or hand to hand, odds are he'd want to spec into the Offensive tree. If he wanted to tank (any one-handed+shield), he'd want to spec into the Defensive tree.

He could still use any weapon, but the trees would define how the job interacts with them even more, beyond what the job itself already did.

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Originally Posted by solracht

Notice I never said polearms only, rather I mentioned the "silly" ones. I'm well aware of all of the weapons they could use.

Either way, the combination system still works even if the weapon freedom went over my head. The job talent trees would not be tied to a weapon, but rather a role. If your Paladin wanted to use 2 swords, axe, lance.... bow or hand to hand, odds are he'd want to spec into the Offensive tree. If he wanted to tank (any one-handed+shield), he'd want to spec into the Defensive tree.

He could still use any weapon, but the trees would define how the job interacts with them even more, beyond what the job itself already did.

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Correct.

Also I like the idea of Paladin having access to the Mage Weapons For uses as a Holy DD Spell Caster running around nuking with Holy/Dia/Etc and side job Healing.

Seems like it would be fun. Kinda like a Cleric from D&D.

I hope it isnt Job/Subjob...

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Originally Posted by solracht

I see our current "job" as bare, freelancer, adventurer, etc. Someone who can use pretty much everything. By becoming a job, your weapon proficiency would be a little more limited, while your available weapons would be boosted.

I apologize for the confusion then.

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This is how I vision the current "classes" they are just a mish mash with no focus. I am not sure how to explain it fully but I always thought of the current classes as kinda the street punks you see in movies. Then they meet a true master who trains them to be better then using a combination there new found skills from the master and what they learned on the street they become the best.

Thats how I would love for them to introduce the traditional classes in FFXIV. With the "coming danger" I think it would be really great if all of a sudden you found out that your R50 MRD was nothing compared to the real beasties hiding in zones yet unseen. For the "unlock" mission you could go somewhere and get owned by something only to have a full AF DRK come and take it down no problem and thus your quest to becoming a Dark Knight has started.

I know a lot of people wouldn't like that though as it would kinda make all the time they spent getting to R50 see pointless but I still think it would be cool ^^

can someone please link the post about these new changes coming ? for some reason i can not seem to find them

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Equipment_Abilities

well i mean its not like using weapons unusual for your class is unheard of.

I wonder if they have plans regarding the DOL/DOH

They said the two options were:

Specialisations within the armory system

OR

Jobs as advanced classes

So it is one of those.

If you notice, he mentions the Armory system is staying... So there will be the Armory system and the Job system. I'm sure Armory will work pretty similar to what it is now. I bet the Job system will be something where if you have X ranks in 2 or more Classes or X skills equipped from a combination of classes, it will unlock an "advanced job" sort of thing.

This is so bad Lock it. SO so so so so bad. me included...

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Hopefully something similar to what me and Carpe have been saying this whole time.

It wont Scrap or Touch the Armoury System and instead will fit ontop of it kinda like when you build two individual puzzles but then realize they fit together as well making an even larger whole.

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Yeah, the language seems to imply the two systems will coexist together in some way.

I am in favor of Jobs.

I am strongly against Apple.

Double Rainbow!

The mystery and anticipation makes it exciting...

Its really weird adding the job system and keep the arm system at the same time,am looking forward to more info on this....hurry up yoshi!!!!!!