More action oriented combat{again}

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

He's welcome to go to Tera then. I just hope it comes with him stopping with posting inane ideas with a new thread, every three days.

As fast paced as the action is already in this game, this isn't an action MMO. We're a far, far cry technology wise form having Dissidia Final Fantasy Online. And honestly, that would be more like the route I would like to Square Enix take with an Action MMO.

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Rokien will never leave us sadly, I try not to post in these topics but silliness that comes from it draws me in. ._.

Is there anything to do while Auto Attack is going along and you are waiting for TP to build before you can use a Weaponskill?

I'm not into action or shooting games at all, but Archer is the only non-mage class I enjoy because I don't have to sit idle while waiting for TP to build.

Auto Attack kind of made the melee classes boring for me. But maybe it's because I use a controller, not a keyboard...

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Its funny no one gives a valid reason why.

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You would like to speed up your chances of carpel-tunnel syndrome button mashing?

You would like to spend 5 minutes killing weak mobs?

You would like an awkward interface that's hideously slow and so simplistic in concept it rivals stone age DOS RPG's?

You would like to start a combo, have to wait on your action bar to fill to start the next in the chain, and take like another 10 seconds to be able to finish the 3rd combo?

No Thank You Sir! I'd rather not!

WTF, why are we still fussing about this?

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

You would like to speed up your chances of carpel-tunnel syndrome button mashing?

You would like to spend 5 minutes killing weak mobs?

You would like an awkward interface that's hideously slow and so simplistic in concept it rivals stone age DOS RPG's?

You would like to start a combo, have to wait on your action bar to fill to start the next in the chain, and take like another 10 seconds to be able to finish the 3rd combo?

No Thank You Sir! I'd rather not!

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/Rokien

I see no validity in your comment!

FFXIV turned into a boring TERA.

We have all the stupid things TERA has without the fun combat. So we might as well take that too.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

Rokien will never leave us sadly, I try not to post in these topics but silliness that comes from it draws me in. ._.

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Rokien reminds me an awful lot of gifthorse. Wouldn't surprise me if it's yet another incarnation of him. Maybe it is and I just haven't seen it confirmed.

He has the same overall M.O; arguing that an old system that was removed because the majority hated it was somehow better, insisting it should be re-implemented but in ways that would make it better for him, and basically saying, in not so few words, "I already know that I'm right, and none of you can prove me wrong, no matter what you say."

gifthorse to a 'T'.

I play TERA along side this, and I can say that the difference in TERA, where combat is concerned, isn't just that "it's more action-based than XIV". The entire experience has a different feel in TERA. Not only with what the players are doing, but with the mobs as well. The mobs will dodge, roll out of the way, leap backwards and so forth. The way mobs in XIV are more about facing you head on, it just wouldn't work without a complete overhaul of a number of systems, the combat, the mob AI, and any other system those two things have any effecton what-so-ever.

As for XIV's system, I personally see nothing wrong with it, beyond the targeting being wonky sometimes. I have enough to keep me busy during fights, especially against multiple mobs. I have choices to make that can help me control the fight and put the odds of victory in my favor (or at least do more damage before dying myself, as the case sometimes is :).

I enjoy TERA's combat system a lot. I also enjoy FFXIV's combat system a lot. They're very different and require a different kind of interaction. I find TERA's combat to be more about remaining mobile (as a melee character), dodging, circumventing, counter-attacking, etc. It's all very quick and real-time and frantic at times. Sometimes that's what I'm in the mood for.

On the other hand, I find FFXIV's combat to be more on the side of requiring "mental agility", so to speak. There are situations where I have to be able to think quick and use the right skill or get out of the way, know it's time to run, etc. The combat itself, though, is more "paced" and less frenetic. Sometimes that's what I'm in the mood for.

I find the two games counter-balance each other nicely, in combat and in other areas. Some people prefer one style all the time. Some prefer the other all the time. Some prefer a mix of both at different times (like myself). There's nothing wrong with that.

Generally speaking, just because you (in general) might see something you really like in another MMO, does not mean it would automatically work in FFXIV, or otherwise make it better. But boy do I see that a lot; "such and such MMO has "x", and I liked it. So, FFXIV should have "x" as well. It would make the game so much better!". It's not that cut and dry. "x" feature works in "that other MMO" because "that other MMO" was designed around it from the get-go.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Generally speaking, just because you (in general) might see something you really like in another MMO, does not mean it would automatically work in FFXIV, or otherwise make it better. But boy do I see that a lot; "such and such MMO has "x", and I liked it. So, FFXIV should have "x" as well. It would make the game so much better!". It's not that cut and dry. "x" feature works in "that other MMO" because "that other MMO" was designed around it from the get-go.

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Well that's Yoshi's philosophy from his first day on the job. FFXIV was not designed to be instance-heavy nor have crafters marginalised, but that's what happened regardless because "other MMOs did it" or "it's standard in other MMOs". So until FFXIV goes back to its roots in design philosophy, people have a right to say "give us more action oriented combat".

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Is there anything to do while Auto Attack is going along and you are waiting for TP to build before you can use a Weaponskill?

I'm not into action or shooting games at all, but Archer is the only non-mage class I enjoy because I don't have to sit idle while waiting for TP to build.

Auto Attack kind of made the melee classes boring for me. But maybe it's because I use a controller, not a keyboard...

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IMO, if you're sitting idle waiting for TP to build, you're doing it wrong. Especially on Dragoon.

Combos keep TP costs low, and Invigorate is not a Lancer Specific ability. While Auto-attacking you should be lining up your buffs, keeping your positioning properly organized.

On jobs that cannot use Invigorate - you have many sub abilities to utilize from other jobs particularly outmaneuver for MAW/WAR and GLA/PLD who are both tanks.

Really there should be no reason why you're just sitting idle in combat waiting for TP to gain, unless you upped and missed a whole bunch and burned your cool-downs. Plenty of skills and abilities to keep cycling.

- On a side-note: I'm brainstorming for a good name for my campaign to strike a medium of reason between Casual and Hardcore.

I'm already outlining together my thoughts on specific issues and ideas how to solve them. Even working on a section detailing why appealing to just one base or another is bad.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

Well that's Yoshi's philosophy from his first day on the job. FFXIV was not designed to be instance-heavy nor have crafters marginalised, but that's what happened regardless because "other MMOs did it" or "it's standard in other MMOs". So until FFXIV goes back to its roots in design philosophy, people have a right to say "give us more action oriented combat".

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are you retarded? crafters marginalized? wowwwww

the more crafts i level, the more money i make. it doesn't even take any effort. what planet are you living on?

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Originally Posted by fusional

are you retarded? crafters marginalized? wowwwww

the more crafts i level, the more money i make. it doesn't even take any effort. what planet are you living on?

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They are, Tanaka wanted crafters to be just as important as dow/m. He infact wanted them to fight a long side dow/m. Though crafters now, are just the same as any other game.
You do it to make money.

Crafters are going way back in the back. Even yoshi said he is going to make crafters not part of the story, not as important. You HAVE to have a DoW/m leveled. Before you didn't, Tanaka was going to make it where you could spend the whole game time playing doh/l

I was about to say. Crafters have the best position in this game. The majority of the best equipment in this game is crafted. Yoshi actually made it fairly clear that his intent is to make crafted gear the best gear in the game. They've even gone so far as to say Legendary weapons will have crafted components.

Crafting can only get better so long as Yoshi holds this policy.

Instanced equipment right now is on the up-rise because we're shifting to 2.0 and as we get closer, crafting is undergoing a major overhaul. It's easier to shell out instance gear to keep people occupied while crafting goes through this change. But honestly, don't expect instance gear to be above HQ crafted gear for long.

A lot of people are making a whole heckload of assumptions with a game STILL in major transitions towards a full restart.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Now, I've made this thread a while back ago when they first put in auto attack. It did get blocked because we got off kilter and started talking about other games, a lot.
So, I'm just wondering how many of you would like our old combat system back in place if it was improved on. please note: 1111111=LT(left trigger)LtLtLtLtLt. It's just how you perceive it. So, would you guys would have rather BUILD and make that battle system better or just stick with AA, because really, I know how much you guys like to stay with the "modern" mmo, and the "modern" mmo is more 111111 oriented.

As for me I would have loved to see yoshi build on top of that battle system(make it better). Instead of just doing a cheap/safe AA style, because really AA is sooo 2001. Yes it works, but really, I like to be involved in my games.

So, in 2.0 would you guys like a change in the battle system?

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I would like a more dynamic battle system. Something more fun and that requires actual Skills. I played a MMO recently that start with a T, the battle system plays like an action game more than a traditional MMORPG. Whit such a system skills come first when battling.

With the old school MMO battle system like XI, XIV or WOW, i don't see much skills in there. Any moron can memorize a rotation and figure out which spell to click and when. Most of the time you just stand still , do your memorized rotation and use the appropriate spells. I want something that feels fresh, more action based, where you gotta move, dodge and evade and much more.

I love that Yoshi-P is making some bosses in 2.0 with different parts of their body you can target just like the old FF games. That is an awesome addition to the battle system but they should do more and change it for normal battles too.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

- On a side-note: I'm brainstorming for a good name for my campaign to strike a medium of reason between Casual and Hardcore.

I'm already outlining together my thoughts on specific issues and ideas how to solve them. Even working on a section detailing why appealing to just one base or another is bad.

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Im workign under the concept of Chillcore. Join me!

Some people need to read more than just the first page before jumping into the conversation.

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

Im workign under the concept of Chillcore. Join me!

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lol. That's a good buzzword.

Chillcore: A Medium of Reason

I kinda like the sound of that.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I was about to say. Crafters have the best position in this game. The majority of the best equipment in this game is crafted. Yoshi actually made it fairly clear that his intent is to make crafted gear the best gear in the game. They've even gone so far as to say Legendary weapons will have crafted components.

Crafting can only get better so long as Yoshi holds this policy.

Instanced equipment right now is on the up-rise because we're shifting to 2.0 and as we get closer, crafting is undergoing a major overhaul. It's easier to shell out instance gear to keep people occupied while crafting goes through this change. But honestly, don't expect instance gear to be above HQ crafted gear for long.

A lot of people are making a whole heckload of assumptions with a game STILL in major transitions towards a full restart.

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Actually crafted gear is only good because of materia, before materia, what did we have. Crafted gear was the best because of Tanaka. Remember the Roaming Nms?

TERA has one redeeming feature, the combat system.

FFXIV is set to be a carbon clone of every other MMO, only without that one redeeming feature. FAIL.

World NMs were horrible for the game the way they were done.

Rare/Ex items unlike any others in the game, superior to the majority of items. Dropping exclusive items REQUIRED for high level crafts. It bottle-necked the economy and paved the way for cheaters and RMT to effectively stranglehold FFXI for the longest time.

If World Bosses are going to be done right, they have to bypass the old conventions of exclusive permanents and monster monopoly.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

TERA has one redeeming feature, the combat system.

FFXIV is set to be a carbon clone of every other MMO, only without that one redeeming feature. FAIL.

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So why are you here?

Oh, right, because the game's free right now, eh?

There are a lot of things that are unique to FFXIV, and it's not even reached 2.0 which is set to have a lot of revisions on its own.

Tera's combat is good, but as you said, it is it's ownly redeaming feature.

FFXIV has distilled Questchains into a perfect repeatable formula. They also created a fairly effective means of isolating the amount of influence RMT have on the game.

Pair this off with FF's icons and some of the best player-developer communication gaming has seen period and there's a formula for success here.

You can make Auto-attack systems exciting.
Final Fantasy has a good track record for enjoyable stories in spite of previous mishaps.

Of course, every game stems to have improvements needed. MMOs in general are a constantly changing beast. But if you're going to sit and casually insult it without actually exploring, then don't expect a warm welcome to the community.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

World NMs were horrible for the game the way they were done.

Rare/Ex items unlike any others in the game, superior to the majority of items. Dropping exclusive items REQUIRED for high level crafts. It bottle-necked the economy and paved the way for cheaters and RMT to effectively stranglehold FFXI for the longest time.

If World Bosses are going to be done right, they have to bypass the old conventions of exclusive permanents and monster monopoly.

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You're kidding that World nms were horrible. The nms Tanaka put in were amazing~

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Now, I've made this thread a while back ago when they first put in auto attack. It did get blocked because we got off kilter and started talking about other games, a lot.
So, I'm just wondering how many of you would like our old combat system back in place if it was improved on. please note: 1111111=LT(left trigger)LtLtLtLtLt. It's just how you perceive it. So, would you guys would have rather BUILD and make that battle system better or just stick with AA, because really, I know how much you guys like to stay with the "modern" mmo, and the "modern" mmo is more 111111 oriented.

As for me I would have loved to see yoshi build on top of that battle system(make it better). Instead of just doing a cheap/safe AA style, because really AA is sooo 2001. Yes it works, but really, I like to be involved in my games.

So, in 2.0 would you guys like a change in the battle system?

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I do would want the old battle system back. Since the very start i said that moving back to AA was a step backward. I find the current battle system horrid in every single aspect so yes, i'd support the change back to old battle system...even if not improved at all.

Still I find the worst thing about combat in FFXIV, either old or new, is the sound it makes when you select an action. Would it kill them to change it? Because it's certainly killing us.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

You're kidding that World nms were horrible. The nms Tanaka put in were amazing~

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FFXI's world NMs were absolutely terrible. FFXIV's previous roaming NMs did have exciting battles, but again, if it followed the same underlining system as FFXI, then it suffers from the same extremely terrible flaws.

I'm not saying do away with world bosses. I'm saying revamp the loot and claim systems surrounding them.

I cannot stress this enough - unchecked aggressive competition and monopolization is critically bad for a game's overall health. It's choked every MMO to date down to its minimal hardcore base - encouraged RMT and 3rd party abuses and bottlenecks the entire game economy.

Epic fights? Yes please.
Dragon's Aery-2? F^*& No!

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

Still I find the worst thing about combat in FFXIV, either old or new, is the sound it makes when you select an action. Would it kill them to change it? Because it's certainly killing us.

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You'll have the option to turn it off in 2.0, I believe - there has been comments like yours to have options like that.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

I do would want the old battle system back. Since the very start i said that moving back to AA was a step backward. I find the current battle system horrid in every single aspect so yes, i'd support the change back to old battle system...even if not improved at all.

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I cannot disagree more, and I play on a controller.

What you're forgetting is that the previous system still had server side lag for ever input action, including your basic attack.

There honestly was no redeeming value in that system of combat as it horribly restricted your action inputs by forcing you to deal with a continually lagged queue system.

Granted, I'm not asking for FFXI's combat system of "wait, press third party macro button for ws, repeat until JA timer is up" either. FFXIV strikes a good balance between and can be developed on further.

If anything, auto attack, or the battle pacing in general could be quicken across the board. But we shouldn't have to press a button for our most basic attack. Instead we should be primarily focused on our combo attacks, attack positioning, etc.

I said previously that the best thing SE could do with an Action MMO would be to made a Dissidia Final Fantasy Online. To elaborate further - they could bypass 'normal' attacks all together and the TP system and focus only on the combos and special moves - using skill timers and target/player conditions as the controlling means of use for specific abilities. But honestly, this level of focus can be achieved with the current system by you just ignoring the fact that Auto Attack exists and focusing primarily on what you're supposed to do - combo effectively and using your abilities to exemplify your role.

Consider TP your global cool-down timer and your Auto Attacks a DoT attack that is triggered by you going into Active mode.

As far as my critique of the current combat system - they could inch the speed of combat up a little, as well as provide a 'quickstep' or 'dodge role' positioning tool.

And for goodness sake let monsters and characters both be knocked on their butts. Just those would be a huge boon for the feel of action in the game.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

FFXI's world NMs were absolutely terrible. FFXIV's previous roaming NMs did have exciting battles, but again, if it followed the same underlining system as FFXI, then it suffers from the same extremely terrible flaws.

I'm not saying do away with world bosses. I'm saying revamp the loot and claim systems surrounding them.

I cannot stress this enough - unchecked aggressive competition and monopolization is critically bad for a game's overall health. It's choked every MMO to date down to it's minimal hardcore base - encouraged RMT and 3rd party abuses and bottlenecks the entity game economy.

Epic fights? Yes please.
Dragon's Aery-2? F^*& No!

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However, this would be easily fixed here tho. As a casual-friendly, stressfree, goal-oriented game (by then) it would be expected to have leves balancing this if we ever get close to a claim monopoly. What would be the point of risking a ban with claim bots if you could, from time to time, fight that NM at leves?

You can see this line of development at FFXI as well, where stuff that were having bot issues changing to forced pop and/or BCNM.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

TERA has one redeeming feature, the combat system.

FFXIV is set to be a carbon clone of every other MMO, only without that one redeeming feature. FAIL.

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You're free to stop paying for this game and go play Tera, I;m sure many people would not miss a person with an attitude like yours. >.>

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Originally Posted by Lienn

However, this would be easily fixed here tho. As a casual-friendly, stressfree, goal-oriented game (by then) it would be expected to have leves balancing this if we ever get close to a claim monopoly. What would be the point of risking a ban with claim bots if you could, from time to time, fight that NM at leves?

You can see this line of development at FFXI as well, where stuff that were having bot issues changing to forced pop and/or BCNM.

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Both were good systems which could be refined further here.

I've a more compressible list that I'm working on to create a balance between the demands of Hardcore and Casual base. Taking in the depth of my experiences in MMOs as well as keeping in mind the typical tropes of both gamers and the Final Fantasy brand.

I've actually got the outlines right next to me here at work.

The first post, or first thread (Not sure if I want to separate these issues by thread or just have them be linked posts in one thread for ease of reference.) Is going to detail the reasons why a hardcore only or casual only development path is horrible for the game's health. Both extremes, after all won't produce the success this game is looking for.

I'm also detailing common and major issues that need to be contended with. World Bosses is actually the first I touched upon under the Loot category.

Haven't even started the game-play category yet.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

They are, Tanaka wanted crafters to be just as important as dow/m. He infact wanted them to fight a long side dow/m. Though crafters now, are just the same as any other game.
You do it to make money.

Crafters are going way back in the back. Even yoshi said he is going to make crafters not part of the story, not as important. You HAVE to have a DoW/m leveled. Before you didn't, Tanaka was going to make it where you could spend the whole game time playing doh/l

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Vision and application are two drastically different things, and while it would have been cool to see botanists set traps, miners dig trenches, and carpenters and blacksmiths fortify defenses, I cannot for the life of me see this becoming commonplace in the game outside of instances like Hamlet Defense or Besieged or something. Anywhere else, it seems like it would be entirely impractical to actually find some kind of use for DoL/H, in common settings like Exp or Instanced Dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

You can see this line of development at FFXI as well, where stuff that were having bot issues changing to forced pop and/or BCNM.

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Unfortunately, that reasoning doesn't really hold weight considering they made that change just over a year ago and the games almost 10 years old now. It would have been viable had they made major effort to counter these issues back when bots were starting to rear their ugly heads back in 04-05, but the most they ever did was slightly extend the claim delay and the bots were eventually adjusted to get around it.

While I agree Tanaka has had some great ideas and visions for his games, he's really made little effort to actually addressing the needs of the player-base over his visions. I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase "Working as intended" correct? If it is that's great. However when a player points out major flaws/exploits in application, it doesn't matter how well it "Works" in their eyes. If they aren't willing to take constructive criticism and try to fix the flaws in their vision (or actually fix their fixes in some cases) then it's just like leaving an infected wound untreated and trying to treat it after you've gone into septic shock, too little too late. Unfortunately for us, Tanaka has been notorious for this behavior.

While the kings were changed like an year ago only, the concept is much older, with the change regarding other items, like emperor hairpin, KC and other highly appealing NM loot were, over time, moved to rare/EX at NMs and/or moved to BCNM.

And about Tanaka not putting effort regarding the players' "needs", allow me to offer you a somewhat old post...

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f018ec5fb504d2

Just check out what we would have since like january of 2011 (by then patches were monthly)...stuff that we are asking still were meant to be added by then. Unfortunately this patch never happened due the dev team change...but was never lack of effort of the original FFXIV dev team in neither improving the game nor hearing the players' feedback.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

While the kings were changed like an year ago only, the concept is much older, with the change regarding other items, like emperor hairpin, KC and other highly appealing NM loot were, over time, moved to rare/EX at NMs and/or moved to BCNM.

And about Tanaka not putting effort regarding the players' "needs", allow me to offer you a somewhat old post...

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f018ec5fb504d2

Just check out what we would have since like january of 2011 (by then patches were monthly)...stuff that we are asking still were meant to be added by then. Unfortunately this patch never happened due the dev team change...but was never lack of effort of the original FFXIV dev team in neither improving the game nor hearing the players' feedback.

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Thank you for posting that, I've been looking for it!!! ; ; gosh now I'm sad, that's the game I payed for.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Thank you for posting that, I've been looking for it!!! ; ; gosh now I'm sad, that's the game I payed for.

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That makes 2 of us. ^^ I actually didn't give up seeing this tho. As William Turner (Pirates of the Caribbean) would say, "There is no lost cause if there is but one fool left to fight for it.". ^^

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Originally Posted by Lienn

That makes 2 of us. ^^ I actually didn't give up seeing this tho. As William Turner (Pirates of the Caribbean) would say, "There is no lost cause if there is but one fool left to fight for it.". ^^

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Sadly this isn't Pirates of the Caribbean lol. In the real world there is no way a company that wants to make money is going to do something for 1 fool when it would make them lose even more customers just to make that 1 fool happy.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

Sadly this isn't Pirates of the Caribbean lol. In the real world there is no way a company that wants to make money is going to do something for 1 fool when it would make them lose even more customers just to make that 1 fool happy.

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Excuse me? I'll just assume you think i'm asking for them to discard the 2.0 and return to the original project as XIV? No sir, it would be WAY too much stupidity to even consider a valid idea...but there are more than one way of seeing the game again. I support the idea of having the original FFXIV development restored as a spin-off game.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

Excuse me? I'll just assume you think i'm asking for them to discard the 2.0 and return to the original project as XIV? No sir, it would be WAY too much stupidity to even consider a valid idea...but there are more than one way of seeing the game again. I support the idea of having the original FFXIV development restored as a spin-off game.

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Huh? I didn't say anything about the game at all O.o. I just said in the real world companies want to make money and that sadly this isn't Pirates of the Caribbean. What is on your mind?

We have voice chat?

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Originally Posted by Lienn

While the kings were changed like an year ago only, the concept is much older, with the change regarding other items, like emperor hairpin, KC and other highly appealing NM loot were, over time, moved to rare/EX at NMs and/or moved to BCNM.

And about Tanaka not putting effort regarding the players' "needs", allow me to offer you a somewhat old post...

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f018ec5fb504d2

Just check out what we would have since like january of 2011 (by then patches were monthly)...stuff that we are asking still were meant to be added by then. Unfortunately this patch never happened due the dev team change...but was never lack of effort of the original FFXIV dev team in neither improving the game nor hearing the players' feedback.

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How long did it take for those NM drop changes to happen? Four years.
How long did it take for SE to add more ways to get griefed items like V. Claws, Divine Logs, D. Ingots/Cloths, Sniper Rings? Three maybe Four years after gilsellers and botters became big.
How long did it take him to address the Salvage Dupes that resulted in tons of players getting banned? Over a year.



While I'll give you the turn over to Yoshi's team did cause a delay in some of the aspects of the development of FFXIV. The fact that Tanaka had so much time to develop the game, he really had no excuse for the major lack of playability during the initial release of FFXIV. He had four+ years to work on this game, he didn't even have the most basic necessary UI features fully developed at launch. Him claiming he was rushed when his overall progress in FFXI's development largely consisted of minimized effort rehashing zones, small 10 page long storyline episodes, and reused characters only enforces my point, his focus was on FFXIV and he still botched it big time. His timelines are not reliable in the least either, after he was removed from FFXIV's team and posted a timeline for a years worth of FFXI development, half of the proposed changes never took effect, those that were implemented were given minimal effort and thought, and the often were extremely behind schedule.

The point is he takes too long to try and address the damage and fix it when it can be repaired. And I honestly do not think he was capable of fixing the major issues and problems that were in this game within a reasonable time-frame before what few loyal players left would leave in frustration.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

That makes 2 of us. ^^ I actually didn't give up seeing this tho. As William Turner (Pirates of the Caribbean) would say, "There is no lost cause if there is but one fool left to fight for it.". ^^

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This is me asking your little cat lady out, wanna go out? :P

ps: I assume everyone is a guy until proven guilty.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

How long did it take for those NM drop changes to happen? Four years.
How long did it take for SE to add more ways to get griefed items like V. Claws, Divine Logs, D. Ingots/Cloths, Sniper Rings? Three maybe Four years after gilsellers and botters became big.
How long did it take him to address the Salvage Dupes that resulted in tons of players getting banned? Over a year.



While I'll give you the turn over to Yoshi's team did cause a delay in some of the aspects of the development of FFXIV. The fact that Tanaka had so much time to develop the game, he really had no excuse for the major lack of playability during the initial release of FFXIV. He had four+ years to work on this game, he didn't even have the most basic necessary UI features fully developed at launch. Him claiming he was rushed when his overall progress in FFXI's development largely consisted of minimized effort rehashing zones, small 10 page long storyline episodes, and reused characters only enforces my point, his focus was on FFXIV and he still botched it big time. His timelines are not reliable in the least either, after he was removed from FFXIV's team and posted a timeline for a years worth of FFXI development, half of the proposed changes never took effect, those that were implemented were given minimal effort and thought, and the often were extremely behind schedule.

The point is he takes too long to try and address the damage and fix it when it can be repaired. And I honestly do not think he was capable of fixing the major issues and problems that were in this game within a reasonable time-frame before what few loyal players left would leave in frustration.

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I can't agree with this more, I bet would not even have half the content we have now if it wasn't for Yoshi-P.

I really don't see how the current battle system is like the (1111111 2 111 3 111111 4 11111 2 (down) 5 (up) 1111....) system that we had before. Even just looking at the buttons we press....

As a LNC....I'll map the keys I actually press on a sample fight against a 52 pieste. Note that I am starting on the my first bar, and am fully buffed with Protect and Stoneskin on beforehand. (That will be an additional (up) 2 3 but I won't count those since that was way before fight.)

*Start battle*

(5 - engage enemy - (down) 1 5 (up) 1 2 4 3 (down) 3 2 5 (up) 6 7 8 0 9 (up) 1 (down) 1 (down) 7....)

Actions in order:
Invigorate
-engage enemy-
Featherfoot
Life Surge
(up button)
True Thrust
Leg Sweep
Blood for Blood
Doomspike
(down button)
Sentinel
Second Wind
Life Surge
(up button)
Vorpal Thrust
Impulse Drive
Hawk's Eye
Keen Flurry
Chaos Thrust
(up button)
Cure
(down button)
True Thrust
(down button)
Heavy Thrust

As you can already see, that certainly does NOT look like the 11111111 spam we had before. It's different for ARC, but the mechanics for ARC are different as they're actually using an item. There's also plenty of movement of my LNC around the pieste as well.

Of course, there ARE situations where you are liable to be pressing the button over and over again when it is near it's timer, such as during Garuda fight where timing is of the essence. But even so, that's not the 1111111 spam we had before, as each 1-1-1-1-1 actually did an attack, while the spamming of a button for a WS only activates once.

EDIT: Of course, you have to take into consideration that this post cannot be used to perfectly compare the previous combat system to the current. I did not do any testings as to the level of 'spamming' of buttons of the previous combat system, and now it is of course far too late to do so. We can only rely on our memory and judgement for that kind of comparison.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lienn

While the kings were changed like an year ago only, the concept is much older, with the change regarding other items, like emperor hairpin, KC and other highly appealing NM loot were, over time, moved to rare/EX at NMs and/or moved to BCNM.

And about Tanaka not putting effort regarding the players' "needs", allow me to offer you a somewhat old post...

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f018ec5fb504d2

Just check out what we would have since like january of 2011 (by then patches were monthly)...stuff that we are asking still were meant to be added by then. Unfortunately this patch never happened due the dev team change...but was never lack of effort of the original FFXIV dev team in neither improving the game nor hearing the players' feedback.

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The entirety of that was wishful thinking on Tanaka's part. He did not even have the core basic systems of the game in place and fuctioning properly by the time release came out.

Again, this sort of "Hh this is the game I payed for!" holds no weight, 3 years into redevelopment. We voted for massive changes to this game. We voted for the overhaul. If you didn't get what you wanted out of it, it was because you were outweighed.

That's not to say, as I have said many times before, that things cannot be re-introduced.

To spoil a bit of "A Medium of Reason"

I am waiting on Battle Regimen or some sort of team attack system. I've already given my suggestion that Battle Regimen should function like Chrono Trigger's attack system. Someone in the party activates Battle Regimen, and queues up an ability (Say for simplicity's sake let's restrict this to job specific attacks and abilities.) And those who try to add to the ability my come up with a unique 'Regimen Skill"

Dragoon throws up "Jump" And Black Mage tosses up "Freeze"

The Battle Regimen system reads the two abilities and comes with the combined result of "Hypo-thermal Dive." When the Regimen is activated, a unique animation to that combination skill is played featuring all players involved. (In this case Dragoon and Black Mage).

This can also be developed to put a strong discouragement to class stacking.