Genuine Question Here

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Originally Posted by thevanguard

I can't believe I'm saying this but VelKallor probably actually contributes to game discussion in a thoughtful way more than 80% of the people in this thread who basically never discuss anything and just participate in drama threads or post some meme lmao

If we replace you people with 50 aveyonds and 50 VelKallors the forum quality will unironically go up

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The duality of humanity.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

People shouldn't be name-calling like that for a difference of opinion. That said, your last sentence seems to imply that you think it's not possible to understand your point of view and still disagree. You sound like the only way someone can show they understand your point of view is by agreeing with it. Again, attacks are uncalled for. But insisting on agreement as acknowledgment of your point of view may tell you why you're getting push back on it.

As to the OP, why should anyone care if one side or the other does want dissent to leave? That's not the point of a forum intended for open discussion.

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I am not advoocating for them "switching sides" or any such thing. More them saying "Both sides may have some bit of rightness in this" I won't name names, but some of the quote unquote "lore hounds" on this forum can't admit they might be wrong even when they are shown canon sources that support our point and that is a problem.

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Originally Posted by thevanguard

I can't believe I'm saying this but VelKallor probably actually contributes to game discussion in a thoughtful way more than 80% of the people in this thread who basically never discuss anything and just participate in drama threads or post some meme lmao

If we replace you people with 50 aveyonds and 50 VelKallors the forum quality will unironically go up

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Rofl. How bout you just take a brief gander at your own post history. 90 percent drama, maybe more. Including the very comment I quoted.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I think you completely miss the point of the question. It's not a question of people caring about others leaving...its the fact that it would seem counterpoints are drowning out what people feel are game issues. Some claiming theyre being silenced so I'm asking if these folks would prefer those who don't share their view to leave. And if not how do we find a compromise of fairness in how we go about our feedback. You're on a whole different thought plain

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They're not being silenced, though. We hear from them all the time. Why is any sort of compromise necessary besides everyone behaving like adults and debating civilly without resorting to name-calling and agreeing to disagree if someone doesn't share their view?

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

I am not advoocating for them "switching sides" or any such thing. More them saying "Both sides may have some bit of rightness in this" I won't name names, but some of the quote unquote "lore hounds" on this forum can't admit they might be wrong even when they are shown canon sources that support our point and that is a problem.

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What if they don't feel that? You don't want their honesty. You just want them to say what you want them to say. It is possible to view the same content and have differing viewpoints on it.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Rofl. How bout you just take a brief gander at your own post history. 90 percent drama, maybe more. Including the very comment I quoted.

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lol what kind of gotcha is that? i'm literally here just for drama. your post history though is full of shitposts like these

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Too bad for you, I have quite high reading comprehension. It's why I tested in the top 1% of the country for my law school exams.

Under your logic, nobody asked and nobody cares when people bring up their opinions of what's wrong with the game either. The trend of people telling others "nobody asked, nobody cares" on this forum is unproductive and outright rude.

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you though, 90% of your posts are "omg this forum is so toxic i blocked everyone" then the next post you're talking about forum drama and replying to people you """blocked"""

Oh and + "omg this forum is so toxic I'm quitting then next day you make 10 posts in a drama thread

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Originally Posted by thevanguard

lol what kind of gotcha is that? i'm literally here just for drama. your post history though is full of shitposts like these



you though, 90% of your posts are "omg this forum is so toxic i blocked everyone" then the next post you're talking about forum drama and replying to people you """blocked"""

Oh and + "omg this forum is so toxic I'm quitting then next day you make 10 posts in a drama thread

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I never said I’m quitting. I said I post less often. Learn to read. You’re quite bad at it. I also didn’t post ten times in this thread in one day. Learn to count. Sorry I can’t be bothered to look up and block all your endless alts in advance. You simply aren’t that important to me any longer. I see you for what you are. A nuisance and likely sad individual. I hope one day you find more happiness and meaning than annoying the small number of people who use a video game forum.

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Oh In case it’s not clear since you can’t seem to follow or understand, you posted “you people” as though you somehow were separate from the problem. You are not. You admit to it here while pretending in the post I quoted that you aren’t. In fact you are singularly responsible for the most drama here. It’s why I won’t post in your threads anymore. So it’s laughable you pretended to be on a soapbox about it while excluding your role in it all. That’s the gotcha. Happy now?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

They're not being silenced, though. We hear from them all the time. Why is any sort of compromise necessary besides everyone behaving like adults and debating civilly without resorting to name-calling and agreeing to disagree if someone doesn't share their view?.

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Well if you haven't noticed folks simply being civil isn't in the cards for the place. It'd be nice just to have that but It doesn't seem feasible, at least without more moderation. So I simply asked a question of different possible avenues. I asked this, others suggest shutting the forums down for a time. Some suggest super strict moderation.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

That’s the gotcha. Happy now?

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You're only making it worse by continuing to address him.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

You have requoted that about 7 or 8 times now? Something I posted once months ago? Get over your obsession with me.

And I'm not mad. I think you are probably the most revolting, unappealing person desparately grasping for what little attention you can get out of anyone - the best you can do is random people on a gaming forum. Sad. So why would I be mad again?



Don't care anymore, really. I'm not going to tiptoe around this person just because of responses like this. I already avoid his threads, I'm not even willing to be one of those people who bump all of his threads with "oh your feeding him" comments that he gets every time. He's insignificant.

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You may not care but I do. You're derailing the thread and I kindly ask you to take that elsewhere. Doesn't matter if I partially agree with you or not. I have to be consistent. You say he's insignificant yet you keep wasting time talking to him. Makes no sense

To address your next post. I already addressed him earlier and plan to no longer engage. Your "aren't you derailing by calling me out on derailing" is just deflection. Let's not do that here please...

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Originally Posted by thevanguard

If we replace you people with 50 aveyonds and 50 VelKallors the forum quality will unironically go up

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Oh god, please no. A world with FIFTY VelKallors is a world not worth living in. One is bad enough.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

I am not advoocating for them "switching sides" or any such thing. More them saying "Both sides may have some bit of rightness in this" I won't name names, but some of the quote unquote "lore hounds" on this forum can't admit they might be wrong even when they are shown canon sources that support our point and that is a problem.

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I've been on the lore forum in the past and this assessment is correct.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

You're only making it worse by continuing to address him.

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True.

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Originally Posted by thevanguard

The difference, Mr. 174 LSAT, is that I enjoy the drama while you pretend you don't while replying to drama over and over again.

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The drama is entertaining...

Pray carry on with your mission good sir.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

The drama is entertaining...
Pray carry on with your mission good sir.

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And this is why it never stops.
Because it is encouraged and Rewarded.
lol

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Would those who have issues with the game in its current state prefer those who don't share said issues leave these forums? Ive seen alot of talk of you guys being silenced n such by these people and them being the reason the game is in an apparent decline. So I ask this just to see what the opinion on that is. Would you guys prefer if the space was more for just negative feedback?

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To help steer it back onto topic I'll chip in.

I would say GD should be a neutral zone. Tell what you like/love and also what you dislike/hate. If it was only a place of praise...there would be no feedback on what actually isn't so great and there will be no suggestions to make things better. If it was a place of just negative feedback alone then it just becomes a place where...well...it becomes 4chan.

Is the game good? Yes it is. Is it the best? Nope. I had fun playing other MMOs that are sadly just dead MMOs. Why do I still play? I kinda don't right now? What would I like to see? The zones outside the cities actually mean something. There is just a ton of mobs I flat out ignore. I just ride/fly right by them. Hunts are a good idea but the get put down so fast it is more a train and less a hunt. You have arrived at your destination. Time to go to a new destination.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Would those who have issues with the game in its current state prefer those who don't share said issues leave these forums? Ive seen alot of talk of you guys being silenced n such by these people and them being the reason the game is in an apparent decline. So I ask this just to see what the opinion on that is. Would you guys prefer if the space was more for just negative feedback?

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any forum that is just one side or the other is not a forum, its an echo chamber, and as such, is useless for feedback good or bad.

they should get rid of general, replace it with a feedback category, that does not allow comments. maybe like and dislike if they want some form of tracking on it, but zero discussion.

if they want to retain general, then the need to start actively moderating it. as it stands now, General is useless for feedback and is a swamp. people posting here in good faith from either angle, are setting themselves up for attacks and having the thread demolished for the sake of one side or another. "the game is great" you get attacked for being disingenuous or being a shill, SE employee or what have you. "game is awful" you get attacked for why are you playing? go play something else etc. and you cannot ignore that recently the place is a troll/necro thread heaven.

a feedback section if SE actually wants that would be ideal, and a properly moderated general. in my thinking, thats the only solution.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Would those who have issues with the game in its current state prefer those who don't share said issues leave these forums? Ive seen alot of talk of you guys being silenced n such by these people and them being the reason the game is in an apparent decline. So I ask this just to see what the opinion on that is. Would you guys prefer if the space was more for just negative feedback?

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https://i.ibb.co/HHMmJ70/kaiten.pnghttps://i.ibb.co/Q67vX04/X.gif https://i.ibb.co/HHMmJ70/kaiten.png

" Hissatsu: Kaiten "... that will be all.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

any forum that is just one side or the other is not a forum, its an echo chamber, and as such, is useless for feedback good or bad.

they should get rid of general, replace it with a feedback category, that does not allow comments. maybe like and dislike if they want some form of tracking on it, but zero discussion.

if they want to retain general, then the need to start actively moderating it. as it stands now, General is useless for feedback and is a swamp. people posting here in good faith from either angle, are setting themselves up for attacks and having the thread demolished for the sake of one side or another. "the game is great" you get attacked for being disingenuous or being a shill, SE employee or what have you. "game is awful" you get attacked for why are you playing? go play something else etc. and you cannot ignore that recently the place is a troll/necro thread heaven.

a feedback section if SE actually wants that would be ideal, and a properly moderated general. in my thinking, thats the only solution.

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Totally agree, on all counts.

On the topic of moderation, whilst I completely agree that some moderation would be useful, there is a line that is too easy for those with the moderator tools to cross too.

Speaking from experience, some game CMs and/or forum moderators are very easily offended and all too willing to produce the 'ban-hammer' for even the most minor of negative comments about their game.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

On the topic of moderation, whilst I completely agree that some moderation would be useful, there is a line that is too easy for those with the moderator tools to cross too.

Speaking from experience, some game CMs and/or forum moderators are very easily offended and all too willing to produce the 'ban-hammer' for even the most minor of negative comments about their game.

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Being honest I think we could do for a bit of overmoderation for a bit. Would help keep posts such as the one above yours from being posted (and thats on both sides). Place has been the wild west for years.

Everyone's in favour of heavy moderation thinking that all the trolls will be gone, until one day you or your friend is hit with a permanent ban for a minor offence. Best be careful what you wish for.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Everyone's in favour of heavy moderation thinking that all the trolls will be gone, until one day you or your friend is hit with a permanent ban for a minor offence. Best be careful what you wish for.

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I been on these forums since 2.X and that's exactly what happened back then. There was a boycott of the forums back then over it cause people's friends were getting banned. I remember there being a couple people who were getting 20 - 30 likes per post, and for lack of a better term, had simps following them. Then one day they got banned for reasons that were never really made aware. Then it happened to two or three more equally fan favorited people and then the forums started to not be taken as seriously after that. The forum echo chamber has always been here, it's just shifted into other directions over the years. But back when we did have moderation, there were other problems with the forums we were dealing with.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Everyone's in favour of heavy moderation thinking that all the trolls will be gone, until one day you or your friend is hit with a permanent ban for a minor offence. Best be careful what you wish for.

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If it means a more healthy forum in return then so be it. Keyword IF ofc. Cause as of right now what we have going on isn't working

People usually seem more concerned with antagonizing each other than actually contributing much to most threads. It baffles me.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I been on these forums since 2.X and that's exactly what happened back then. There was a boycott of the forums back then over it cause people's friends were getting banned. I remember there being a couple people who were getting 20 - 30 likes per post, and for lack of a better term, had simps following them. Then one day they got banned for reasons that were never really made aware. Then it happened to two or three more equally fan favorited people and then the forums started to not be taken as seriously after that. The forum echo chamber has always been here, it's just shifted into other directions over the years. But back when we did have moderation, there were other problems with the forums we were dealing with.

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Sad fact is, they're not really under any obligation to inform anyone they whack with the ban-hammer why they did so.

I mean, I was banned from the forum of a game I used to play - I was never informed why, but its more than fair to assume it was because I had the audacity to criticize the CM for producing, over a period of eight years, poor quality and badly written, blogs full of spelling mistakes and incorrect dates (as said CM would copy-paste text from older blogs but fail to amend the dates) and url links that didn't work. I guess it also didn't help that I said he didn't deserve the promotion he received too, since it was a clear-cut case of failing upwards. I did at least neglect to comment on how easily offended he was during the Livestreams he did, and how sarcastic and insulting he responses often were - but eitherway, said criticism earned me a permaban on that game's forum.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

If it means a more healthy forum in return then so be it. Keyword IF ofc. Cause as of right now what we have going on isn't working

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Oh I agree that the forums aren't exactly a pleasant place at this moment. But having been around since the ARR/HW era, I saw that heavy moderation comes with its own set of problems. Perhaps it's preferable to what we have now, perhaps not. We could really do with some moderation though.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Oh I agree that the forums aren't exactly a pleasant place at this moment. But having been around since the ARR/HW era, I saw that heavy moderation comes with its own set of problems. Perhaps it's preferable to what we have now, perhaps not. We could really do with some moderation though.

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Well part of the problem that we have now is people don't report enough. Yes you should either block or ignore those who you're not going to have a discussion with as they'd rather be rude or whatever. But some problems won't stop or happen less unless the mods get shown that we will do more than just gripe about problematic posters and hope that they'll some day get banned. When I say problematic posters I'm talking about our "beloved" troll and their alts.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

If it means a more healthy forum in return then so be it. Keyword IF ofc. Cause as of right now what we have going on isn't working

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Whilst I agree that things are not great here, we do at least get to 'speak' our minds. Again, whilst not keen on 'whataboutisms', the game forum I was (per my post previous to this one) banned from was ridiculous - the moderators had a FCT (Frequently Created Threads) 'policy' - namely, some topics (for example Gamble/Lootboxes) were literally NOT up for discussion and the mods there would delete any thread pertaining to them and issue a warning to the thread creator. And they had absolutely NO tolerance for negative commentary on their game whatsoever.

There is a vast amount of territory that lies between the extremes of no moderation and over-moderation.

Rarely does anyone ever agree with a lot of my takes, but compared to reddit I at least feel heard here by other posters. Reddit's downvote system is so trash. You either are a part of the hivemind or you aren't.

What I'd really like to know is why don't content creators ever post on these forums? How come we never see things like the Fashion Report and Raid Guides among other things posted here?

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Whilst I agree that things are not great here, we do at least get to 'speak' our minds. Again, whilst not keen on 'whataboutisms', the game forum I was (per my post previous to this one) banned from was ridiculous - the moderators had a FCT (Frequently Created Threads) 'policy' - namely, some topics (for example Gamble/Lootboxes) were literally NOT up for discussion and the mods there would delete any thread pertaining to them and issue a warning to the thread creator. And they had absolutely NO tolerance for negative commentary on their game whatsoever.

There is a vast amount of territory that lies between the extremes of no moderation and over-moderation.

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Guess I could see how things could spiral there. The unfortunate thing is if we did get more moderation certain folks are armed and ready to abuse it against folks they don't like. Exhibit A above you is a clear example.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

Rarely does anyone ever agree with a lot of my takes, but compared to reddit I at least feel heard here by other posters. Reddit's downvote system is so trash. You either are a part of the hivemind or you aren't.

What I'd really like to know is why don't content creators ever post on these forums? How come we never see things like the Fashion Report and Raid Guides among other things posted here?

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Simple. Because the place is toxic. Same reason why devs aren't in here. I'd say this place is on the same wave as reddit. The only "leg up" it has is its more positive. You'll still get dog piled in both places if people perceive you a certain way. You can't be genuine here cause a certain sect of folks will clown on you (see the start of this thread). I'd imagine content creators want n part of it.

Ikara - the Internet does no forget (not that there is any need to considering this is the only thread you've made in a while).

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Originally Posted by Noumenon

Ikara - the Internet does no forget (not that there is any need to considering this is the only thread you've made in a while).

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What exactly was the point behind necro'ing this thread?

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

What exactly was the point behind necro'ing this thread?

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I feel like your signature answers that question.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

What exactly was the point behind necro'ing this thread?

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He's been necroing drama threads all day. I'll give you one guess who that would be.