Mods and cheat engine

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

What is the difference though between cactbot and some one calling out mechanics over discord which is another thing console players do not have access to.

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Hey now. I'm a console player and I use discords :O Tho yes I know what you actually mean. I'm just providing a joke. Don't mind me.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

@ OP

I agree, cheats and mods should not be allowed in this game, I know they can replace entire bodies with NSFW models, to say the least.

How does it affect me?. They can make my characters naked, and every other character at that; They can attach excessively large dongs to female characters and even though I wouldn't see it inside my game I know other players using such mods will be seeing what they shouldn't.

Besides that, allowing mods in this game might give the developers an excuse to "not upgrade the graphics", since others are doing half-as*ed jobs with their custom models.

Finally, on the business side, by allowing mods SE is letting players use paid optional items like Korean outfits without buying them, they just swap files and done.

I will welcome anything SE can do to avoid mods and cheating.

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With all that you still never said how it actually affects you, given you will never be aware in that moment if someone is seeing you differently or not. Other players see things they shouldnt? Well if they explicitly install a mod to see something they SHOULD see it rofl, you just don't agree with them doing it.

Yoshi P addressed the possibility of graphics updates before, go look it up.
The mogstation is in no danger of missing huge sales due to a mod. Every PC player I know buys from their shop, even the ones who run mods rofl.

As ever just a bunch of busy bodies minding people doing some perfectly innocent things (ledge sitting or custom poses)
You don't get to control what people do on their PC. If someone wants to turn your character into a lalafell or futa they can and SE has already said not too, not to spread such images and that they will NOT introduce invasive software for anti cheat. Mods are a huge part of big gaming communities. SE takes the stance to protect themselves and leave the community to it's own devices, unless a swathe of lala nsfw goes around and gets media attn I don't see it changing.

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Originally Posted by Apeachs

It's not harassing other players. Please read the Rules & Policies as a reminder.

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You are deliberately harassing other players by DMing them like that. You can easily be reported and banned if you continued to do so after being asked to stop.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Except it doesn't and I don't know where this idea that Cactbot does that came from.

It flashes up a bit of text like a WoW raid caller and doesn't literally go "YOU MUST MOVE TO THIS SPOT, YOU MUST MOVE TO THAT SPOT" it simply flashes the text up of what you would read anyway on boss cast bars or icon debuffs. It doesn't tell you anything else and some mechanics it tells you nothing at all.

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Except it does? For a current example, in P3S it calls out spread or stack before the animation plays. It calls out shiva before the animation plays. I don’t get why this is so hard to understand. What aren’t people understanding about this plug-in reading hidden triggers that allows it to give call outs before the visual triggers play? Why are people denying this, when it is 100% true?

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Say you've never seen Cactbot in use without saying it.

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Are you serious? What he said is exactly true. Why are you denying that? What do you gain? I’m so confused why people are flat out denying that Cactbot calls out mechanics by reading hidden triggers that are unable to be read by a human mid-fight, which allows it to call out mechanics before the visual indicators even play. It’s literally cheating. Why do you deny this? Is it because you depend on it to perform? Why do you deny it?

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Except it doesn't and I don't know where this idea that Cactbot does that came from.

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Well, if you mean "that" to be "Cactbot can read mechanics before a raid-caller can", that's absolutely true, since it's reading the network traffic. Now, like... 90% of the time, the mechanic information isn't sent to the client until just before the mechanic itself happens, so presumably while Cactbot might be half a second faster than a human raid-caller, it's not going to be massively/game-breakingly so.

But there are mechanics that have long animations where it isn't clear which animation it's playing until fairly far into the animation; in those cases, Cactbot can absolutely call way faster than a human raid-caller. An example is P3N; I'm given to understand that the server has said "this will be in" or "this will be out" when the bird sort of starts to gather itself up to begin the lengthy Experimental Fireplume castbar. So if I were to be raid-calling a normal raid for whatever reason, I'd probably say "okay, be halfway out..." as a warning as the cast started, and then wait to see see which fireball appeared and go "Okay, go OUT!" or "Get into the middle!" once it did. Whereas Cactbot could say "Get out, big AoE soon" as soon as the cast-bar started, and give maybe a... what, 2-3 second lead in that specific case? Since the animation and cast is a long one.

But on the other hand, as I mentioned in my earlier post, from what I've seen of people blindly following Cactbot—and been told by said people—there are mechanics that Cactbot cannot call in advance... or even cannot call well at all compared to a human raid-caller.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

Are you serious? What he said is exactly true. Why are you denying that? What do you gain? I’m so confused why people are flat out denying that Cactbot calls out mechanics by reading hidden triggers that are unable to be read by a human mid-fight, which allows it to call out mechanics before the visual indicators even play. It’s literally cheating. Why do you deny this? Is it because you depend on it to perform? Why do you deny it?

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Mate if it was injecting into network code, there would be a noticeable lag

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Originally Posted by Rankina

You are deliberately harassing other players by DMing them like that. You can easily be reported and banned if you continued to do so after being asked to stop.

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It's not harassing to ask players to stop doing something illegal.

Please read the Rules & Policies as a reminder.

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2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

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2.6 Hacking and Circumvention. You may not hack, disassemble, decompile, or otherwise modify the Game or server computer code, whether the Game code is located on a DVD, Blu-rayTM disc, your computer/console or on Square Enix's servers, except as expressly permitted by Square Enix or applicable law.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Say you've never seen Cactbot in use without saying it.

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I've literally read through Cactbots public sourcecode and basically all of its documentation. I also dabbled in manually writing triggers for similar plugins like trigonometry way back in the day when I was newer to the game.

You just don't like the idea that it's cheating because acceptance of that fact would probably devalue your own accomplishments.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Cactbot is cheating, and has created a generation of useless players that sandbag extremely hard on patch days.

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You know it is normal to fail mechs you see for the first time on patch day? I don't ever use cactbot, yet I still need some time for a mech to click for me and may "sandbag extremely hard" when I need more time to understand what just happened. Hell, even not on patch day and with guides released we still can go "why did I die" in savage ver just because sometimes game itself can blurp and one shot fully mitigated tank because of server lag.

So cactbot isn't at fault that people fail content they see for the first time lmao

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Originally Posted by Sarnai

You know it is normal to fail mechs you see for the first time on patch day? I don't ever use cactbot, yet I still need some time for a mech to click for me and may "sandbag extremely hard" when I need more time to understand what just happened. Hell, even not on patch day and with guides released we still can go "why did I die" in savage ver just because sometimes game itself can blurp and one shot fully mitigated tank because of server lag.

So cactbot isn't at fault that people fail content they see for the first time lmao

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You don't actually understand what I'm saying.

SE makes alterations to the game during even minor patches, which causes the FFXIV parsing plugin to break. It then has to be manually updated by its maintainer, and tested by the community before being released. This process has accelerated over the past few years, but can take anywhere from like 4 to 12 hours.

During this time, Cactbot does not work, including in content that has already been available for months. I've literally been in a static that would cancel Tuesday raids if there was maintenance, because some of the members were not confident enough to get reclears while Cactbot wasn't working

I'm impressed by how much energy people waste by hating on things that hardly impact on their gameplay and going into a fantasy witch-hunt against people using it. That paranoia is impressive, really. Don't you have, like, literally anything better to do?

However, yeah, I also feel like cactbot is kinda cheating. But is cheating in a game with zero competitive aspect even relevant?

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I've literally read through Cactbots public sourcecode and basically all of its documentation. I also dabbled in manually writing triggers for similar plugins like trigonometry way back in the day when I was newer to the game.

You just don't like the idea that it's cheating because acceptance of that fact would probably devalue your own accomplishments.

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Is weak auras cheating in WoW?

Well?

Oh no it isn't.

I play the game perfectly fine without it, thank you very much.

put it this way, watching a video, using any resources that explains mechanics and having diagrams up on another screen or phone would be cheating in your eyes and that's the problem here isn't it?

You're not actually mad about Cactbot, you're mad that other people are raiding and you don't want them in your exclusive club.

Hell markers would be cheating in your opinion and I've cleared stuff with no markers either, but you stay salty and wrapped in your little world of hateful spite, the rest of us will just play the game and enjoy progressing.

Don't much care about your devalued titles which others have gotten through ACTUAL cheating, you know getting someone else to actually pilot their character? That to me is a far bigger problem than a Weak Auras style prompt.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Is weak auras cheating in WoW?

Well?

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No, because Blizzard openly condones those plugins and even offers a rich API to facilitate them working, whereas SE expressly forbids their use. In cases where addons have run afoul of the devs vision in WoW, they've shut them down. You probably should have spent more time thinking that one over lmao.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

I play the game perfectly fine without it, thank you very much.

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/doubt

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

put it this way, watching a video, using any resources that explains mechanics and having diagrams up on another screen or phone would be cheating in your eyes and that's the problem here isn't it?

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How are these two things even comparable? Guides don't offer active, dynamic assistance based on exactly what is going on in your personal game instance. You are stretching waaay too hard.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Hell markers would be cheating in your opinion and I've cleared stuff with no markers either, but you stay salty and wrapped in your little world of hateful spite, the rest of us will just play the game and enjoy progressing.

Don't much care about your devalued titles which others have gotten through ACTUAL cheating, you know getting someone else to actually pilot their character? That to me is a far bigger problem than a Weak Auras style prompt.

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Markers are... a feature of the game. Not a third party piece of software, explicitly prohibited by the company that runs the game. >.>

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

You're not actually mad about Cactbot, you're mad that other people are raiding and you don't want them in your exclusive club.

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No, I teach people raids all the time and shotcall for pugs. I don't like Cactbot because it doesn't actually empower players, it actively makes them worse and builds unhealthy reliance. Most of my opinion about Cactbot actually comes from time I've spent mentoring people, and the problems I've observed around its use.

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Originally Posted by Apeachs

It's not harassing to ask players to stop doing something illegal.

Please read the Rules & Policies as a reminder.

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As much as I wish that was the case, the whole "innocent until proven guilty" factor means you are much more likely to get punished for calling out an obvious cheater then they are for cheating.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

No, because Blizzard openly condones those plugins and even offers a rich API to facilitate them working, whereas SE expressly forbids their use. In cases where addons have run afoul of the devs vision in WoW, they've shut them down. You probably should have spent more time thinking that one over lmao.



/doubt



How are these two things even comparable? Guides don't offer active, dynamic assistance based on exactly what is going on in your personal game instance. You are stretching waaay too hard.



Markers are... a feature of the game. Not a third party piece of software, explicitly prohibited by the company that runs the game. >.>



No, I teach people raids all the time and shotcall for pugs. I don't like Cactbot because it doesn't actually empower players, it actively makes them worse and builds unhealthy reliance. Most of my opinion about Cactbot actually comes from time I've spent mentoring people, and the problems I've observed around its use.

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word salad to say you also don't condone ACT either.

or any mods at all for that matter.

Yep, found the Gate Keeper masquerading as something else.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

word salad to say you also don't condone ACT either.

or any mods at all for that matter.

Yep, found the Gate Keeper masquerading as something else.

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Please come back with that set of goalposts, other people were using them.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

word salad to say you also don't condone ACT either.

or any mods at all for that matter.

Yep, found the Gate Keeper masquerading as something else.

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Lord, at this rate we're going to have aimbotters crying they're being gatekept.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Not a third party piece of software, explicitly prohibited by the company that runs the game. >.>

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Just to point out, no specific third party software is explicitly prohibited by the company, at least to my knowledge, although certain kinds of party software is unappreciated and certain behaviors created with or referenced by certain third party software has been discussed and mentioned as being "not allowed, BUT..."
If you were trying to say that third party software in general is prohibited by the company, or that third party software that affects the game in general is prohibited by the company, then that would also be untrue, considering that they're even currently advertising 3rd party software that affects the game in a general way.

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No, I teach people raids all the time and shotcall for pugs. I don't like Cactbot because it doesn't actually empower players, it actively makes them worse and builds unhealthy reliance. Most of my opinion about Cactbot actually comes from time I've spent mentoring people, and the problems I've observed around its use.

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Reliance on a third party, even a player in-game, is still reliance, and can lead to "unhealthy behaviors." While cactbot might not "empower players," if it behaves the way you say it does, then it just removes the need for the person explaining and marking for that specific player, and possibly the need to watch video or read documented guides in order to play.
So basically, the difference is that the program takes the place of the person who would do these things instead, and does so in a way that's, perhaps, more succinct and emotionless, vs the potentially more or less understanding and scrutinizing person who may be able to provide additional insight while providing what they believe to be "empowerment" for the player in question.

For some people, they'd rather not have to deal with the player who's trying to "empower" them, or they would prefer to have both. I can't fault anyone either way, because, in the end, the end-game is about the choreography of the fight, so once the steps are learned, it's just about continuing the dance until fatigue no longer permits it. How one goes about learning the steps, in a high-level setting of memorization, really shouldn't be a bother.
But that's just my opinion.

Worse things have been going on for years, but no. Ledge sitting is the straw that breaks the camels back. You ppl have wierd priorities.

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Originally Posted by JadedPurity

Worse things have been going on for years, but no. Ledge sitting is the straw that breaks the camels back. You ppl have wierd priorities.

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Probably because it's the easiest and most obvious visual clue that someone is modifying their game files.
That is what cheat engine does. It modifies game files/game process and everyone can see it and everyone knows it.
I don't really care tbh but people wanna be seen so they get seen lol.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

Probably because it's the easiest and most obvious visual clue that someone is modifying their game files.
That is what cheat engine does. It modifies game files/game process and everyone can see it and everyone knows it.
I don't really care tbh but people wanna be seen so they get seen lol.

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Yes, but this is minimal compared to other things (that SE knows about has has ALWAYS known about, and does nothing about as long as people keep quiet.) If they were going to do something it would have started there. Theyre not going to pick out people harmlessly sitting on ledges as the first thing they address. When people come here to complain about things that dont affect them in any way, my first thought will always be theyre just mad that they can't do it too. They dont care one bit that people are modifying files. They only care because they can't join the club and if they could they would be right on post just like this one telling the poster to stop crying and suck it up.

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Originally Posted by JadedPurity

Yes, but this is minimal compared to other things (that SE knows about has has ALWAYS known about, and does nothing about as long as people keep quiet.) If they were going to do something it would have started there. Theyre not going to pick out people harmlessly sitting on ledges as the first thing they address. When people come here to complain about things that dont affect them in any way, my first thought will always be theyre just mad that they can't do it too. They dont care one bit that people are modifying files. They only care because they can't join the club and if they could they would be right on post just like this one telling the poster to stop crying and suck it up.

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Who knows. It's the whole Limsa bean mindset really and I don't care for it personally.
I mean look at parsers. No one would know unless you said something, but people still piss and moan about some unseen threat to their ego lol.

Then again, this is interesting.
The ledge sit is quite innocent despite the fact that it does go against ToS and may be doing more.
I won't presume to know how it all works, but I'm making an assumption that these type of mods like the ledge sit that affect what other players can see is a result of it sending information to the server itself meaning this is not a mod that's affecting the user's own client but actually sending faulty information to a server that is not your IP/personal hardware. It's one thing to modify your own client, it's another to send modified information to a server.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Lord, at this rate we're going to have aimbotters crying they're being gatekept.

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I'm sorry but how does seeing cast bars and a bit of summary text equate to an aimbot?

It's not resolving the mechanics

It's not playing the game

It's not doing anything but giving a weak auras style bit of text and having information presented

That is already readily available!

Why do you hate that? Why would you even think that cheating? Dangerous road your walking because ACT is the tool that you have reading your network files and you use it, so technically would that not be you cheating as well? To gather information from a set of third party tools to understand your performance and improve it?

Now, if the tool was literally telling me exactly where to stand, what to do, everything like it's holding my hand through the fight. Then you have a point.

It literally doesn't do that. I still have to pay attention to what's going on, where I need to be, what I need to do and I don't need the tool for any of that

Oh and btw 99 parse results? Someone uses the tool themselves for optimizing don't they? Go on, you can admit it and feel no shame for doing so

Because if your shot caller is using it (which you already admitted it was happening due to a cancelled Tuesday raid because it wasn't updated)

You're using it because they're using it to optimise their callouts to you, making it easier for you to play optimally.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

The ledge sit is quite innocent despite the fact that it does go against ToS and may be doing more.
I won't presume to know how it all works, but I'm making an assumption that these type of mods like the ledge sit that affect what other players can see is a result of it sending information to the server itself meaning this is not a mod that's affecting the user's own client but actually sending faulty information to a server that is not your IP/personal hardware. It's one thing to modify your own client, it's another to send modified information to a server.

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While I can not speak for the Cheat Engine method, the same can be replicated by hex editing the hotbar file in your My Games folder. The /sit and /doze emotes function as shortcuts and the game (client) will decide which actual emote to send to the server. If the client detects you sitting on a chair, you'll play the chairsit emote. If not, you get the groundsit emote.

You hex edit a hotbar slot to make you play the chairsit emote directly rather than the normal /sit shortcut. The server will accept this input since /chairsit is a legitimate emote and the server does not care to double check if you are in fact on a chair.
If I wanted to I could back up my hotbar file to SE's servers using the character select screen and load it up on my Playstation and proceed to chairsit anywhere on the Playstation version of the game. No network hacking required in the slightest. Just manually firing an emote that is normally only fired through /sit or /doze. I imagine the Cheat Engine version does just this as well?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

As much as I wish that was the case, the whole "innocent until proven guilty" factor means you are much more likely to get punished for calling out an obvious cheater then they are for cheating.

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But doing an illegal action in public will raise questions. Some will ask how they do it, some will tell "maybe it's not smart doing so" because they simply are afraid, they might be banned. Reading the Rules & Policies as a reminder.

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2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

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2.6 Hacking and Circumvention. You may not hack, disassemble, decompile, or otherwise modify the Game or server computer code, whether the Game code is located on a DVD, Blu-rayTM disc, your computer/console or on Square Enix's servers, except as expressly permitted by Square Enix or applicable law.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

I'm sorry but how does seeing cast bars and a bit of summary text equate to an aimbot?

It's not resolving the mechanics

It's not playing the game

It's not doing anything but giving a weak auras style bit of text and having information presented

That is already readily available!

Why do you hate that? Why would you even think that cheating? Dangerous road your walking because ACT is the tool that you have reading your network files and you use it, so technically would that not be you cheating as well? To gather information from a set of third party tools to understand your performance and improve it?

Now, if the tool was literally telling me exactly where to stand, what to do, everything like it's holding my hand through the fight. Then you have a point.

It literally doesn't do that. I still have to pay attention to what's going on, where I need to be, what I need to do and I don't need the tool for any of that

Oh and btw 99 parse results? Someone uses the tool themselves for optimizing don't they? Go on, you can admit it and feel no shame for doing so

Because if your shot caller is using it (which you already admitted it was happening due to a cancelled Tuesday raid because it wasn't updated)

You're using it because they're using it to optimise their callouts to you, making it easier for you to play optimally.

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I always had the believe that using cactbot is cheating the learning process, not the end result. Cheating as in taking an unintended shortcut. But in the end I dont think you have any real advantage over someone just playing and knowing the fight well. It is kinda cringe however if someone has to cancel raid days because cactbot isnt updated.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I always had the believe that using cactbot is cheating the learning process, not the end result. Cheating as in taking an unintended shortcut. But in the end I dont think you have any real advantage over someone just playing and knowing the fight well. It is kinda cringe however if someone has to cancel raid days because cactbot isnt updated.

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Now that is a more fair analysis, that it does assist speeding up the learning process and I completely agree that people being that reliant on it that they can't raid without it probably need to be made to run without it.

There seems to be a part in yoshi p’s statement that includes about things being ok if it’s not modifying anything. But I guess we’ll just pretend that part doesn’t exist as it goes against the narrative

Edit: reading further into it, he said pertaining to calculators, to please don’t use them. External tools are prohibited and you can get banned.

He said discord and stuff are fine, but not the others people seem so set on defending and manipulating yoshi’s statements

People are just trying to justify it considering that they are feeling forced to use things like lag compensators just to play MCH and the like properly.

I'd like to add another point on the Cactbot thing.

Certain raids like E6S and P3S are hell for people with Deuteranomaly as there's no colourblind option that fixes it.

As someone with Deuteranomaly I struggled like hell with E6 and P3N simply because I couldn't see the differences in colour tones because near colours look exactly the same to me, I have to look for shapes and movement animations which might take me an extra second to decipher.

Cactbot does fix that problem for me, not because I need to rely on it because mechanically inept.

Because I literally cannot see near colours at all and SE has no option in their colourblindness modes that deals with it.

So you want to call me a cheater for finding a way to address a disability that SE failed to account for?

That probably says more about you and your ignorance tbh

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

I'd like to add another point on the Cactbot thing.

Certain raids like E6S and P3S are hell for people with Deuteranomaly as there's no colourblind option that fixes it.

As someone with Deuteranomaly I struggled like hell with E6 and P3N simply because I couldn't see the differences in colour tones because near colours look exactly the same to me, I have to look for shapes and movement animations which might take me an extra second to decipher.

Cactbot does fix that problem for me, not because I need to rely on it because mechanically inept.

Because I literally cannot see near colours at all and SE has no option in their colourblindness modes that deals with it.

So you want to call me a cheater for finding a way to address a disability that SE failed to account for?

That probably says more about you and your ignorance tbh

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Even for those who are not colorblind, P3 is kinda terrible with all the red on red animations, with a red floor and everything. And lord have mercy on you if you're playing a summoner with their VFX to go on top.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Even for those who are not colorblind, P3 is kinda terrible with all the red on red animations, with a red floor and everything. And lord have mercy on you if you're playing a summoner with their VFX to go on top.

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They really didn't QA it properly at all, I get they were pressed for time but it's just plain awful.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

I'm sorry but how does seeing cast bars and a bit of summary text equate to an aimbot?

It's not resolving the mechanics

It's not playing the game

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Solving and reading puzzle mechanics is an inherent part of this games practical execution.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

It's not doing anything but giving a weak auras style bit of text and having information presented

That is already readily available!

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Players cannot directly read network packets, which often contain information about upcoming mechanics. It also automates part of the decision making process in regards to many mechanics, removing the necessity for players to 'solve' mechanics.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Because if your shot caller is using it (which you already admitted it was happening due to a cancelled Tuesday raid because it wasn't updated)

You're using it because they're using it to optimise their callouts to you, making it easier for you to play optimally.

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A member of my raid-group was using it to assist them in solving personal responsibility mechanics that couldn't reliably be called for them by myself, as well as for timeline tracking purposes to prep for upcoming mechs. We had to cancel raid because they refused to attend that day. They were kicked from the static eventually because it turned out they were also using scripts to automate portions of their rotation. People who are willing to shortcut certain things, will often shortcut others.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

So you want to call me a cheater for finding a way to address a disability that SE failed to account for?

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Funny how this point only comes out after all of your other justifications have been refuted. Shouldn't this have been something you said earlier if it was such a critical point?

SE does largely account for this, the additional shape/animation tells you cited as relying on are intentionally created for the benefit of people that struggle with color recognition.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

A member of my raid-group was using it to assist them in solving personal responsibility mechanics that couldn't reliably be called for them by myself, .

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Busted.

Those that protest the loudest are usually the worst offenders

It was your friend....rigggght

Furthermore, it was your raid right? So if Cactbot was "cheating" in your eyes, but you knew they were using it, why didn't you kick them?

Ohh that's right, because you stood to benefit!

So Cactbot = bad, but only if you don't benefit from it.

If you do, let's act like that never happened.

We call that being a massive hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Busted.

Those that protest the loudest are usually the worst offenders

It was your friend....rigggght

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Keep flailing, you lost this argument a long, long time ago.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Keep flailing, you lost this argument a long, long time ago.

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There's no argument to be had, you admitted to being okay with what you consider "cheating" as long as you're benefiting.

You are a hypocrite and all your "work" and achievements are cheapened by it right?

C'mon, let's try to keep it civil. Even if folks don't agree, we don't need to go into personal attacks; it does no favors to the way your side of the debate comes across, for one thing.

I don't care personally if another player uses Cactbot to help them; there are mechanics that are painful for colorblind folks, there are folks who are trying to learn the fight and want guidance without having to ask someone to raid call, etc. I'm not going to begrudge them that.

Where it becomes an issue for me is when their use of Cactbot negatively impacts my experience. And whether or not folks in this thread agree on the matter of Cactbot itself, I hope we can all agree that "a member of my static refused to raid on patch day because Cactbot wouldn't work, thus inconveniencing seven other players" would count as one of those situations.

When you join a static you commit to showing up at a specific time regularly. And sometimes RL happens, sure, but if you bail on the group and leave seven other people in the lurch consistently, that's a problem.

When someone becomes reliant on an external guide—whether an automated one like Cactbot, or an organic non-bot (so far as you can prove, fleshlings) raid-caller like me—that can become a problem. But I'd argue the root of that problem isn't Cactbot (or the raid-caller), rather how the person uses them.

It merely becomes an issue more often with Cactbot because of the fact that it stops working on patch days.

If you use Cactbot as a sanity check on your own read of mechanics, and can raid on patch days just fine, no issue. If you rely on Cactbot but are doing the tier in PF and just choose not to raid when it doesn't work... well, I think you're using it wrong, but if you aren't causing problems for others it doesn't matter.

But if you are part of a static, and demand others deviate from your agreed-upon schedule when Cactbot doesn't work, I would hope we can all agree that actually does count as a problem.

Outside of ACT, I wasn't particularly aware of much outside of graphics mods until more recently.

I'm not about to start running anything beyond ACT myself, simply because even of some of those might be rather helpful (especially those which help with button bloat), I figure it's better to play without than deal with having my controls busted with each patch. It's pretty easy to go "oh, ACT's not updated yet" and just play without it. Relying on something that messes with hotbars breaking on patch day? No thanks.

There are some, judging from the plugin descriptions, that appear to be exploiting details between the client and the server that could potentially allow for things that you couldn't do without that plugin. In particular, the glamour plates one comes to mind (probably better to not dive into specifics).

That said, I really do wish SE would consider doing something about the button bloat. Some classes are really streamlined, and others just barely fit the class/role skills on 2 full pages of the cross hotbar (that's 32 unique button sequences).

I recently tried setting up my PLD on my PS4 to see if I could put up with that until the PC sound issue is fixed, and although SE has done a wonderful job of creating a basic setup for controller play, I was rather annoyed to figure out that I needed all 32 combinations just for each unique class/role skill, and then still needed the double-tap L2/R2 features to add things like sprint, LB, teleport, return, and mount.

Without completely dropping skills from my hotbar, it left no real wiggle room to group related skills together the way I'd like leading to some awkward button combinations required for certain scenarios in order to favor more common scenarios. Overall, I felt like I couldn't come close to the level of play I'm used to. I know a good deal of that comes down to practice, but when each action potentially requires 3 ordered key presses, having situations where you're trying to weave some OGCD in between two GCDs that differ in one of the first two key presses leads to a need to press buttons very quickly. If that happens during a GCD where you would ideally double-weave, you're suddenly needing to do somewhere in the ballpark of 3+ ordered button presses per second to avoid clipping your GCD. What if you're tying do that and switch targets in between? I hope your controller has a solid retirement plan.

It's why, the few times I've tried to set up controllers, that I'll duplicate some OGCDs to different places so that I can hit them easily between whatever GCDs I happen to without having to release L2/R2 or do no more than add the other to the single I'm already holding.

Making PvE combos work more along the lines of how they work in PvP would go a long way to making things more flexible on controller.

If anything, I'm somewhat hopeful that things like that will get the console players to cry foul to the point where SE just incorporates QoL tweaks into the base game so everyone enjoys it without it being PC-specific or break with every patch.

It'd be nice if plugins could be officially supported, but I'm pretty sure Sony would be the biggest hurdle even if SE was all for it otherwise. Sure, SE could just ignore that problem and provide it to PC users, but that wouldn't be very fair.