Stop complaining. You wanted this.

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Originally Posted by MoonmoonMoonmoon

Just about anything, including doing something with apartments would have made everyone happier than the current split.

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SE seems to feel that the best solution to housing issues is to set it on fire, and then pour gas on it if there are any further issues

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Originally Posted by AlzabetSmallberries

I read in the past that Squeenix wanted to foster large, vibrant, active FCs....

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There's optimism and then there's being utterly naive. Counting on FC's to adequately cover everybody interested in housing features is very firmly in the latter.

FC apartments share the same drawbacks as personal ones. They're too small, interior only, no access to crossbreeding. They also include far more risk. RL happens, attitudes change, people take offense, somebody starts drama that divides the guild. All of a sudden you're no longer part of the guild. And if what I'm reading is correct if the GM's character gets deleted the FC is automatically disbanded.

FC apartments are one of the dumbest features in this disaster of a housing system. They rank up there with ward housing gating features (crossbreeding, workshops, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

You can go look at the RMT site sales pages for that.

And I don't see truth from you. I just see a lot of negativity and chicken littling.

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Again feel free to drop a screenshot since you clearly have sites on deck. The Truth is right in front of you and you refuse to see it. Allow me to paint a picture for you. Instead of increasing wards they spoke about island sanctuaries. Now ask yourself why? Don't know? The community has asked for INSTANCED housing so everyone could be happy. They are giving to us just not in the way we want. Island sanctuaries are the substitute for that. With FC housing being CURRENTLY locked to wards 1-18 all PRIVATE owners are funneled across EVERY data center to 6 wards. Now they have stated that this would change if the demand is there. (It already was before this change) But when will they open it back up? Who knows but you making these baseless claims in hopes to warm people up to this crap system is a joke. Please stop.

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

Again feel free to drop a screenshot since you clearly have sites on deck. The Truth is right in front of you and you refuse to see it. Allow me to paint a picture for you. Instead of increasing wards they spoke about island sanctuaries. Now ask yourself why? Don't know? The community has asked for INSTANCED housing so everyone could be happy. They are giving to us just not in the way we want. Island sanctuaries are the substitute for that. With FC housing being CURRENTLY locked to wards 1-18 all PRIVATE owners are funneled across EVERY data center to 6 wards. Now they have stated that this would change if the demand is there. (It already was before this change) But when will they open it back up? Who knows but you making these baseless claims in hopes to warm people up to this crap system is a joke. Please stop.

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If you're going to demand that others back up their claims, then you need to provide evidence to back up your claim that Island Sanctuary is instanced housing.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you're going to demand that others back up their claims, then you need to provide evidence to back up your claim that Island Sanctuary is instanced housing.

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The writing is on the wall. Either you can't see it or refuse to see it. Do you think SE is going to give us something like ESO? At this point in time no. Island Sanctuaries generally have everything players have wanted in their hopes for instanced housing. I think Island Sanctuaries are pretty cool tbh. They have all sorts of activities you can do on your island and your minions get to run around. To totally dismiss this being the substitute for something the community has wanted... Again, either you can see it or you can't. Time will tell right?

I'm just really hoping Island Sanctuaries are basically SE's version on Instanced Housing. It's really the only hope as the current system, while it's nice to have neighbors and the like, you rarely seem them and there's just no way to meet demand.

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

Again feel free to drop a screenshot since you clearly have sites on deck. The Truth is right in front of you and you refuse to see it. Allow me to paint a picture for you. Instead of increasing wards they spoke about island sanctuaries. Now ask yourself why? Don't know? The community has asked for INSTANCED housing so everyone could be happy. They are giving to us just not in the way we want. Island sanctuaries are the substitute for that. With FC housing being CURRENTLY locked to wards 1-18 all PRIVATE owners are funneled across EVERY data center to 6 wards. Now they have stated that this would change if the demand is there. (It already was before this change) But when will they open it back up? Who knows but you making these baseless claims in hopes to warm people up to this crap system is a joke. Please stop.

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I am disinclined to subscribe to your conspiracy theories. The sky is not falling.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

There's optimism and then there's being utterly naive. Counting on FC's to adequately cover everybody interested in housing features is very firmly in the latter.

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My point was, the demand for FC houses should be much smaller the demand for than personal, as there would be dozens to hundreds of members per FC house - and a good amount of those members would still want a private home of their own. Belonging to an FC with a house is certainly not the same as having your own space to customize (meaning the housing allotment should favor personal housing over FC, or at least have them be equal)

Looking at the current allotment across all housing districts that has occurred naturally through the click to buy process, you can see that the personal homes far outweigh FC homes, despite the fact that FC purchasers have always had a significant advantage in the click to bid purchase - as they can have multiple people taking turns and clicking together during prime time - vs one solo clicker for a personal house. I'm not sure why squeenix thought giving FC's 75% of the market was a good idea.

I have a FC apartment, an apartment in a building, and recently acquired my first private small house (I really love decorating, way too much)- so thankful I finally won a click bid just before this mess of a housing lottery came out. So many friends thought I was wasting my time clicking when lottery was just around the corner.... I do not regret that choice at all now lol

I do think there are a lot of people with houses that should have just got an apartment though lol. I love to wander through houses to check out decor/design and there is a ridiculous amount of houses sitting empty, or barely touched, just a couple items randomly set down in the middle of a room - even in large homes. If a person is not even in to decorating or using the house, why even bother getting one? Its such a waste when there are so many people that actually want to USE the features of a house

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Originally Posted by AlzabetSmallberries

...I'm not sure why squeenix thought giving FC's 75% of the market was a good idea....

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Currently for the first run of this, they want to keep all worlds the same.

As such they want to
* be cautious.
* help JP FCs who have newly formed on the servers that will soon be moved into a new DC
* help OCE FCs on the 5 new servers get their home.
* One can guess they also likely want to quantify with hard numbers how their new anti-RMT systems are working.
* as they see FCs as important, shift balance on housing a little back towards the 50% point, instead of being skewed to personal.
* rather than all at once then complete drought for months, slow adjust does then trickle feed them to personals.

I do expect that the silver lining for personals, is that when they adjust the numbers back a little in the future rounds, there will be new plots for personals to aim for.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

* as they see FCs as important, shift balance on housing a little back towards the 50% point, instead of being skewed to personal.

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The thing is though, the reason house ownership is "skewed" towards personal currently, is because the demand for personal is much higher. In the click to win system, FC house purchasers always had a much higher chance to win due to ability to have multiple clickers. Yes, they would lose sometimes to personal purchasers, but... if a FC really wanted to obtain a house, they could easily overwhelm personal clickers & win (if that was a priority to the FC) - its exactly why bots were so successful.

Just before patch, a house came up in goblet. the FC that owned the house previously had lost it due to FC lead switching servers. They were able to group together, and click away, and won their house back, boom.

TLDR; If FC house ownership were in higher demand, there would already be a higher percentage of FC house ownership in the existing housing wards. They certainly are not a lower percentage currently because it was ever harder for them to get a house than someone working for a personal house.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I'm just really hoping Island Sanctuaries are basically SE's version on Instanced Housing.

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They will be a farm game, plant, tend and harvest for the wood texture on your unenterable shack.

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Originally Posted by AlzabetSmallberries

The thing is though,

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Yep, I don't deny any of this is true from our perspective as players. More personals want homes than FC's - or there are many more personals than FCs. And FCs have always had the advantage of multiple clicking.

I can understand SE's POV though, even if we all disagree with it. A whole division release is a good time for them to get some fresh metrics to shape the future direction.

We are seeing a few facts from this - so many personal buyers are forgetting/don't know the subdivisions exist (and they have the sunrise/sunset in EMP, so, it's weird so many homes there are low number). It's surprising that they are not entering in the nicer version of snowy goblet.

FC takeup is there but low, Larges and Mediums are going in the 1-18 wards, and a few smalls are remaining untaken.

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Originally Posted by AlzabetSmallberries

My point was, ...

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My apologies if that came out wrong. My ire lays fully on Square who keeps doubling down on a system that clearly does not work. The lottery design bias towards large guilds irks me to no end. FC's need features for group activities not housing welfare.

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I do think there are a lot of people with houses that should have just got an apartment though lol. I love to wander through houses to check out decor/design and there is a ridiculous amount of houses sitting empty, or barely touched, just a couple items randomly set down in the middle of a room - even in large homes. If a person is not even in to decorating or using the house, why even bother getting one? Its such a waste when there are so many people that actually want to USE the features of a house

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Some couldn't care less about decorating a space and just want access to the features that should never have been gated by ward housing. Others had a concept in mind but just couldn't get past XIV's placement or quantity limitations. Then there's the sheer expense of many decorations. I'm not in the least surprised that many people just gave up in frustration.

The drawbacks just aren't that obvious until you have a house to decorate. I'd bet a good chunk would have let their plots go if doing so wasn't so punishing. If you immediately relinquish it you get nothing. Nope, you need to not visit it for 45 days for auto-demo to kick in and pray they don't pause. Congrats! We've refunded you half what you paid for it! Why aren't you applauding?

Most likely the majority of the player base will never have a house. Even after playing the game since 2.0 I've never once had a house in this game and it's because the entire system is really, really bad. The only integration it has at all with the main game that makes it worth it for private purchase is probably being close to a market board, a cheap teleport location, and the ability to use outdoor decorations.

I mean it's a forsaken feature that is only kept in the game on life support because if they removed it, there would be even more fire and brimstone.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

it's weird so many homes there are low number). It's surprising that they are not entering in the nicer version of snowy goblet.

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I'm assuming many people (myself included) are strategically not putting a bid on a lot until as late in the process as possible so they can bid on a lot with the least amount of competition. I have no doubt that the night before/morning of bid closing, the numbers will massively increase, within hours.

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Originally Posted by AlzabetSmallberries

I'm assuming many people (myself included) are strategically not putting a bid on a lot until as late in the process as possible so they can bid on a lot with the least amount of competition. I have no doubt that the night before/morning of bid closing, the numbers will massively increase, within hours.

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Think about what you just said, though. With potentially so many people holding off until the last minute, there is no way for you to find that plot with "the least amount of competition". There is no way to know for sure which plot will have the best chance to win unless you are literally the LAST person to bid.

For those on the busy servers, who are planning to enter last hour, please consider if you should arrive early to be sure you can enter the ward. The top 6 wards could be packed with people who entered and brought along their friends.

Might be best to do your entry counting a few hours before;

Think of the release as Prime Time, and you need about 2 to 4 hours solid clicking placards to find the one with lowest entries.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Think of the release as Prime Time, and you need about 2 to 4 hours solid clicking placards to find the one with lowest entries.

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And even then you wont find it, because there will be more players doing the same, constantly causing the value you see to be outdated. Just imagine if you see a placard which only has 100 vs an average of 160 and a highest of 200. By the time you saw that 100, if you go back it could already be at 180 because people already started bidding on it as they did their check an hour earlier. Not to mention that botters can still influence a lot in that late stage as they can decide to mass bid on a house to improve chances (on which early or late doesnt matter a lot anyway, with enough bots early bidding is actualy even more of an advantage to them as it deters others from bidding on that same house).

With medium/large houses this checking can at least be done a bit faster, but that also will just bring the counts very close to each other making the diffirence almost irrelevant (a 0.5% chance vs 0.48% chance doesnt realy matter as in both cases you are highly unlikely to win anyway).

(values are just examples, i have no idea what the actual counts are because i realy dont care as i am already expecting to not win a house anyway)

I'd say the lotto system is working out at showing where most people are navigating to first in the wards though. There is a huge disparity on the bids for houses in the private wards, and while a 1/10 chance doesn't sound like a great situation, the plots that most people naturally navigate to first from the entrance are around 30+ lotto tickets. What I find crazy is that people actually think that it's worth putting a ticket in on a plot once the number of bids is at 10 or higher. My bid went in at 9 people rather early on. I can easily say I was not expecting such foolishness when there were openings just a short jump away with far less.

Would someone take a 1/6 chance to get a house that is a bit further from the market board, or want to take a 1/33 chance on a house that is next to the market board? That's like taking a 18% chance at winning and cutting it down to less than 5%. Big brains here.

Slightly off-topic, but still, every time I see this post's headline, I gotta chuckle lol such a future-proof topic title. Although, I didn't want this :P I wanted FCFS. Rip!

And you may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"
And you may ask yourself, "Where is that beautiful house?"
And you may ask yourself, "This is not my beautiful house."
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was...same as it ever was.
And you may ask yourself, "Am I right or am I wrong?".
Letting the days go by, water flowing underground...

Here I sit content with what I have, happy I do not have to deal with SE's madness...

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Originally Posted by Shibi

They will be a farm game, plant, tend and harvest for the wood texture on your unenterable shack.

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when you put it like this sounds like welfare instanced housing lmfao. Jeez. I think it will be a lot nicer than that.

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

The writing is on the wall. Either you can't see it or refuse to see it.

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Indeed it is. The writing is pretty clear. So clear infact that SE has stated it several times.

Island Sanctuaries aren't going to be housing. Period. It's going to be its own thing, revolving around Farming and Ranching. That's all they have said. Anything else is a mixture of delusions and wishful thinking. You're setting yourself up for failure if you think it's going to be anything but just a big ol' farm.

To that end, I hope they let us tend to a herd of Chocobo. That'd be rather comfy.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Indeed it is. The writing is pretty clear. So clear infact that SE has stated it several times.

Island Sanctuaries aren't going to be housing. Period. It's going to be its own thing, revolving around Farming and Ranching. That's all they have said. Anything else is a mixture of delusions and wishful thinking. You're setting yourself up for failure if you think it's going to be anything but just a big ol' farm.

To that end, I hope they let us tend to a herd of Chocobo. That'd be rather comfy.

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After today's fiasco I hope this isn't true lol. Either way lottery seems to be shaping up to be a bust.

They should at least let you withdraw your early bought tickets from FC lotteries if there is a massive sudden surge of tickets purchased, small fcs have basically zero chance against organized big FCs that decide to dump 40 tickets into a house an hour before it ends.
It's not you vs 40 different individual participants, its you and your 5 friends vs a conglomerate.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

They should at least let you withdraw your early bought tickets from FC lotteries if there is a massive sudden surge of tickets purchased, small fcs have basically zero chance against organized big FCs that decide to dump 40 tickets into a house an hour before it ends.
It's not you vs 40 different individual participants, its you and your 5 friends vs a conglomerate.

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People called this the day lottery was announced. Most people made alts and still didn't win. The 0 bug is wild. Going to have more participants next week with less plots. Total chaos. Guess a lot of people will wait for either Sharlyan or Thavnir housing lmfao.

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

6.1 isn't even here and the salt is coming in droves. Clicking the placard was horrible it was. For us homeowners that got past it. Congrats boys we now get to watch them complain about the lottery system. I have seen a number of threads begging for a lottery system and now they have given it to you and you still complain. This is exactly what you wanted. Real housing OGs know that simply clicking buy was the best shit in the world. We could have begged to have gone back to that but instead you wanted lottery. Well when 6.1 drops you'll have it. Good luck. Odds are you'll win the cactpot before you win a house. inb4 someone says clicking the placard was better.

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Or just stop using bots to buy your houses and we wouldn't need to rely on a shaky lotto system for some semblance of fairness. Stop price gauging housing in private discords and linkshells so that someone is paying twice as much as what they should for a plot just so they can have access to the game. You really going to be up here saying "Stop complaining" when you know the point and click system you're glorifying is rife with cheating and hacking? Go eff yourself dude. You're part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Lyriah

Or just stop using bots to buy your houses and we wouldn't need to rely on a shaky lotto system for some semblance of fairness. Stop price gauging housing in private discords and linkshells so that someone is paying twice as much as what they should for a plot just so they can have access to the game. You really going to be up here saying "Stop complaining" when you know the point and click system you're glorifying is rife with cheating and hacking? Go eff yourself dude. You're part of the problem.

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No one is glorifying anything. Some housing systems were better than others. You sound upset, maybe you didn't win a house today? Lottery system clearly has not worked out this week. Maybe by next week they will fix the issues. Good luck to you. You may want to try to cactpot instead of the housing if your luck is running dry.

I mean, we had a perfectly functioning system where if you saw an empty house you could simply walk up and buy it. No bots, no bid shenanigans, no bugs, no shakiness; just you and good timing and the open road.

People hated it. So.. here we are. Your peers demanded this.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I mean, we had a perfectly functioning system where if you saw an empty house you could simply walk up and buy it. No bots, no bid shenanigans, no bugs, no shakiness; just you and good timing and the open road.

People hated it. So.. here we are. Your peers demanded this.

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This. God do I miss it.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Indeed it is. The writing is pretty clear. So clear infact that SE has stated it several times.

Island Sanctuaries aren't going to be housing. Period. It's going to be its own thing, revolving around Farming and Ranching. That's all they have said. Anything else is a mixture of delusions and wishful thinking. You're setting yourself up for failure if you think it's going to be anything but just a big ol' farm.

To that end, I hope they let us tend to a herd of Chocobo. That'd be rather comfy.

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If Square Enix was smart the Islands WOULD be instanced housing.

But we need more band aids, not solutions.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I mean, we had a perfectly functioning system where if you saw an empty house you could simply walk up and buy it. No bots, no bid shenanigans, no bugs, no shakiness; just you and good timing and the open road.

People hated it. So.. here we are. Your peers demanded this.

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It was imo better than what we have now, at least with that system if you weren't there you lost regardless. I remember reading people's threads requesting lottery for housing, I knew then it would be a ****storm, and today proved that.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I mean, we had a perfectly functioning system where if you saw an empty house you could simply walk up and buy it. No bots, no bid shenanigans, no bugs, no shakiness; just you and good timing and the open road.

People hated it. So.. here we are. Your peers demanded this.

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Lol, no bots.

Please, the old system was rife with bots and 3rd party tools. The proper solution is to address the supply problem in a way which is scalable as player populations increase. Fully instanced housing is the way to go, like how other major MMOs do it.

Limited ward housing is a failure in terms of access.

Artificial scarcity in video game for something like player housing is ridiculous.

SE should have introduced fully instanced housing a long time ago.
SE could improve upon apartments and let us upgrade them in size for gil.
Maybe make Island Sanctuary a viable alternative to ward housing.

Keep existing ward housing so that players who want exclusive ward houses can fight it out. Everyone else can go the fully instanced route.

I'm talking about the original system, which may well predate you if you think it was bot-laden.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I'm talking about the original system, which may well predate you if you think it was bot-laden.

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That ship has sailed. Try to tell current players to pay original placard prices - you'll get the RMT argument thrown at you.

More importantly, it was a short-sighted system because it didn't take into account, rising player populations.

Well, the RMT argument gets thrown at literally anything short of 'SE hands me a house for free' these days, so, you know.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Well, the RMT argument gets thrown at literally anything short of 'SE hands me a house for free' these days, so, you know.

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Probably doesn't help that every gold selling website says they make their gil from house flipping

Considering the RMT housing trade already exists and is inherently less risky to pull off, I gotta say, that claim seems rather suspect.

The RMT boogeyman is thrown around by the same people who claim capitalism is the reason why their life is so miserable.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I'm talking about the original system, which may well predate you if you think it was bot-laden.

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That was the best system by far and the cope that "that ship has sailed" is beyond me. We should be vocal about it the same way people were vocal about this lottery. Everyone thought it was what they wanted turns out it wasn't. You are seeing the Salt Mines in 4k right now across multiple sites. Some of it warranted due to the bug but most are upset they didn't win for the fourth year in a row.