"Taking a stand" quest

I have tried very easy and easy, the limit break heals you for sod all, the amount of damage you get dealt is just too high for how little your abilities heal you.

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Originally Posted by Doozerpindan

I have tried very easy and easy, the limit break heals you for sod all, the amount of damage you get dealt is just too high for how little your abilities heal you.

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It definitely takes some persistence.

As said earlier in the thread, I found it challenging too - I always struggle with the "play as an NPC" scenarios; but I do maintain that I found the 'Easy' option more forgiving than 'Very Easy' for some reason.

Eitherway - hope you manage to complete it! :)

I finally did it, but I stand by what I said, there is nothing fun about smashing my head into a brick wall. I get some people find it fun, but I do not, and I never will.

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Originally Posted by Doozerpindan

I finally did it, but I stand by what I said, there is nothing fun about smashing my head into a brick wall. I get some people find it fun, but I do not, and I never will.

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No argument from me. I didn't enjoy it and was pleased to see the back of it. I've never enjoyed 'play as an NPC' scenarios.

Are you able to record and upload your gameplay? People might be able to give you tips if we can see what you're struggling with.

Can the Very Easy mode please be made very easier? It is preventing a friend from advancing the MSQ.

I have tired many times on this quest, and I keep losing energy. I wish the makers of this game will fix it and take it away,

Can somebody who keeps failing this quest please upload their gameplay footage???

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

Can somebody who keeps failing this quest please upload their gameplay footage???

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Who outside of raiders records their gameplay??

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Who outside of raiders records their gameplay??

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People who are struggling with something and are asked to record it so they can be helped.

There's tons of casual gameplay footage on Twitch and Youtube.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

There's tons of casual gameplay footage on Twitch and Youtube.

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I know and I have been watching them and I still run out of energy, I have tried it on easy and very easy and still no luck.

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Originally Posted by anje008

I know and I have been watching them and I still run out of energy, I have tried it on easy and very easy and still no luck.

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What are you struggling with. People cannot help you if all people say is “I just can’t do it”

What is the problem you are having? Can you not move out of AOE’s fast enough? Are you not using LB as often as possible to heal? Are you not soaking towers?

Like I’m really trying not to be rude but in 14 pages on this thread nobody will tell us why they can’t do this duty

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

There's tons of casual gameplay footage on Twitch and Youtube.

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And under each YT guide there are multiple comments from people noting they intensely dislike the "play as NPC" solo duties and/or reporting not being able to clear it.

I am moving out of AOE’s fast enough, I use the Lb button to heal whenever it comes up, I am clicking button 1 and others as well. the energy just goes down to fast. I have done solo ones before, and I like the NPCs

Maybe you can tell me the steps on doing this and I am not as young as you lot,

I was watching this one on youtube is this the right way he is doing it, because he died like 4 times so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbWGrELhE9o

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What are you struggling with. People cannot help you if all people say is “I just can’t do it”

What is the problem you are having? Can you not move out of AOE’s fast enough? Are you not using LB as often as possible to heal? Are you not soaking towers?

Like I’m really trying not to be rude but in 14 pages on this thread nobody will tell us why they can’t do this duty

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Since it's possible you're trying to help, let me give you a breakdown of my discussions with my friend who I'm trying to help.

First, this is a bit of a puzzler for us because she usually runs through the MSQ faster than me. And while it took me three tries, she has probably had over 70 attempts at this point, including 20 last weekend.

So given she's usually better than me, we looked at what might be special about this fight.

First, I play WAR a lot, whereas she doesn't play any tanks. But this doesn't make a lot of sense to me as an explanation since Wuk is basically playing like a melee with some self sustain, and my friend understands the healing actions.

I think a more likely candidate is that this fight is very ping sensitive. I have much better ping than my friend. Consequently they are having more trouble avoiding the AoEs. (I read somewhere our LB regenerates faster the more we avoid getting hit. Is this true? If so, this is a pretty brutal snowball mechanic since the more you get hit the less you can heal.) Similarly, in the tower soak bit, I suspect my friend isn't getting from one tower to the next fast enough, again resulting in more damage.

There seems to be a general consensus that Very Easy is messed up somehow, although Easy doesn't seem any better. In fact the three difficulty modes appear basically indistinguishable. I believe this was mentioned as early as last June, and we've heard 0 from SE about it. So in some ways this duty might just be a bit of an oddball, but I see no reason why Very Easy should not be made very easy.

To those of you who want these solo duties to act as a gate, I again suggest this is unhelpful. I can currently enter level 100 group content as BLM. I am absolutely crap at BLM. I leveled 90-100 using Frontline and did the caster role quest as SMN. If you want to ensure players are competent to engage in group content, gate the individual jobs through those solo quests.

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Originally Posted by anje008

I was watching this one on youtube is this the right way he is doing it, because he died like 4 times so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbWGrELhE9o

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Try this one. The pinned comment at the top gives a breakdown of what to do.

https://youtu.be/nxf4FCSo4cA?si=ATzSnkOlwPobFsoI

Thanks for the link. I tried that guide before, and I don't play tank maybe that's why I find it hard. I usually play summoner.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

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Ping shouldn’t be a problem with this fight in terms of solving mechanics because all high ping does in a solo instance it’s slightly desync what’s happening on the screen from what the system is registering (trust me I play on NA from Australia). The towers move sequentially, you soak one then you move to the next one and soak that one. If you find that you aren’t getting to the towers quickly enough due to ping then you need to move earlier, if ping is delaying you then ping will delay the “snapshot” that allows you safely move out of the tower. Dodging mechanics doesn’t affect generation of LB in this fight so that shouldn’t be a concern

If ping is really the problem then you need to shift your focus to acting ahead of the mechanic because the mechanic check delay will be longer on higher ping. If you’ve played on high ping for years this feels pretty inherent. It’s super easy to know exactly when you won’t make a snapshot because of your ping, you just kinda pick up on it

Still this is all based on your assumption that it actually is ping, it’s hard to know without someone who is directly struggling explaining exactly why they are struggling because if they can’t diagnose their issue clearly then they are lacking understanding of the game. Not directly insinuating anything but “bad ping” is often a substitute for “games fault not mine”

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Originally Posted by anje008

Thanks for the link. I tried that guide before, and I don't play tank maybe that's why I find it hard. I usually play summoner.

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There is nothing in this fight that requires you to do anything approaching tanking, you are just playing a DPS in this fight.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Still this is all based on your assumption that it actually is ping, it’s hard to know without someone who is directly struggling explaining exactly why they are struggling because if they can’t diagnose their issue clearly then they are lacking understanding of the game. Not directly insinuating anything but “bad ping” is often a substitute for “games fault not mine”

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As I explained, my friend usually has an easier time with combat than I do, so in trying to figure out why she's struggling so much with this, our difference in ping is the only variable I can think of.

Like when they described how they're approaching the mechanics, everything sounded right, so it's a real puzzler.

Taking a stand was hard.....lmao u guys really struggled on that..... yeah oh boy lvl 100 is doomed XD if you guys are struggling on that im worried really for the future of ff14. Learn to use more than 3 buttons these fights are not that hard.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

As I explained, my friend usually has an easier time with combat than I do, so in trying to figure out why she's struggling so much with this, our difference in ping is the only variable I can think of.

Like when they described how they're approaching the mechanics, everything sounded right, so it's a real puzzler.

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I’m not saying that it isn’t ping but it is hard to know exactly especially since your friend is apparently struggling to diagnose their issue to you. If they are unable to tell you straight up in one or two sentences why they are struggling then this is likely a deeper problem than an isolated solo duty contingent on ping

Ask your friend to explain to you in 1 or 2 sentences “exactly what they are struggling with”. If they give you a clear concise answer like “I’m struggling with the lower healing because I’m still getting clipped by AOE’s” then it is very likely a ping issue or at least a reaction issue that may be caused by something outside of the person’s control like age. If they give you something like “the duty is just hard, things are just constantly going on, I don’t like playing as an NPC” then it’s more likely your friend simply doesn’t understand how the game works at a fundamental level (no shade just being direct) and this problem is going to continue to come up

This is a really easy way to try to teach people how to play the game, if you can’t even diagnose your own issue you have bigger problems than simply not being able to clear a solo duty

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’m not saying that it isn’t ping but it is hard to know exactly especially since your friend is apparently struggling to diagnose their issue to you. If they are unable to tell you straight up in one or two sentences why they are struggling then this is likely a deeper problem than an isolated solo duty contingent on ping

Ask your friend to explain to you in 1 or 2 sentences “exactly what they are struggling with”. If they give you a clear concise answer like “I’m struggling with the lower healing because I’m still getting clipped by AOE’s” then it is very likely a ping issue or at least a reaction issue that may be caused by something outside of the person’s control like age. If they give you something like “the duty is just hard, things are just constantly going on, I don’t like playing as an NPC” then it’s more likely your friend simply doesn’t understand how the game works at a fundamental level (no shade just being direct) and this problem is going to continue to come up

This is a really easy way to try to teach people how to play the game, if you can’t even diagnose your own issue you have bigger problems than simply not being able to clear a solo duty

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Apologies, apparently I'm not being clear enough.

My friend has never been stymied to anything like this degree before, and their description of the problem is getting clipped by AoEs and being too slow from one tower to the next.

FWIW they are mid-60s and suffer from arthritis, but this isn't usually an issue.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Apologies, apparently I'm not being clear enough.

My friend has never been stymied to anything like this degree before, and their description of the problem is getting clipped by AoEs and being too slow from one tower to the next.

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Okay next questions based on that

Does your friend really do duties in very easy thus being blocked simply because very easy appears to be bugged in this duty or are they clearing harder duties like in from the cold in normal but are having trouble with this one? If it’s the former then it’s likely that they have “struggled” with previous competency tests but have been shielded by normal very easy basically being unable to kill you. If it’s this this leads to the second question

Does your friend understand how ping affects their game? Are they waiting for the animation to go off before moving? Are they watching what the boss is doing? I ask this because as I said in a previous post you tend to gain a kinda “6th sense” for ping dependency and I’ve never met anyone playing with high ping who doesn’t know exactly what I mean when I say this. If your friend has always played with high ping they should know they can move earlier than the game leads you to believe. That should solve the tower problem. 14 is based on snapshots not visuals

If this is the only solo duty that they are resorting to very easy then can they explain why this duty is giving them more problems than other duties like say the one in azim steppe

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Okay next questions based on that

Does your friend really do duties in very easy thus being blocked simply because very easy appears to be bugged in this duty or are they clearing harder duties like in from the cold in normal but are having trouble with this one? If it’s the former then it’s likely that they have “struggled” with previous competency tests but have been shielded by normal very easy basically being unable to kill you. If it’s this this leads to the second question

Does your friend understand how ping affects their game? Are they waiting for the animation to go off before moving? Are they watching what the boss is doing? I ask this because as I said in a previous post you tend to gain a kinda “6th sense” for ping dependency and I’ve never met anyone playing with high ping who doesn’t know exactly what I mean when I say this. If your friend has always played with high ping they should know they can move earlier than the game leads you to believe. That should solve the tower problem. 14 is based on snapshots not visuals

If this is the only solo duty that they are resorting to very easy then can they explain why this duty is giving them more problems than other duties like say the one in azim steppe

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Sure, they understand snapshotting and how it's intertwined with ping. Isn't it the Ascian Prime fight that has the orbs and a pretty tight in-out check? They explained to me how to do that by pre-empting it.

Like me, they dislike "play as X" and tend to do them on Very Easy. So I can see how this might be a factor. And maybe this is why so many people struggle with this one because Very Easy is bugged. So... you know, please fix it SE.

The Azim Steppe one where we play as ourselves and have to grab the ovoo? That's a pretty trivial (and enjoyable) solo duty, no? They had no issues with it AFAIK.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Sure, they understand snapshotting and how it's intertwined with ping. Isn't it the Ascian Prime fight that has the orbs and a pretty tight in-out check? They explained to me how to do that by pre-empting it.

Like me, they dislike "play as X" and tend to do them on Very Easy. So I can see how this might be a factor. And maybe this is why so many people struggle with this one because Very Easy is bugged. So... you know, please fix it SE.

The Azim Steppe one where we play as ourselves and have to grab the ovoo? That's a pretty trivial (and enjoyable) solo duty, no? They had no issues with it AFAIK.

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If they can pre-empt the ascian prime check based on ping that returns to my original issue of I physically can’t understand what they are struggling with. Ascian prime is a thousand times tighter than anything in this solo duty. If they can preempt ascian prime based on ping but can’t do the towers in this then there is physically no logical explanation because the towers are slower (again in the nicest way possible unless they mean “I preempt ascian prime as I get hit and the healer heals me and I call it a success”)

Are they getting caught up on playing another job, this duty doesn’t have an enrage, what is it about playing an NPC that people find so hard, wuk has like 3 buttons, if you get so confused by those 3 buttons just don’t press them when doing a mechanic. You should not need to rely on very easy to do this, especially if they understand the game enough to preempt movement based on ping

As for the solo duty I mean the other azim steppe one, the one where we have to defend y’shtola doing her big LB3 where she does the yuna sending dance. I could also point to the one where we help zero with the voidsent in garlemald or the multiple character fight against Zenos

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If they can pre-empt the ascian prime check based on ping that returns to my original issue of I physically can’t understand what they are struggling with. Ascian prime is a thousand times tighter than anything in this solo duty. If they can preempt ascian prime based on ping but can’t do the towers in this then there is physically no logical explanation because the towers are slower (again in the nicest way possible unless they mean “I preempt ascian prime as I get hit and the healer heals me and I call it a success”)

Are they getting caught up on playing another job, this duty doesn’t have an enrage, what is it about playing an NPC that people find so hard, wuk has like 3 buttons, if you get so confused by those 3 buttons just don’t press them when doing a mechanic. You should not need to rely on very easy to do this, especially if they understand the game enough to preempt movement based on ping

As for the solo duty I mean the other azim steppe one, the one where we have to defend y’shtola doing her big LB3 where she does the yuna sending dance. I could also point to the one where we help zero with the voidsent in garlemald or the multiple character fight against Zenos

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This is interesting. It typically isn't hard, it's just that many of us are extremely annoyed that our immersion is shattered. (Like at least In From The Cold explains why we're someone else, even if the rest of the narrative is incomprehensible. But how do I suddenly turn into Alisae?) It's conceivable that entering a duty being pissed off compromises performance.

I don't remember the other Azim Steppe one which likely means I didn't find it difficult.

Additional: when we're playing as ourselves we can overgear a bit, mebbe? Like it's synched, but you can max it. Maybe that helps.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

This is interesting. It typically isn't hard, it's just that many of us are extremely annoyed that our immersion is shattered. (Like at least In From The Cold explains why we're someone else, even if the rest of the narrative is incomprehensible. But how do I suddenly turn into Alisae?) It's conceivable that entering a duty being pissed off compromises performance.

I don't remember the other Azim Steppe one which likely means I didn't find it difficult.

Additional: when we're playing as ourselves we can overgear a bit, mebbe? Like it's synched, but you can max it. Maybe that helps.

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Immersion break (despite it not being immersion breaking because the WOL is still there they just aren’t being controlled) doesn’t explain why people struggle with it so much. If you are standing there failing the duty because you are fuming at having to play Wuk Lamat that’s not the duty’s fault that’s squarely on you. The game even pares down the kits massively to make this easy. Like wuk lamat’s “rotation” is 4 buttons

1) single target button when only facing bakool ja ja
2) AOE button when minions come out
3) use thrill of battle on CD
4) LB on CD

If you can’t understand those 4 buttons your issues with the game are wider than this solo duty. You should be able to intuitively understand the pared down kits of jobs outside your role. If you look at wuk’s 4 button kit and go “I’m a SMN this looks like Latin to me” then your understanding of the game is severely lacking and needs to be bought to attention eventually. If you are trying to look for things to do that you think “fits” the role you are playing that’s also a problem. Nothing in Wuk’s kit involves a semblance of tanking, so people going “I’m not a tank” don’t make any sense because nothing in this quest required you to tank

Overgearing is meaningless because the solo duties specifically prevent it, x1-x9 duties sync you only a level or two above the recommended level which is like an extra 1-2% power, capped duties sync you only 20-30 ilvl’s higher which while a bit stronger is not the difference between success and failure if you are failing on very easy

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Immersion break (despite it not being immersion breaking because the WOL is still there they just aren’t being controlled) doesn’t explain why people struggle with it so much. If you are standing there failing the duty because you are fuming at having to play Wuk Lamat that’s not the duty’s fault that’s squarely on you. The game even pares down the kits massively to make this easy. Like wuk lamat’s “rotation” is 4 buttons

1) single target button when only facing bakool ja ja
2) AOE button when minions come out
3) use thrill of battle on CD
4) LB on CD

If you can’t understand those 4 buttons your issues with the game are wider than this solo duty. You should be able to intuitively understand the pared down kits of jobs outside your role. If you look at wuk’s 4 button kit and go “I’m a SMN this looks like Latin to me” then your understanding of the game is severely lacking and needs to be bought to attention eventually. If you are trying to look for things to do that you think “fits” the role you are playing that’s also a problem. Nothing in Wuk’s kit involves a semblance of tanking, so people going “I’m not a tank” don’t make any sense because nothing in this quest required you to tank

Overgearing is meaningless because the solo duties specifically prevent it, x1-x9 duties sync you only a level or two above the recommended level which is like an extra 1-2% power, capped duties sync you only 20-30 ilvl’s higher which while a bit stronger is not the difference between success and failure if you are failing on very easy

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Can't you also use food and potions when playing as yourself?

Agreed, the 4-button rotation is trivial, and I assume this means the devs compensate by making the mechanics more punishing. The problem isn't executing the rotation, it's dodging.

This of course is unironically a skill issue. But if the skill floor in these things at very easy is deemed acceptable by the devs, they should ensure that it works in all solo duties else a lot of people are going to be very peeved. There's clearly something different about Taking A Stand, and it's presumably the bugged very easy mode.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Can't you also use food and potions when playing as yourself?

Agreed, the 4-button rotation is trivial, and I assume this means the devs compensate by making the mechanics more punishing.

This of course is unironically a skill issue. But if the skill floor in these things at very easy is deemed acceptable by the devs, they should ensure that it works in all solo duties else a lot of people are going to be very peeved. There's clearly something different about Taking A Stand, and it's presumably the bugged very easy mode.

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The very easy mode isn’t necessarily bugged (nor is the easy version easier than very easy) it’s just that because this solo duty is trying to tell a particular story the very easy mode prioritises different things (I went back and played around with this to analyse it rushing through NG+ a few times)

In this solo duty you are supposed to be weaker than bakool ja ja, you overcome him with your shear force of will, this is represented by your limit breaks. Since the limit breaks heal you are required to still get belted by bakool ja ja in order to represent that wuk is transcending her limits. Due to this while very easy mode puts a damper on the damage it still keeps it high enough you need to LB to keep yourself alive because that’s what the story is trying to tell. Very easy still also applies a damage up which allows you skip some of the later mechanics

In this case in an effort to tell the story they have limited the effect very easy has on altering outgoing damage, in a similar way to how you can’t ignore the mechanics on very easy when doing in from the cold. That is just as much dev design as other very easy modes where they do more heavily alter the damage because it isn’t relevant to the story

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The very easy mode isn’t necessarily bugged (nor is the easy version easier than very easy) it’s just that because this solo duty is trying to tell a particular story the very easy mode prioritises different things (I went back and played around with this to analyse it rushing through NG+ a few times)

In this solo duty you are supposed to be weaker than bakool ja ja, you overcome him with your shear force of will, this is represented by your limit breaks. Since the limit breaks heal you are required to still get belted by bakool ja ja in order to represent that wuk is transcending her limits. Due to this while very easy mode puts a damper on the damage it still keeps it high enough you need to LB to keep yourself alive because that’s what the story is trying to tell. Very easy still also applies a damage up which allows you skip some of the later mechanics

In this case in an effort to tell the story they have limited the effect very easy has on altering outgoing damage, in a similar way to how you can’t ignore the mechanics on very easy when doing in from the cold. That is just as much dev design as other very easy modes where they do more heavily alter the damage because it isn’t relevant to the story

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Uhm. That's an interesting and creative speculation/fanfic, but when the difficulty modes are indistinguishable, I just assume the devs screwed up. Have to say I didn't find the fight narratively illuminating in any way, but again that may just reflect the fact I dislike such quests and want them done asap so I can get back to watching my visual novel or getting my hair done. (<-- Bait.)

Maybe if the devs would simply communicate to the players explaining what is going on here, we wouldn't have these lengthy discussions and confused players. Equally they told us the PLD Onsal cheese was "working as intended" before they fixed it, so maybe even that wouldn't help.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Uhm. That's an interesting and creative speculation/fanfic, but when the difficulty modes are indistinguishable, I just assume the devs screwed up. Have to say I didn't find the fight narratively illuminating in any way, but again that may just reflect the fact I dislike such quests and want them done asap so I can get back to watching my visual novel or getting my hair done. (<-- Bait.)

Maybe if the devs would simply communicate to the players explaining what is going on here, we wouldn't have these lengthy discussions and confused players. Equally they told us the PLD Onsal cheese was "working as intended" before they fixed it, so maybe even that wouldn't help.

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As I said the difficulty modes arent indistinguishable they just appear that way to people who are failing. You 100% take way less damage and do way more damage but you are still taking more damage than average very easy mode because of the design of the quest (same as in from the cold)

I tried it again and got further than last time, I used the heal button every time it came up and spammed button 1 like the guide on YouTube says I got pushed into the water and died.
how long does this fight go for.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

As I said the difficulty modes arent indistinguishable they just appear that way to people who are failing. You 100% take way less damage and do way more damage but you are still taking more damage than average very easy mode because of the design of the quest (same as in from the cold)

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Given that is precisely the group who would try the different modes, I think the negative reaction to this fight is understandable.

I'm giving up on this quest.

i was playing ffxi for 11 years before starting ffxiv arr/2.0 learned a lot and got to be a better player this solo msq quest challaged me and made we work to get this done and after tweaking my hot buttons i finally got duty completed and a great feeling of beating a serious fight thank you square enix for helping me find my next level of gameplay

Let me tell you guys what this post = Lots and Lots of skill issues and many of you need to git gud. Seriouly if ur struggling here of all places please please let these be troll post cause dang.....you guys really suck at ff14 how did u make it this far...no seriously how in the heck did u get to this point. O_o

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Originally Posted by george357

i was playing ffxi for 11 years before starting ffxiv arr/2.0 learned a lot and got to be a better player this solo msq quest challaged me and made we work to get this done and after tweaking my hot buttons i finally got duty completed and a great feeling of beating a serious fight thank you square enix for helping me find my next level of gameplay

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Im proud u at least put effort the rest of these ppl giving up got me concerned.