Give me your most unhinged Job take that you still genuinely believe in.

Maybe unhinged.

Difficulty aside, the current Summoner is far better than the predecessor DoT simulator, with the current arguably being much closer to what the identity of a 'summoner' just might be.

DRK should have had something more interesting done with its Darkside instead of being literally WAR's Surging Tempest. They gutted the job by making it literally WAR but with a greatsword. Delirium is way too similar to Inner Release, Bloodspiller to Fell Cleave and the Bloodgauge to the Beastgauge.

At least on WAR you have some kit cohesion as in you wanna get as much Beastgauge as possible so you do as much Fell Cleave as possible which reduces your Infuriate cooldown, and you can somewhat buff Shake it off with your defensive cooldowns.

DRK on the other hand has just these completely disoriented and self contained cooldowns that just do damage and that's it. They even double downed on that idea in EW by not giving it anything to separate it from WAR more than "DRK is basically WAR but with oGCDs on top" / "WAR is basically DRK but with fewer oGCDs and healing instead of shielding".

I have seen so many cool ideas on the DRK megathread that it will make me quit the game if all we get next expansion is a new oGCD and some upgrades that change nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

Is there anything remotely positive in the job system, apart from being able to change on the fly? Your exact rotation is unclear until you look it up online, nobody knows which gear to pursue until someone calculates it. Rotations are so prone to desync that you literally have to use tools to sync your framerate/network to achieve proper performance. Your rotation changes when you scale down, and all jobs have the same positional penalty that exists merely to spice up the otherwise dull rotation. Ranged jobs always have something in their rotation that requires them to stand still for an excessive amount of time or move into melee range, and there's always at least one ability with a cast bar. Please, tell me one thing that is genuinely enjoyable and well designed in the current jobs.

---

Man i wish phys range (or just mch) had abilities that had a cast bare :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rymi64

This goes back into people being dumb and not the jobs being the problem there. There's always going to be a meta but if there's a big discrepancy like there was in like HW thats when there's problems, which is why i said its the 2 minute being the main problem

---

Ironically the first problem led to the 2nd. People pulled this back in HW and SB, which is what led to ShB and EW. The playerbase has caused this, and now must accept the fact that they're the ones responsible for creating this monster.

DoL and DoH jobs are actually OP in combat which is why retainers on those jobs solo content intended for 8 players.

I find the simple mono-button mashing play style of healers to be the answer to a problem I've been having:

It uplifts my melatonin levels to make it acceptable for my brain to engage in dream-seeking meditation.

In other words, FFXIV has a free sleeping aid baked into their game design! Bless our dev-overlords and thank the Twelve!

DRK should be an HP resource based tank (almost a drain tank almost) with emphasis on shielding and a little less lifesteal like cutting out abyssal drain or something (might actually make healers more engaging as well kek)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Ironically the first problem led to the 2nd. People pulled this back in HW and SB, which is what led to ShB and EW. The playerbase has caused this, and now must accept the fact that they're the ones responsible for creating this monster.

---

I see this take a lot, and it makes me conjure up the hypothetical opposite scenario; What if jobs hadn't been homogenized, and the Heavensward-Stormblood meta stuck around? Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I miss about FF14's design from that era. I also remember job "balance" being something like
Job A and Job B compete for a slot. Do they have unique advantages that make both attractive in different scenarios? Lmfao keep dreaming, Job A is just superior to B in every way because they made the utility-heavy jobs also the highest damage output ones, and Chopped Liver over here has like one "advantage" that XIV's combat system doesn't care about in the slightest.
Not accusing you of anything, and I'd rather not be uncharitable. This "focusing on balance leads to homogenization!" take has the ring of truth to it. I'd caution that taking the opposite tack also smacks of "why couldn't you plebeian strictly-worse jobs have just accepted the permanent utility-job superiority meta so we could all have fun!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

I see this take a lot, and it makes me conjure up the hypothetical opposite scenario; What if jobs hadn't been homogenized, and the Heavensward-Stormblood meta stuck around? Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I miss about FF14's design from that era. I also remember job "balance" being something like
Job A and Job B compete for a slot. Do they have unique advantages that make both attractive in different scenarios? Lmfao keep dreaming, Job A is just superior to B in every way because they made the utility-heavy jobs also the highest damage output ones, and Chopped Liver over here has like one "advantage" that XIV's combat system doesn't care about in the slightest.
Not accusing you of anything, and I'd rather not be uncharitable. This "focusing on balance leads to homogenization!" take has the ring of truth to it. I'd caution that taking the opposite tack also smacks of "why couldn't you plebeian strictly-worse jobs have just accepted the permanent utility-job superiority meta so we could all have fun!"

---

That's part of the issue. If you look at the metas for both HW and SB, there was always at least 1 job from every role type that was unloved and unwanted, simply because the others did it that much better. Ranged, Casters, Melee, Tanks, Healers...there was always at least one left out in the cold for each type.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

That's part of the issue. If you look at the metas for both HW and SB, there was always at least 1 job from every role type that was unloved and unwanted, simply because the others did it that much better. Ranged, Casters, Melee, Tanks, Healers...there was always at least one left out in the cold for each type.

---

And instead of bumping those jobs up, SE decided to drag everyone else down. Sure, some things needed adjustments in order to give a more leveled playing field but SE took it to the extreme and just made the gameplay overall less engaging as a result

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

And instead of bumping those jobs up, SE decided to drag everyone else down. Sure, some things needed adjustments in order to give a more leveled playing field but SE took it to the extreme and just made the gameplay overall less engaging as a result

---

The problem is how some of the jobs were. Look at NIN, TA was the main reason why it was taken constantly. Had TA been given to another DPS, if their damage had been any higher NIN would have been pushed out because the other DPS would have been better due to higher damage. If the other job did lower damage, NIN still would have been taken. That's the problem with the meta, it min/maxes things, so ANY discrepancy can lead to a job being dropped from the meta. If a job didn't have anything that aligned properly with the rest of the party's burst, they were also dropped. So the devs decided to give everybody a 2m burst window to make the playerbase knock it off...which has led to...well, complaints about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

And instead of bumping those jobs up, SE decided to drag everyone else down. Sure, some things needed adjustments in order to give a more leveled playing field but SE took it to the extreme and just made the gameplay overall less engaging as a result

---

Therein is the problem: "bumping those jobs up" doesn't solve the issue at hand. When you have jobs with utility and jobs without, what do you get? Heavensward and Stormblood. You have an upper class of jobs that is just better in every way. Their numbers are high and their utility is great. Then you have the Chopped Liver jobs: the ones whose numbers are fine and....that's all they do. Numbers.

Oldschool singleplayer RPGs at least understood that a jack of all trades had to give something up for it; if you have a class that can do everything and is also good at everything, that's basically the definition of overpowered. And if you "bump up" the non-utility jobs, you know exactly what happens. The "more complex" job mains screech and moan that they deserve the higher output for being "harder". You can't win. I think there's room for a game that's designed with different jobs, that have different strengths, that get catered to by different content.

But FFXIV isn't that game, because all the combat system cares about is damage. Because Squeenix thinks it's okay to have a divide between utilityless baby jobs and "complex" jobs stuffed to bursting with utility, while also thinking it's possible to balance that out. I want the variety of Heavensward back, but I don't want the boring landscape where you had 8 jobs that were just flat better than the others. At the very least I've heard WoW tends to shake up jobs every expansion instead of FFXIV's "and the bland utilityless no-frills job continues to be bland and designed for novices. Oh no, how is it possible that we have a super clear meta that was obvious from the get-go, how could this have been? Who could have predicted that the jobs we designed to be good at everything were...good at everything?"

This is some basic class balance stuff that XIV refuses. There is a third way that isn't Everyone Is Homogenized or Haha Eat It Non-Utility Jobs, We're Just Better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Ironically the first problem led to the 2nd. People pulled this back in HW and SB, which is what led to ShB and EW. The playerbase has caused this, and now must accept the fact that they're the ones responsible for creating this monster.

---

Yes, but the second you say that on the forum people get angry. Yes, your number slaving caused quite a lot of this. lol Are people any happier here? Doesn't seem like it. Time to go back to more unbalanced but fun job design.

I still believe my job will be implemented:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitpostXIV...pers_hate_him/

Remove Healer Role from the game and give everyone barely enough self sustain to survive if played correctly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

Yes, but the second you say that on the forum people get angry. Yes, your number slaving caused quite a lot of this. lol Are people any happier here? Doesn't seem like it. Time to go back to more unbalanced but fun job design.

---

Unlikely since the devs outright admitted they were not going to ever go back to HW job design. All we can really do is blame the meta slaves for this one, and hope they at least return to the SB buff timer differences.

SB Cover wasn't that broken. Bring it back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Maybe unhinged.

Difficulty aside, the current Summoner is far better than the predecessor DoT simulator, with the current arguably being much closer to what the identity of a 'summoner' just might be.

---

I like current summoner way more than previous version of it. I don't care what other people say.