Wuk Lamat is the worst and most annoying character ever in this game

Y'all ninjas posting in a troll thread.

Negative opinions about voice acting and the direction of the game does not indicate that people are trolling.

Sorry this is long. I don't know, it's more generalized beyond what I'm homing in on here. But it was a good outlet to dig into this, especially as I felt these threads have been good examples of what my issue is. Can't blame anyone who cba'd to read.

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Originally Posted by decoratibo

Firstly, thank you for a nicely thought out response, even if I had to cut out a lot of it to fit in a response. This is the kind of thing I was hoping to see here so I really appreciate it.

There are actually a few people talking about this but they're completely buried in mountains of hatred right now. A number of people have noticed how strange a few characters sounded in the new patch, even performances from VAs that are highly regarded here such as G'raha and Krile. Personally I think this is valid criticism, especially those who are bringing up other factors such as direction and issues with VAs working remotely. I would like to see these points brought up more often because I think that's a far more balanced discussion as opposed to pinning the entirety of the blame on a single VA.

I understand this subject is maybe ultimately subjective in the end as you personally seemed to hear nothing wrong, but I still see value in people talking about these things as long as they are civil about it, which unfortunately is not really happening in the majority of these threads, which is why I'm so disappointed.

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I chose to take a look through both threads, to see if there were criticisms that I would consider objectively valuable when it comes to the critique of a performance with intent to improve, on the side of the company or other with the standard I put of: "Providing a direct, tangible example" of where the critical problem occurs (I could provide two, to be fair, but I don't consider them important to me - but if I could find two, I'm sure someone whose entire perspective is more thoroughly negative could find something).

Generally, I did not find anything that was up to the standard I described. All I did encounter was a lot of vitriol, or "I don't like it" styled statements. "I don't like it" is fine, but I'll be honest -- this isn't valuable critique or feedback. And there were a lot of other pieces of feedback that read more akin to... here, I'll write an example to illustrate what I mean:

"Shakespeare is one of the most overrated playwrights of his era. His plays are poorly paced, his dialogue is dry, confusing, and filled with childish jokes that take you right out of the scene. Not to mention how terrible the prose is; with all those odd embellishments to where I simply could not follow the narrative. This is all just a side effect of how awful a playwright this man is. Why anyone appreciates his work, I have no idea, other than they must simply love the man and would sing his praises even while he thwacks them overhead with a shovel and spits on their food."

It's a lot of words, but they ultimately boil down to: "I don't like it." I don't provide examples where things felt "poorly paced", nor do I provide examples of dialogue that fit within my criticism of: "dry, confusing and filled with childish jokes", nor do I explain how, or why, that takes me out of the scene and why that's important. Then, I chose to deride anyone who might disagree with me by essentially stating that those who dissent from my perspective are sycophantic worshipers.

So, what's even valuable about my faux critique of Shakespeare? What am I bringing to the table to dig into? To discuss? If someone were to ask me to clarify and provide examples, I should respond by actually doing this and not reiterating my last sentence over and over and over again.

It's also drenched in condescending, spiteful language - am I critiquing anything? Or just insulting someone's work? Does this "critique" I wrote say anything much about the work, or does it show someone who's a bit more familiar with those works insight to how I, as a person, choose to behave when met with something I'm unfamiliar with, find difficult, or even - possibly - find uncomfortable? Would it be incorrect for that person to assume that it's more likely I don't really know what I'm talking about? That most of it is likely coming from misunderstanding, unfamiliarity, and an unwillingness to engage more thoughtfully? Am I, perhaps, using the spite to overcompensate for an insecurity that, maybe, I don't really understand the work and feel too afraid of someone judging me for that? Or, maybe, I just really don't like the guy. For some. Reason. Hm.

I'll say this: Statements like I wrote, especially when they are written a bit more thoughtfully and with more respectful language, are completely fine starting points to develop a thoughtful conversation. But it's not objective, valuable critique -- it's a subjective opinion that, generally, someone might look at and want to understand why it is I think that way. And then... you know, you share perspectives with each other from there, and so on and so on.

And that is valuable. And there can be valuable information of interest to professionals in those kinds of discussions, or when people are generally expressing a notion in a constructive manner (as it can point to an issue to look at) -- but, when it's all so spiteful, vitriolic and downright insulting... who's... going to gain value from that? I mean, no one should read all that for their own sake. It's degrading. It's demotivating. It saps at your mind. And no one here, who dishes that out, would ever be able to take it in kind so any "lol grow thicker skin"-esque comments fall on deaf ears when they're whining at someone for posting a meme image saying their post was uninteresting.

It's frustrating, though. I like genuine, good-faith discussions. I like trying to learn and see new perspectives, or to maybe learn something new myself. Online spaces are just so filled with this "vitriolic 'critic'" type persona that "combats" the "I love everything and I'll send anyone who disagrees with me hateful messages" persona not realizing they're both equally unhinged and weird.

And I don't mean to make this feel like it's all directed at you, Deco. I'm more using things you said before, and now, as jumping off points - I was genuinely hoping to find what you described, and while there were very, very few (I mean on one hand few) posts that were a little more respectful when presenting their thoughts, the way they were engaged with ultimately destroyed any potential for anything of interest to be said. I'm typing a lot since I've felt this way for a while, and this felt like an appropriate place to put it out there to some degree.

Especially when I feel like a lot of the "criticism" is just intended to attack the VA for being trans. I see it in posts (prior to deletion), I see it in tags, I see it insinuated, and I've never seen this level of... focus, on an individual's work with a character before (no, not even with Varshan/whoever the [...]k else -- I don't know their VA names and I checked those threads out, too. I know way more about this character's VA than I honestly feel comfortable knowing from, essentially, a thread of unhinged vitriol for 80+% of it). It's... really [...]ing weird, I'll be honest.

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Originally Posted by Embran

Dude, which is it? Is she Latina? Because when people say she's Latina, you say she's from Kentucky.

Or is she Kentuckian? Because when people say she's from Kentucky, she's suddenly Latina.

You're not even trying, man. I'm done humoring you.

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Let me impose the same question to you: if I live in Japan, does that make me Japanese? If I have White children on another White woman I brought to Japan, are those children Japanese? Do they represent Japan? What if we did it so much that Japanese are now considered minority in Japan and instead the highest population density is White? Do you not see how insulting that is? Stop being racist.

And since you brought up "original tribes," one word to stop you: Tartaria.

This is a multi-million dollar game that's been out for over a decade. They no longer have the luxury of having such sub-par amateur voice actors play main roles, especially when they're willing to recycle current actors for other roles as often as they do. She doesn't sound experienced at all, she sounds like the kid who played Vaan in FF12.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f8574223697d8&

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Originally Posted by Mithron

Let me impose the same question to you: if I live in Japan, does that make me Japanese? If I have White children on another White woman I brought to Japan, are those children Japanese? Do they represent Japan? What if we did it so much that Japanese are now considered minority in Japan and instead the highest population density is White? Do you not see how insulting that is? Stop being racist.

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In some countries, the fact that your children were born in a country, educated like natives, share the same ideals as these natives and share their language will make them strictly equivalent to the natives in question.

For others, ethnicity is too central and cannot be separated from nationality, with a few exceptions.

So there is no universal answer to your question. For your example: in Japan, the fact that you are not of Japanese blood will always be a problem, and being white you will surely never be considered anything other than a foreigner.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

6.0: Varshahn is the most annoying characer ever
6.2: Zero is the most annoying character ever
6.55: Wuk Lamat is the most annoying character ever

never change, official forums, never change

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Because they are cancer, so they see everyone else as cancer

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Originally Posted by Mithron

And since you brought up "original tribes," one word to stop you: Tartaria.

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Cool cool cool, we're going deep cut niche conspiracy theories, thanks for making it crystal clear that it's time to stop engaging with you

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Originally Posted by Raikaiko

Cool cool cool, we're going deep cut niche conspiracy theories, thanks for making it crystal clear that it's time to stop engaging with you

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Dang, I thought people who believed in that were a myth. I never expected to see one on the forums lmao.

I mean, wasn't that bad. The npc put on a brave face but in the eye of terror really showed cowardice. So much so that even Graha thought to give encouragement.

Shows a hunter who speaks large but when facing a real foes can and will seize up.

As for the voice acting. Wasn't bad. They had a direction they were going with it and probably nailed it.

As for the npcs looks. That's way better then it was in the trailer. In the trailer the body looked ripped from femroe and they stuck a small head on there lol. This is also a real first look in game but it will probably get way better come dawntrail time.

As for the fans. We know lots of them are horn dogs wanting that femhroth for...well we all know

Character itself is not a bad concept at all. She is being set up for large growth, which is fine. I just don't understand why we so easily jumped on board to intervene in a place we know nothing about in favor of a person we just met and without meeting the other candidates, the current leader, or anyone else.

VA is bad, and I recently found out they are very aggressive on Twitter.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Character itself is not a bad concept at all. She is being set up for large growth, which is fine. I just don't understand why we so easily jumped on board to intervene in a place we know nothing about in favor of a person we just met and without meeting the other candidates, the current leader, or anyone else.

VA is bad, and I recently found out they are very aggressive on Twitter.

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But they're trans so if you dont like them or just dont like their behavior and find them aggressive, that's transphobia !

This is the world we live in now

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

But they're trans so if you dont like them or just dont like their behavior and find them aggressive, that's transphobia !

This is the world we live in now

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That is incredibly disingenuous as to what people have been doing to be called transphobic.


But you do you stormy.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

But they're trans so if you dont like them or just dont like their behavior and find them aggressive, that's transphobia !

This is the world we live in now

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The world we live in now is hating the voice actor simply because she is trans. That's what this is all about, let's not kid ourselves here.

I've never seen such backlash before for any cis voice actor. Dozens of threads, silly argument after silly argument. Hardly one valid complaint.

Don't like the voice acting? Cool. There's been a handful of odd voices I've heard in this game. So what? Why does this warrant dozens of threads?

What was the other complaint here, she's argumentative on Twitter, really? Really? I've been following her and that's just complete nonsense.

This is a witch hunt, nothing more nothing less. Being unhappy with the voice work is one thing but that's not with this has ever been about. Period.

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Originally Posted by Junepi93

The world we live in now is hating the voice actor simply because she is trans. That's what this is all about, let's not kid ourselves here.

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...and then one day, for no reason at all, people started hating the voice actor ;)

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

...and then one day, for no reason at all, people started hating the voice actor ;)

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Interesting how she is calling for other people to step down because they are not trans. So if Wuk Lamat is straight should they step down from playing the role? TBH I didn't care who the VA for Wuk was and the performance seemed average to me but yeah, I wouldn't want them to be the VA for Wuk if she's hating on straight people for doing VAs for trans characters. It does make me like them less now.

I wish we would've never found out who Wuk's VA was. It's souring the experience.

Hmm taking accountability or throwing the victim card... choices choices... Maby just maby ppl don't give a damn about someones sexuality and are just criticizing the performance. But i guess that's impossible in this universe and everyone hates everyone for every stupid little reason lmao.
What a non issue. If you do your job well then no one says anything or praises you but if you don't then maby you need to be told that you can do better. Social media drama and agenda arguing is rotting ppls brains.

Also some of the blame lies with the voice acting director since they are ultimately responsible what is the acceptable performance that is put into the game. But we all know EW was crap anyway so this is nothing new. DT redeeming arc COPIUM KEK

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

...and then one day, for no reason at all, people started hating the voice actor ;)

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People wont talk about that one though, it doesnt fit their narrative ; )

Also I checked the person's page, their entire personality is literally just being trans, its trans posts after trans posts, even calling anime character trans, really weird honestly, that mixed with the palestine-israel war opinions sure is an interesting combo

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Originally Posted by Mithron

The voice actor is terrible, the personality is worse, her face looks uncanny, fake, terrifying and completely out of place, everything about this character is the epitome of the wrong direction this game has been taking.

It's hard to believe I'm living in a time where I appreciate Stormblood and Zenos more than this effluvia.

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Eh? So far she's great. Voice acting is fine and I love the accent.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

People wont talk about that one though, it doesnt fit their narrative ; )

Also I checked the person's page, their entire personality is literally just being trans, its trans posts after trans posts, even calling anime character trans, really weird honestly, that mixed with the palestine-israel war opinions sure is an interesting combo

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It also has nothing to do with the quality of the acting or how she sounds. Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

...and then one day, for no reason at all, people started hating the voice actor ;)

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Aren't you guys the one telling her to step down because she's not South American or whatever? Also some telling her to step down simply because she's trans, even if they don't admit that.

I'd have to agree, I don't know the show but I'd imagine a trans character should be played by a trans voice actor even if I disagree that the person should step down.

What you showed me was petty Twitter beef and I don't care that much about it. Nothing to warrant a dozen threads over.

Also a trans woman is a woman, Wuk is a woman, so trying to flip that argument like that is just transphobia.

Don't like her personally and her work, that's fine, but to make it this big of a deal? Acting like she's hurt someone or something. Nah there's more going on here than that.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It also has nothing to do with the quality of the acting or how she sounds. Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

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Well she is a terrible voice actor, that is my personal opinion, and the opinion a lot of people also share, and on top of that, she is a terrible person as can be seen on her twitter, tweets such as :

https://twitter.com/senabryer/status...03514031775745

https://twitter.com/senabryer/status...30199041445889

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Originally Posted by Junepi93

Aren't you guys the one telling her to step down because she's not South American or whatever? Also some telling her to step down simply because she's trans, even if they don't admit that.

I'd have to agree, I don't know the show but I'd imagine a trans character should be played by a trans voice actor even if I disagree that the person should step down.

What you showed me was petty Twitter beef and I don't care that much about it. Nothing to warrant a dozen threads over.

Also a trans woman is a woman, Wuk is a woman, so trying to flip that argument like that is just transphobia.

Don't like her personally and her work, that's fine, but to make it this big of a deal? Acting like she's hurt someone or something. Nah there's more going on here than that.

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No, a trans woman is a trans woman. A biological male that did a transition (see, the trans word in trans woman !) to female.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Well she is a terrible voice actor, that is my personal opinion, and the opinion a lot of people also share, and on top of that, she is a terrible person as can be seen on her twitter, tweets such as :

https://twitter.com/senabryer/status...03514031775745

https://twitter.com/senabryer/status...30199041445889



No, a trans woman is a trans woman. A biological male that did a transition (see, the trans word in trans woman !) to female.

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A trans woman is a woman, a trans man is a man. Being transphobic doesn't change that fact. I'm not arguing over this anymore, I'm off these forums until this nonsense is over with. The ffxiv community should be ashamed, we've always been a welcoming community. This feels more like asmon wow territory now.

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Originally Posted by Junepi93

A trans woman is a woman, a trans man is a man. Being transphobic doesn't change that fact. I'm not arguing over this anymore, I'm off these forums until this nonsense is over with. The ffxiv community should be ashamed, we've always been a welcoming community. This feels more like asmon wow territory now.

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I am not transphobic for saying a trans woman is a trans woman, it literally is self implied that they have transitioned to be a woman, that's why they are called trans women.

Enjoy your hiatus from the forums though.

If I misgendered them, I'd agree with you that it's transphobic, but I am not. They are a she, but they are still trans women.

The bright side is that this place is not really in any way representative of 'the FFXIV community', no matter how vociferously a few people around here choose to nominate themselves as the Voice of the Masses. It's a couple handfuls of people who have been thrown out of everywhere else, a couple handfuls who don't know anywhere else exists, a couple handfuls who have been told to shut up about the stupid thing they're complaining about in their usual communities, and a couple handfuls of wanderers who should know better than to stick their head in the dumpster but do it anyway. It's about as representative as your neighborhood on Nextdoor or a Twitter poll.

Definitely a new low for some of you, though!

Not really related to the voice acting, but

It's really a shame we can't have discussions about what it IS to be a trans woman/man, and how that differs (if you think it does or doesn't) from being a woman/man. Instead, we have one side that belittles/mocks the other side and thinks their mentally ill, and spews all sorts of hate, and the other side will often shut down all discussion with "A trans man/woman is a man/woman. period. there is no discussion".

Where is any sense of nuance in modern discourse? Makes me a bit sad.

Nuance in publicly-facing discussions has been dead on the internet more or less since inception. An unfortunate reality is that gatekeeping often keeps people with value out, but an unkept gate also means the people who want to dump on the discussion can walk on in.

That said, it's also a discussion where most people don't actually have useful or valuable insight. Considering that validity of someone's existence is not really for anyone else to debate, all that's left is a morass of inconsequential judgements and opinions.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Not really related to the voice acting, but

It's really a shame we can't have discussions about what it IS to be a trans woman/man, and how that differs (if you think it does or doesn't) from being a woman/man. Instead, we have one side that belittles/mocks the other side and thinks their mentally ill, and spews all sorts of hate, and the other side will often shut down all discussion with "A trans man/woman is a man/woman. period. there is no discussion".

Where is any sense of nuance in modern discourse? Makes me a bit sad.

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Be the change you want to see in the world, because while I want to extend some good faith that it is for ignorance and not malice, I find some nuance lacking here.

A trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man, I reject the premise that there is any discussion or debate to be had there.

There is no difference between a trans woman and this platonic ideal, adjectiveless woman, and really I think when you get down into it, in a nuanced and intersectional discussion that adjectiveless woman is a concept that isn't functional and useful. Is there a difference in the experiences of trans women and cis women, yes, absolutely, but by that same token there is a difference in the experience of a black women and white women, between disabled women and able-bodied women, low socioeconomic status women and high ses women. "Women" is a set and all of these groups within it are subsets, but they are still a part of the overall set. Identities are so multifaceted, intersectional, and individual. You cannot define a platonic ideal of the set as a whole to compare the subsets to. When set X contains [a, b, c] you can compare "a" and "not a" but you can't compare "a" and N because N includes "a".

They're a bad va, I don't care what their religion is.

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Hien was also making an accent

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And he was also bad, what's your point?

To me it just matters that the voice works for the character. At first it didn't, but over time the work grew on me and I got to the point where I enjoyed Wuk Lamat. I'm interested in seeing what happens in the future.

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Originally Posted by Raikaiko

A trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man, I reject the premise that there is any discussion or debate to be had there.

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Then is there a need for the term "trans"?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Then is there a need for the term "trans"?

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Originally Posted by Raikaiko

There is no difference between a trans woman and this platonic ideal, adjectiveless woman, and really I think when you get down into it, in a nuanced and intersectional discussion that adjectiveless woman is a concept that isn't functional and useful. Is there a difference in the experiences of trans women and cis women, yes, absolutely, but by that same token there is a difference in the experience of a black women and white women, between disabled women and able-bodied women, low socioeconomic status women and high ses women. "Women" is a set and all of these groups within it are subsets, but they are still a part of the overall set. Identities are so multifaceted, intersectional, and individual. You cannot define a platonic ideal of the set as a whole to compare the subsets to. When set X contains [a, b, c] you can compare "a" and "not a" but you can't compare "a" and N because N includes "a".

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Set, subset

I played through the 6.55 MSQ over the past few days and watched, and listened to, each and every cutscene in its entirety. At no point did I ever think there was anything wrong with the quality of the voice acting for Wuk Lamat. I still don't. But I tell you, I'd wish I'd stayed out of this thread.

nope, there's nothing here for me

https://gifrific.com/wp-content/uplo...a-simpsons.gif

Is it possible to critize a actor without making their gender part of the conversation?? Thread seems to be putting a little too much focus on the VA gender.

Typically we do not discuss things in their past state. If we convert a library to an office, we do not say "this is a library". When a human turns 21, we do not say "this is a baby". Although previous states are interesting, they do not account for the changes that have occurred. What would be the point of transitioning to anything if not to become that thing? That's the very definition of what it means. You transition, then the state has changed.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Not really related to the voice acting, but

It's really a shame we can't have discussions about what it IS to be a trans woman/man, and how that differs (if you think it does or doesn't) from being a woman/man. Instead, we have one side that belittles/mocks the other side and thinks their mentally ill, and spews all sorts of hate, and the other side will often shut down all discussion with "A trans man/woman is a man/woman. period. there is no discussion".

Where is any sense of nuance in modern discourse? Makes me a bit sad.

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To be fair, there's not much value in that kind of discussion most of the time. When it becomes interesting is when looking at things from a sociological, historical, philosophical angle where the people involved either (a) have actual education on the topic, or (b) are trans themselves and are expressing the way these things intersect together (and not every single trans person is necessarily good at articulating all that -- generally, trans people just want to be shown dignity and respect that'd be shown to cis people. I don't think that's ridiculous). I've had discussions with plenty of well meaning cis people, but there's always a breakdown in understanding if I were to go into those other areas as they aren't familiar with them, and don't have a foundational basis to work with, whereas with some other trans people, the discussion can also breakdown in a not dis-similar fashion. It's not necessarily "because they're stupid", it's a complicated conversation with a lot of nuance that does require some actual research/understanding to really engage with productively. And, not every trans person necessarily cares about this level of depth to their identity - since, ultimately, they just want to be treated with the same dignity/respect as their peers and counterparts and feel understandably upset/frustrated when [...]t on instead. (And it is frustrating when cis people act as if every trans person they encounter should have 8 phds on the topic).

Especially with a lot of media stoking reactionary responses, it becomes a lot more difficult, in general, as too many people latch onto whatever they heard x/y pundit say or a/b politician say and don't know how to actually do proper research (including understanding others' perspectives), or know how to practice the concept of empathy for people they struggle to relate to. "Othering" people is easy, empathizing with them and showing human compassion, respect and dignity is apparently difficult (I mean, I could even point to how people talk about murdering children across the globe right now, for an even more dire example of the same thought process at work).

Of course, though, I do wish people were more respectful of other people. But when someone's trying to claim "X is a bad person because X thinks trans women should have the opportunity to VA as trans characters" while editing tags of threads to specifically [...]t on a trans woman for simply having the trans identity, or use language they are fully aware is incendiary to try to "cleverly" hide their distaste for trans people... I'm just saying, I don't think it's worth listening to what they have to say anymore. Especially when they misunderstand the actual point that's attempted to be gotten across, and also when that point brought up has 0 bearing on performance quality (the supposed issue), and when that was written almost a year ago and is being brought up in a weird, creepy "this person said a thing I don't like" or whatever, "therefore they're bad and I'm good" from someone trawling through a social media account of a stranger, while I also bet sympathized with that one person for being removed from a XIV event or w/e that was for twitter opinions... it's just... disingenuous, unprincipled, and kinda uninformed to the point where it's like... "even taking all of that in, as if it meant anything... do you have reading comprehension or... no? Because you're not even clicking onto the actual point of it."

Which, this is just kinda... I understand what you mean -- I do enjoy talking in depth with other trans people about gender in general (Or, really, people who do understand a lot of foundational information and are curious people instead of incurious), it's a really deep, nuanced, interesting conversation when people have really thought about it. And it does sort of suck that there's a lot of people who aren't interested in ideas, and only in attacking people, and refuse to try and challenge their own perspective because it likely just makes them feel uncomfortable to do so. But I also don't consider both of the extremes equal, either -- since at the end of the day, yeah, the "other" side (ie: trans people for the most part) really do just want to be treated as a man/woman irrespective of the "trans" adjective. And there isn't a discussion about how poorly we should treat ___ group. That's just a trap and a stupid premise for a question when trying to understand other people.

Either way, there are times on the forums when there's some decent conversation (it's rare), and I think it's better to ignore the people who only think in a black/white dichotomy of reality who struggle with the concept of nuance and don't know how to behave like a normal person rather than feeding into their misplaced ego that's contingent on... uh, their forum personality, I guess?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I am not transphobic for saying a trans woman is a trans woman, it literally is self implied that they have transitioned to be a woman, that's why they are called trans women.

Enjoy your hiatus from the forums though.

If I misgendered them, I'd agree with you that it's transphobic, but I am not. They are a she, but they are still trans women.

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But the word transition itself brings along the idea that something (be it a person or an object) existed in one state and has become another state. You are correct in that technically a trans woman is a trans woman. There are instances (medical services for instance) where that designation may be important to know. But I think the general idea is that in terms of how they should be designated in society is that they are fully what they have transitioned into. Thus it stands that a trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man and should be treated the same as those assigned that at birth. I see a decent number of trans men and women on the bird app do use the term themselves. I think a lot of that is because that representation is needed now, because we're not quite to the point in the society where we can treat them as they should be treated.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

But the word transition itself brings along the idea that something (be it a person or an object) existed in one state and has become another state. You are correct in that technically a trans woman is a trans woman. There are instances (medical services for instance) where that designation may be important to know. But I think the general idea is that in terms of how they should be designated in society is that they are fully what they have transitioned into. Thus it stands that a trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man and should be treated the same as those assigned that at birth. I see a decent number of trans men and women on the bird app do use the term themselves. I think a lot of that is because that representation is needed now, because we're not quite to the point in the society where we can treat them as they should be treated.

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Correct. Sena herself uses the term trans woman but the key is that, depending on the trans person and where they are in their journey or where they are contextually at the time, it can also be appropriate or even preferred to refer to them as a woman. Blonde hair is blonde hair but it's also hair. That person still has hair. Moreover you can't stop someone else from considering a trans woman a woman anyway, so it's useless to fight.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

But they're trans so if you dont like them or just dont like their behavior and find them aggressive, that's transphobia !

This is the world we live in now

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

...and then one day, for no reason at all, people started hating the voice actor ;)

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Very glad to oppose this voice actor.