Please don't harass people for ignoring/disliking the story

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

1. They are already using spaghetti code and an old framework as excuses (lol, nice helms hrothgar.)
2. Are you telling me that the current devs don't treat themselves like rockstars? Btw, check out that new music video that dropped on their youtube channel!
3. Yeah, you should go further. This game has a lot of issues that EA sneaked into WoW like the cash shop and the sudden glut of FOMO injected into the game.

Either way, no point in arguing. I tried when EQ/EQ2 got big and SoE went full EA, I tried when WoW got scooped up by EA, I tried when games becoming a service was becoming a common place, tbh I am tried of trying to save a hobby when the new blood would rather blindly defend companies than use some simple critical thinking to see how a bad idea can ruin an IP. All I can say is, enjoy the game! Your mindset has won the day and all we can do is brace for the future and all it brings~!

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1. What I stated was more of a cultural thing due to WoW starting at the right place at the right time. It was bound to decline as more mmos started to follow in its footsteps and over-flooding the market with MMOs. Again, wow was immensely popular because people used the game as more than just what it was. This is why people whom desperately try to capture that "magic" of MMOs is chasing a fool's errand as you cant ever replicate that era. You grew up, people change, standards change.

2. Not with them constantly apologizing and fixing their mess ups and actively communicating with the playerbase via their lodestone posts and Live Letters. This has been something that has been consistent with the team since day one ever since Yoshida came on board. With the Blizzard team, you had people come and go, developers being dismissive of the feedback with their large playerbase etc. You clearly see in their actions and statements that they felt like they could do no wrong. People like to joke that the FFXIV community likes to treat the devs this way, but thats just it, the FFXIV community TREATS them that way, the devs themselves dont.

3. Yes, with how EA actively mistreats their own employees, overpricing the items and services for a paid subscription service (the same services that FFXIV offers are far cheaper than those found in the WoW store). Im not saying that the Mogstation itself is a perfect haven either as a cash shop will always be a cash shop, but if we're going to compare between the two, the WoW store still takes the cake.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

Comparing a video game to a plce of worship LOL, take your pills already.

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I could compare a game to absolutely anything. It does not somehow mean I need to take pills. I don't understand.

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here let me break it down for you - you go to a place of worhship for 1 main reason, to worship. you play video games for multiple reasons, which arent limited to a story, ffxiv has A LOT of content, that can be enjoyed without the story.

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You play video games for multiple reasons because video games have multiple genres. You specifically play FFXIV, an MMORPG, for its specific genre of content, all of which is underpinned by and inspired by a story.

Yes, you can enjoy FFXIV without the story but then you shouldn't try to troll people about the story and then pretend you are the victim of harassment.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think I've seen far more meltdowns over people criticising the burger scene than criticism of the burger scene in question at this point.

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Nah. I've seen one person have more meltdowns over that burger scene than Amber Heard's lawyer had over the muffins. Everyone else just laughs at that person like they did the lawyer. If you can't tell the difference between being amused and having a meltdown, that's concerning o.O

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If you're referring to threads that pretend to be positive but then insert not-so-subtle digs at people critical of various aspects of the game and that is challenged? It's not really a cabal of negativity. Nonetheless, I was specifically addressing comments that try to justify harassing story skippers. I do find it silly if they try comment on the story in spite of skipping it, but equally that ignorance makes it all the easier to shrug it off - much like specious claims about "majorities".

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No, I'm referring to threads that actually are positive, but which get certain people immediately jumping in and saying things like "I loved how I did all the content in 2 days and then had nothing else to do there." Also, I find it humorous how you love to question "majorities" but let people acting like the population is plummeting when it's the highest it's ever been just slide by ;)

It is not the melted down it is the melted cheese. Is making the bad cholesterol. The player making the mistaken that to be bulk must eat the bad food like the cheesie burger from the slice of the life anime write. Is wrong!

Story writers guild is not ignore the story. This is wrong taking. We are write the new story to replace old like the Realm of the Rebirth. Is new world rule by God Meteo and God King Solus and Varis and Scottish Fordola and all player is now the No Shadow Gods. Will be the world with out the cheesieburger and only the clean bulking. Where all the people will do the 100 push up and 100 sit up and 100 squat and run all the single day. Not even magic man will allow being weak I will teach you 12 God Rhadagar Punch Magic.

Trust in us and we shall showing all the way. By making the revolting rebellion forum player can bring the change.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

> "My love will be forever with yours, my dearest children."
> VENAT HATES EVERYONE BUT HERSELF!

cherrypicking.jpg

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Because that’s how it works: If someone says they love someone, that is 100% the truth with no room for lying or a skewed perception of reality on her part, even when her actions contradict the claims of love.

I've never seen someone "bullied" over the story in this game, I'm having a hard time believing this actually exists. At any rate, harassing in game under any form is against TOS, so why not just report them, probably less than 1% of players read forums, so PSA here won't do much.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I almost feel for zodiark, just a pathetic shell that ended up doing nothing. Total letdown. It'd be like Kefka just tripping and falling off the floating Island and dying. womp womp

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That would be funny. I can even imagine him laughing on the way down.

Also this is admirable and impressive, for such a blatant baitpost.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

That's because your opinion is completely invalidated. You constantly harp about stupid things like the female characters not constantly being damsels in distress and god forbid there's a lite scene where someone is eating a hamburger. Your takes are garbage and its why people don't take you seriously.

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Do you think Meteion makes a tasty Nothingburger?

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Do you think Meteion makes a tasty Nothingburger?

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0353792081.png

Oh, this thread gained five more pages since I went to bed, wonder what happened.....

....oh, it was just another bout of people talking at aveyond again. Well, there's ten minutes of life I'll never get back.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think I've seen far more meltdowns over people criticising the burger scene than criticism of the burger scene in question at this point.

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meltdown? mock and make fun of is more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

1. They are already using spaghetti code and an old framework as excuses (lol, nice helms hrothgar.)
2. Are you telling me that the current devs don't treat themselves like rockstars? Btw, check out that new music video that dropped on their youtube channel!
3. Yeah, you should go further. This game has a lot of issues that EA snuck into WoW like the cash shop and the sudden glut of FOMO injected into the game.

Either way, no point in arguing. I tried when EQ/EQ2 got big and SoE went full EA, I tried when WoW got scooped up by EA, I tried when games becoming a service was becoming a common place, tbh I am tried of trying to save a hobby when the new blood would rather blindly defend companies than use some simple critical thinking to see how a bad idea can ruin an IP. All I can say is, enjoy the game! Your mindset has won the day and all we can do is brace for the future and all it brings~!

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I was around for EQ/EQ2 and many others. I've seen many failures. WoW had some money and fame behind it. FF has it better and while their initial offering of XIV was garbage, they managed to salvage it. I've not seen anyone get that opportunity much less make something of it.

The Primals are actual rockstars making quality music people want to buy up and attend concerts for. It's a big deal for video game music, which has been much maligned for years. You wanna talk about people acting like rockstars? Let's talk about Brad McQuaid and his visions. Let's talk about Richard Garriott and his big failure in this genre. Let's talk about Chris Roberts fleecing his fans on this perpetual alpha.

If only these "rockstars" were able to pull off better storytelling that didn't involve the worst use of time travel I've ever seen compared with the two worst villains in the entire FF franchise. Love how Yoshi confirmed himself recently that Dynamis wasn't even a concept they were thinking of during Shadowbringers, as if the writing decisions taken for Endwalker didn't already have enough controversy surrounding them. They had the opportunity to steer clear of the anime girl of hopelessness and destruction nonsense and instead went straight for it.

I think I'll gladly take the Metal Opera's story from Avantasia's albums over this, at least the rings on their fingers were justified unlike around here. Granted it's been years since I first heard it and I was definitely much too young at the time to make sense of their lyrics, but they definitely had more of a grounded and emotionally compelling air to them than the *cue sad music it's time to cry* *cue happy music these are your assigned friends* sort of thing going on in Endwalker.

https://i.imgur.com/DObAV3c.png

The full synopsis of its plot can be found here, but beyond old metal albums it seems that even Kingdom Hearts of all franchises has been doing some bolder things with its storytelling lately.

https://i.imgur.com/87r5OZM.png

If nothing else I suppose I should be glad of the numerous new releases coming up between now and January/February 2024 while this current filler arc runs its course, and wait until this alleged big event in 6.5 takes place to see what becomes of whatever remains of FFXIV's godless, souless world. Bereft of strong magic and fantasy elements, their only recourse was to send us off to the Void to go save it and banking on us caring about the fate of Vrtra's sister. Short of a rejoining or similar catastrophe on the scale of Dalamud's fall, I cannot see a compelling future that takes us into a 7.0 worth playing.

Whatever vision they have needs to be made clear as soon as possible. In the meantime FFXIV remains little more than a once-every-two-weeks chore for me to log in to and then forget about till the time comes around again. Doubtless others feel similar, and without our support I can only hope that the new target audience is enough to keep the game in a somewhat viable state. Given all I've seen so far however, 10 more years of FFXIV doesn't appear to be in the cards unless they get their act together.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Also, I find it humorous how you love to question "majorities" but let people acting like the population is plummeting when it's the highest it's ever been just slide by ;)

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1) Red herring, since it has virtually nothing to do with "majorities", especially the kind you usually pull out of nowhere.
2) It isn't. It was at its highest in the lead-up to EW. It's since plateaud at 1.3m and that is a generous figure because it includes a lot of people who have yet to complete EW in large part. You can examine the Lucky Bancho figures if you doubt any of this. Meanwhile if you examine the only indicator we have of live figures - the Steam ones - they have dipped quite a bit and at a faster rate than 6.1's.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

1) Red herring, since it has virtually nothing to do with "majorities", especially the kind you usually pull out of nowhere.
2) It isn't. It was at its highest in the lead-up to EW. It's since plateaud at 1.3m and that is a generous figure because it includes a lot of people who have yet to complete EW in large part. You can examine the Lucky Bancho figures if you doubt any of this. Meanwhile if you examine the only indicator we have of live figures - the Steam ones - they have dipped quite a bit and at a faster rate than 6.1's.

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Even though this has always been the case within every expansion release. Clearly the game is dying.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Even though this has always been the case within every expansion release. Clearly the game is dying.

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To understand if it's the same as prior instances, you'd need to compare the breakdown of the LB surveys and see if they are following a similar pattern or showing disproportionately higher numbers of 'newer' players, and how well the game is managing to retain existing and new players. The survey's author himself has expressed concern at the trends he is seeing in the figures, especially in light of their purchase of new servers. I am not addressing claims that the game is "dying", just Striker's comment. So put the deflection tactics to rest.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

1) Red herring, since it has virtually nothing to do with "majorities", especially the kind you usually pull out of nowhere.
2) It isn't. It was at its highest in the lead-up to EW. It's since plateaud at 1.3m and that is a generous figure because it includes a lot of people who have yet to complete EW in large part. You can examine the Lucky Bancho figures if you doubt any of this. Meanwhile if you examine the only indicator we have of live figures - the Steam ones - they have dipped quite a bit and at a faster rate than 6.1's.

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It's truly something that they were handed the fall of WoW, could've rearranged things in order to pump out a Deep Dungeon/Criterion Dungeon earlier than something like Island Sanctuary or even done the simple thing of adding some new rewards to PoTD or HoH...and instead they did nothing. So many obvious solutions to the current retention problem but not one of them reaches the ears of the king of final fantasy these days.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

To understand if it's the same as prior instances, you'd need to compare the breakdown of the LB surveys and see if they are following a similar pattern or showing disproportionately higher numbers of 'newer' players, and how well the game is managing to retain existing and new players. The survey's author himself has expressed concern at the trends he is seeing in the figures, especially in light of their purchase of new servers. I am not addressing claims that the game is "dying", just Striker's comment. So put the deflection tactics to rest.

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The only issue with trying to find patterns with LB and or Steam is trying to make assumption based on a portion of the FFXIV playerbase and the data won't ever be 100% accurate to the whole pie. It's just confirmation bias

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It's truly something that they were handed the fall of WoW, could've rearranged things in order to pump out a Deep Dungeon/Criterion Dungeon earlier than something like Island Sanctuary or even done the simple thing of adding some new rewards to PoTD or HoH...and instead they did nothing. So many obvious solutions to the current retention problem but not one of them reaches the ears of the king of final fantasy these days.

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Yup the dev team are just sitting on their asses and laurels rather than working on the game. Thank God for the almighty aveyond to clearly known what's up. His dad works for SE you see

Yeah, the data needs to be caveated - for LB data, it can lead to over-estimates if misused as a live player count, because what it is trying to get at is the number of unique character logins that meet its threshold over the relevant time period (and it also can't discount alts, even if they may be rare in this game compared to, say, WOW), and that's in addition to any challenges scraping the Lodestone for this data brings with it. The creator of the survey thankfully provides quite granular breakdowns of figures, so you can examine it for trends in the playerbase's structure, if one is so inclined.

But here's the problem: any metric you use to tell me the game is at its "highest" player count is exactly the same as the one I will be referring to when disputing the claim that it currently is the case. Absent SE putting out its figures itself, we have fallible proxy data, but it not being 100% accurate is not the same as it not being usable at all. You simply go in with an understanding of the limitations. The same goes when people tout their financial figures to claim Yoshi is "carrying" SE. The game is performing well compared to their other titles, but we're looking at time-lagged and aggregated figures that are backward-looking in nature. They also don't tell you what the company would regard as a "success", because when it is pouring more money into the game (as it is for 7.0), it probably has criteria for how well the game has to perform, or even out-perform past trends to justify these investments.

I'll be candid: I don't think the game is dying. What I have is concerns about its future direction and I'm afraid the resident cheerleaders here aren't doing a particularly good job of changing my view of that. If anything, quite the opposite. They come across as wanting to stifle any discussion of its faults on a venue intended for feedback. And yes, I am rather sceptical of whether the game is making the most of the opportunities available to it.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I'll be candid: I don't think the game is dying. What I have is concerns about its future direction and I'm afraid the resident cheerleaders here aren't doing a particularly good job of changing my view of that. If anything, quite the opposite. They come across as wanting to stifle any discussion of its faults on a venue intended for feedback. And yes, I am rather sceptical of whether the game is making the most of the opportunities available to it.

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It definitely isn't, but it could be on a downturn. I was talking about this over Discord, but EW won't really be a wakeup call for any real changes. They'd have to have a spectacular failure of an expansion, and perhaps the arrival of competent competitors for that to really happen.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It definitely isn't, but it could be on a downturn. I was talking about this over Discord, but EW won't really be a wakeup call for any real changes. They'd have to have a spectacular failure of an expansion, and perhaps the arrival of competent competitors for that to really happen.

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Yeah I think this is the fair way to put it. People going on the extreme that because of this, this, this and this that the game is declining when really there's nothing to really show for it where's that actually the case. It's just more doom mongering, in order to actually be declining we have to see a general consensus that is the case not just some troubled few whom love to cry wolf at every single thing they have issue with.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

I don't think it's THAT wild to expect a lesser focus on story in XIV, even disregarding the fact that it's in a genre that doesn't usually focus on linear storytelling.
First off, there was actually a time where the story was minimal and a secondary part of the game back in the 1.0 days, secondly it's not like there aren't games in the mainline Final Fantasy series where the story takes a backseat - XII and XV come to mind.
XIV's story isn't there out of necessity or anything, it was a deliberate choice to make it the focus of the game.

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I haven't played all the FF games (just 1, and 7-12), and it is true some didn't have a story driven narrative.

But this one decided to have one. And I feel players should respect that. I mean, my husband skips through everything except the MSQ cutscenes, spending most of his playing time asking me what happened XD

ARR isn't a good story part though. That I agree with. Even with cutting out some of the quests, it doesn't pull people in like HW onwards.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

I haven't played all the FF games (just 1, and 7-12), and it is true some didn't have a story driven narrative.

But this one decided to have one. And I feel players should respect that. I mean, my husband skips through everything except the MSQ cutscenes, spending most of his playing time asking me what happened XD

ARR isn't a good story part though. That I agree with. Even with cutting out some of the quests, it doesn't pull people in like HW onwards.

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I don't necessarily agree with that statement regards to pulling people in with HW. For starters you have to be accepting and following the plot of ARR to even remotely care for the setup in HW and a lot of character development relies on what was established in ARR.

One major example of this is Haurchefaunt. It blows my mind to see people be dismissive of ARR but then overly praise HW when it waa due to what was established in his role in ARR ( that being a supportive noble knight, whom you grew to establish that trust)

So yeah I think to a lot of people, I feel that indeed ARR pulls in people. It's also why I get very annoyed with many overselling HW or ShB and be dismissive over the other major parts of this game as if they don't even matter. Because they clearly do if you want to have that level of meaning behind the characters, setting and story

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

Story is alright, but its not the level of story that it makes people "cry".

only people getting emotional are the same ones watching cheap soap operas and get emotional over that.

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Feeling you call me out at this! I've gotten emotional a number of times with he MSQ, especially in EW and a few dungeons. Seeing people you've grown attached to in the story come and help, or lose their lives .... yeah.

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Originally Posted by Nikki

Thats what i did with shadowbringer. Skipped away to try new jobs. Then grabbed myself a nice cup of coffee and watched the story on YouTube. Watching someone else narrate story in 20 mins videos while i can kick back and relax is much more enjoyable and i didn't miss a thing. I play ffxiv for combat, glam and trying new classes. Will do the same with Endwalker.

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This is like what my husband does in games. Skips all extra side content and focuses on the MSQ and dungeons. Here and in WoW he did that. I had to explain what is going on to him a lot. Frustrating but slowly realized that is what he enjoys.

Though I don't feel someone TLDR'ing the story has the same impact as seeing it yourself, if you enjoy it that way, go for it. Heh, reminds me when MSQ could be skipped and all the other players would tell a newbie to "skip and watch it in the Inn!"

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

This is like what my husband does in games. Skips all extra side content and focuses on the MSQ and dungeons. Here and in WoW he did that. I had to explain what is going on to him a lot. Frustrating but slowly realized that is what he enjoys.

Though I don't feel someone TLDR'ing the story has the same impact as seeing it yourself, if you enjoy it that way, go for it. Heh, reminds me when MSQ could be skipped and all the other players would tell a newbie to "skip and watch it in the Inn!"

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Too bad a lot of the cool instanced solo fights and extra cutscenes can't be seen at the inn. Aka you cant see the fist fight part when you fight Zenos at the end.

So there's still some good story fluff that you miss out. But there's nothing wrong with skipping and looking the story back at the inn. Mostly I feel sometimes it can be hard to get the general context idea behind many of it scenes when you binge watch them back to back

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Yoshi needs to stop trying to "send messages" and focus moreso on telling entertaining fantasy stories. When I write things the last thing I focus on is any specific "theme" I'm more concerned with the plot of what I'm trying to put out. Themes can arise naturally as a reader takes in the story without me spoonfeeding them the way Alphi did to us at several junctures in EW.

If Endwalker demonstrated anything is that his view on things is too different from my own for me to want to endure such preaching, from the forge ahead nonsense to brownie points scored by removing the gender lock from gear hardly anyone buys or wears. Appeals to virtue mean nothing to me, especially when such real-world morals have little place in what used to be a game set in a fantasy world and time period.

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I find your first paragraph interesting, as media on television has sent messages for years. Look at Star Trek's original series, or GI Joe. Always had a moral to it.

Heck even games now do the same thing.

I liked and disliked EW. Especially towards the long "walking" part which rubbed me the wrong way.

In general I do think EW is starting to fray at the seams. This is the most vocal I have seen the community in years of various aspects of the game, I will just take the easy two of story and PvE balancing/current job design. Yes there are complaints every expansion but this is the first time since HW I have seen such a pushback from multiple sides of the community at once. I don't think it will harm the population numbers massively in the short term but there are several examples we can point to that started their descent in a very similar way.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It definitely isn't, but it could be on a downturn. I was talking about this over Discord, but EW won't really be a wakeup call for any real changes. They'd have to have a spectacular failure of an expansion, and perhaps the arrival of competent competitors for that to really happen.

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I’m more or less here.

I love the game and it is an important part of my hobby-life, but I can’t help but think the dev team over-reached, or was pushed for time, got lazy..or just felt it was a good chance to try a lot of different things artistically.

My distaste is I can’t really see where 1 part was really good to make up for the bad…

Like, while I didn’t love the Stormblood storyline, the battle content was great. The alternative content (like Eureka) interesting. I could see where the budget went.

I mean, there certainly is much more mocap work in EW, and the cutscenes are generally better quality…but good enough to give a pass on a below average story… we’ll see!

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Originally Posted by Mat13295

Semi joke post but here's how we get people to stop buying story skips.

Delete ARR. It's hot garbage.

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ARR, after the reworks to the dungeons and the story reworks, is actually pretty solid right now. There's a couple of bumps but it feels a lot more cohesive with the rest of the story.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

In general I do think EW is starting to fray at the seams. This is the most vocal I have seen the community in years of various aspects of the game, I will just take the easy two of story and PvE balancing/current job design. Yes there are complaint every expansion but this is the first time since HW I have seen such a pushback from multiple sides of the community at once. I don't think it will harm the population numbers massively in the short term but there are several examples we can point to that started their descent in a very similar way.

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Really? We remember stormblood very differently then.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

In general I do think EW is starting to fray at the seams. This is the most vocal I have seen the community in years of various aspects of the game, I will just take the easy two of story and PvE balancing/current job design. Yes there are complaint every expansion but this is the first time since HW I have seen such a pushback from multiple sides of the community at once. I don't think it will harm the population numbers massively in the short term but there are several examples we can point to that started their descent in a very similar way.

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The most vocal in the forum community comprised of the few individuals whom lurk in here. I've already started to familiarize the same people whom say and share the same things.

Stormblood I remember a few job balance issues but never as vocal as the 2 minute burst window design has been. Stormblood's story only got more praise once 3.3 hit thanks to Yotsuyu's arc.

Shadowbringers stole my dots, butchered my fairy, and kidnapped my wife.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

Story is alright, but its not the level of story that it makes people "cry".

only people getting emotional are the same ones watching cheap soap operas and get emotional over that.

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I didn't know Fist of the North Star was a soap opera.

I mean, I did watch pro wrestling when I was younger, that's pretty much a male soap opera.....

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

I haven't played all the FF games (just 1, and 7-12), and it is true some didn't have a story driven narrative.

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We only accept the best and most thought provoking storylines for the presitigious Final Fantasy franchise.

https://i.redd.it/2zeauq7kfac31.png

FFV had flaws but it still had more major character deaths and overall growth of the bonds between party members than Endwalker. A simple story that didn't attempt to subvert expectations at every turn and was better off for it.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

FFV had flaws but it still had more major character deaths and overall growth of the bonds between party members than Endwalker. A simple story that didn't attempt to subvert expectations at every turn and was better off for it.

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Funny how you say this, yet FFV also didnt shy away to add in goofy humor within its plot and basic predictable rpg tropes. Which are things you "heavily criticize" with EW. Get out of here, dont drag my beloved FFV into your bs nonsense, you clearly have not played the game for you to be stating that FFV had more major character deaths (Galuf was the only person who died) and character growth than the ongoing narrative between multiple characters in FFXIV and its expansions.

I say this as somebody who loves FFV.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Funny how you say this, yet FFV also didnt shy away to add in goofy humor within its plot and basic predictable rpg tropes. Which are things you "heavily criticize" with EW. Get out of here, dont drag my beloved FFV into your bs nonsense, you clearly have not played the game for you to be stating that FFV had more major character deaths (Galuf was the only person who died) and character growth than the ongoing narrative between multiple characters in FFXIV and its expansions.

I say this as somebody who loves FFV.

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Yeah FFV is just a goofy game with a light hearted tone where the plot mostly exists to get you from place to place while the real focus is on the gameplay and the job system.
I was just using it as an example that an FF game doesn't always necessarily entail a deep storyline.