Auto-attack

I'd prefer there to be an auto attack although it could get annoying if you want your stamina bar to go up more.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Oh if ONLY they added auto attack 6 moths ago, then they could have started charging us!
PFFT as if this one minor unnecessary feature cost them any kind of money.

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Probably half true, considering it would look more like FF11, and that would have tried harder to keep all of those that went right back, with their dreams of FFXI-2 shattered.

But anyway, ff the number one voted reason for crap is the battle system, and here you go "Nothing wrong with it, spit on it and give it a good polish, and it's good as new".

Not going to happen. Down with the ship as they say.

Yes please we need auto attack. Honestly part of why I like FFXI over WoW was the fact that the combat gave you time to chat and build friendships. If I want a straight up action fight where no communication is possible i'll play God of War. I want mana regen too on mages. ( link it to int or something so items mand stats can effect it).

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Originally Posted by Reika

This thread should just be renamed "Auto-Attack: A blast from the past!"
OR "Auto-Attack: Because I am lazy!"
OR "Auto-Attack: All the mmos are doing it!"
OR "Auto-Attack: Because I hate originality"

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Originally Posted by Psytic

Yes please we need auto attack. Honestly part of why I like FFXI over WoW was the fact that the combat gave you time to chat and build friendships. If I want a straight up action fight where no communication is possible i'll play God of War. I want mana regen too on mages. ( link it to int or something so items mand stats can effect it).

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You cant attack and chat at the same time with the current system?
you must seek 'Multi-Task' Training from Master Multi-Core

Why should I when they expect me to pay one day. I'm not going to embrace a system that is proven to not work. I don't find spamming basic attack between typing very fun.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Speaking of Rift and Aion:

Auto attack in Rift and Aion is worthless. It just doesn't do anything. Everyone's too busy spamming their other skills.

What I don't get, is that in Rift and Aion, people spam two or three skills over and over (Aion better than Rift, since at least it's not just "combo builder skill > combo builder skill > finisher"). But when they're pressing the exact same number of buttons in this game, it's unacceptable.

It just doesn't make sense. I think it's more to do with people's psychological needs than anything else. It's that, "if it's against the norm, it's bad" sort of thinking. Because they are so ingrained with the idea that AA is necessary (afterall, almost every other MMO has it), they just automatically assume it's needed in this (even though it's worthless in almost every other MMO).

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Did you miss all of my previous posts? it has nothing to do with ingrain ideas, there is a fair amount of game mechanics that AA allows. Granted some posters just want AA due to habbit, but claiming that that is the ONLY reason people want AA is false.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Instead of making the portion of the battle which is less enjoyable... more enjoyable? Instead of reducing "things" from 20 to 12 because you only need 12... why not make it so you need all 20 "things"? It is all backwards.

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Can you honestly say that you enjoy having to hit one button multiple times to get to your planned ultimate action?

Every class has a base attack, making all classes have to sit there and hit the base attack button multiple times to get to the part of things that makes your class unique (and ultimately the reason you chose to play it), which seems a bit redundant.

Adding AA allows the gamer to do what is unique to their class and focus on those abilities.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Instead of making the portion of the battle which is less enjoyable... more enjoyable? Instead of reducing "things" from 20 to 12 because you only need 12... why not make it so you need all 20 "things"? It is all backwards.

I think it is quite a cheap way to fix the issue. It is not only about ADD kids either, the gamers these days are probably in their 20's or even 30's and they would most likely play this kind of game for "ADD kids" rather than a game where battles are more automated. Why is this kind of game somehow "inferior" that you need to use an insulting term like that? I don't think most people would agree with that.

It is a 'cheap' and lackluster solution to fix the problems of the game. You could fix the game better if you took those 5 things and implemented them, instead of one so-so feature with a noticeable downside to it (and you would still have to implement few of those 5 things anyway if you wanted to fix the game).

Why should we be satisfied with the inferior solution? Why aren't we encouraging the developers to fix their game properly and discourage them to take the cheap route?

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Betal I already said that they need to make the inputs better, that is part of the argument for AA, less bad commands for more good ones. I am part of this older generation of gamers out there (28) and I have seen my fair share of good games and good game ideas. FFXIV has nothing revolutionary about it, all they have is a needlessly busy combat system. AA can either allow for fewer inputs for the same results, or for the same volume of inputs with more interesting mechanics. and you stil ahve not said why AA is an "inferior soulution" or "lack luster" just saying so is not an arguement. If you want me to understand, someone is going to have to explain why AA is inferior.

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Originally Posted by MauiWaui

Can you honestly say that you enjoy having to hit one button multiple times to get to your planned ultimate action?

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Yes, I can honestly say that. It gives me more control over the battle and also keeps me involved and immersed. And really, people are exaggerating how much they have to "spam" their light attack.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Yes, I can honestly say that. It gives me more control over the battle and also keeps me involved and immersed. And really, people are exaggerating how much they have to "spam" their light attack.

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No they aren't. "Involved and immersed" sounds like an exaggeration to me.

Just came back after a while and people are still saying they spam o.O

Do you actually read the posts? a lot of people (me included) explained that you don't have to spam.

If you wanna do a lot of damage WS are better then normal attacks.
If you wanna get TP there are a lot of alternatives much better then spamming normal attacks (I listed a few of them).

So if "spam" is your only argument you should spend more time learing how to play rather than whining here.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

No they aren't. "Involved and immersed" sounds like an exaggeration to me.

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Clearly you don't have any consideration as to how others feel... you should try it some time.

If many people feel this way, it's possible it's true..

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Originally Posted by Linnear

Betal I already said that they need to make the inputs better, that is part of the argument for AA, less bad commands for more good ones. I am part of this older generation of gamers out there (28) and I have seen my fair share of good games and good game ideas. FFXIV has nothing revolutionary about it, all they have is a needlessly busy combat system. AA can either allow for fewer inputs for the same results, or for the same volume of inputs with more interesting mechanics. and you stil ahve not said why AA is an "inferior soulution" or "lack luster" just saying so is not an arguement. If you want me to understand, someone is going to have to explain why AA is inferior.

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With these two comments I've come to the conclusion that those that want an auto-attack don't really give a crap about all those that enjoy battle the way it is.

Linnear,
I asked you a simple question in one of my last posts that you ignored me and didn't bother to answer.

Why do you feel we "need" an auto-attack?

I took a guess and judging by this comment I was right? (your ignoring me leads me to believe that as well)

Seems that you want to input fewer commands for the same result, no?

I explained an auto-attack that could do this without ruining battle for others.

If you want a more interesting battle Auto-attack is not the way to go..

Here's a better solution for yeah.
-Extend the queue,
-Rather then using TP to use weaponskills basic attacks would be used to open up for weaponsklls (weaponskills could now be used at any time).
-depending on the length of the combo, latter abilites in the chain would get bonuses such as increased ACC, ATT and CRT rate.

There, a richer more rewarding battle.
If you set actions to macros you can launch full strings of commands with just a quick macro selection. (you'll actually be able to press less buttons then an auto-attack.)
No more TP building (since mundane TP building seems to be a major arguement for wanting AA).

Really I just hope the devs see that adding a traditional AA is going to do more harm then good. I'm not investing in that, it's 2011 there are better solutions.

And one more time for the class....

Every action is important...

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Originally Posted by ESAR

Clearly you don't have any consideration as to how others feel... you should try it some time.

If many people feel this way, it's possible it's true..



With these two comments I've come to the conclusion that those that want an auto-attack don't really give a crap about all those that enjoy battle the way it is.

Every action is important...

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Don't slander people because they don't agree with you. In fact I would say it's been clear that a lot of people don't agree with you, considering how often this topic gets proposed, not just in official boards but every FF14 oriented boards.

Secondly, yes, every action is important. Like... attack, attack again, attack some more, and even more attack. Feels kinda automatic doesn't it.

111356 is auto attacking with 1 skill+WS. you button skills are but a pawn of overriding strategy of hacking something till it dies. And given the stamina bar, hacking something with the lowest/highest animation time is even more shallow.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

It's not like the entire battle system would be automated, just the basic attack. It's kind of a pain, especially for controller users, to have to go back to row 1 space 1 every time they want to use a regular attack. You can't keep your cursor near other skills you may need to use at a moment's notice.

I agree that there are other things they could do to fix it but it's not like auto-attack is going to ruin everything.

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Holy Christ! I know we're having a feud on another thread, but I am in complete agreement on this one. There is nothing wrong with an auto-attack function for normal melee attacks. It's not like we're asking for the AI to take over as soon as we engage and to use each ability by itself. We can activate other abilities ourselves like we did before, and perform weaponskills. This is a no-harm implementation that I can't see why anybody would have a problem with other than to just argue.

If your biggest concern is freedom, I highly doubt this would infringe on it.

Edit: Another big thing I think needs to be addressed is the TP gain. It's obtained way too easily. I think I gain 600 TP per normal hit? That's like getting 60% in FFXI as opposed to Samurai's 16-17% per hit. Only difference is that you wait, what, 5-10 seconds before you can use the same weaponskill again? And I know you can use a weaponskill with 2000 TP as well. Don't mention that.

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Originally Posted by ESAR

Linnear,
I asked you a simple question in one of my last posts that you ignored me and didn't bother to answer.

Why do you feel we "need" an auto-attack?

I took a guess and judging by this comment I was right? (your ignoring me leads me to believe that as well)

Seems that you want to input fewer commands for the same result, no?

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As usual you are making wrong conclusions with no evidence to back you up. I ignored your statement becasue I have given 4 (mabey more) in previous posts about why I want AA.

Reduce the need of useless attacks,

Integrate weapon speed, (status weapon diversity and more interesting choices of weapons as a result)

Allow for more room for what I consider more interesting attaks

Class uniqueness though weapon delays, styles of battle and various levels of busy, (15 or 30 actions per second)
remember the brd vs war point, No? Guess you missed this like every other point I made.

Give the controler people a break from going nuts and quiting this game for ever.


None of these statements claim we NEED an AA but they are all arguements for the implementation, and I have already acknowledged that these things can be done in other ways. Claiming there are other ways is not an arguement for why these ways are bad. Claiming they are lack luster does say WHY they are lack luster. If I say your MOM is fat, I can't quantify that. If I say your mom is 400 pounds therefore she is fat is better.

Here is another example.
Dude 1:
Man Chuck Norris is awsome,

Dude 2: Really? I think Bruce Lee is awsome

Dude 1: Well, Chucky does like roundhouses and doesnt' need to shave, and wears cowboy boots, thoes are all awsome.

Dude 2: Pshhh BS Chuck is Old and cowboy boots are out of style, besides I don't like shaving.

Dude 1: Ok so what is so Amazing about Bruce?


Dude 2: well he is awsome, much cooler then that old Norris guy.

Dude 1: are you kidding me Chuck has been awsome for like 30 years and he is still alive, and kicking asses, where is Lee O yea thats right he is dead, how awsome can you be if you dead.

Dude 2: Please Noriss is a has been, nothing cool there, besides there are at least 10 other guys that can kick his ass.

Dude 1: Meh, perhaps, he is still cooler then Lee.

Dude 2: yea but how can you say Norris.....

I think you can see where this is going.


Granted this a silly example but this is what the forums feel like.

someone says we want AA
someone else says STFU I like this system
someone explains why AA would be a good idea
someone else say, your reasons can not be validaded
General arguement about the various things AA can provide
AA promoters list a few ideas
AA denyers argue thoes ideas opposed to introducing their own
General Flamewar

A new thread appears.....

The first 4-5 steps are unavoidable in forums (people tend to not argue details initially sadly)
This is the step in the forums where the AA denyers NEED to give an arguement for their ideas, unless you do SE will not have enough understanding of your side to give you any real weight or credibility.

The AA denyers have yet to provide a SINGLE arguement that can be supported by a truthfull arguement or evidence againts AA other than you don't like it.(your allowed to think this and your even allowed to say so, but that is not an arguement) So unless you have a good reason why SE should keep this system your going to lose this debate. You can scream as loud as you want but just saying I DON"T WANNA will not convice someone to change something, you need to give reasons. Right now a change (or series if changes) NEED to happen, I am not convinced that AA is the best solution to fixing the combat system, but it is the only one that has any arguements for it's implementation. You can argue thoes points all day long but until you present your own AA promoters will likly win.

I use Google Translate so I don't really know what this is about, but it seems to be about Auto-Attack. This is FYI guys. Someone with better translation skills can open this discussion.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...2250#post62250

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I use Google Translate so I don't really know what this is about, but it seems to be about Auto-Attack. This is FYI guys. Someone with better translation skills can open this discussion.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...2250#post62250

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that roughly translates to:

FXIV players, nice to meet you. It is Satohiko Matsui in charge of the battle. Thanks in advance for your help.

Then I will give an explanation about the present policy at once. At first I think that the introduction of the automatic attack is necessary when I adjust the future battle balance and battle system. Anyway, this solves the present conditions that it becomes most effective to ring repeatedly, and please arrest him when I do it for a battle with the fun, a battle with the tactics characteristics more when it is one of the reviews that it is necessary.

I don't think that all is settled only by ですので, automatic attack introduction. Even other threads are given as a theme, but think that the future battle doesn't at least consist without the introduction of the automatic attack at the present stage when they take an element crossing a characteristic and the ability according to the class from the part of the root and trunk why go an action gauge and the occupation system in why a thing and a monster and raid dungeon, the equipage go many divergences where you should go to how into account and looked around the whole.

In such a premise, I assume the short thing of the attack interval generally when I compare the automatic attack in FFXIV with it of FFXI. (Even a forum is invoked well, and please permit that I start an automatic attack of FFXI as a comparison object because I have been charge. Which is good; isn't to be bad. )

It isn't a purpose that this lowers the degree of difficulty of the battle. Instead of usually attacking it when a tempo and the refreshment are so and think about a battle with the tactics characteristics that I gave earlier, it is a main purpose to prepare for the situation that can measure ability and magic, the use timing of the weapon skill. Therefore, aside from a partner of the demotion, can beat a battle by only an automatic attack basically; isn't balanced.

Because there are many item which should inspect still more and factors that must examine, it is difficult to tell you about concrete contents more than this; an a little more interval feel sick; let do it, but follow it in what try hard little, to be able to tell you about much|many information; thanking you in advance.

Hmmm, the guy that makes video games for a living, agrees that AA does does NOT reduce dificulty.. What a revelation.. I wish someone on the NA forums has been saying this...

Other than that I am glad to see that it looks like he will increase the speed of the AAs, that is a welcome change to XIs system. I am curious if there will be other TP generating abilities as well to augment the AA system. I suspect there will be since it seems like the easest way to increase actions with the loss of light attacks etc. They will likly either require a lot of stam or have a larger CD, 30 ish seconds. Personally I want a 30ish second CD, that way it does not sacrafice too many other actions. What do you guys think?

I am so disappointed. I really really really don't want auto-attack.

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Originally Posted by Paksenarrion

I am so disappointed. I really really really don't want auto-attack.

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Nobody happy enough with the current game does.

Well the problem is we have 1000's of people playing one game, some people want one thing, some people want another. I don't see auto attack really breaking anything, or causing the game to auto play. It seems to me alot of the higher level monsters have attacks you need to dodge, so you still need to pay attention. You guys also need to understand it seems like the battle system and stats are getting a rewrite. So by the time auto attack is in, assuming they take physical level out, we could loose half our damage output in exchange for balance. This is just a small piece of the puzzle, just give them a chance, and see where they go.

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Originally Posted by Martin

Nobody happy enough with the current game does.

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This. Feels like some of the few people who actually enjoy playing this mess don't want it to improve at all. Remember that being different and unique doesn't make it good. Auto-attack is a step in the right direction. This is not an action game nor is it turn-based.

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Originally Posted by ESAR

Clearly you don't have any consideration as to how others feel... you should try it some time.

If many people feel this way, it's possible it's true..



With these two comments I've come to the conclusion that those that want an auto-attack don't really give a crap about all those that enjoy battle the way it is.

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Yeah, that's how it's been going on these boards, and it's getting extremely ridiculous. Here's how it goes with almost every topic:

-Hardcore player says they want something
-Casual player says they want the exact opposite
-Hardcore player suggests a compromise, trying to meet halfway
-Casual player screams "hell no" and/or gets sarcastic, unwilling to budge from their idea... unwilling to compromise at all

Now, I'm not going to deny that there aren't insults thrown about and stupidity from both sides that complicate this process, but this is what most of the "discussions" boil down to. Hardcores are generally willing to meet halfway on a topic, while Casuals are generally completely unwilling to budge on their stance.

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This is not an action game nor is it turn-based.

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That's right, it's an MMORPG, and it's got it own style, why screwing it up and trying to make it look like another completely different game?, I still think FFXIV it's fine as it is, accept it's uniqueness, or deal with it and stay quiet.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Now, I'm not going to deny that there aren't insults thrown about and stupidity from both sides that complicate this process, but this is what most of the "discussions" boil down to. Hardcores are generally willing to meet halfway on a topic, while Casuals are generally completely unwilling to budge on their stance.

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How do you suggest we meet in the middle on the subject of auto-attack?

I propose that everyone try to see things from one-another's perspective, and wait to see the plan that SE lays out for us.

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Originally Posted by Martin

That's right, it's an MMORPG, and it's got it own style, why screwing it up and trying to make it look like another completely different game?, I still think FFXIV it's fine as it is, accept it's uniqueness, or deal with it and stay quiet.

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They aren't screwing it up, they're fixing something that's poorly thought out. I won't accept its unique flaws and I certainly won't deal with it and stay quiet. Kind of why these forums are here you know?

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Originally Posted by Linnear

As usual you are making wrong conclusions with no evidence to back you up. I ignored your statement becasue I have given 4 (mabey more) in previous posts about why I want AA.

Reduce the need of useless attacks,

Integrate weapon speed, (status weapon diversity and more interesting choices of weapons as a result)

Allow for more room for what I consider more interesting attaks

Class uniqueness though weapon delays, styles of battle and various levels of busy, (15 or 30 actions per second)
remember the brd vs war point, No? Guess you missed this like every other point I made.

Give the controler people a break from going nuts and quiting this game for ever.


None of these statements claim we NEED an AA but they are all arguements for the implementation, and I have already acknowledged that these things can be done in other ways. Claiming there are other ways is not an arguement for why these ways are bad. Claiming they are lack luster does say WHY they are lack luster. If I say your MOM is fat, I can't quantify that. If I say your mom is 400 pounds therefore she is fat is better.

someone says we want AA
someone else says STFU I like this system
someone explains why AA would be a good idea
someone else say, your reasons can not be validaded
General arguement about the various things AA can provide
AA promoters list a few ideas
AA denyers argue thoes ideas opposed to introducing their own
General Flamewar

A new thread appears.....

The first 4-5 steps are unavoidable in forums (people tend to not argue details initially sadly)
This is the step in the forums where the AA denyers NEED to give an arguement for their ideas, unless you do SE will not have enough understanding of your side to give you any real weight or credibility.

The AA denyers have yet to provide a SINGLE arguement that can be supported by a truthfull arguement or evidence againts AA other than you don't like it.(your allowed to think this and your even allowed to say so, but that is not an arguement) So unless you have a good reason why SE should keep this system your going to lose this debate. You can scream as loud as you want but just saying I DON"T WANNA will not convice someone to change something, you need to give reasons. Right now a change (or series if changes) NEED to happen, I am not convinced that AA is the best solution to fixing the combat system, but it is the only one that has any arguements for it's implementation. You can argue thoes points all day long but until you present your own AA promoters will likly win.

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There hasn't been a single argument levied in favor of AA that has any merit. Every reason that people have listed in any of these threads is something that has an underlying cause irrelevant of the presence of AA.

Argument: I don't like having to spam the same attack often and over to build TP.
Counter: All AA will do is do it for you. The real problem is TP generation. There are too many 1000-2000 TP skills and not enough 0 and 250 TP skills). Rebalancing of TP generation and usage is what's needed, not a half-arsed measure like AA.

Argument: I shouldn't need to chain together a bunch of useless attacks before I can do the cool ones.
Counter: When every single attack is 'cool', they all quickly become mediocre.

Argument: Supplements to AA like weapon speed will make the combat more interesting.
Counter: No, it won't. All weapon speed does force you into a certain combat pace, and it's an annoyance that detracts more than it helps. LotRO actually normalized all weapon speeds due to this - it was just funneling characters to certain weapon types while doing nothing to the combat system except giving the devs something else to balance.

In case you've missed the actual arguments against AA, here they are:
1. No auto-attack means you are in control of your character. You character attacks when you tell it to. Enemy charging a retaliation counter, mobs CC'd, or Reflect up on your target? Not a problem.
2. No auto-attack means you set the pace of the battle. Should you keep yourself steady and fight a battle of finesse and attrition, or gut your stamina bar trying to take down that imp before it has a chance to cast and rock your world? It's up to you.
3. No auto-attack means you're involved. I'm not sure how Satohiko Matsui can claim AA doesn't make battles easier with a straight face. Plenty of posters have mentioned plainly on these same forums that they prefer to be able watch TV while battling. If not having to even pay attention to a battle isn't an indication of what AA does for a battle system, I'm not sure what is.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Yeah, that's how it's been going on these boards, and it's getting extremely ridiculous. Here's how it goes with almost every topic:

-Hardcore player says they want something
-Casual player says they want the exact opposite
-Hardcore player suggests a compromise, trying to meet halfway
-Casual player screams "hell no" and/or gets sarcastic, unwilling to budge from their idea... unwilling to compromise at all

Now, I'm not going to deny that there aren't insults thrown about and stupidity from both sides that complicate this process, but this is what most of the "discussions" boil down to. Hardcores are generally willing to meet halfway on a topic, while Casuals are generally completely unwilling to budge on their stance.

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Actually it's the opposite.

hardcore are usually the one that don't compromise or compromise with a "90/10" and call it a compromise.

Casuals by definition, don't care much, as long as something is to their liking. Casuals don't sweat the small stuff and generally leave if they get bored with the game or the direction of the game.

That's why they're call casuals.

And I highly doubt there are many who would even care to give an opinion. They're probably on the next MMO or video game by this point. Or rather rant about it on their blog/Facebook and never speak of it again.

I play with a 360 controller and absolutely do not want automated attack. As it stands, I make a conscious choice what to do, attack or use abilities, and it makes sense and works well. The greatest negative is the timing of spamming actions and never quite being sure if you have actually started it or not, this is a matter of "feel" and timing, and some subtle changes to feedback would resolve it, unless it is trully a server timing issue and actions are being dropped, but it seems wehre that was obvious, spellcasting, has improved and I am not sure that that is the problem now.

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Originally Posted by sivant

I play with a 360 controller and absolutely do not want automated attack. As it stands, I make a conscious choice what to do, attack or use abilities, and it makes sense and works well. The greatest negative is the timing of spamming actions and never quite being sure if you have actually started it or not, this is a matter of "feel" and timing, and some subtle changes to feedback would resolve it, unless it is trully a server timing issue and actions are being dropped, but it seems wehre that was obvious, spellcasting, has improved and I am not sure that that is the problem now.

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Most likely there is a lot of communication there for anti-hacking reasons. It doesn't take a lot of effort stream line such simple inputs. If we take a FF11 input, we would know that the whole system was rigged to the animation, such that there was no way to even "speed hack" it less you take down the entire client.

But the current system has 1 queue slot. So you can buffer 1 skill above your normal skills.

And I'm not sure what you mean by conscious choice...There's conscious choice in every game. Do you mean the conscious choice to do damage...or do damage? What other choice do you have that you don't if AA was implemented...? To take the hit...for the sake of taking the hit?

As always the problem with FF14 system is it's exactly like FF11 in that you attack till you have TP, while using passive skills, and then you use a WS. I'm not sure where the conscious choice is. To...not attack?

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

There hasn't been a single argument levied in favor of AA that has any merit. Every reason that people have listed in any of these threads is something that has an underlying cause irrelevant of the presence of AA.

Argument: I don't like having to spam the same attack often and over to build TP.
Counter: All AA will do is do it for you. The real problem is TP generation. There are too many 1000-2000 TP skills and not enough 0 and 250 TP skills). Rebalancing of TP generation and usage is what's needed, not a half-arsed measure like AA.

Argument: I shouldn't need to chain together a bunch of useless attacks before I can do the cool ones.
Counter: When every single attack is 'cool', they all quickly become mediocre.

Argument: Supplements to AA like weapon speed will make the combat more interesting.
Counter: No, it won't. All weapon speed does force you into a certain combat pace, and it's an annoyance that detracts more than it helps. LotRO actually normalized all weapon speeds due to this - it was just funneling characters to certain weapon types while doing nothing to the combat system except giving the devs something else to balance.

In case you've missed the actual arguments against AA, here they are:
1. No auto-attack means you are in control of your character. You character attacks when you tell it to. Enemy charging a retaliation counter, mobs CC'd, or Reflect up on your target? Not a problem.
2. No auto-attack means you set the pace of the battle. Should you keep yourself steady and fight a battle of finesse and attrition, or gut your stamina bar trying to take down that imp before it has a chance to cast and rock your world? It's up to you.
3. No auto-attack means you're involved. I'm not sure how Satohiko Matsui can claim AA doesn't make battles easier with a straight face. Plenty of posters have mentioned plainly on these same forums that they prefer to be able watch TV while battling. If not having to even pay attention to a battle isn't an indication of what AA does for a battle system, I'm not sure what is.

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Very nice response and very true.

Unfortunately, it's coming and there's nothing we can do about it. Let's just hope we can trust Matsui when he says that AA was necessary for the new battle system he says "requires it".

Today is a wonderful day!

The developers just announced the new upcoming patches, 1.17, 1.17a, and 1.17b.
Apparently auto-attack will be finished just in time to be implemented in patch 1.17b.

Happy, Glorious Day!

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Originally Posted by Aldarin

Today is a wonderful day!

The developers just announced the new upcoming patches, 1.17, 1.17a, and 1.17b.
Apparently auto-attack will be finished just in time to be implemented in patch 1.17b.

Happy, Glorious Day!

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auto attack so soon? :D yaaaay~<3

I personally think that auto-attack is beneficial.

I am on the fence with Auto Attack. For melee jobs that are in a monster's face beating it to death, then I wouldn't mind seeing AA. On the other hand, I hate the idea of having AA on a mage job or even a ranger for that matter. Hate control is key for these roles and having your character continuously build hate when you don't want it to is NOT helpful. Here is a refresher on how we avoided it in FFXI and why it won't work as good here(or at all):

• Stay out of range: Mages now have long-range attack. You are no longer "spooning" them to death, so this won't work.
• Turn around: The main way to avoid AA from FFXI as to just turn away from the enemy. Unfortunately, in FFXIV monsters can do extra damage to you when you are turned around. Plus, many skills turn you around, like healing.
• Put away your weapon: Mages in FFXIV can use shields, so putting away your weapon means you just lost your blocking. It also increases the time it takes to cast, as now you have to waste animation time waiting on your character to go back to fighting stance.

Of course, all of this could be resolved by simply giving us the option of whether we want AA on. For my mages and ranger... you're royally screwing up my hate management. Everything else? I don't care either way. I mean, they can adjust hate management as well, but to what end? You have to keep adjusting more and more just to solve something that could be done with a flip of a switch. We'd just have to "educate" people on a constant basis to turn off their bloody AA when they are a mage though, hah!

So in the end, you want AA... fine... just let my mage turn the thing off.

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Originally Posted by Alastora

I am on the fence with Auto Attack. For melee jobs that are in a monster's face beating it to death, then I wouldn't mind seeing AA. On the other hand, I hate the idea of having AA on a mage job or even a ranger for that matter. Hate control is key for these roles and having your character continuously build hate when you don't want it to is NOT helpful. Here is a refresher on how we avoided it in FFXI and why it won't work as good here(or at all):

• Stay out of range: Mages now have long-range attack. You are no longer "spooning" them to death, so this won't work.
• Turn around: The main way to avoid AA from FFXI as to just turn away from the enemy. Unfortunately, in FFXIV monsters can do extra damage to you when you are turned around. Plus, many skills turn you around, like healing.
• Put away your weapon: Mages in FFXIV can use shields, so putting away your weapon means you just lost your blocking. It also increases the time it takes to cast, as now you have to waste animation time waiting on your character to go back to fighting stance.

Of course, all of this could be resolved by simply giving us the option of whether we want AA on. For my mages and ranger... you're royally screwing up my hate management. Everything else? I don't care either way. I mean, they can adjust hate management as well, but to what end? You have to keep adjusting more and more just to solve something that could be done with a flip of a switch. We'd just have to "educate" people on a constant basis to turn off their bloody AA when they are a mage though, hah!

So in the end, you want AA... fine... just let my mage turn the thing off.

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This hasn't been a problem for every MMO with AA, what makes you think it will be a problem here? Simple fact is, it's been solved long before FF11 was invented.

I have not seen one post on this entire thread that actually looks at the overall goals for the implementation of the auto-attack. It is very clear that the launch of FFXIV did not go so well. Poll results show that over 85% voted yes when asked "Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?" We, voted yes on that so everyone needs to stop crying now that they are doing something about it. The fact of the matter is, is that the auto-attack will do wonders to FFXIV's combat system. Currently using your basic attack does nothing to actually add skill or tactic into combat (except promote stamina management). The only reason for having a basic attack is to generate TP to use your useful skills. By automating this process, they are taking focus away from basic attack spamming and putting the focus onto useful abilities that promote skill and tactics in team play. People need to be looking at the real focus of this implementation to see that it is truly necessary. Yes, it is true that removing the current system will make combat less involving at low ranks. However, SE is not focusing on making combat exciting for rank 1's. The truth is that the implementation of auto-attack will do wonders for high rank play, making it much more skillful. That is why everyone one of us plays this game. We play to rank up, and as we rank up, there needs to be more of a challenge to keep the gameplay interesting. When you have 30 different abilities at rank 50, you should not be spamming one of them for 80% of the fight. By implementing the auto-attack, they are implementing SKILL and TACTICS into FFXIV at high rank play. I don't see how anyone can argue against that.

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Originally Posted by Alastora

I am on the fence with Auto Attack. For melee jobs that are in a monster's face beating it to death, then I wouldn't mind seeing AA. On the other hand, I hate the idea of having AA on a mage job or even a ranger for that matter. Hate control is key for these roles and having your character continuously build hate when you don't want it to is NOT helpful. Here is a refresher on how we avoided it in FFXI and why it won't work as good here(or at all):

• Stay out of range: Mages now have long-range attack. You are no longer "spooning" them to death, so this won't work.
• Turn around: The main way to avoid AA from FFXI as to just turn away from the enemy. Unfortunately, in FFXIV monsters can do extra damage to you when you are turned around. Plus, many skills turn you around, like healing.
• Put away your weapon: Mages in FFXIV can use shields, so putting away your weapon means you just lost your blocking. It also increases the time it takes to cast, as now you have to waste animation time waiting on your character to go back to fighting stance.

Of course, all of this could be resolved by simply giving us the option of whether we want AA on. For my mages and ranger... you're royally screwing up my hate management. Everything else? I don't care either way. I mean, they can adjust hate management as well, but to what end? You have to keep adjusting more and more just to solve something that could be done with a flip of a switch. We'd just have to "educate" people on a constant basis to turn off their bloody AA when they are a mage though, hah!

So in the end, you want AA... fine... just let my mage turn the thing off.

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Your missing the simple fact that there will be an attack button. You will click that button to begin auto-attacking and you can click that button again to stop auto-attacking...

Dear Dreamer,

Every one of your "actual arguments" against AA is completely incorrect.

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1. No auto-attack means you are in control of your character. You character attacks when you tell it to. Enemy charging a retaliation counter, mobs CC'd, or Reflect up on your target? Not a problem.

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The implementation of AA will only give you far greater control of your character. Stun abilities will be implemented, to skillfully counter an enemies move (and this stun ability will be much easier to use since you will not be basic attack spamming). As for the argument for CC, there will be a button that is called "attack". This revolutionary feature will allow you to begin auto-attacking when you press it AND stop auto-attacking when you press it again...

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2. No auto-attack means you set the pace of the battle. Should you keep yourself steady and fight a battle of finesse and attrition, or gut your stamina bar trying to take down that imp before it has a chance to cast and rock your world? It's up to you.

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This is also completely incorrect. This "setting the pace of battle" you speak of, is actually only the pace at which you run out of stamina from basic attacking. In any difficult battle you are going to want to kill the monster as fast as possible. This means that your stamina will be at about 20% the entire fight as you spam your abilities as fast as possible. There is no skill in conserving your stamina when you get no benefit for doing so.

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3. No auto-attack means you're involved. I'm not sure how Satohiko Matsui can claim AA doesn't make battles easier with a straight face. Plenty of posters have mentioned plainly on these same forums that they prefer to be able watch TV while battling. If not having to even pay attention to a battle isn't an indication of what AA does for a battle system, I'm not sure what is.

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More involved is a misleading phrase. You will not be any more involved with the new system than you were with the old system. However, with the auto-attack you will be involved in a much more skillful way at high rank play. If you want a more thorough description of why this is true, I advise you to read my original post above.

I'd just like to make it clear that is wasn't a post of why the implementation of AA is beneficial. This was just a post to show Dreamer why his arguments against AA are incorrect. As I have already stated, if you would like to see my full post of why AA is actually beneficial please look above.

PS - I do hope you attempt to argue against me Dreamer