Solution 9 - Unfounded Speculation!

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Fair, I had forgotten about Omega, but that seems very much like we weren't so much "in the rift" as in a pocket dimension that Omega had constructed within the rift, which we saw collapse into nothingness once Omega's power ceased to support its existence.

Hildibrand... no comment. If anyone can manage to blithely end up out of bounds of reality, it's him.

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Hildi's weird... despite it being so wacky there is a lot of really good lore dumps to be found. To be fair it's hard to tell what's just pure comedy and actually what's real-real/canon with his antics.

Emet Selch says at the end of Endwalker: "Some of che civilizazion in the reflections will surprise you"

So I think Solution 9 comes from another reflection. The other worlds have not had calamities, so it is likely that their civilization has advanced to a very high technological level.
The problem is how it arrive to the source

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Originally Posted by Anteiron

Emet Selch says at the end of Endwalker: "Some of che civilizazion in the reflections will surprise you"

So I think Solution 9 comes from another reflection. The other worlds have not had calamities, so it is likely that their civilization has advanced to a very high technological level.
The problem is how it arrive to the source

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The "problem" is that people keep drawing this flimsiest of connections to a line that is probably just paving the way for us to actually visit other reflections (plural) in the future. It also assumes that we're going to burn through all of Emet's sightseeing recommendations in a single expansion and leave nothing for later.

Additionally, after Y'shtola has put so much work into devising a way to cross the rift, it seems unfair to just drop the answer in her lap from a civilisation that already has it figured out.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The "problem" is that people keep drawing this flimsiest of connections to a line that is probably just paving the way for us to actually visit other reflections (plural) in the future. It also assumes that we're going to burn through all of Emet's sightseeing recommendations in a single expansion and leave nothing for later.

Additionally, after Y'shtola has put so much work into devising a way to cross the rift, it seems unfair to just drop the answer in her lap from a civilisation that already has it figured out.

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What if it were Y'shtola's experiments that brought solution nine to the source? Maybe I remember wrong, but she was the only one we didn't see leave for the new world.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The "problem" is that people keep drawing this flimsiest of connections to a line that is probably just paving the way for us to actually visit other reflections (plural) in the future. It also assumes that we're going to burn through all of Emet's sightseeing recommendations in a single expansion and leave nothing for later.

Additionally, after Y'shtola has put so much work into devising a way to cross the rift, it seems unfair to just drop the answer in her lap from a civilisation that already has it figured out.

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I mean... that's kind of what always happens though. The dropping of solutions into her lap. See 6.55 with Cid's offscreen innovation to make the whole funnel Light from The First to the Thirteenth, and Y'shtola just showing up with the device as if it were no big deal.

See again the solution for Tempering.

See again the antidote for the poison back in SHB.

See again The House of the Crooked Coin for Seiryu's Wall.

I'm sure if Solution 9 has her answer, we'll have to fight a dungeon for it or whatever, but I kind of doubt she's gonna innovate a portal on her own. That is what would be uncharacteristic of XIV and Y'shtola related situations.

Wellll, if we want to speculate on whether S9 is even around or not, some details "that are probably true" if we take what we've learned at face value:

1) Tural had been in a state of constant war up until ~80 years ago.
2) The capital city of Tuliyollal was founded by the current Dawnservant Gulool Ja Ja, who unified the varied "disparate" peoples.
3) We don't know if Tuliyollal was founded on older ruins that predate the current city-state.
4) One of the four claimants to the throne (who remains unnamed), sees the fall of the Garlean Empire as a reason to invade/conquer Eorzea/Othard/whatever.

Which raises questions...

If S9 exists and is known,
1) why isn't IT the dominant nation on the continent, or the seat of power if incorporated into the wider Turali people?
2) why would the "Evil" claimant wanted conquest, why choose to sail across the seas and do arguably a much more complicated conquest/expansion INSTEAD of just marching north?
3) and on that, why move their armies away so they couldn't defend against potentially aggressive actions from S9?

So...
A) it's pacifist/isolationist aka Sharlayan 2: Electric Bugaboo
B) it is "unknown" to the general population
C) something is wrong (cursed/frozen in time/dimensional rift/shifted in some weird way)
D) Exdeath? Exdeath.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

If S9 exists and is known,
1) why isn't IT the dominant nation on the continent, or the seat of power if incorporated into the wider Turali people?
2) why would the "Evil" claimant wanted conquest, why choose to sail across the seas and do arguably a much more complicated conquest/expansion INSTEAD of just marching north?
3) and on that, why move their armies away so they couldn't defend against potentially aggressive actions from S9?

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1. Not interested in being that, and/or perhaps just not politically active enough to take that crown. Tulliyolal is the throne of the guy that unified the continent, after all.
2. Already part of Tural as a society.
3. Already part of Tural as a society.

Your reading seems to assume that Solution Nine would inherently be the head of Turalian society if it was involved at all, and so since Tulliyolal is, Solution Nine must therefore be uninvolved. But honestly, my read is that Solution Nine is a goddamn repository of high-tech combat-ready equipment, and the warmonger is going 'We have all this firepower RIGHT HERE, why don't we just go overseas and USE IT'. And everyone else is just telling him 'no, war sucks, knock it off'.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

1. Not interested in being that, and/or perhaps just not politically active enough to take that crown. Tulliyolal is the throne of the guy that unified the continent, after all.
2. Already part of Tural as a society.
3. Already part of Tural as a society.

Your reading seems to assume that Solution Nine would inherently be the head of Turalian society if it was involved at all, and so since Tulliyolal is, Solution Nine must therefore be uninvolved. But honestly, my read is that Solution Nine is a goddamn repository of high-tech combat-ready equipment, and the warmonger is going 'We have all this firepower RIGHT HERE, why don't we just go overseas and USE IT'. And everyone else is just telling him 'no, war sucks, knock it off'.

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If S9 is part of the nation, why is it not the seat of power? Why would you live in what is essentially monster-hunter “bone-punk” conditions when you have NeoTokyo with whatever amenities they have right down the street.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

If S9 is part of the nation, why is it not the seat of power?

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I dunno, let's ask the people who live in Washington DC. Or Canberra. Or Beijing, or Ottowa, or Hanoi. Or perhaps the best people to bring in, Brasilia.

There are plenty of real-world nations that have made this exact choice. The original reasons usually stem from either tactical (Ottowa was the most defensible city in Canada back when they picked) or political (Canberra was founded to be the capital of Australia mainly so Sydney and Melbourne would stop fighting over it), but in a lot of cases it eventually becomes historical; this city's the capital because it's always been the capital. Honestly, I think it's more realistic if Tural is exactly the same; Tulliyolal is the capital for reasons that probably made perfect sense 80+ years ago, and even if they don't apply anymore, does anyone really care enough to change it?

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I dunno, let's ask the people who live in Washington DC. Or Canberra. Or Beijing, or Ottowa, or Hanoi. Or perhaps the best people to bring in, Brasilia.

There are plenty of real-world nations that have made this exact choice. The original reasons usually stem from either tactical (Ottowa was the most defensible city in Canada back when they picked) or political (Canberra was founded to be the capital of Australia mainly so Sydney and Melbourne would stop fighting over it), but in a lot of cases it eventually becomes historical; this city's the capital because it's always been the capital. Honestly, I think it's more realistic if Tural is exactly the same; Tulliyolal is the capital for reasons that probably made perfect sense 80+ years ago, and even if they don't apply anymore, does anyone really care enough to change it?

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Your argument would work if, say, Washington DC's level of tech/etc was grossly under, say, New York's...but fact of the matter is there isn't much of a technological difference, and a large bulk of USA's military/international power is around Washington DC (the Pentagon; Langley AFB; Norfolk Naval Shipyard, CIA). People in DC aren't stuck with handcarts and ye-olde Wagons with oxen.

Moreover, in the modern real world with Air-Power/mobilization, it's a significantly different scenario than Medieval-Spear-and-Sword troops riding on living mounts vs, again, what can arguably be the most advanced -living- civilization we've seen to date.

So, as I see it, the Yurali are either choosing to live primitively for no real logical reason, or there's some reason they aren't taking advantage of the tech from S9 (aka the 3 reasons listed).

You're assuming that the futuristic-looking stuff is inherently "better" than the jungle setting. There's no particular reason for it to be, especially in a magical setting where the difference in the two may be mostly aesthetic rather than comfort or even function.

Tuliyollal is central on the continent and is their traditional culture.

Solution Nine at its most mundane interpretation is a city built to fit into an otherwise gloomy and inhospitable region in the far northwest reaches of the continent. Nothing we've seen so far presents a specifically compelling reason for people to move there.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You're assuming that the futuristic-looking stuff is inherently "better" than the jungle setting. There's no particular reason for it to be, especially in a magical setting where the difference in the two may be mostly aesthetic rather than comfort or even function.

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In a world of high sorcery, that's the most fair argument I think we have;

Like, real world who could argue a society without proper medical facilities or air conditioner or paved roads would be equal to one with... (and this is my mindset)

...but then in FFXIV you can just Blizzard up some cool air and Medica away all your troubles, I guess. And my flying roto-tiller-motorcycle is a thing..so...
https://buzzazz.com/wp-content/uploa...the-future.gif

Fair point!

And this is the assumption of what range of hi-tech Solution Nine actually has - if any of it translates into anything that has force projection or military or trade application. Considering it’s still unclear what in lives (if anyone) in Solution Nine’s cyberpunk matrix vibes, it’s a step far.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

In a world of high sorcery, that's the most fair argument I think we have;

Like, real world who could argue a society without proper medical facilities or air conditioner or paved roads would be equal to one with... (and this is my mindset)

...but then in FFXIV you can just Blizzard up some cool air and Medica away all your troubles, I guess. And my flying roto-tiller-motorcycle is a thing..so...
https://buzzazz.com/wp-content/uploa...the-future.gif

Fair point!

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And on the other hand, I can guarantee you that when we inevitably see Solution Nine-origin weapons, they're gonna include a bunch of swords, an axe, and a bow.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

And on the other hand, I can guarantee you that when we inevitably see Solution Nine-origin weapons, they're gonna include a bunch of swords, an axe, and a bow.

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Well of course they're going to have those weapons. It doesn't mean they can't end up looking high tech. Or very modern.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Well of course they're going to have those weapons. It doesn't mean they can't end up looking high tech. Or very modern.

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Oh, absolutely, I'm just pointing out that we're in a setting where tech isn't exactly following real-world example. Just as Tulliyolal can absolutely use magic to provide resources we'd in the real world lean on modern tech to do, including producing a presumably very cool aztec-y styled gun for Machinists, Solution Nine's gonna come out to show that the biggest, craziest tech in the FFXIV setting is still gonna be producing A Really Cool Sword.

In a setting like this, more tech doesn't supercede anything, it's just a different approach.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

In a setting like this, more tech doesn't supercede anything, it's just a different approach.

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I mean, on paper yes and agreed, especially taking into account Iscah's point that Future tech doesn't necessarily mean it's better, but I would note that the technologically superior Garlean Empire absolutely dominated magic-based ones up until all the other nations got their collective shit together to stall their advance. Even then, they didn't stop being a major threat until an Ascian and bored prince decided to speed-run the nihilistic route to self-destruction.

And yes- it is kinda funny that all the technology in the world still just produces LOL Swords.

All good points raised though!

It's for all of the Lt. Sulus out there who took up fencing in a world full of blasters.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I mean, on paper yes and agreed, especially taking into account Iscah's point that Future tech doesn't necessarily mean it's better, but I would note that the technologically superior Garlean Empire absolutely dominated magic-based ones up until all the other nations got their collective shit together to stall their advance. Even then, they didn't stop being a major threat until an Ascian and bored prince decided to speed-run the nihilistic route to self-destruction.

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So it's somewhat unrelated, but I've been chewing on this for a bit, and from waht I know, the Empire's victories didn't really come from their magitek. It gave them equal footing in head-to-head combat, and probably something of an edge in the air, but their real known victories were tactical. Invading countries too unstable to put up a cohesive fight (Bozja, Werlyt), destabilizing the countries that could've posed a challenge (Ala Mhigo). Doma's basically the only country we know of that they beat in a straight fight, mostly by air superiority; the main reason their conquest of Eorzea stopped where it did was that they couldn't bust into the mainland, stopped by both the Elementals and Midgardsormr.

The magitek sure helped them, but we're not looking at a Civilization game where a tank rolls in on crossbowmen. It was the equalizer, not the decider.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

So it's somewhat unrelated, but I've been chewing on this for a bit, and from waht I know, the Empire's victories didn't really come from their magitek. It gave them equal footing in head-to-head combat, and probably something of an edge in the air, but their real known victories were tactical. Invading countries too unstable to put up a cohesive fight (Bozja, Werlyt), destabilizing the countries that could've posed a challenge (Ala Mhigo). Doma's basically the only country we know of that they beat in a straight fight, mostly by air superiority; the main reason their conquest of Eorzea stopped where it did was that they couldn't bust into the mainland, stopped by both the Elementals and Midgardsormr.

The magitek sure helped them, but we're not looking at a Civilization game where a tank rolls in on crossbowmen. It was the equalizer, not the decider.

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This is fair, and I would even add to counter my own argument that the Empire had “lol Ascians”, who could basically cheat whatever systems by creating problems. Things like riling up beast tribes to keep the alliance disorganized.

Ok, I'm replaying Stormblood with an alt and I'm 99% sure House of the Crooked Coin was built by the same civilization that built Solution 9. Same color, similar pattern. I think the one in Azim Steppe was destroyed by one of the calamities while the one in Tural survived because most calamities are centered around Eorzea. Since the legend of Azim is popular with the Xaela, I'm also 99% sure that Azem had something to do with Solution 9.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

Ok, I'm replaying Stormblood with an alt and I'm 99% sure House of the Crooked Coin was built by the same civilization that built Solution 9. Same color, similar pattern. I think the one in Azim Steppe was destroyed by one of the calamities while the one in Tural survived because most calamities are centered around Eorzea. Since the legend of Azim is popular with the Xaela, I'm also 99% sure that Azem had something to do with Solution 9.

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I noticed the similarities in my recent replay too, and I think the Xaela or whatever civilization predated them in that region definitely have a strong connection to Azem solely based on this dialogue from the Mol khatun:

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Originally Posted by Temulun Mol

You, wait. I would have words.
A singular radiance. Shimmering.
Like a jewel of the Dusk Mother, blinding in its brilliance.
Stars flicker and flock to you. Before such gathered light, even the secrets of the gods may be laid bare.
Some are fated to rise in grace and glory. Others to falter and fade, though not from memory. Both will be your strength and salvation come the end.
Cherish the stars and the light they bring you in the dark.
For you are a traveler, are you not?

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As far as I can tell, this is the first allusion to Azem in the MSQ. She also has this to say later:

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Originally Posted by Temulun Mol

The path laid by the gods is at an end, but there is another yet to be walked. By light radiant, born of a traveler's bonds. Seek and you will find. Go in hope and in grace.

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Originally Posted by Vallavia

I noticed the similarities in my recent replay too, and I think the Xaela or whatever civilization predated them in that region definitely have a strong connection to Azem solely based on this dialogue from the Mol khatun:

As far as I can tell, this is the first allusion to Azem in the MSQ. She also has this to say later:

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I had thought of this too; just to add (complete speculation):

(Some of) The Steppe people believe that their souls reincarnate, unless they go to the House of the Crooked Coin which takes their souls. From what we have seen in S9, they have some kind of "Soul Supply", which implies souls are...transferable? Able to be stored? Whatever the case, we already know this from our ability to transfer souls from the First back to the Source.

Azem (and/or Azeyma), the "Sun God", has places of worship just like the other gods (Azim Steppe, Qarn). City-states also tend to be related to a particular god (Gridania being Nophica, Ul'dah being Nald'thal, Halone Ishgard, llymlaen Limsa, Thaliak Sharlayan, Nym for Nymeia and Rhalgar for Ala Mhigo).

Based on typical Mesoamerican motifs and nomenclature from FFXIV, I -guess- that either Tuliyollal itself or the City of Gold is Azeyma's city. We have subtle connections I feel: "Dawn Father"; Sun and Gold being symbolically connected (Major symbolism in Mesoamerica, but also the alchemical symbol for "Gold" is the same Sun...the same symbol on our Azem crystal).

Now, all that said, I think if S9 were to be a "God's" city, it'd be Byregot, but the connection to Crooked Coin is intriguing and for it to be in Tural around/near the Gold city lends to lots of speculation. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Tuliyollal itself IS the city of gold (or built on top of it).

Of note, the other gods without cities to date are Althyk, Menphina and Oschon.
Also of note, the ancient cities (Amdapoor, Mhach, Gelmorra) that we know of largely evolved into other modern ones. We're not sure if they worshiped any one particular god over another.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I had thought of this too; just to add (complete speculation):

(Some of) The Steppe people believe that their souls reincarnate, unless they go to the House of the Crooked Coin which takes their souls. From what we have seen in S9, they have some kind of "Soul Supply", which implies souls are...transferable? Able to be stored? Whatever the case, we already know this from our ability to transfer souls from the First back to the Source.

Azem (and/or Azeyma), the "Sun God", has places of worship just like the other gods (Azim Steppe, Qarn). City-states also tend to be related to a particular god (Gridania being Nophica, Ul'dah being Nald'thal, Halone Ishgard, llymlaen Limsa, Thaliak Sharlayan, Nym for Nymeia and Rhalgar for Ala Mhigo).

Based on typical Mesoamerican motifs and nomenclature from FFXIV, I -guess- that either Tuliyollal itself or the City of Gold is Azeyma's city. We have subtle connections I feel: "Dawn Father"; Sun and Gold being symbolically connected (Major symbolism in Mesoamerica, but also the alchemical symbol for "Gold" is the same Sun...the same symbol on our Azem crystal).

Now, all that said, I think if S9 were to be a "God's" city, it'd be Byregot, but the connection to Crooked Coin is intriguing and for it to be in Tural around/near the Gold city lends to lots of speculation. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Tuliyollal itself IS the city of gold (or built on top of it).

Of note, the other gods without cities to date are Althyk, Menphina and Oschon.
Also of note, the ancient cities (Amdapoor, Mhach, Gelmorra) that we know of largely evolved into other modern ones. We're not sure if they worshiped any one particular god over another.

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I do think you're on to something, but I just wanted to point out for additional context that Belah'dia (and/or whatever ancient civilization previously built the temple at Qarn) held Azeyma as its patron (and Nym had Oschon, but that's less important). All of the cities with specific divine patrons are also exclusively in Eorzea and all worship the Twelve, so I doubt that a city in Tural would be dedicated to Azeyma specifically but rather the broader syncretic concept that spawned her and Azim, namely Azem themself (probably by a different name). We already know Azeyma's connection to Azem (anticlimactic and utterly uninteresting as it is), but we have yet to see what Azim's is, and like you said I think all of the sun imagery shown in promotional materials and in-game text combined with the matching House of the Crooked Coin design clear on the opposite end of the world is almost certainly a meaningful connection. Or they're just throwing out red herrings to generate community buzz, they've already done it once promoting this expansion...

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Azem (and/or Azeyma), the "Sun God", has places of worship just like the other gods (Azim Steppe, Qarn). City-states also tend to be related to a particular god (Gridania being Nophica, Ul'dah being Nald'thal, Halone Ishgard, llymlaen Limsa, Thaliak Sharlayan, Nym for Nymeia and Rhalgar for Ala Mhigo).

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Slight correction. Oschon is actually the patron deity of Nym. That's why the dungeon is called "The Wanderer's" Palace, as it's a place of worship for him. As far as we know, Nymeia hasn't had a city devoted to her.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

Ok, I'm replaying Stormblood with an alt and I'm 99% sure House of the Crooked Coin was built by the same civilization that built Solution 9. Same color, similar pattern. I think the one in Azim Steppe was destroyed by one of the calamities while the one in Tural survived because most calamities are centered around Eorzea. Since the legend of Azim is popular with the Xaela, I'm also 99% sure that Azem had something to do with Solution 9.

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I hate to burst this bubble, but Y'shtola directly said the House of the Crooked Coin was an Allagan thing used as part of the mechanism to launch Azys Lla. I think the only thing we're distracted by is the fact that it's purple, and Allagan stuff isn't normally purple--although I'd argue that Allag's general blue crystals and red tech aesthetics make the purple contraption in the Crooked Coin a decent midpoint. I actually don't think Solution Nine has any resemblance to the Crooked Coin at all outside of color scheme; the big difference to me is that the ornamentation is totally different.

This just seems like another instance of drawing architectural connections that aren't actually real, despite counter-evidence. Like when people thought the towers in the end of Shadowbringers where a Mhachi thing, despite people in-game saying they were Imperial and them not actually resembling Mhach's stuff all that much. Or also in the Endwalker leadup, when people were convinced Sharlayan was deeply connected to Amaurot, mainly because they couldn't tell the difference between Greco-Roman and Art Deco as styles. (That somehow came back when we saw the Aetherfont for the first time, which genuinely surprised me.)

I think as a playerbase, we're just not very good at architecture.

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Originally Posted by Vallavia

I do think you're on to something, but I just wanted to point out for additional context that Belah'dia (and/or whatever ancient civilization previously built the temple at Qarn) held Azeyma as its patron (and Nym had Oschon, but that's less important). All of the cities with specific divine patrons are also exclusively in Eorzea and all worship the Twelve, so I doubt that a city in Tural would be dedicated to Azeyma specifically but rather the broader syncretic concept that spawned her and Azim, namely Azem themself (probably by a different name). We already know Azeyma's connection to Azem (anticlimactic and utterly uninteresting as it is), but we have yet to see what Azim's is, and like you said I think all of the sun imagery shown in promotional materials and in-game text combined with the matching House of the Crooked Coin design clear on the opposite end of the world is almost certainly a meaningful connection. Or they're just throwing out red herrings to generate community buzz, they've already done it once promoting this expansion...

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There is some Azymea worship outside of Eorzea. Or at least was. The church like structure in Azys La is from Meracydia and has Azymea symbols on it.

The Amaurot connection was more so based on the nautilus spiral that Sharlyean has a lot as their motif and the occasional nautilus spiral that you'd see on the floor in Amaurot and I want to say one of the Anyders and not that there was confusion between art deco and Greco-Roman. Then there is also Elpis that has more of a closer Greco-Roman look than art deco and the Omphalos that also is Greco-Roman. The Machi aspect was more so due to them having a more organic, biological look that had a lot of black n purple. Where most Garlean stuff has none of those hallmarks. Garlean has mostly well the Ivory Standard as it's building colors that have a huge nod of brutalist architecture style with small hints of a very sentimental Amaurotine's touches.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

The Machi aspect was more so due to them having a more organic, biological look that had a lot of black n purple. Where most Garlean stuff has none of those hallmarks. Garlean has mostly well the Ivory Standard as it's building colors that have a huge nod of brutalist architecture style with small hints of a very sentimental Amaurotine's touches.

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While I admit this is largley helped out by hindsight--we now know exactly what the towers are, rather than just seeing them--I think their design makes sense as sort of a nightmarish parody of Garlean technology and buildings. There's the shared bio-organic nature, but especially from the outside, you can see them as sort of a twisted mockery of a Garlean alarm tower, built out of flesh and bone instead of metal and mortar. At the time that angle wasn't completely clear, but I do remember specifically running the Weeping City to get some comparative looks at their building style, and seeing that they had fundamentally different construction even if they shared some traits. Again, hindsight gives me the perspective to say that it feels like Mhach was built like that while the towers look like they grew like that.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I hate to burst this bubble, but Y'shtola directly said the House of the Crooked Coin was an Allagan thing used as part of the mechanism to launch Azys Lla. I think the only thing we're distracted by is the fact that it's purple, and Allagan stuff isn't normally purple--although I'd argue that Allag's general blue crystals and red tech aesthetics make the purple contraption in the Crooked Coin a decent midpoint. I actually don't think Solution Nine has any resemblance to the Crooked Coin at all outside of color scheme; the big difference to me is that the ornamentation is totally different.

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I don't agree that Y'shtola's opinion alone and its use by the Allagans rules out the connection entirely, as predictable as it would be it's entirely possible that there's some overlap between the Allagans and the mystery Solution Nine people. Agree to disagree on the resemblance, I don't even detect anything remotely Allagan or Solutionny about it solely via design (having just looked at it again more closely five minutes ago), which to me suggests that it's something that predates both the Allagans and the current civilization in Solution Nine in the present day.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

This just seems like another instance of drawing architectural connections that aren't actually real, despite counter-evidence. Like when people thought the towers in the end of Shadowbringers where a Mhachi thing, despite people in-game saying they were Imperial and them not actually resembling Mhach's stuff all that much. Or also in the Endwalker leadup, when people were convinced Sharlayan was deeply connected to Amaurot, mainly because they couldn't tell the difference between Greco-Roman and Art Deco as styles. (That somehow came back when we saw the Aetherfont for the first time, which genuinely surprised me.)

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To be fair, Sharlayan does have a pretty significant connection to the Ancients, namely Hydaelyn herself, and like Sanna said the Greek influences are overflowing in Elpis and Pandaemonium. The facade of the Baldesion Arsenal does bear a certain resemblance to some Amaurotine buildings, namely in the isolated decorative spiral on the top (you can see it most clearly if you compare to the Watcher's Palace on the moon), and I don't think fixating on the finer details of Deco design diminishes that. I still maintain that Sharlayan's connection to the Ancients goes even deeper, with the very conspicuous group shots of the Forum all clad in matching robes and veils mirroring scenes of gathered Ancients in flashbacks, but that's another thread.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

There is some Azymea worship outside of Eorzea. Or at least was. The church like structure in Azys La is from Meracydia and has Azymea symbols on it.

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This has actually been addressed in this thread, which explains essentially that the Cathedral was dedicated to Sephirot and that Eorzeans later appropriated the sun symbol the Meracydians used for him to represent Azeyma.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Slight correction. Oschon is actually the patron deity of Nym. That's why the dungeon is called "The Wanderer's" Palace, as it's a place of worship for him. As far as we know, Nymeia hasn't had a city devoted to her.

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Easy mistake to make! I "knew" that but didn't bother to refresh my memory because the names are so similar (NYMeia, right?) Thanks for the correction!

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Originally Posted by Vallavia

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I would hate to think it's just red herrings...but it could be :(

Of course I didn't mention, but it should be noted that outside of Eorzea religions don't necessarily follow the 12. Dalmasca specifically has a different system entirely..so it's possible Turali religion might not match anything we've come to know whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Anteiron

Emet Selch says at the end of Endwalker: "Some of che civilizazion in the reflections will surprise you"

So I think Solution 9 comes from another reflection. The other worlds have not had calamities, so it is likely that their civilization has advanced to a very high technological level.
The problem is how it arrive to the source

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At this stage with all the FF9 references they're pulling right now expecially with the preorder items of Zidane/Garnet, the ark mount etc, I'd bet money at this stage on Solution 9 being from another shard originally, likely a destroyed one. It's not only the most logical explanation of how an advanced civilization would be on the source that's NOT Allag in origin and not already destroyed after 7 Calamities but also the only one that would have any reasonable sense, not to mention being how remote and out of the way it is, why the Ascians had not used it in the first place instead of Garlemald for their last world wrecking scheme. There's also the small fact that Y'shtola has been looking to unlock the secrets of travelling to other shards and between what they dropped in the post endwalker quests with how to travel between the 13th and Source as well as the fact we still have the ability to travel between the Source and 1st thanks to G'raha allowing us to attune to the Firsts aether network it's a given that this is how the other remaining shards eventually are accessed as well as bringing the first back into the narrative in some form later on.

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Originally Posted by Vallavia

This has actually been addressed in this thread, which explains essentially that the Cathedral was dedicated to Sephirot and that Eorzeans later appropriated the sun symbol the Meracydians used for him to represent Azeyma.

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That’s not what that says.

That thing you linked says that the sun/Azeyma symbol the Allagans and the Meracydians used has the same origin that spread the symbol across the globe. The Allagans didn’t take that symbol from them.

In 1.0 there were Allagan runestones that would drop from leves or something that had the symbols of the Twelve on them and they could be traded in for special gear that gave an achievement when you equipped them all (I think the gear and achievements still exist). Considering that the Allagans eventually forsook religion and Meracydia wasn’t conquered until near the very end of the era, these runestones probably date to before Allag even knew Meracydia existed. So like that link says, the symbol for Azeyma has been around in both cultures before both cultures met.

The thing the Allagans did appropriate were the squiggly line runic patterns on some of the stonework around the temple.

The sun symbol has a shared origin for both civilizations, but it’s the other random runes that the Belah’dians mistakenly associated with Azeyma that are solely Meracydian yet show up in Qarn due to being copied from Allagan ruins which were copied from Meracydia. But all the symbols for the Twelve have been unchanged since the early Allag empire at the very least, if not well before that.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Easy mistake to make! I "knew" that but didn't bother to refresh my memory because the names are so similar (NYMeia, right?) Thanks for the correction!

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No problem, it is confusing. Like where did the name come from, if the worship Oschon? I only remember, because as a Scholar, I have to. Otherwise the Tonberries will hunt me down, and do unspeakable things to me. And I don't wanna go to another lecture about rancor, lol.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

It's not only the most logical explanation of how an advanced civilization would be on the source that's NOT Allag in origin and not already destroyed after 7 Calamities but also the only one that would have any reasonable sense,

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My counterargument to this theory is one word:

Bozja.

Bozja didn't just survive the calamity that killed Allag, it survived every single one afterwards, too. Most of the Far East seemed to survive them, in fact, but Bozja's a good one to highlight because they weren't exactly a superpower with a lot of ways to survive major disasters; in fact, they're kind of a mess. The Calamities aren't actually global, the Ascians just kept cooking them up on Eorzea to the point where they were marking the calendar by them; by the time you get to Othard, they're a blip. How hard they hit Ilsabard is a mystery, but Tural is much further out than that.

I find it absolutely unsurprising that a civilization in Tural could've just... survived a few Calamities with no more knowledge of them than 'those guys over the pond blew themselves up again'. Especially one as advanced as Solution Nine And that's even putting aside that all our evidence that they are super-old is circumstantial to the point where I don't necessarily buy it.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

I'd bet money at this stage on Solution 9 being from another shard originally, likely a destroyed one. It's not only the most logical explanation of how an advanced civilization would be on the source that's NOT Allag in origin and not already destroyed after 7 Calamities but also the only one that would have any reasonable sense

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You're assuming that an advanced civilisation has to be ancient. It does not.

For that matter, we still don't even definitely know whether it is actually "advanced" or just suited to its location in a way that reads as advanced to us but might just look mystical to the characters.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

My counterargument to this theory is one word:

Bozja.

Bozja didn't just survive the calamity that killed Allag, it survived every single one afterwards, too. Most of the Far East seemed to survive them, in fact, but Bozja's a good one to highlight because they weren't exactly a superpower with a lot of ways to survive major disasters; in fact, they're kind of a mess. The Calamities aren't actually global, the Ascians just kept cooking them up on Eorzea to the point where they were marking the calendar by them; by the time you get to Othard, they're a blip. How hard they hit Ilsabard is a mystery, but Tural is much further out than that.

I find it absolutely unsurprising that a civilization in Tural could've just... survived a few Calamities with no more knowledge of them than 'those guys over the pond blew themselves up again'. Especially one as advanced as Solution Nine And that's even putting aside that all our evidence that they are super-old is circumstantial to the point where I don't necessarily buy it.

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This raises a point for wild speculation:.

Assuming Tural was largely unaffected by Eorzean calamities, and had their irregular “wtf, they blew themselves up again” moments/recorded history, the recent crisis with citizens turning into blasphemies could very well be seen as “omg wtf did they do THiS time??”.

Even though it wasn’t our fault, some in Tural might use it as justification for sending an army.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

This raises a point for wild speculation:.

Assuming Tural was largely unaffected by Eorzean calamities, and had their irregular “wtf, they blew themselves up again” moments/recorded history, the recent crisis with citizens turning into blasphemies could very well be seen as “omg wtf did they do THiS time??”.

Even though it wasn’t our fault, some in Tural might use it as justification for sending an army.

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I doubt this is true just because I get the idea that the Turalians probably wouldn't blame us for what seemed to be a worldwide tragedy (it's worth noting that they do have contact with Limsa so they wouldn't be totally blind to us), I do like the notion of someone's response to it being 'Okay it was PROBABLY you guys, what the hell'.

The world map is always rather vague about marked location placements. From memory Ul'dah is further south than it should be and it generally seems a bit artistic over informational.