Quick Poll on Microphones

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Originally Posted by fusional

well, yeah. it seems like female elezen are often actually females, and so are female lalafells. female hyur are sometimes actually females, and miqotes are almost always guys

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...and then there's Janice. the rudest, most obscene female lala (with a deep voice) LOL. He better come back for 2.0

voip still doesnt prove nothing to me about gender! Quite frankly I don't even care, as long as you aren't completely terrible or annoying you can play with me :D

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Originally Posted by Technyze

voip still doesnt prove nothing to me about gender! Quite frankly I don't even care, as long as you aren't completely terrible or annoying you can play with me :D

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Oh, there has been some voices I have logged out of Vent, Teampseak, etc. for because I could not stand their voice. Their constant whining or complaining! Which you get so much more of in voicechat!

Gender I could care less too! Except when my wife wants to know who that female voice is I am talking to! lol But that's my personal problem ;)

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

Oh, there has been some voices I have logged out of Vent, Teampseak, etc. for because I could not stand their voice. Their constant whining or complaining! Which you get so much more of in voicechat!

Gender I could care less too! Except when my wife wants to know who that female voice is I am talking to! lol But that's my personal problem ;)

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Occupational hazard of the MMO player. lol

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

Oh, there has been some voices I have logged out of Vent, Teampseak, etc. for because I could not stand their voice. Their constant whining or complaining! Which you get so much more of in voicechat!

Gender I could care less too! Except when my wife wants to know who that female voice is I am talking to! lol But that's my personal problem ;)

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Nothing wrong with an online mistress, theres no physical contact. /discuss.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

For the rare thing where timing is critical, you can't beat voice chat. If 7 out of 8 players are on voice chat, nobody ever wants to give instructions twice, so the 8th player gets the shaft. Beyond that, voice chat is great for socializing and joking around so that you can keep control of your character while doing so.

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Ah, it seems you are the only one person who knows what to say. Yes, it happened to me several times in endgame linkshells. I DID let them know that I am before I joined them and well I can't stop but they all used a mumble program and I got the shaft... I had to follow where they were going and even if the party needed to be separated during in any dungeon so I'd to see a whm goes with which a said separated group (I hate Xbox Live.) Guess what? I quit linkshells like that again and again and wasn't able to find any endgame linkshell that doesn't require a forced voice chat. That's why I am praying that ARR will change that. lol :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Phe

o.o

wow. just wow.

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It's fun to troll serious people.

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

Oh, there has been some voices I have logged out of Vent, Teampseak, etc. for because I could not stand their voice. Their constant whining or complaining! Which you get so much more of in voicechat!

Gender I could care less too! Except when my wife wants to know who that female voice is I am talking to! lol But that's my personal problem ;)

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http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...0/496/asdf.jpg?

jk please dont discuss that.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...0/496/asdf.jpg?

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lol OMG you found her! At least that's how I imagine ppl that play games that are annoying ;)

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Originally Posted by Technyze

jk please dont discuss that.

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Too late!

You done done it now!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3TbUHYVYAy...dd2f970cpi.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zehira

It's fun to troll serious people.

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http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/...psd163c1af.gif

Almalexia isn't a troll. they want to have an honest, serious and constructive discussion.

and maybe you'd have a different perspective on trolling if you spent less time in the forums and more time actually playing the games you post in the forums about? ;)

I've played xi for 5 years and have used Mumble a few times. In XIV, most of the linkshells I was in used either Mumble or Ventrilo and Ia've gotten quite used to voice chat. Although I can be quiet and choose not to get on, I always get talked into putting my headset on lol.

"Oh wow, that microphone thread really took off! I'd better go check it out..."

http://i.imgur.com/u4rGa.jpg

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Too late!

You done done it now!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3TbUHYVYAy...dd2f970cpi.jpg

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I almost vomited in my mouth after seeing this pic. THANKS SKYE.

<3

I love voice chat in games because I'm entertained hearing all kinds of chatter, even though I'm not very talkative myself.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Too late!

You done done it now!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3TbUHYVYAy...dd2f970cpi.jpg

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Ruined my taco bell. Ruined.

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Originally Posted by Technyze

Ruined my taco bell. Ruined.

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but... it's taco bell. it already isn't even food. >.>

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Originally Posted by fusional

but... it's taco bell. it already isn't even food. >.>

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It's delicious non-food!...kinda. I just like their jalapeno sauce D:

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Originally Posted by Technyze

Ruined my taco bell. Ruined.

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Is it because Taco Bell meat looks like the dirt in the can? Yeaah, thats why I do't eat there! ;)

Our community doesn't like to live in the stone-age so it's mandatory! :o

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Originally Posted by fusional

i never committed that fallacy. i never said people weren't true/real/raiders if they didn't use voice chat. i said, in the context of modern mmos, if you don't use voice chat it's impossible to be *serious* about raiding. if you want to split hairs over my definition of 'serious', that's perfectly valid and we can do that. but don't misrepresent my position.

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It is implied. I consider myself "serious" about raiding, and you assert that it is impossible to be "serious" about raiding without voice chat. Therefore, if I identify as a serious raider, you would hold me to (and already have held me to) an unclear objective rule about being a serious raider; that is, not a truly serious raider, which you claim to be.

But I'll come back to "serious."

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Originally Posted by fusional

how was it contradictory? do you really think our groups are the same, sharing the same experiences? you don't think there's a difference between coordinating a group aiming for world first kills and a group coming along and doing the content weeks or months later, after the strategies have already been totally ironed out, and videos have been posted everywhere for reference?

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Let me address this by first introducing a quote from earlier. Bear with me:

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Originally Posted by fusional

the very embodiment of what i've said dominates this forum- the player who doesn't care about the game's ACTUAL success, but rather only only 'success' in the context of their own personal preferences.

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I prefer MNK over DRG.
I prefer text over chat.
I prefer coffee over tea.

If I head into Rivenroad as MNK and walk out with a pair of White Ravens and a hot cup of coffee, the event was an actual success. So was every relic, every DL and so on. The game gave me a set of objectives and I completed those objectives how I saw fit. My team carried out a play and scored a touchdown, if you don't mind me using your football analogy.

But the game, the ultimate objective standard, doesn't care about preferences. The game only cares about its objectives and its rules. Whether you, I and our respective teams complete the objectives within the confines of the game's rule set is the only thing that objectively matters. There would be no game without this.

The disconnect comes from BG's elitism--and yes, that's the first time the e-word has ever been used correctly on this board. You all are not satisfied with completing the game's objectives as written and instead invent your own. You push to the limit. You challenge yourselves more than is expected of you. I admire that. However, no matter how you choose to contextualize it, that's your preference. That's your brand of serious. You could erect a goal post on a crumbling glacier and kick a 43 yard field goal, but--impressive as it may be--it will still be worth the same number of points as on a standard football field. The game has its rules.

So when you say I'm not as "serious" for completing the same challenge under the same conditions, with the same available tools, the same number of people, the same knowledge of game mechanics and the same software with all its limitations, I can't help but wonder what you mean. But now I see.

My standard for success is in line with the game's proposed standard. Yours is the BG Standard: not merely exceptional, but elite. And that's just fine! The problem (yea, the bad elitism) is when you conflate the game's standard with the BG Standard and impose your arbitrary expectation on everyone else, calling them less-than-serious if they can't meet it.

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Originally Posted by fusional

implying our experiences are the same based simply on the fact that we both beat it does disservice to the entire basis for comparison, as the comparison needs to be made on an equal basis *or* context must be provided to allow for an inequality (ie: the fact that we do it without any videos or guides, and try to do it as fast as possible after patch goes live. very few other LSs experience this and as a result they largely experience content differently than we do. this is especially noteworthy in the context of voice chat and other elements which improve performance)

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I can't deny you'll have a fundamentally different experience with content as a trailblazer than as someone who follows later. In that regard, no, I don't believe our groups were the same or that we had the same exact experience. I believe we participated under the same conditions issued by the same game. More importantly, we were serious about it--something you claim is impossible without voice chat. This contradicts my experience. I recall being serious about Darnus, and now some guy on the internet is telling me I'm wrong in that.

Turns out this "serious" of yours is pretty subjective. If you were serious about killing Darnus in 8 minutes, you could do so. If you were serious about getting a pair of White Ravens before the end of the world, you could also do that. You could use voice chat or you could use text, or smoke signals, or a mixture of these. You could do whatever you prefer and they would all be serious efforts. You can appropriate seriousness however you like. The only question from an objective position is whether you can defeat Darnus in the game's prescribed time of 30 minutes.

In the end, an "actual success" fulfills whatever conditions the game asks of you. Preference is laid on top of that, whether you go DRG instead of MNK, win in 8 minutes instead of 29, or chat in voice instead of text. The game only dares you to win.

Shit. This has gone way beyond voice chat, hasn't it?

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Originally Posted by fusional

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/...psd163c1af.gif

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Aww... That dog does look like my dog... She doesn't like to play that much anymore and I guess she's old now... <3 Golden Retriever, thanks so I am not lonely. :D

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Originally Posted by fusional

Almalexia isn't a troll. they want to have an honest, serious and constructive discussion.

and maybe you'd have a different perspective on trolling if you spent less time in the forums and more time actually playing the games you post in the forums about? ;)

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Ohh... I came home from dentist and cleaned the dishes then read this forum. I know my trolling isn't same as what others can do here. It's like how SE trolled me once and I trolled them back twice with my silly signature because obviously I am special and SE knew that so they made some special features for me. But whatever, the point is... I know Almalexis isn't a troll, you are just overreacting.

fusional: If you don't want voice chat then you should go play other MMOs, ARR isn't for you.

Zehira: If you don't want text chat then you should go play other MMOs, ARR isn't for you.

I know my argument is invalid because I am different. Everyone's different and you know I am H... *got slapped by mods* ...I know I know I won't say it again. lol :p

On a serious note... I mean come on, I need you to talk to me with your fingers and not your lips because I don't speak English... Now, not sure if serious or just trolling. lol :rolleyes:

Since Valve is supporting deaf gamers, if you have played Portal 2 online then you would know that you do not need a keyboard or headset to play at all. :D

All I can say is... NO to In-game Voice Chat, third party programs are fine. period.

Eh personally I prefer to talk via text, but I will begrudgingly turn my Mic on when I feel it's actually productive.

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

Is it because Taco Bell meat looks like the dirt in the can? Yeaah, thats why I do't eat there! ;)

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Guess you don't eat sausages or hot dogs either?

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

It is implied.

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that can be argued to death in itself

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

I consider myself "serious" about raiding, and you assert that it is impossible to be "serious" about raiding without voice chat. Therefore, if I identify as a serious raider, you would hold me to (and already have held me to) an unclear objective rule about being a serious raider; that is, not a truly serious raider, which you claim to be.

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here it gets even more murky. i never actually made that claim- however *now* you could argue that it's implied and be mostly correct. (but then we also have to qualify under which context/s i am or have been a 'serious raider' since i used "modern MMOs" as my reference rather than FFXIV specifically)

in this case, you're equivocating "true" and "serious"- but they're not the same. "true" is an X/O qualifier. something is true or it isn't. the fallacy comes in saying a person who is a scotsman isn't a scotsman when they in fact are, no matter how you attempt to qualify it.

however, a true scotsman doesn't necessarily have to be a serious scotsman. see the difference? i can be american without taking it seriously. the seriousness with which i take something has nothing to do with what i am (or what i'm not).

trying to split hairs over how "true" someone is or isn't in relation to something isn't the same as splitting hairs over how *serious* they are about it. and that said- i would've been fine in questioning *how* serious a person could be about ________ in relation to ______, but i've admitted it was wrong to say it is "impossible to be serious" without allowing for any gradient in between.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

My team carried out a play and scored a touchdown, if you don't mind me using your football analogy.

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which is fine, but some people aren't happy with just a touchdown. they want to score first, and they want to win in the end. while the game rules don't care about preferences, it does allow for a winner and a loser- and in relation to that, people will always keep statistics on who scores first most often, who racks up the highest scores, who wins the most games, etc.

that said- there are different forms of winning. finishing content at all is the most basic form of winning. however, finishing it first and/or fastest (etc.) is also a form of winning, as evidenced by the development team making reference of it via twitter and the forums on numerous occasions. (doing the most DPS is also a commonly pursued form of winning)

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

But the game, the ultimate objective standard, doesn't care about preferences.

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the game doesn't, but the devs seem to. not only have they posted about it, but they've spoken of possibly adding achievements for it in 2.0 and almost definitely having timed leader boards. this goes beyond the scope of simple "win or don't win"

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

The disconnect comes from BG's elitism--and yes, that's the first time the e-word has ever been used correctly on this board.

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i would say it's the second time, but your point stands ;)

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

You all are not satisfied with completing the game's objectives as written and instead invent your own. You push to the limit. You challenge yourselves more than is expected of you. I admire that. However, no matter how you choose to contextualize it, that's your preference.

My standard for success is in line with the game's proposed standard. Yours is the BG Standard: not merely exceptional, but elite. And that's just fine! The problem (yea, the bad elitism) is when you conflate the game's standard with the BG Standard and impose your arbitrary expectation on everyone else, calling them less-than-serious if they can't meet it.

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what about in situations where game objectives show up after we've set them for ourselves? ie: we ran 17 minute AVs before it was a necessary requirement for relic. you could certainly argue it was simply our preference at first (shared with numerous JP LSs and a couple other NA LSs at the time), but what happens when devs learn about this then add new challenges based upon this?

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

More importantly, we were serious about it--something you claim is impossible without voice chat. This contradicts my experience. I recall being serious about Darnus, and now some guy on the internet is telling me I'm wrong in that.

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but again- i never specifically referenced FFXIV, so i didn't actually tell you anything of the sort. while, granted, saying "modern MMOs" is a generality that leaves room for quite a lot of ambiguity, if i were pressed to qualify my statement i could very easily use endgame from several other well-known MMOs where difficult endgame content *is in actuality* all but nearly impossible without voice chat coordination (and sometimes even certain information-gathering add ons)

however, in spite of very frequently using ifrit extreme and darnus hard as examples of actually challenging content in XIV, i was careful not to use XIV or either of those as an example in reference to 'serious raiding'/voice chat. that was intentional.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Turns out this "serious" of yours is pretty subjective.

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as i've acknowledged. but the more raiding communities you talk to outside of XIV, the more you start to see how common that same idea of "serious" is among them. this is an important distinction, and again, a major reason why i referenced modern MMOs in general

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

If you were serious about killing Darnus in 8 minutes, you could do so.

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while i get your point, it's actually not as simple as wanting to do it in ~8 minutes (or less) or not. once you get under the 10 minute mark, no matter how insane your DPS is there are luck factors in the fight which can prevent you from scoring a faster time no matter how perfect your performance is. going purely by numbers, we could have done it in 7:00-7:30, but that would assume *zero* teleports on top of perfect performances from each of 5 dragoons. 100% perfect luck, zero errors.

and even when the performance aspect was nearly as perfect as it was going to get, luck destroys your chance of a good time when he teleports around like a goon for 3 minutes, or when we dps so fast (with just 4 dragoons, mind you) we actually break the mechanics of the fight and he hangs around an extra few minutes at 0.1% health, invulnerable, refusing to transition into the next phase.

but anyway, i digress!

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Shit. This has gone way beyond voice chat, hasn't it?

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yeah, and i can see how you'd link my comments on the difference in how people experience the same game/content to the subjectivity of the word "serious"

but like i've said quite a lot by now, my definition of serious (and/or the degrees of seriousness or lack thereof) could absolutely be debated and isn't at all an objective thing. i generalized incorrectly and acknowledge being wrong in doing so.

i only take issue with being accused of resorting to the 'no true scotsman' fallacy when i never said you weren't a true (end)gamer. the implication was simply that, in the context of modern MMOs- by opting out of voice chat you weren't *serious*- which ties back in with the paragraph just above this one.

I like Taco Bell, personally.

Especially their Doritos Tacos! Oh god, I could use one right NAO!!!!

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

I like Taco Bell, personally.

Especially their Doritos Tacos! Oh god, I could use one right NAO!!!!

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Thats what I got! And a Chapula with steak and nacho cheese.

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Originally Posted by Technyze

Thats what I got! And a Chapula with steak and nacho cheese.

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Chalupa.

Taco Bell and its fake Mexican makes my brain hurt >.>

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Chalupa.

Taco Bell and its fake Mexican makes my brain hurt >.>

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Mine too, because it messes up my blood pressure. lol

But the taste is so good! I can't help it!

Butchered that spelling!

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Originally Posted by Zehira

fusional: If you don't want voice chat then you should go play other MMOs, ARR isn't for you.

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now who's overreacting? i said no such thing. didn't even imply as much.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

On a serious note... I mean come on, I need you to talk to me with your fingers and not your lips because I don't speak English... Now, not sure if serious or just trolling. lol :rolleyes:

Since Valve is supporting deaf gamers, if you have played Portal 2 online then you would know that you do not need a keyboard or headset to play at all. :D

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but i didn't say you couldn't play FFXIV or participate in endgame at all. what i said was without voice chat, in the context of modern MMOs, it's "impossible to be serious"-

as that's being debated exhaustively in itself, allow me to just simply state that it was an inaccurate generalization to make, and if i were able to say it over again i'd revise the statement to "it's difficult to be *as* serious" (again, in the context of modern MMOs)

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Originally Posted by Zehira

All I can say is... NO to In-game Voice Chat, third party programs are fine. period.

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and in this, we agree

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Originally Posted by fusional

and in this, we agree

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That's good. I am very against any thread about in-game voice chat at all, I just hope that endgame doesn't force me to have a headset or just listen them. Sure, it does make a hard way for me to find any endgame linkshell that doesn't require voice chat. :)

WoW tried the in-game voice chat thing and while the expectation and fear was that it would make it impossible to get anywhere without using it, in practice it was so poorly implemented *almost nobody* used it. you'd have like one guy in the group talking to himself on WoW's VC and wondering what the hell was going on when nobody ever listened or responded

abp had something like that too, in game voice and you can hear what other people are listening to in there cars and stuff(car music was cool) but the voice chat was bad and pointless. i'd find some dude with his mic on eating chips or some shit lol, not worth using at all. the eq3 in game chat with face recognition has me worried that the game is going to suck balls. i never played any eq but was told it might be something i'd like since i want something like ffxi again. but i doubt eq3 is going for that, we will see i guess later. but stuff like this very unnecessary.

i can't stand using voice chat in an MMO like FFXI , FFXIV , WoW or any of them really. It's ok for FPS and such like Planetside, but breaks the atmosphere of most RPGs. Honestly, I get drunk and annoying on voice chat , I don't wanna hear anyone like me lol :D

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

It's funny because the first time I heard Molly I was like...WAIT YOU'RE NOT A CAT AND YOU'RE NOT A FEMALE

The it was like..."WAIT VIL YOU'RE NOT A DOOD WTF!!" Then there's the lalafell players with really deep voices.

Those kinds of reactions are always fun.

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I never really have those kinda reactions... Wait... You are not a guy? You are so mean I assumed you were a guy. *mindblown*

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

I never really have those kinda reactions... Wait... You are not a guy? You are so mean I assumed you were a guy. *mindblown*

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Pwned!!

...now I wanna talk to you on v-chat somewhere o.O; lulz

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Pwned!!

...now I wanna talk to you on v-chat somewhere o.O; lulz

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Then make it happen!

Got skype? >_> or...chat works too

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Got skype? >_> or...chat works too

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Yes I have skype I added you from that interview thread but you ignored me D:

I also have mumble, TS and Vent.