The Definition of "Handsome"

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Originally Posted by ronibosch

Everyone keeps picking either pretty boys or rugged men, but I'm over here thinking, "¿Por qué no los dos?"

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Big brain time.

They all lack anything really defining as people usually have defining features (freckles, moles, unique lip shape, cheekbones, nose shapes etc) These characters lack those defining features & if it weren't for their outfits or writing, would be forgettable visually- they just have VERY slender faces. Like anime faces brought to life- if we saw someone like that irl, they'd look feaky
I can't get over how ugly the protagonist is in the new FF game & his hair looks like a toupee
There is nothing mannish about any of these characters- just boyish.

thancred imo is "handsome" but he has defined realistic features albeit a tad generic, But he doesn't have the strange alien head these characters do.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The closest would be I don't find boyish/feminine men attractive, but that has more to do with me being an adult.

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and that's your standard as an adult.
Something you use as a base to find whether something is attractive or not.
And that's fine.
Just as fine as other people who think otherwise.
As I said, it takes all kinds.

I wondered if this is a male or female character because I saw both in it. But then the Npcs spoke of 'her'. And so my conclusion was, that it seems to be a girl.

I knew it was a female from the start. Look at the face its feminine. I don’t really see her as genderless at all.

Its like how the faeries are obviously women to. But the writers went weird with it.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Opposed to what? With that many adjectives, you're not leaving much else. Unless you find boyish/girly men attractive?

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Look what I find or don't find attractive isn't of anyone's concern, but this thread seems to indicate that more feminine or even just anything that is not bearded and scarred to hell and back is not a man and not attractive in any way. That is what I take issue with. SE can put whatever kind of men they want in the game and being more or less feminine does not make them less or more of a man. Also, pretty sure this is a troll thread that you took way too seriously.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

I knew it was a female from the start. Look at the face its feminine. I don’t really see her as genderless at all.

Its like how the faeries are obviously women to. But the writers went weird with it.

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Honestly, I found the fairies to be distinctly androgynous. Certainly far more than Zero.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

Honestly, I found the fairies to be distinctly androgynous. Certainly far more than Zero.

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Yeah, the faeries gave me a somewhat David Bowie vibe as well.
Besides a feminine face doesn't tell me much imo. I wouldn't be surprised if someone thought it was more genderless.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

While this is probably true, japanese artists also codified an entire genre of hyper-masculine art. (mostly geared towards gay men) So it's not entirely black and white.

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Yeah, true. I'm BL enjoyer and occasional bara enjoyer [-- mainly because western interwebs puts it all in the same basket like: "oh, it got males loving and sexing males? gay, it's all just gay!"].

I just guess the design choices come to and from marketability. You want to give the posterpeople of the big media thing a good looking face -- buuut not too unique. Hurts the mass market appeal.

WEST vs JP

I have no good suggestions to this problem, since I don't really feel at all that something would be horribly wrong in current state of things.
My formative years were saturated with JP media so I am not too shy to admit that I prefer the JP beauty standards more than not when it comes to video games and animations and nerdy things generally.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

"oh, it got males loving and sexing males? gay, it's all just gay!"

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If I was a /r/subredditdrama person, this could be a decent flair.

While more variety would be welcome, FFs have a history, since the beginning, of prioritizing male figures with androgynous or pretty boy visage.

Well, Cid is handsome... don't nobody better say nothing bad about Cid!!

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

While more variety would be welcome, FFs have a history, since the beginning, of prioritizing male figures with androgynous or pretty boy visage.

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For the main character maybe, but FFXIV is actually one of the very few exceptions where all male members of the main cast are in that category (FFVIII is the only other exception).

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

For the main character maybe, but FFXIV is actually one of the very few exceptions where all male members of the main cast are in that category (FFVIII is the only other exception).

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Considering the concept art for characters are done by Yoshitaka Amano from 1 all the way to 6, who is known for his style of depicting the males in very gentle and effeminate faces, I beg to differ. In 6 the exceptions are few and far between with only 3 characters known not to fall into that category. In 7 only Cid and Barret are more "traditionally manly" looking. In 8 arguably nobody who is playable is exempt from the pretty boy style Nomura went with. In X you might have a case with Wakka and Auron. XII is better balanced, XIII not so much, and XV falls right back into the usual.

My point isn't that there shouldn't be more rugged men in XIV's main cast but that the current lack of variety is to be expected. I definitely got tired of the pretty boy tendecies of the series so the poster Warrior of Light and the dude from XVI are great examples of what would be welcome. Just want to set this straight before I'm lumped with anyone labeled as "white knight".

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Considering the concept art for characters are done by Yoshitaka Amano from 1 all the way to 6, who is known for his style of depicting the males in very gentle and effeminate faces, I beg to differ.

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FFII had Leon and Guy, FFIV Yang, Cid, Fusoya and Tellah and FFV Galuf (they do have the unfortunate trend of.. not being there at the end of the game, I'll give you that)

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In 7 only Cid and Barret are more "traditionally manly" looking.

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The rest are Cloud, Vincent, Cait Sith and Red XIII. One is a furry and even Cait Sith couldn't be said to be the standard androgynous pretty boy since his owner is Reeve.

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XV falls right back into the usual.

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Well, Gladio is just one exception still, but I wish FFXIV even had that.

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My point isn't that there shouldn't be more rugged men in XIV's main cast but that the current lack of variety is to be expected. I definitely got tired of the pretty boy tendecies of the series so the poster Warrior of Light and the dude from XVI are great examples of what would be welcome. Just want to set this straight before I'm lumped with anyone labeled as "white knight".

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Oh no worries, I get your point. I just think it's not all that bad and even when compared to the rest of the series, FFXIV could improve.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

https://i.ibb.co/Y71bHcy/Renalt-deordorant.jpg

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Walks in, shocked look on my face appears, sorry man didn't mean to enterupt your S&M party, closes door, shakes head then sais man y'all need Jesus, then walks down hallway to my destination.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

...or feminine.

From my experience, when a women is called handsome it is not used as a term of endearment. It is used offensively.

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Nice to see a based individual around here for once, I went back and liked all your posts I seen, but don't waiste your time with the Alphabet Police, if they can't tell simple things like what is a man what is a woman then there is some bad things wrong with them, hell I might get banned for pointing out this sinple truth that's been around since God made mankind but hey someone has to stand up for basic truths 4 year olds know lol

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

hell I might get banned for pointing out this sinple truth that's been around since God made mankind but hey someone has to stand up for basic truths 4 year olds know lol

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Ah c'mon. Drop that bs.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

Nice to see a based individual around here for once, I went back and liked all your posts I seen, but don't waiste your time with the Alphabet Police, if they can't tell simple things like what is a man what is a woman then there is some bad things wrong with them, hell I might get banned for pointing out this sinple truth that's been around since God made mankind but hey someone has to stand up for basic truths 4 year olds know lol

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No one: talking about the "alphabet police"

You: MEN ARE MEN AND WOMEN ARE WOMEN.

good lord, I say this as someone who hates this phrase, but go touch grass.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

since God made mankind

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::: points and laughs in atheist :::

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

God made mankind

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ma'am this is a ffxiv wendys' not a mental hospital. It's probably hard to tell the difference sometimes.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

ma'am this is a ffxiv wendys' not a mental hospital. It's probably hard to tell the difference sometimes.

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Our ice cream machine works.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Our ice cream machine works.

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You got me on that one LOL

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Look what I find or don't find attractive isn't of anyone's concern, but this thread seems to indicate that more feminine or even just anything that is not bearded and scarred to hell and back is not a man and not attractive in any way. That is what I take issue with.

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You're the one who made it anyone's concern. You stated this, remember?

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Anyone else getting a little bit of a Titanman feel from this? "Only manly rugged bearded scarred men are handsome and attractive" really?

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Personally, I don't care what you find attractive, but I asked you a genuine question. Because if you can read between the lines, you should know that these aren't the only traits that make a man, a man. However, these characteristics are masculine. So if you don't think masculinity isn't the only thing that makes a man attractive, then what is left? What is left are boyish, effeminate men. If there is something else, then enlighten me. And in order to do that, you will have to mention what you find attractive.

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SE can put whatever kind of men they want in the game and being more or less feminine does not make them less or more of a man. Also, pretty sure this is a troll thread that you took way too seriously.

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Is that so? And would you by chance one among the many who pushes SE to do things like lift restrictions on gear because of representation and "moar options"? If I looked through your posting history, how long would it be before I found something that is in support of this? So what about male representation of the manly man type? And not just in appearance. Why are so many male NPCs in this game simps? Why are there so few males like Lord Hein, Cid, and Gaius? Only thing prettier than a female Viera are the males, and Runar and the tears he sheds for Y'shola is the NPC who quickly comes to mind when it comes to the Hrothgar. Even big bad Zenos who comes off as masculine is one of the game's biggest simps. He simped after me [the WoL] like no one else; constantly seeking validation through battle, and it was the only thing that he was driven by.

Furthermore, what exactly about Aveyond makes him a troll? I've read many of his posts, and not once got that vibe. Is it because he comes off as contrarian who isn't afraid to say what other people won't? Because when he pushes against the narrative that is spun around here, it offends the easily offended? Hell, I guess that makes me a troll too. I will take it seriously because someone has to. Because no one else will.

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Originally Posted by hagare

and that's your standard as an adult.
Something you use as a base to find whether something is attractive or not.
And that's fine.
Just as fine as other people who think otherwise.
As I said, it takes all kinds.

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It's interesting you quoted the only thing I admitted to as being the closest I've mentioned to a standard, but I don't think you know what standards are. A standard would be something you or I require in order to be acceptable and/or sufficient to be so. A measuring tool of sorts. In the case of attraction, my standards might be a male and/or female who is between the ages of XX to XX, be a certain height, race, of religious beliefs, social status, and amount of life experience. What I am mentioning to you and everyone else is what is, and what is not masculine. I've also mentioned that masculinity attracts femininity and vice versa. This is not a standard, this is how binary energies in the universe work. You can think otherwise if you would like, but it does not change this truth.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

::: points and laughs in atheist :::

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Choirs of Angels sing the battle music & play thier instruments as heavenly light brightly & burningly shines down on our battle field.

We get face to face, u pull out the Necronomica ( whatever that book of the dead is), I laugh and say is that all u got foolish atheist, your weapon is as bankrupt as your belief system, I offer up a prayer to Jesus, the one & only God, and king David himself brings me the sword he slayed Goliath with & said use it well my brother in Christ, I give him a lalafells thumbs up.

I return to my face to face battle stance against you, baphomet appears and it seems I'm gonna get unfair fight against the both of you, but long behold a mighty trumpet sounds and the winds twist like a hurricane, the Arch Angel himself, Micheal appears, he said not on my watch heathen, it shall be your blood that will be shed today, then in a furious loud cry me and Micheal let out a battle shout saying PRAISE GOD and we run towards u & baphomet and slice your heads off and chuck your bodies into a Chick FIL A dumpster and we chain your souls up and deliver them to God for judgement.

The End.

I think male characters that look pretty, soft, or elegant are nice. I enjoy the kpop aesthetic personally. But I'm also down to see more masculine looking male characters as well. Variety is good.

That being said, there are plenty of masculine looking characters in the game already. Thancred, Hien, Cid, Ardbert, and Edmont to name a few.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

Nice to see a based individual around here for once, I went back and liked all your posts I seen, but don't waiste your time with the Alphabet Police, if they can't tell simple things like what is a man what is a woman then there is some bad things wrong with them, hell I might get banned for pointing out this sinple truth that's been around since God made mankind but hey someone has to stand up for basic truths 4 year olds know lol

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I appreciate your support. While I am no saint, there are some good people here.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I think male characters that look pretty, soft, or elegant are nice. I enjoy the kpop aesthetic personally. But I'm also down to see more masculine looking male characters as well. Variety is good.

That being said, there are plenty of masculine looking characters in the game already. Thancred, Hien, Cid, Ardbert, and Edmont to name a few.

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TBH between this and some other threads I feel like people will continue to claim there are no masculine male characters in game unless ultimate gigachad appears with 25 layers of muscles on him...

And then Godbert will 1 hit KO him with a suplex...

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Originally Posted by Senn

I think male characters that look pretty, soft, or elegant are nice. I enjoy the kpop aesthetic personally. But I'm also down to see more masculine looking male characters as well. Variety is good.

That being said, there are plenty of masculine looking characters in the game already. Thancred, Hien, Cid, Ardbert, and Edmont to name a few.

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Thank you for listing off a bunch of characters that have either been relegated to complete irrelevancy and no longer form a part of the main cast. The only men we have now are Estinien aka Alphinaud 2.0 complete with a ridiculous ponytail/preachy dialogue and Vrtra the uncanny KPOP idol. Neither of these two fill the niche that a Thancred or Hien do, though Hien is a better example of what I'd like to see given he doesn't have the weak neck most midlanders have.

As for Thancred - who was blessed with a nice looking goatee back in Heavensward, reverted to boy form upon being shaven. And for what? The dude is allegedly in his 30s yet the first time I saw him I immediately assumed he was a teenager. He looked more like his age with the facial hair, but now he's taken a step backwards.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As for Thancred - who was blessed with a nice looking goatee back in Heavensward, reverted to boy form upon being shaven. And for what? The dude is allegedly in his 30s yet the first time I saw him I immediately assumed he was a teenager. He looked more like his age with the facial hair, but now he's taken a step backwards.

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So wait....did you Mentally Erase everything you knew about Thancred, all because he shaved?
My goodness, are you ok dude?

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

TBH between this and some other threads I feel like people will continue to claim there are no masculine male characters in game unless ultimate gigachad appears with 25 layers of muscles on him...

And then Godbert will 1 hit KO him with a suplex...

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Estinien is awesome! One of my favorite characters in the game. :3

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And for what? The dude is allegedly in his 30s yet the first time I saw him I immediately assumed he was a teenager

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It beggars belief that you think that a person has to "look their age". I turn 61 this year and am still taken for a man in his 30's.

Seriously, mate, Ive met 80 year olds that look 40. Where HAVE you been?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

It beggars belief that you think that a person has to "look their age". I turn 61 this year and am still taken for a man in his 30's.

Seriously, mate, Ive met 80 year olds that look 40. Where HAVE you been?

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Meh... I'm a man in my 40's and get mistaken for a highschool girl...

Not a typo either. Apparently ppl in the US cannot tell the difference between a highschool girl and a 167cm tall 54kg effeminite looking man...

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I appreciate your support. While I am no saint, there are some good people here.

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You're good people in my book, I've seen u around here many times, you been here awhile, if you are ever over on the Goblin Server, u got a lafellian friend in me.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

snip.

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If you want more manly men...all we have to do is take your character as the baseline and go in the opposite direction.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Thank you for listing off a bunch of characters that have either been relegated to complete irrelevancy and no longer form a part of the main cast. The only men we have now are Estinien aka Alphinaud 2.0 complete with a ridiculous ponytail/preachy dialogue and Vrtra the uncanny KPOP idol. Neither of these two fill the niche that a Thancred or Hien do, though Hien is a better example of what I'd like to see given he doesn't have the weak neck most midlanders have.

As for Thancred - who was blessed with a nice looking goatee back in Heavensward, reverted to boy form upon being shaven. And for what? The dude is allegedly in his 30s yet the first time I saw him I immediately assumed he was a teenager. He looked more like his age with the facial hair, but now he's taken a step backwards.

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I don't really think Cid has been relegated to complete irrelevancy. I think Thancred and Estinien are pretty masculine too, even though you disagree. Like I said, it's not like I'm against the addition of more masculine characters into the main cast.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

Choirs of Angels sing the battle music & play thier instruments as heavenly light brightly & burningly shines down on our battle field.

We get face to face, u pull out the Necronomica ( whatever that book of the dead is), I laugh and say is that all u got foolish atheist, your weapon is as bankrupt as your belief system, I offer up a prayer to Jesus, the one & only God, and king David himself brings me the sword he slayed Goliath with & said use it well my brother in Christ, I give him a lalafells thumbs up.

I return to my face to face battle stance against you, baphomet appears and it seems I'm gonna get unfair fight against the both of you, but long behold a mighty trumpet sounds and the winds twist like a hurricane, the Arch Angel himself, Micheal appears, he said not on my watch heathen, it shall be your blood that will be shed today, then in a furious loud cry me and Micheal let out a battle shout saying PRAISE GOD and we run towards u & baphomet and slice your heads off and chuck your bodies into a Chick FIL A dumpster and we chain your souls up and deliver them to God for judgement.

The End.

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I think you've conflated atheist with Hollywood satanist. Or you're just trying to outdo the OP in cringe fanfic. Either or.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I think you've conflated atheist with Hollywood satanist. Or you're just trying to outdo the OP in cringe fanfic. Either or.

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There both the same in my eyes, they got the jealous ex girlfriend complex, both claim to not believe in God yet the mention of his name and the cat claws or off comment pettyness comes flying out, they both got a million explanations why he doesn't exist and loathe his followers yet have just as much if not more of a passionate response about him when he's mentioned,even if he's a small part of a comment, with a response like that I find it hard to believe they don't believe, I just think there mad at God or some Christian.

I've seen Muslims, Buddhists and Catholics I can respect, even if I think there views are garbage, at least they know there is a God out there and are trying, satanists and atheists are my favorite Saturday morning cartoons, there own views show them for the hacks they are

Trying?, No friend, i did outdo the OP in my awesome fanfic, Bards will be playing the Angels battle toons all over limsa Lominsa, Lalafells Bards, sweet beautiful highlander and bunny women will aww at our magnificent musical master pieces, The merchants of Ul'dah will sell tickets to it.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

There both the same in my eyes, they got the jealous ex girlfriend complex, both claim to not believe in God yet the mention of his name and the cat claws or off comment pettyness comes flying out, they both got a million explanations why he doesn't exist and loathe his followers yet have just as much if not more of a passionate response about him when he's mentioned,even if he's a small part of a comment, with a response like that I find it hard to believe they don't believe, I just think there mad at God or some Christian.

I've seen Muslims, Buddhists and Catholics I can respect, even if I think there views are garbage, at least they know there is a God out there and are trying, satanists and atheists are my favorite Saturday morning cartoons, there own views show them for the hacks they are

Trying?, No friend, i did outdo the OP in my awesome fanfic, Bards will be playing the Angels battle toons all over limsa Lominsa, Lalafells Bards, sweet beautiful highlander and bunny women will aww at our magnificent musical master pieces, The merchants of Ul'dah will sell tickets to it.

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...screenshot.png

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

There both the same in my eyes, they got the jealous ex girlfriend complex, both claim to not believe in God yet the mention of his name and the cat claws or off comment pettyness comes flying out, they both got a million explanations why he doesn't exist and loathe his followers yet have just as much if not more of a passionate response about him when he's mentioned,even if he's a small part of a comment, with a response like that I find it hard to believe they don't believe, I just think there mad at God or some Christian.

I've seen Muslims, Buddhists and Catholics I can respect, even if I think there views are garbage, at least they know there is a God out there and are trying, satanists and atheists are my favorite Saturday morning cartoons, there own views show them for the hacks they are

Trying?, No friend, i did outdo the OP in my awesome fanfic, Bards will be playing the Angels battle toons all over limsa Lominsa, Lalafells Bards, sweet beautiful highlander and bunny women will aww at our magnificent musical master pieces, The merchants of Ul'dah will sell tickets to it.

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You mean a passionate response like you are unleashing right now?