Chaotic Alliance Raid is a fun fight, but awful content

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

As a former savage raider who is now a parent, I am capable of doing the content, the problem is the time needed to learn the content. I can't afford the time it takes to stand up a PF group, learn the mechanics and then try to farm. I have at best, 1 hour of focus time to try to prog content. This is why I want more midcore content besides the casual content as we have a dearth of Savage content and hardly any other type of content.

I'm afraid that the triangle adventure zone they keep saying is comming may turn into another mixed bag where some of the content can be done by casuals to midcore but a savage component will eventually rear its head in there and block those players from progressing.

I'm starting to feel like I'm living the cliche, constantly being told that help is coming, just wait, hang on, its on the way... but by the time it arrives... its too late.


For those who wonder, here is how I gauge my content based upon time to learn:
* Casual - Up to a maximum of 10 minutes to learn the content / encounter with options to make it even easier if needed.
* Midcore - Up to a maximum of 60 minutes to learn an encounter. - (Extremes)
* Hardcore - Up to several lockouts to learn an encounter. - (Savage)
* Elite - Up to several days to weeks to learn an encounter. - (Ultimate)
* Heros - Playing FFXIV 1.0.0. - (Nightmare)

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Typically that is how the exploration content works. Bozja has a DRS encounter, for example. Even the "casual" content will include yet more Savage tier things.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

This is why I want more midcore content besides the casual content as we have a dearth of Savage content and hardly any other type of content.

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a dearth means there's a shortage/scarce supply btw

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

a dearth means there's a shortage/scarce supply btw

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Thank you, I have replaced it with "large amount".

English... gota love it...

Another day, another like 11-12hrs of doing chaotic.

I'd like to add the rewards are so bad compared to the time investment, the happy hour/DC bonus is apparently really shit. Why make it like that? Why not an entire day?
2 Coffers for 8 people? Really? 'savage'? Mount isn't guaranteed, minion isn't guaranteed, hair isn't guaranteed. I wanted to win the hair but even reclears feel really miserable....

I'm so tired of this. I never went at content for this many hours and I feel like if I don't do it now I won't be able to get what I want....awful reward design...

I don't even know when it can be unsynable considering there's towers and other shit to mess you up...

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Another day, another like 11-12hrs of doing chaotic.

I'd like to add the rewards are so bad compared to the time investment, the happy hour/DC bonus is apparently really shit. Why make it like that? Why not an entire day?
2 Coffers for 8 people? Really? 'savage'? Mount isn't guaranteed, minion isn't guaranteed, hair isn't guaranteed. I wanted to win the hair but even reclears feel really miserable....

I'm so tired of this. I never went at content for this many hours and I feel like if I don't do it now I won't be able to get what I want....awful reward design...

I don't even know when it can be unsynable considering there's towers and other shit to mess you up...

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Genuinely haven't considered the rng of there being no guaranteed loot in addition to the actual clearing of the raid... yikes.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Genuinely haven't considered the rng of there being no guaranteed loot in addition to the actual clearing of the raid... yikes.

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Yeah the coffers are RNG too. You could be hoping for chest piece and it might not even drop chest on that run. Good luck getting 24 people to consistently farm. I was in a group that did 5 kills, took 5 min break 2-3 people left, and back to wipe city.

I was wiping for hours today....I haven't seen a single clear till 6hrs in. I think if I put this much effort and time into savage I would've cleared it already. A friend is joking with me how I'm hardcore now with how much time commitment I gave this. I can't imagine someone with limited time, like 2hrs a day trying to prog/clear this fight. No way.

I've no life'd it since it came out. I barely slept cause I dream of this shitty thing...The materia I is so painful to get holy, even for glam....like I got 10+ clears and I didn't win a single coffer....I was losing 93 and 95 rolls..Really unlucky.

if you want the shroud you need 50 clears for 99 materia 1 and this is excluding the armor if you need it or want it for glam....124 materia 2 to buy the hair and dais...

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Yeah the coffers are RNG too. You could be hoping for chest piece and it might not even drop chest on that run. Good luck getting 24 people to consistently farm. I was in a group that did 5 kills, took 5 min break 2-3 people left, and back to wipe city.

I was wiping for hours today....I haven't seen a single clear till 6hrs in. I think if I put this much effort and time into savage I would've cleared it already. A friend is joking with me how I'm hardcore now with how much time commitment I gave this. I can't imagine someone with limited time, like 2hrs a day trying to prog/clear this fight. No way.

I've no life'd it since it came out. I barely slept cause I dream of this shitty thing...The materia I is so painful to get holy, even for glam....like I got 10+ clears and I didn't win a single coffer....I was losing 93 and 95 rolls..Really unlucky.

if you want the shroud you need 50 clears for 99 materia 1 and this is excluding the armor if you need it or want it for glam....124 materia 2 to buy the hair and dais...

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I'm more inclined to agree with people on other threads, now. Either attempt to farm it while it can be "farmed" or get the hairstyle/a mount off the marketboard while it's "cheap" because it feels like in a few months down the line this'll be more dead than the criterion content. Personally don't see 24 person statics being a thing due to she sheer organizing of getting 24 people free at once for multiple hours multiple times to clear this thing.

I thought it could be a good idea. Haven't had time to get into it with the Holidays, but watching other people do it? It's absolutely not what I was expecting. I PF'd my way through this savage tier, and became extremely burnt out from the constant wiping from other people who had supposedly cleared SEVERAL TIMES (some dozens of more times then me) screwing up on simple 8 person mechs. Why would I want to subject myself to something where there are now TWENTY FOUR people where one person messing up can force us to have to start over? I don't care if some gear is 'BiS' right now. I'm not dealing with that. It wasn't what I at least was asking for with harder Alliance Raids. I just wanted something closer to Neir again instead of the snooze fest that was Myths of the Realm.

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Originally Posted by Fuyuqi

Chaotic Alliance Raid feels like a complete misunderstanding of why people wanted it to begin with and I feel like it fails to deliver on the idea of a "harder alliance raid" and is unsatisfying as a piece of content for multiple reasons. The main reasons being the actual fight design, and the reward design.

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This 100% is going to only be popular as long as people need the mount or hair and dont want to pay the market prices. I can see this dying out in a month, on gilgamesh its already only 2-3 max PFs running it.

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Originally Posted by mangelinabrolee

This 100% is going to only be popular as long as people need the mount or hair and dont want to pay the market prices. I can see this dying out in a month, on gilgamesh its already only 2-3 max PFs running it.

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It'll be popular for as long as raiders can stomach going through PF with it. A group of 24 people who don't raid are going to struggle hard.

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Another day, another like 11-12hrs of doing chaotic.

I'd like to add the rewards are so bad compared to the time investment, the happy hour/DC bonus is apparently really shit. Why make it like that? Why not an entire day?
2 Coffers for 8 people? Really? 'savage'? Mount isn't guaranteed, minion isn't guaranteed, hair isn't guaranteed. I wanted to win the hair but even reclears feel really miserable....

I'm so tired of this. I never went at content for this many hours and I feel like if I don't do it now I won't be able to get what I want....awful reward design...

I don't even know when it can be unsynable considering there's towers and other shit to mess you up...

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I am honestly extremely close to just giving up on this fight.
Since days now it’s wiping to second towers or looming because someone messes up somewhere.
The groups I have been into are also starting to get more and more annoyed by it all.

You can do everything perfectly, stand in your spots and so on and then you have one person who can snowball everything because they killed a tank before swap or a healer dies or I am standing for a pair position and see my partner just attacking the boss somewhere else.

Maybe I try a few more times but I am getting tired of waiting for new groups to fill because people leave after two wipes.
After that I might say screw it I don’t care anymore.

I hope the devs are happy with what they did here. This is the biggest PF bullshit in the game imo. Far too punishing.

I had a way better time progging savage in PF even things like P3S.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

I am honestly extremely close to just giving up on this fight.
Since days now it’s wiping to second towers or looming because someone messes up somewhere.
The groups I have been into are also starting to get more and more annoyed by it all.

You can do everything perfectly, stand in your spots and so on and then you have one person who can snowball everything because they killed a tank before swap or a healer dies or I am standing for a pair position and see my partner just attacking the boss somewhere else.

Maybe I try a few more times but I am getting tired of waiting for new groups to fill because people leave after two wipes.
After that I might say screw it I don’t care anymore.

I hope the devs are happy with what they did here. This is the biggest PF bullshit in the game imo. Far too punishing.

I had a way better time progging savage in PF even things like P3S.

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I'm in the same boat. Brambles and beyond prog is really p1 clean-up and so on and so forth. xD
The fight itself is really fun to do and I like it a lot. But putting bodychecks like that into a 24man savage trial that is supposed to be done primarily via PF and the likes... that's borderline nonsensical.

I think I'll be fine with just keeping 260-ish tenacity instead of the determination on the Chaotic chestpiece. Don't care about the hairstyle and the mounts would be nice to have but eeh. Not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Amvin

I'm in the same boat. Brambles and beyond prog is really p1 clean-up and so on and so forth. xD
The fight itself is really fun to do and I like it a lot. But putting bodychecks like that into a 24man savage trial that is supposed to be done primarily via PF and the likes... that's borderline nonsensical.

I think I'll be fine with just keeping 260-ish tenacity instead of the determination on the Chaotic chestpiece. Don't care about the hairstyle and the mounts would be nice to have but eeh. Not worth it.

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i argee with you, amazing fight... but 1 person out of 24 can wipe on nearly every mech... is testing my sanity, i've decided to actually stop, at this stage i'd need multiple runs to just get the hairstyle
and i don't have the patience anymore to do this... i cleared m1 m2 m3 and m4 faster than i cleared cloud of darkness now lmao

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

The main problem with the fight is the difficulty. How the dev teams doesn't understand something as simple as "content that's harder than a normal alliance raid but easier than extreme" is unbelievable.

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I'm sure they understand that would be such a small difference from normal it would be a waste of time to create.

The fight is cool, coordinating 24 players is not. :(

This content is just another proof that Square tests nothing before pushing it to the public.. and for sure, they again launched something that just a minority of the community is able to play correctly.

> Sells a game as a casual safe haven, deliver a high-end nonsense... again.

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Originally Posted by TmzOS

The fight is cool, coordinating 24 players is not. :(

This content is just another proof that Square tests nothing before pushing it to the public.. and for sure, they again launched something that just a minority of the community is able to play correctly.

> Sells a game as a casual safe haven, deliver a high-end nonsense... again.

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Even the "casual" content coming in the exploration zone will likely have a high end raid somewhere in there, shocker!

Bad take, I think this fight and content is 10/10, the only complaint is it should have come out either on 7.1 or a week after (ie just before ultimate).

The difficulty is good, the first part is extreme difficulty then the second part turns into a first turn savage (quite literally E9S) then back to the first part again.

The rewards are exactly what i wanted them to be from a 24 man savage. I think they should now fix Criterion rewards so they give BIS ilvl accessories (in a similar fashion to proto-ultima back in the day) as well as Twine, Oils, Shines and the item to buy the tome weapon. I just love the concept of having multiple bis ilvl sources instead of just the same old boring AUG tome and Savage.

So for me please bring more Chaotics on, one per raid tier would be ideal as well as a criterion per raid tier.

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Originally Posted by Amvin

The fight itself is really fun to do and I like it a lot. But putting bodychecks like that into a 24man savage trial that is supposed to be done primarily via PF and the likes... that's borderline nonsensical.

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That’s my only real problem with it too. It really is a fun fight! The mechanics are challenging yet learnable with enough practice. But every person in a randomly put together 24-man group having the potential to wipe the raid is awful. It makes it harder to progress, because some people don’t have the patience to keep going after a couple wipes, leading you to have to find yet another group at your prog point and hope they will stick it out long enough that you can get enough practice to move along. It can be very demoralizing for someone who’s trying their best to improve, but still makes a few mistakes here and there.

I'm one of the ones who asked for harder alliance raids. However, when I asked for a harder alliance raid, I meant more like pre-nerf Ivalice raid levels of difficult, where you have to actually use some brain-cells and cannot just face-tank everything and not care, or if they didn't want to do that then to give the old alliance raids the Unreal treatment to let players experience them like they were near their launch days at minimum item level.

Not whatever the fuck they actually gave players with this content.

What they released is just a 24-man savage trial, but they crossed out the savage trial part and wrote in "chaotic alliance raid" in crayon underneath it. They didn't even keep the normal alliance raid set-up of 1 Tank, 5 DPS, and 2 healers and changed it to 2/4/2 like the trial fights just to make this "new" content function more "properly".

Sure it definitely lives up to "chaotic" with watching 24 people run around all over the place resolving mechanics, but when there are so many things that have the ol savage/ultimate touch of "if one person fucks up a specific mechanic or is already dead when a specific mechanic rolls around, it's back to the start with all of you", along with everyone having different learning speeds when it comes to taking in the fight information, then things turn from chaotic to annoying fairly quickly, especially if it's one of those cases where it's the same person/people constantly messing up the same mechanic(s) and is wiping the raid again and again and again and again. A lot of players are just not going to deal with holding the hands/dealing with the incompetence of a few players for potentially several HOURS, especially if the rewards/bonuses for doing so are just not worth it.

I haven't touched the fight myself [Opinion immediately invalidated I am sure], but I get the feeling "A 24-man savage trial showcasing only the final boss of that entire alliance series" was not what most players were expecting when they asked for "harder alliance raids." Maybe it'll get better in time, maybe not. I am not expecting a whole lot from this new content now that we all pretty much know how "Chaotic alliance raids" will work going forward.

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Originally Posted by ZXN

I'm one of the ones who asked for harder alliance raids. However, when I asked for a harder alliance raid, I meant more like pre-nerf Ivalice raid levels of difficult, where you have to actually use some brain-cells and cannot just face-tank everything and not care, or if they didn't want to do that then to give the old alliance raids the Unreal treatment to let players experience them like they were near their launch days at minimum item level.

Not whatever the fuck they actually gave players with this content.

What they released is just a 24-man savage trial, but they crossed out the savage trial part and wrote in "chaotic alliance raid" in crayon underneath it. They didn't even keep the normal alliance raid set-up of 1 Tank, 5 DPS, and 2 healers and changed it to 2/4/2 like the trial fights just to make this "new" content function more "properly".

Sure it definitely lives up to "chaotic" with watching 24 people run around all over the place resolving mechanics, but when there are so many things that have the ol savage/ultimate touch of "if one person fucks up a specific mechanic or is already dead when a specific mechanic rolls around, it's back to the start with all of you", along with everyone having different learning speeds when it comes to taking in the fight information, then things turn from chaotic to annoying fairly quickly, especially if it's one of those cases where it's the same person/people constantly messing up the same mechanic(s) and is wiping the raid again and again and again and again. A lot of players are just not going to deal with holding the hands/dealing with the incompetence of a few players for potentially several HOURS, especially if the rewards/bonuses for doing so are just not worth it.

I haven't touched the fight myself [Opinion immediately invalidated I am sure], but I get the feeling "A 24-man savage trial showcasing only the final boss of that entire alliance series" was not what most players were expecting when they asked for "harder alliance raids." Maybe it'll get better in time, maybe not. I am not expecting a whole lot from this new content now that we all pretty much know how "Chaotic alliance raids" will work going forward.

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i am safe to say.. the next alliance raids will have so much toxicity, ultimate will look like a fun time in PF

I just got my first clear, and I have to say the fact that I get less rewards the less new players there are in the team is absurd.

Tirelessely working 6 days progging in the party finder for what? 9 demimaterias? This is more effort than Day 1 proggers but less rewards than them. What other game, much less an MMO, does this? I don't think I've any reason to join a clear party unless I'm looking to prog again for a handful of material tokens.

Raid is fun, a little bit too much, but the reward structure is basically ridiculous.

I haven't clear it yet but I haven't have such fun in this game than chaotic.
I'm not very good at the game so I barely coudl do first tier savage,gave up P12S(it was too hard for me...) and love EXs but always thought the prog is too fast and quickly becomes a mindless grind for mount.
I understand the ppl not wanting bodychecks,not wanting to wipe over and over because of other but I rather spend hours and hours progging,wiping than get it done in few hours and repeat it 99times.

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Originally Posted by ViinaS

This is not about type of content. This is content difficulty.
People wanted more difficulty Alliance Raids apart from the normal 24-people-snoozefest-3-set per expansion.
What people didn't want was a 24-man Savage fight.

Also "this content is not for you" is very easy to say for High-end raiders as they have been given Savage, FRU and now Chaotic while the only casual content that was delivered so far is the coockie-cutter first-set-of-3 Aliance Raid.
As for Midcore content? The usual 1 EX fight in 7.1.
Woooow.

Face it already, DT has a massive issue with content, especially with how stretched full of nothing the patch cycles have become.

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if all the people unhappy with the game unsubbed you wouldn't be able to pop your instances. i had a peak tonight over on JP only to find the world occupied by average of 58 players 60% being bots at level 12. this was on every DC. asking people to leave a game they like instead of making the game better for them is like asking for the company to sink

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Originally Posted by Renaclock

I haven't clear it yet but I haven't have such fun in this game than chaotic.
I'm not very good at the game so I barely coudl do first tier savage,gave up P12S(it was too hard for me...) and love EXs but always thought the prog is too fast and quickly becomes a mindless grind for mount.
I understand the ppl not wanting bodychecks,not wanting to wipe over and over because of other but I rather spend hours and hours progging,wiping than get it done in few hours and repeat it 99times.

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that's ultimate raider mindset in 24 man mid-hardcore savagextreme

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

if all the people unhappy with the game unsubbed you wouldn't be able to pop your instances.

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What a sad state of society in the 21st century, when people think this state of being is somehow a good thing. All for a video game.

Memetrail
https://youtu.be/sTFbdkCtDZg?t=9m53s
...in need to leave
...I have to go too.
"My cat just destroyed our router" LMFAO
Where Esuna? ( XD )
Pissed myself oh my word

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

When the details were announced, I was immediately puzzled how a request for "harder alliance raids" had morphed into a "24-person savage trial."

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I can agree with that. I was kind of hoping for a savage difficulty version of the entire WoD raid. This version of Cloud of Darkness has basically nothing in common with the WoD version.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

When the details were announced, I was immediately puzzled how a request for "harder alliance raids" had morphed into a "24-person savage trial."

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It seems like the dev team (and the community itself) doesnt realize there can be different difficulties that aren't just super easy or super hard. Even extreme trials are a huge leap in difficulty compared to all normal content and its considered the midcore point for a lot of players even though I disagree personally but its undeniable how the leap in difficulty between normal and anything else is a bit too much.

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- COD does not "feel like" an alliance raid. Single arena boss, requiring every alliance to split up for half the fight, and disappointing alliance-based mechanics (mainly just stacks)

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This is literally my favorite part of the fight.

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- Designing a 24-man body check is kinda insane. Before I get told to "git gud", I already have 5 clears, some of which with not a single tower missed.

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I don't get why people keep calling towers a body check. You can survive 2 towers being miss as long as they aren't 1-person towers. I've always considered "body checks" as being mechanics that have a 0 chance of recovery and an instantaneous wipe. Best examples would be High Concept or basically any mechanic in P12S but there were tons of body checks in EW. It's not a body check if you can survive with less than the required amount.

In short. If you can recover then I don't consider it a body check.

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It's not hard to do, even in PF, but it certainly feels like just a 24-man savage with even more chances to be punished for a mistake that isn't yours...

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Probably not. but this is an issue an literally any content that isn't normal. If you're going to hold this same complaint for EX and the savage tier that's fine. But it's weird to only have this complaint for Chaotic as if it's somewhat unique to that fight, especially when there's a large margin of recovery.

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On top of this, designing a 24-man body check in a fight that can be accessed by ANYONE who has finished Dawntrail is insane...

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I agree 100% there needs to be some kind of requirement to enter this raid. There doesn't seem to be many options though that would be fair to everyone. Requiring the full clear of current savage tier is way too much considering M4S is still much harder than this even progging entirely in PF. The fight with an actual static is closer to M1S/M2S difficulty. The difference between no VC and VC is kinda wild on this one. Clearing the latest EX might be a more fairer choice but that also isn't super hard. Better than what we have currently though.

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Having to split up alliances is also frustrating in itself because trying to give people raid buffs on the opposite corner is just impossible...?

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I'm positive the raid buffs you apply only go to those in your party and not other parties. With current setups in (mostly Aurelia I think?) no one is missing buffs except a few people in alliance B. This is really a non-issue.

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Reward design:

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Yeah the rewards system in this game needs serious work. Still having a weekly lockout for savage at this point is nuts too.

I cleared a few days ago after about 134 pulls, and countless hours sitting idle in Party Finder. After getting two more clears, for a total of three, I am so exhausted with everything around doing the actual fight. On a mechanical level it is not hard, but simple math will tell you that the random error rate for a party of 24 is sky high.

Additionally, the PF tool is horrendous, the way it automatically closes, the way it locks in specific jobs instead of locking in roles when someone leaves. This content should have been held back for presets, it should have been held back for the raid strategy planner.

Every single thing outside of the fight is in itself a painful uphill battle. Setting out to design an extreme but recognizing that it's more like a second floor savage feels like a failure, and I feel like my time has been wasted when I spend 3-4 hours and come out with 0/99 materia totems after joining farm parties that cannot get a single clear.

If metrics are tallied and the chaotic raid is seen as incredible value for daily active users, leave me out of it. Because I hate its current status as a fundamental waste of time. We would all be better just rolling 24 dice and imagining a wipe.

the two tokens for armour and mount is kinda like extreme. ok thats alright.

but only getting one of the other tokens if you have no new players? seriously?
and then you need 49 for the hairstyle and 75 for the mount? thats way too much.
sure i can get it as drop. but the hairstyle is tradeable. anyone can roll on it everytime... yeah good luck getting that stuff in the future

Casuals trying harder content > hardcore players get annoyed at wipes > hardcore players blame casuals for not playing their job properly or not done savage before > casuals stop trying said new hard content > hardcore players complain there's not enough players for extra reward boost > casuals leave or wait til next new "hard" content comes out

Rinse and repeat.
The problem has been ultimately caused by SE due to them making all jobs braindead (healers especially), therefore casual players mostly YOLO the buttons, they don't care about 2 minute meta. There's no different difficulties in different jobs, they all play the same with just different flashy effects. Yoshi-P is creating a bigger and wider rift between players, feeding hardcore players more content while forgetting about the casual/midcore players.

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Originally Posted by Madris

I cleared a few days ago after about 134 pulls, and countless hours sitting idle in Party Finder. After getting two more clears, for a total of three, I am so exhausted with everything around doing the actual fight. On a mechanical level it is not hard, but simple math will tell you that the random error rate for a party of 24 is sky high.

Additionally, the PF tool is horrendous, the way it automatically closes, the way it locks in specific jobs instead of locking in roles when someone leaves. This content should have been held back for presets, it should have been held back for the raid strategy planner.

Every single thing outside of the fight is in itself a painful uphill battle. Setting out to design an extreme but recognizing that it's more like a second floor savage feels like a failure, and I feel like my time has been wasted when I spend 3-4 hours and come out with 0/99 materia totems after joining farm parties that cannot get a single clear.

If metrics are tallied and the chaotic raid is seen as incredible value for daily active users, leave me out of it. Because I hate its current status as a fundamental waste of time. We would all be better just rolling 24 dice and imagining a wipe.

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I have friends who have been trying every night since Christmas Eve, sometimes for hours a day, without a clear. They like the raid (or want to) and feel competent at the mechanics, but their PF groups always cascade into failure. I have been watching their attempts, but no reward this game can offer will make me want to join that.

they should make that 'help a new player' token/reward shared between a certain type of content. i think thats the only way to future proof it when only getting one of it per kill

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Originally Posted by Madris

I cleared a few days ago after about 134 pulls, and countless hours sitting idle in Party Finder. After getting two more clears, for a total of three, I am so exhausted with everything around doing the actual fight. On a mechanical level it is not hard, but simple math will tell you that the random error rate for a party of 24 is sky high.

Additionally, the PF tool is horrendous, the way it automatically closes, the way it locks in specific jobs instead of locking in roles when someone leaves. This content should have been held back for presets, it should have been held back for the raid strategy planner.

Every single thing outside of the fight is in itself a painful uphill battle. Setting out to design an extreme but recognizing that it's more like a second floor savage feels like a failure, and I feel like my time has been wasted when I spend 3-4 hours and come out with 0/99 materia totems after joining farm parties that cannot get a single clear.

If metrics are tallied and the chaotic raid is seen as incredible value for daily active users, leave me out of it. Because I hate its current status as a fundamental waste of time. We would all be better just rolling 24 dice and imagining a wipe.

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This is my exact issue with this content. I probably have a similar number of pulls and have seen enrage I believe at least 10 times now. I have yet to clear, the mechanics are super simple. However, 24 people leads to a multitude of wipes despite doing mechanics correctly on a personal level. The margin of error is way to high in PF and it's why I've decided personally I will not participate in this content, it's a colossal waste of time with no reward.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I assume they crammed all these rewards in there because they know they screwed up bad on Criterion in that department, but putting a hairstyle behind what sounds like essentially a savage fight really rubs me the wrong way. Casual-tier rewards and no barrier to entry and a first-timer bonus to encourage new people to do it, but then having a fight that casuals probably can't do? Seems like a recipe for the majority of players to be annoyed by this content.

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Yep, l though it would be like delebrum. Went in, wiped 2 hours,then l quit, lol. The hairstyle aren't that good anyway

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Casuals trying harder content > hardcore players get annoyed at wipes > hardcore players blame casuals for not playing their job properly or not done savage before > casuals stop trying said new hard content > hardcore players complain there's not enough players for extra reward boost > casuals leave or wait til next new "hard" content comes out

Rinse and repeat.
The problem has been ultimately caused by SE due to them making all jobs braindead (healers especially), therefore casual players mostly YOLO the buttons, they don't care about 2 minute meta. There's no different difficulties in different jobs, they all play the same with just different flashy effects. Yoshi-P is creating a bigger and wider rift between players, feeding hardcore players more content while forgetting about the casual/midcore players.

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You forgot how "2 minute meta" genuinely annoys others.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

You forgot how "2 minute meta" genuinely annoys others.

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It annoys everybody, and more often than not have I seen players complain about those filthy casuls not doing the 2 minute meta because of low damage on boss.

It's a fun fight that is fun to clear but horrible to farm

I think in a vacuum this fight is nice, and I think that's what they designed/made it for, a vacuum. Perhaps JP has god-tier PF experience but farming and progging this has been a pain...

At some point I think I wanted to be out of this hell because my loot goblin brain wanted everything and couldn't leave things half finished.

There's way too many variables in PF...I spent more time outside the fight than inside of it when I wanted to prog, waiting for PFs to fill only to trickle players out into disband feels painful too

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Originally Posted by ExiaKuromonji

The difference between no VC and VC is kinda wild on this one. Clearing the latest EX might be a more fairer choice but that also isn't super hard. Better than what we have currently though.

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In my runs without VC, I’ve been finding other players’ macros super helpful… even if it’s just a little reminder that Enaero was cast instead of Endeath (I know she has a text line, but it’s easier to see the spell name in my tiny chat box at a glance), or front/back vs. back/front for hands, or “Kill Atomos Now Please!” Just little reminders of things you might be missing while you’re worrying about doing the other mechs and/or getting rezzes out. I really appreciate those, and I should learn to make my own macros. lol