It's time to revaluate paper crown battlementors

They should remove the carrot on the stick and change the Mentor crown into a watering can (To stick to the theme with a sprout).

After that we will see many fake mentors taking it off and the real mentors will stay to do what mentors are meant to do: "Giving new players solid advice and guidance as well as helping them when in need."

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Would like to see a removal of mentors in general.

Crafting mentor:

its 100% counter intuitive to 'help' people craft, if you are a crafter. Why would you want more competition?

Every person i have helped learn to craft, has come back to bite me in the ass and undercut me on niche markets that i use for passive income.

Battle mentor:

Should require a savage tier clear and 10x clears of each 'current' expansion extreme trial.

If people cant clear savage, are they actually in the position to give advice to people that want to learn?

I would much rather ask somebody who has a current tier clear than a guy with a burger king crown that only does expert roulette. One of them knows how to play the game, the other just casually got the crown.

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Say what??? Mentors are intended to be there to help sprouts with basic questions about the game. You don't need to have cleared savage or extreme anything to be able to do that, nor would sprouts likely be asking about anything like that. Someone who's never done a savage can still answer basic questions sprouts are likely to ask regarding roulettes, grand companies, aetherytes, etc.. They can give the simple kind of advice sprouts need for using mitigation, oGCD heals, etc.. None of that requires savage experience.

Frankly, if I was asking a question about roulettes, I'd rather get advice from the person who does a ton of roulettes than the one whose mind is focused on savage or extreme content.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Would like to see a removal of mentors in general.

Crafting mentor:

its 100% counter intuitive to 'help' people craft, if you are a crafter. Why would you want more competition?

Every person i have helped learn to craft, has come back to bite me in the ass and undercut me on niche markets that i use for passive income.

Battle mentor:

Should require a savage tier clear and 10x clears of each 'current' expansion extreme trial.

If people cant clear savage, are they actually in the position to give advice to people that want to learn?

I would much rather ask somebody who has a current tier clear than a guy with a burger king crown that only does expert roulette. One of them knows how to play the game, the other just casually got the crown.

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First point: Sorry someone undercut you, let me play you a song on the world's smallest violin. Everyone undercuts everyone, that's how selling works in this game because they made crafting extremely easy that you don't need much brainpower to do it properly. Taking away crafting mentors won't fix your problem unless they rework crafting to no longer be macro-able.

Second point: No. Clearing savage does nothing to prove you're a capable player unless you have the logs to back it up. People literally pay for clears, especially in harder content like Savage and Ultimate. If those are the type of people you want as mentors then be my guest but good luck learning anything other than how to open your wallet, be a leech and stand in Limsa flashing a weapon at people.

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If ya'll want capable mentors in things then the process itself of selecting them needs to be changed to manual reviews of each applicant by a GM or some sort of interview process to weed out people who don't care other than wanting a symbol over their heads.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

First point: Sorry someone undercut you, let me play you a song on the world's smallest violin. Everyone undercuts everyone, that's how selling works in this game because they made crafting extremely easy that you don't need much brainpower to do it properly. Taking away crafting mentors won't fix your problem unless they rework crafting to no longer be macro-able.

Second point: No. Clearing savage does nothing to prove you're a capable player unless you have the logs to back it up. People literally pay for clears, especially in harder content like Savage and Ultimate. If those are the type of people you want as mentors then be my guest but good luck learning anything other than how to open your wallet, be a leech and stand in Limsa flashing a weapon at people.

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If ya'll want capable mentors in things then the process itself of selecting them needs to be changed to manual reviews of each applicant by a GM or some sort of interview process to weed out people who don't care other than wanting a symbol over their heads.

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Isnt it against the rules to sell/buy boosts?

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

Isnt it against the rules to sell/buy boosts?

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Buying a clear with gil or other in-game rewards is fine. Paying with actual cash or outside items is a no-no (but still happens).

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Say what??? Mentors are intended to be there to help sprouts with basic questions about the game. You don't need to have cleared savage or extreme anything to be able to do that, nor would sprouts likely be asking about anything like that..

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Exactly that, idk why ppl expect world first players for mentors only, mean while players on lv 80+ STILL CANT STACK or know your gear 101 etc...

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Buying a clear with gil or other in-game rewards is fine. Paying with actual cash or outside items is a no-no (but still happens).

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You can't advertise you are selling clears. Buying yes.

I turned off the mentor crown.

I still shout mechanics in alliance raid. People are frankly more likely to listen to me without it.

I keep mentor status active so I can direct traffic in Novice Network, and torture myself in mentor roulette on occasion. (One of my friends is trying to do 5 mentor roulettes a day right now. He's insane. He also has some extremely choice words about Ratholos Ex....)

Mentor crown is useless. Even if the mentor knows what they are doing people in this game take politely given advice as if you just threw acid in their face no matter how much you honey your words. I've also seen mentors who have tried to teach mechanics in a fight saying the completely wrong way to do things and be corrected by non mentors. Remove the crown and give sprouts a proper guide to learn in the game.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I turned off the mentor crown.

I still shout mechanics in alliance raid. People are frankly more likely to listen to me without it.

I keep mentor status active so I can direct traffic in Novice Network, and torture myself in mentor roulette on occasion. (One of my friends is trying to do 5 mentor roulettes a day right now. He's insane. He also has some extremely choice words about Ratholos Ex....)

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I don't wanna brag but 5 mentor roulettes a day is nothing. I was doing 20 or 30 per day when I was grinding them for the Astrope, and my FC leader was also doing that many when he grinded for his. I even went as far as doing 50 a day for the last 100 mentor roulettes, now that was insanity.

Teaching sprouts is foolish already.
trying to "train" mentors is even more foolish.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I turned off the mentor crown.

I still shout mechanics in alliance raid. People are frankly more likely to listen to me without it.

I keep mentor status active so I can direct traffic in Novice Network, and torture myself in mentor roulette on occasion. (One of my friends is trying to do 5 mentor roulettes a day right now. He's insane. He also has some extremely choice words about Ratholos Ex....)

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There are certain periods of the day where queueing as a DPS gives you a bunch of guildhests. You can even get Bockman multiple times in a row. Those are 30-second victories.

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Originally Posted by Bookie

Teaching sprouts is foolish already.
trying to "train" mentors is even more foolish.

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What? It's wrong to help others out of the kindness of your heart? To teach someone how to handle a mechanic or where to find a certain NPC?

I don't get this.

Honestly getting guildhests in mentor roulettes is kind of dumb. There's barely any mentoring to do and usually it would only be to remind the tank to put stance on. I know mentor roulettes is there to help fill for duties but I'd probably remove guildhests from it and I'm not saying this because I did my grind either.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

There are certain periods of the day where queueing as a DPS gives you a bunch of guildhests. You can even get Bockman multiple times in a row. Those are 30-second victories.

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My experience:

Tank - Mostly EX content with the occasional dungeon
Healer: Mostly dungeon content with the occasional EX
DPS: Mix of EX / Dungeons / small smattering of Guildhest

I am going to reverse my thoughts on one thing.

Yes, take the mentor roulette, remove the mentor crown requirement.
Instead make it the requirements it now is, every, single, non savage non ultimate dungeon, and slap on the current combat mentor requirements.

Make ALL of that the requirements, and make it's unlock a quest in the mentor hall.

But don't require actual mentorship for it.

More folks might actually que in it for a while. Maybe folks would lay off mentors trying to help, once they see what it's like.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Are you aware that the one you call "regular mentor" is someone who has both battle/pvp mentor and crafting mentor?
Rr do you think they get their title by just unlocking quests or something?
Also, if people ask stuff in NN, all mentors will reply. Imagine a battle mentor going "oh no I'm too high and mighty for simple questons". A sprout will also never ask a mentor about savage stuff, that's way beyond sprouting and usually involves something more like the balance.
Now if you're talking about the balance "mentors"...that's A BIT different.

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Quite aware, However advertising as a BATTLE MENTOR should only get BATTLE related questions.

Would you ask a trade mentor how to do an optimal DPS rotation in savage?

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Quite aware, However advertising as a BATTLE MENTOR should only get BATTLE related questions.

Would you ask a trade mentor how to do an optimal DPS rotation in savage?

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you've never been in NN have you

I'd like to see them just drop the program altogether, so people will finally stop bitching about a system that they don't use, nor ever intend to use in the game.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Personally I think only those who have completed all end game pace content including ultimate should be battle mentors and they must have a deep understanding of 3.3

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I feel like people need to remember that a lot of raiders that do savage/ultimate are raid loggers. I'm one of the few people I know that does savage/ultimate and still logs on just about every day. (and even I stop logging in if another game I like comes out) Most raiders I know log on just for reclears and play other games while waiting for the next raid tier/ultimate. If doing ultimate was a requirement there'd just be no mentors in NN and there'd be significantly longer queues for certain content because there wouldn't be bodies in mentor roulette. This would be an even bigger problem in NA where a very small portion of the playerbase does ultimate. 99% of sprout questions don't require end game knowledge.

What if they removed the mentor status altogether? It's always been useless, people can answer sprouts' questions without being mentors and the sprout chat is whatever it's called is a joke since it's pretty much never used for its actual purpose

Honestly when I was doing Savage it made me want to play the game less. Dunno, my mind was mostly centered on those two static nights and anything else didn't capture me much. I'd like to be a Mentor myself, but not before I level all Jobs. I'm willing to go lengths to help if I'm asked questions, but I'd leave the Savage part to someone else. TBH I don't know someone who wouldn't just pass some YouTube video for Savage beginners/raid guides, Mentor or not.

In a year of playing, I've only met one helpful mentor, the rest of them were basically donuts.

The status really just needs to be removed or as another suggested, make the requirement current savage clears.

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Originally Posted by Troxbark

In a year of playing, I've only met one helpful mentor, the rest of them were basically donuts.

The status really just needs to be removed or as another suggested, make the requirement current savage clears.

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How many sprouts are playing current savage content and are going to have questions about it?

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

[...]99% of sprout questions don't require end game knowledge.

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This, very much.
Sprouts are not stupid, but they don't really go around looking for mentors to ask about high end plays because they either unaware of it or don't need it to progress MSQ.

I doubt they will remove mentors because the JPN & EURO centers might have different experiences.

The Mentor Status will have to be universally disliked before considering removal.

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Originally Posted by Troxbark

In a year of playing, I've only met one helpful mentor, the rest of them were basically donuts.

The status really just needs to be removed or as another suggested, make the requirement current savage clears.

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The perks need to be removed to lower the number of people who are only in it for the crown and the mount.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

Honestly getting guildhests in mentor roulettes is kind of dumb. There's barely any mentoring to do and usually it would only be to remind the tank to put stance on. I know mentor roulettes is there to help fill for duties but I'd probably remove guildhests from it and I'm not saying this because I did my grind either.

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I actually think differently.
Even without mentor roulette, I've always been someone to do guilhests roulette daily just to help sprouts, because it's the one where you get to help sprouts the most.
First of all, guildhests almost only have sprouts. Second, they're menat to teach a lot of fight mechanics, and some of them are quite gimmicky and not very straightforward. Of course there's the text at the start explaining how it works, but due to it appearing after barriers drop, nobody really reads it (which is something I'd love to see changed, give people time to read it before dropping the barriers, tbh. So unless you get some super simple one, like the very first two, there's often some explaination to do. Even with one of the easiest, the gil turtle, sometimes it fails because people keep attacking and you have to explain them how it works.

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Originally Posted by RocciaSolida

What if they removed the mentor status altogether? It's always been useless, people can answer sprouts' questions without being mentors and the sprout chat is whatever it's called is a joke since it's pretty much never used for its actual purpose

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I regularly answer sprout questions during prime time and the rest of the time it's used for socialization between sprouts and mentors which isn't bad per day. It's never bad to have someone to talk to and that can lead into me being able to help them more directly.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

You can't advertise you are selling clears. Buying yes.

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Actually have been seeing some people selling clears on the PF again in Aether. XD

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

How many sprouts are playing current savage content and are going to have questions about it?

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1. Other mentors and Returners actually ask questions about endgame rotations and savage fights fairly frequently. I've even helped people with DSR in the Novice Network lol. There are also tons of questions about endgame job balance from newer players.

2. Beating Extreme+ indicates someone probably has a higher level understanding of the games core concepts pertaining to PVE, as higher difficulties just kind of build on existing concepts and aren't some totally unique thing. It's useful for someone mentoring PVE to have a full understanding of the trajectory a player takes from character creation to Savage raiding, because certain habits and knowledge can be developed early on that will be useful later.

Without fail, the PVE mentors I see spreading bad misinformation are people that pretty much never touch high-end content, and often have weird agendas or personal visions for how they believe the game is 'meant' to played. Most of these mentalities are things that would never ever fly in Savage+, and someone who had completed that type of content would be much less likely to spread that kind of misinformation.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

1. Other mentors and Returners actually ask questions about endgame rotations and savage fights fairly frequently. I've even helped people with DSR in the Novice Network lol. There are also tons of questions about endgame job balance from newer players.

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I see a lot of questions about job balance in novice networks across worlds and data centers, but the general answer provided is that they are balanced enough and that the balance shifts between patches, so they should just play what they enjoy.

In most cases I think their concern is about some major imbalance or getting rejected like has happened in other games, but they will not usually be rejected in party finder or most statics and if they are they can switch job when they are through the story.

I definitely don't see sprouts asking for help with ultimates in the novice network, so that is probably just something in certain novice networks and it's probably temporary while a lot of people are trying it at the same time.

Regardless, there will be some mentors in every novice network that know about ultimates and can answer questions about them. NN is the collective wisdom of multiple mentors, not just one of them. I agree that just having tried extreme or savage a little gives them a good sense of how it's different and the trajectory, but I feel that a lot of mentors have actually done this before because, frankly, they never stop talking about it.

getting rid of the mount for mentor roulette would be a good start or let it require 5000 commendations as well, would be a good start especially to put in an actual effort.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Regardless, there will be some mentors in every novice network that know about ultimates and can answer questions about them. NN is the collective wisdom of multiple mentors, not just one of them. I agree that just having tried extreme or savage a little gives them a good sense of how it's different and the trajectory, but I feel that a lot of mentors have actually done this before because, frankly, they never stop talking about it.

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I feel that in addition to a more exclusive PVE status, a more generalized mentor status should be added with a lower barrier of entry.

On my current server we have a mentor with PVE status who occasionally tells sprouts that AoE attacks are inefficient, and that pulling multiple packs is a bad thing. When other mentors try to intervene and shut him down, sprouts seem to struggle to figure out who they should actually trust. This person, and many others like him, would not have access to the PVE mentor status with a more exclusive requirement. Personally, I've always felt that requiring a single completion of the previous tier of Savage would be enough of a filter.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I feel that in addition to a more exclusive PVE status, a more generalized mentor status should be added with a lower barrier of entry.

On my current server we have a mentor with PVE status who occasionally tells sprouts that AoE attacks are inefficient, and that pulling multiple packs is a bad thing. When other mentors try to intervene and shut him down, sprouts seem to struggle to figure out who they should actually trust. This person, and many others like him, would not have access to the PVE mentor status with a more exclusive requirement. Personally, I've always felt that requiring a single completion of the previous tier of Savage would be enough of a filter.

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I have had plenty of people in savage gear (including savage weapon) who have the mindset you're poking at in here.

No. It will not stop it. Specially when it comes to stuff that has no effect on savage content that's nearly always in a single target, no pulling environment.

Clearing content doesn't make you a good player—teaching others does.

There is absolutely nothing about clearing 50 current Savages that means someone possesses the empathy and patience required to assist others properly with their questions and issues in a helpful and non-judgmental way.

The mentor system now is very flawed because there's no real way for the current requirements to only bestow the status on those who will help and support their fellow players. They should probably just remove the status until they can overhaul the requirements. And probably remove rewards, too, since even the crown itself is part of that. If they had a separate area where those who wanted to mentor could participate and a way for the mentoree to give feedback as a pathway to mentorship, that could work. Because then a mentor would actively be participating and proving they could handle the position.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

Just don't let people run around with that crown.

They just get it when they enter a instance with the mentor roulette and lose it when the dungeon is done.

They don't need to display it everywhere.
Also, new player don't know what they are anyway because auf 2nd player has one above their head.

When they limit the crown to only mentor roulette then it also gets its meaning back.

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Why? People don't need help only in instances. I've had plenty of people find me out in the wild with basic game questions not related to combat at all. Mentoring isn't just about mentor roulette.

The current requirement is fine its at least manageable for even casual players locking it behind 50 Savage clears would just open up a whole new can of worms of people with huge egos maybe even more so.

Current conversations happening on my server's Novice Network:

• changes made to Haukke Manor normal recently
• how to cheese Irregular mog tomes as a blue mage
• what is artifact armor
• how to get relic weapons in the glam dresser (Replica form)
• what is a levequest

NONE of that requires that you have cleared Savage content.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Current conversations happening on my server's Novice Network:
[LIST][*]what is artifact armor

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hey, someone just asked this earlier.
and someone did ask how to get mog tomes fast when the event started.
I think most questions we've got are more about terminologies than anything.
which actually makes sense because they want to get accustomed to the game.
Oh, someone asked how to be able to use mounts a few months ago.