Fishing in ARR

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

Please look at the new updated Q&A posted March 6, which states (emphasis mine):

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"Although there will be a few skills" implies those skills are mostly unimportant or very simple. As if they are an extra component rather than being something important, which again implies that the system will be very simple.

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1/FisherAF.jpg

More almost-news! Seems they've updated the class lists on the official site now. No mention of the mechanics of fishing, but the last line seems to imply that we can hopefully expect something actually involved. If I have to worry about all of those things, I'll be pretty please.

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Fishers are the harvesters of the realm's marine and freshwater animal resources.
The trade rose to prominence in the nation of Limsa Lominsa, owing to the plentiful waters upon and around Vylbrand island. Be it from the shore of a sea, the bank of a river, or the deck of a boat, Eorzea's anglers must constantly account for a wide range of factors to optimize their success, including season, time, place, tools, and bait.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/static...arapic_001.png

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Unrelated, but holy crap the CUL AF-wearing miqo'te is adorable. Almost makes me want to take up cooking!

That's what all of us gentlemen fishers look like. ;)

That's right, ladies. ;)

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Originally Posted by Nix

I can't help but be worried by this, I was hoping for some kind of minigame but from the sounds of this it looks like it's going to be a point-and-wait deelio D:

I am hoping that my understanding of this statement was wrong ><, I'm not usually one to grumble but taking the mini-game aspect out of fishing kinda feels odd, like hitting 'fish' and just waiting would get kinda old... it'd be easy, but old D:


Please, if you're reading this dear Reps; bribe Yoshi with red bull and shiny new accessories until he rethinks this course of action. ><

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There used to be a mini -game- on 1.0... and honestly the amount of people that enjoyed it was very little (if compared to the people that played the game) which is probably the reason why it got simplified so much.

And yes sure, they could keep it complex and only a few people will do any fishing... but if that is the case, then they are failing at their objective, which is make the game enjoyable to everyone. This includes every feature on it.

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Originally Posted by Vogue

There used to be a mini -game- on 1.0... and honestly the amount of people that enjoyed it was very little (if compared to the people that played the game) which is probably the reason why it got simplified so much.

And yes sure, they could keep it complex and only a few people will do any fishing... but if that is the case, then they are failing at their objective, which is make the game enjoyable to everyone. This includes every feature on it.

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You're deluding yourself if you think any activity in an MMO that isn't fighting will receive mass attention. This is the concern. They could make the new system so simple that it would do it for you, and the amount of people who actually do it would still be miniscule compared to the overall population. Oversimplification won't lead to a higher percentage of adoption. Instead, you'll see a lot of people trying it at first, then that number will drop off rapidly because it's not combat. It's tedium. The population you'll be left with a few months after launch will be bots, the very few that find they like the new system, and the original fishers who aren't happy with the new system. I can assure you the latter group will make up the majority of that population.

If that's the case, then what was the point of simplifying it? All you've managed to do is make the original fishers unhappy. For some reason the common thought among people who don't gather is that the boredom was due to the apparent complexity of the mechanics, so simplifying it will make it more accessible. There are ways however to keep it complex without driving you to tears. The combo system had its own complexity, and people loved it (in 1.23). The Battle Regimen system had a somewhat complex mechanic and people are still clamoring for it to be added back to the game. Complexity can be fun. The problem with the 1.0 mechanics was that they were a combination of intimidating to start, badly explained, and boring once you got the hang of it. Even I'll admit they were boring. It became so easy that I could fish without watching the screen, relying purely on muscle memory and sound. So knowing that, the fix is obvious. You can remove the intimidation by providing a good tutorial. You can remove the boredom by actually increasing complexity.

No matter what they do, they'll never please everyone. GW2 tried to do that, and every class is boring for it. Deny it all you want, but it's a certain personality that truly enjoys gathering/crafting above combat, and vice versa. Trying to bend the gathering classes to be more appealing to fighters is not only a waste of time because it just won't work over a large enough population to matter, but because it's insulting to the other players. Those of us who do enjoy gathering more.

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Originally Posted by Vogue

... but if that is the case, then they are failing at their objective, which is make the game enjoyable to everyone. This includes every feature on it.

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They/you must realize this is an untenable position. DoL is and always will be a niche attraction. They really dont need to alienate the lovers for the sake fo the haters now do they? That being said the one sentence that gives me hope is the last one:

"Eorzea's anglers must constantly account for a wide range of factors to optimize their success, including season, time, place, tools, and bait"

at least they're giving it some kind of thought. thats...something!

Yes but there won't be a mini game related to it.... and lovers will always do gathering, even if it is easier, now when it comes to haters, they might try it if it isn't boring/long/complex (not my words) like it used to be in 1.0.

And while you cannot make everyone happy, you can try to make MORE people happy by making some changes. And the goal is make more people happy, not just keep the features as they were in 1.0 to please the few players that enjoyed it back then.

It takes a special person to love fishing in FF.

What's that? You don't like it? *bops you with my golden fishing rod*

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Originally Posted by Joshster

It takes a special person to love fishing in FF.

What's that? You don't like it? *bops you with my golden fishing rod*

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Gold rod represent :D

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Originally Posted by Vogue

Yes but there won't be a mini game related to it.... and lovers will always do gathering, even if it is easier, now when it comes to haters, they might try it if it isn't boring/long/complex (not my words) like it used to be in 1.0.

And while you cannot make everyone happy, you can try to make MORE people happy by making some changes. And the goal is make more people happy, not just keep the features as they were in 1.0 to please the few players that enjoyed it back then.

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Yeah I get what your saying, but they really seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this one. Granted none of us have any idea what FSH is going to be like so Im not saying its ruined or anything melodramatic like that. Just seems that they could have listened to us a little more, heard what we think is golden and what we think sucks. Instead they appear to have just steamrolled over the whole thing. But hey! If Scholar can happen, anything can!

My personal hope would be for something like the fishing currently in FF XI. The original FF XI system was boring.. just sitting and waiting.

I felt that the FF XIV 1.0 fishing minigame was tedious and not fun. I didn't like any of the "pick your parameters and then perform action" type mini games from 1.0, honestly.

Looking forward to what they have in store for us in Phase 3. Fishing may be the first thing I do because I really am curious what they've done with it.

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

Yeah I get what your saying, but they really seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this one. Granted none of us have any idea what FSH is going to be like so Im not saying its ruined or anything melodramatic like that. Just seems that they could have listened to us a little more, heard what we think is golden and what we think sucks. Instead they appear to have just steamrolled over the whole thing. But hey! If Scholar can happen, anything can!

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Yeah, I also did enjoy the mini game type of gathering, it felt more like a challenge rather than just a small task we had to perform to be able to craft something. I still hope there is something more challenging to the high level gathering, and deep sea fishing would be sweet!!!

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Originally Posted by Robobandit

My personal hope would be for something like the fishing currently in FF XI. The original FF XI system was boring.. just sitting and waiting.

I felt that the FF XIV 1.0 fishing minigame was tedious and not fun. I didn't like any of the "pick your parameters and then perform action" type mini games from 1.0, honestly.

Looking forward to what they have in store for us in Phase 3. Fishing may be the first thing I do because I really am curious what they've done with it.

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I wouldn't mind this; I agree with you, the original system in XI was boring, but fighting your fish was really fun!
Ass in the bait/rod swaps on location and it's just complicated enough without it being an exercise in tedium

Super excited!!!! My Fisher was 25 in 1.0 but 100 in XI (Ebisu, the whole nine yards). I always wanted to be able to continue fishing and so glad it now seems they will give it respect and not toss it to the back burner.

Also, OMG THE NEW OUTFITS!!!! :D

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Originally Posted by JillyBean

Super excited!!!! My Fisher was 25 in 1.0 but 100 in XI (Ebisu, the whole nine yards). I always wanted to be able to continue fishing and so glad it now seems they will give it respect and not toss it to the back burner.

Also, OMG THE NEW OUTFITS!!!! :D

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Yes, I have 50 fisher on a 'fishing only' alt, and 45 fisher on my main. It was definitely my favorite DoL, and one of my favorite ingame activities overall. I was so mad when they said they were gonna ditch it as a real class, but now it looks like it's back, and I'm thrilled! :3

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Yes, I have 50 fisher on a 'fishing only' alt, and 45 fisher on my main. It was definitely my favorite DoL, and one of my favorite ingame activities overall. I was so mad when they said they were gonna ditch it as a real class, but now it looks like it's back, and I'm thrilled! :3

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Well I hate to be that guy who rains on everyone's parade but we really don't know for sure if it is back or not. Yoshi-P's previous statements that one should be able to talk to friends while fishing COULD mean there will be no action or skills required or it COULD mean that it will be easier or less time dependent so that you could hook a fish, watch tv, and reel it in 10 minutes later.

It is definitely good that we have to account for various parameters like temperature, depth, yada yada... but that doesn't mean it won't be automatic. Gardening in FFXI was automatic but with a lot of parameters to consider and while that worked for gardening it would definitely NOT work for fishing.

I guess I am saying don't assume anything good or bad until we see it in action in phase 3. Stay vigilant though! And be ready to respond as a community if our original fears end up being realized in phase 3.

I think the fishing concept sounds rather neat. It sounds like it's turned into a more, relaxing experience, where you can just figure out what may be the best point to fish from and just cast while you do things like HW, watch tv, chat with others waiting for events to start, clean the house etc. It sounds like the concept of fishing will be something anyone can pickup to enjoy on a casual sense, but those who learn the best location to fish from, figure out the best rod/lure combination will be the ones to reap the most rewards.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I think the fishing concept sounds rather neat. It sounds like it's turned into a more, relaxing experience, where you can just figure out what may be the best point to fish from and just cast while you do things like HW, watch tv, chat with others waiting for events to start, clean the house etc. It sounds like the concept of fishing will be something anyone can pickup to enjoy on a casual sense, but those who learn the best location to fish from, figure out the best rod/lure combination will be the ones to reap the most rewards.

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I'm so excited to clean my house while fishing. Can't wait.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I think the fishing concept sounds rather neat. It sounds like it's turned into a more, relaxing experience, where you can just figure out what may be the best point to fish from and just cast while you do things like HW, watch tv, chat with others waiting for events to start, clean the house etc. It sounds like the concept of fishing will be something anyone can pickup to enjoy on a casual sense, but those who learn the best location to fish from, figure out the best rod/lure combination will be the ones to reap the most rewards.

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Here's a thought. If you want to do homework, turn off the game.
If you want to clean your house, turn off the game.
If you want to watch tv, turn off the game.
If you want to chat with your friends, find a comfy spot in Ul'dah and chat with your friends.

DO NOT decide that fishing as a class is the class that gets changed for the sake of AFK.

EDIT: I'll turn it around for you. I see that you have your class set to CRP, and you've leveled it to 50. Say SE decided that, since few people like CRP, they'll change the mechanics to benefit people who don't actually feel like playing. You could sit at your computer and control the synth, or you could tell it to do the same thing so that you can go watch tv. Or clean the house. Or chat. They'll turn crafting into the most mindless, pointless exercise so that people who feel like not doing it can still do it. And to top it all off, they'll remove any power in the economy you may have had.

Because the new carpentry is for chatting.

No class deserves this change. Fishers in 1.0 put a lot of work into the class. I can assure you I don't fish to chat. I don't want the option of maybe, if I feel like, having control of fishing. I want to fish, and I want to be good at it, and nuts to people who feel like going AFK. You want to ruin a class for people who can't sit down in front of a computer for a few hours? Make a new one. Call it the Idle class. It can have Ul'dah Squatter as a job.

I maxed Botanist and Fisher on 1.0 and thought the minigames been pretty fun... Kinda sad to hear there won't be minigames anymore...

Only thing is it took so long to max anything would get boring even if it was the best minigame ever XD

But as a minigame I enjoyed 1.0 fishing and Botanist.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I think the fishing concept sounds rather neat. It sounds like it's turned into a more, relaxing experience, where you can just figure out what may be the best point to fish from and just cast while you do things like HW, watch tv, chat with others waiting for events to start, clean the house etc. It sounds like the concept of fishing will be something anyone can pickup to enjoy on a casual sense, but those who learn the best location to fish from, figure out the best rod/lure combination will be the ones to reap the most rewards.

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Also I agree with LlenCoram...

If you have stuff to do then don't play the game, the game should lure your attention off the TV and not the other way around... XD They could give us standalone minigames for waiting for events, like card games... And not tie a class for it... That's why I thought crafting been so boring in 1.0 (and probably on 2.0 too) you just spammed Enter key and all crafter classes basically worked the same... (no different minigames)

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Classes and Jobs
Version 1.0 characters will retain their class and job levels. Unlike new characters, they will immediately have access to the Armoury system and possess the ability to change classes.
* Grand Company gear can only be equipped if you are enlisted in the corresponding company.
* Fisher will not be available in phase 3.

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For ****'s sake SE. This isn't even funny anymore. You're actually going to leave an entire class, with what you claim is completely different mechanics to the final, open beta?

The beta that will be primarily stress testing?

So basically if we don't like what we see we're shit out of luck?

This is getting absolutely ridiculous.

EDIT: Can we at least get a dev in here to talk to us? Anything?! We've got three or four massive threads with nothing but fishers begging for information. Maybe we've kept it too polite and we should be spamming GD with threads like these, each of us fishers making our own threads.

I know you guys are bound by what you can and can't say, but there must be something you can tell us. Stop ignoring us already.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

For ****'s sake SE. This isn't even funny anymore. You're actually going to leave an entire class, with what you claim is completely different mechanics to the final, open beta?

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It's a *little* bit funny if you read the situation as that S-E are specifically trolling you. :)

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

The beta that will be primarily stress testing?

So basically if we don't like what we see we're shit out of luck?

This is getting absolutely ridiculous.

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I'm taking a more positive spin on things. It's not in B3 because it's undergoing so many changes right now that it's simply not ready. Remember, they have to add in boats! Multi-fisher Instances! Fishing Competitions! Culinarian recipes for the ridiculous amounts of seafood and subsequently different food effects from the menagerie of piscine dishes that will be available! Treasure Maps! Undersea Adventures! Ancient Slumbering Threats drawn to the surface by Legendary Rod-Wielders!

The possibilities are endless.

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

It's a *little* bit funny if you read the situation as that S-E are specifically trolling you. :)



I'm taking a more positive spin on things. It's not in B3 because it's undergoing so many changes right now that it's simply not ready. Remember, they have to add in boats! Multi-fisher Instances! Fishing Competitions! Culinarian recipes for the ridiculous amounts of seafood and subsequently different food effects from the menagerie of piscine dishes that will be available! Treasure Maps! Undersea Adventures! Ancient Slumbering Threats drawn to the surface by Legendary Rod-Wielders!

The possibilities are endless.

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Sorry, I'm not as positive.

At this point though, I'm starting to wonder if you're right. Maybe they're doing this specifically to make me as angry as humanly possible.

The worst part is we'll continue to be stonewalled. Even though everyone else will get all the information they need, we'll get nothing. No community rep will swing by with some info, no devs will have anything to say. We'll be left completely in the black, as they've done since the very beginning. It's ridiculous.

EDIT: I don't even know if I can bitch about half the stuff I want to bitch about because of the NDA.

My guess is either Yoshi-P has seen your enthusiasm and has cruelly pulled Fishing at the last minute with a maniacal, evil laugh (he's already probably deleted all your fishing gear on your v1 character(s), too); or maybe Fishing just isn't ready due to complex interaction with in-game systems, and/or because SE read our feedback and/or Yoshi-P didn't find the current ARR system fun enough yet, and made them make it better.

Did you like Fishing in FFXI? Most boring thing ever. Push a button, fish caught. Push a button, fish caught. Until they changed it after NA launch, partially to combat RMT. And then later tweaked for the same reason. And then later changed a little more. And then...

Point being: introducing Fishing at phase 4 doesn't mean it's locked that way forever. Any more than PvP, housing, free company points, and other things that we won't see until Phase 4, launch or beyond.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

My guess is either Yoshi-P has seen your enthusiasm and has cruelly pulled Fishing at the last minute with a maniacal, evil laugh (he's already probably deleted all your fishing gear on your v1 character(s), too); or maybe Fishing just isn't ready due to complex interaction with in-game systems, and/or because SE read our feedback and/or Yoshi-P didn't find the current ARR system fun enough yet, and made them make it better.

Did you like Fishing in FFXI? Most boring thing ever. Push a button, fish caught. Push a button, fish caught. Until they changed it after NA launch, partially to combat RMT. And then later tweaked for the same reason. And then later changed a little more. And then...

Point being: introducing Fishing at phase 4 doesn't mean it's locked that way forever. Any more than PvP, housing, free company points, and other things that we won't see until Phase 4, launch or beyond.

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You're right, but it does mean that of all the classes, we'll have the "least finished" class if it requires the most tweaks post-launch. How is that fair? I suppose as far as fisher population they've decided they don't care.

I still think we're too polite. We keep everything in one place, instead of spamming general discussion. Maybe we should start doing that.

I'm as put off by SE's lack of information about Fisher as you are. Sometimes I wonder if we should be clamoring for PvP fishing, since thats the only thing Yoshi seems to get excited about. But the delay is actually encouraging. I can only assume it means they're working hard on it. Of course it could also mean they've been blowing it off like a college exam and now they're scrambling to slap it together. On top of which it's wednesday...when the hell's the next beta??

I posted this question in my fishing thread, but I guess being polite isn't working, so here it is again:

SE, can you give us a timeframe for when we'll see fisher, either info or in game?

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

For ****'s sake SE. This isn't even funny anymore. You're actually going to leave an entire class, with what you claim is completely different mechanics to the final, open beta?

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Same claim they have for the only pet class the game as seen being in the same friggen state.
I don't know what those claims are though (and don't particularly care I have faith)

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Originally Posted by Skies

Same claim they have for the only pet class the game as seen being in the same friggen state.
I don't know what those claims are though (and don't particularly care I have faith)

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At least we'll get to see video of arcanist/summoner at E3 next week.

Please, SE, show us a glimpse of fishing? If it's "super-SECRET", could you at least tell us that it's super secret? And will we find out more at E3? Phase 4? Launch? other? I hope you will consider this request.

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

I'm taking a more positive spin on things. It's not in B3 because it's undergoing so many changes right now that it's simply not ready.

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This is where I'm at with it. I almost raged this morning when I saw Fishing won't be available in Phase 3, as it was the very first thing I wanted to test. But then I stopped to think about it. After reading the flavor text for fisherman and some of the translated stuff, it could very well be that Fisher is going to be so different than the other DoLs that they're still working on it to make it so it's not some mindless minigame. (this might be thanks to the emphatic feedback posts regarding fishing)

I'm in the same boat (haha) as you Llen, but we'll just have to be patient about this and hope that it turns out for the best. Yoshi-P hasn't disappointed me yet with his vision for the game, so I can only hope he can make fishing be something we can enjoy.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

You're right, but it does mean that of all the classes, we'll have the "least finished" class if it requires the most tweaks post-launch. How is that fair? I suppose as far as fisher population they've decided they don't care.

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To be fair, we're not going to get hands on Arcanist, Summoner or Scholar (and whatever its associated class is assuming it doesn't branch off Arcanist) until post launch, so they're all going to require some post launch tweaking since QA can only do so much in house. Players are good at finding creative ways to break things, so it's inevitable those classes/jobs will require some changes as well.

Best case scenario is we can hope that fishing will be ready for Phase 4 where there's still a small window of opportunity to test it and get some bug reports and feedback sent in so that it can be more polished for official release.

I appreciate some of this optimism but it's not just entitled complaining now.

Every other FFXIV class from 1.0 has gotten a complete redesign and rebalance in the space of development thus far EXCEPT FISHER.

Maybe fisher has a lot to rebalance. But the game wouldn't dare to launch if Monk wasn't finished. Monk, the class which all monks claim is the least important and interesting of the DoWs, the one that SE always neglect, the one they never think about when designing endgame dungeons, that one. If Monk wasn't ready for phase 3, nobody would find it acceptable.

All this communicates is precisely that fishers are literally the very bottom of the barrel, no pun intended. Square Enix cares about everything else related to FFXIV MORE than it cares about getting fisher properly finished, and it doesn't even care to assuage the people affected.

As Llen has said, fine. You care about us the least. Fine, that much is perfectly clear. Could you at least bother sending a representative to tell us something? Other than "hah, no, we can't even spare a second to read or address your concerns, nobody cares?"

Ridiculous.

I'm so glad to see this thread still going!
I read today that Fisher will not be included in phase 3, I guess we have to wait a bit longer to see what it's like :(

Take care evreewaaahn! And I hope you have many good dreams of pulling in mega-feeesh.

"* Fisher will not be available in phase 3."

*cries* It must be drastically different if it is still not ready.

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Originally Posted by Fatestorm

I appreciate some of this optimism but it's not just entitled complaining now.

Every other FFXIV class from 1.0 has gotten a complete redesign and rebalance in the space of development thus far EXCEPT FISHER.

Maybe fisher has a lot to rebalance. But the game wouldn't dare to launch if Monk wasn't finished. Monk, the class which all monks claim is the least important and interesting of the DoWs, the one that SE always neglect, the one they never think about when designing endgame dungeons, that one. If Monk wasn't ready for phase 3, nobody would find it acceptable.

All this communicates is precisely that fishers are literally the very bottom of the barrel, no pun intended. Square Enix cares about everything else related to FFXIV MORE than it cares about getting fisher properly finished, and it doesn't even care to assuage the people affected.

As Llen has said, fine. You care about us the least. Fine, that much is perfectly clear. Could you at least bother sending a representative to tell us something? Other than "hah, no, we can't even spare a second to read or address your concerns, nobody cares?"

Ridiculous.

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They HAVE answered the question about fishing in two different live letters. Not to any great extent, but they've still talked about it. There's plenty of things still shrouded in mystery, such as the new classes and the limit break system. We just need to be patient about this. Making demands out of the developers/community team isn't the way to go about it. They'll show it to us when they feel it's ready to be shown.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

They HAVE answered the question about fishing in two different live letters. Not to any great extent, but they've still talked about it.

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Hmm.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

A: I believe it'll be much easier to understand when you actually play.

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Yup. Still waiting. Thanks for the clarification I guess...

Other than "The weather will have some sort of effect" and "there will be different rods and lures," we really know nothing at all. Everything else is vague words thrown around meant to change the subject.

More waiting to test out my beloved fishing :( oh well maybe i will be shock hopefully in a good way