Shell FCs are a bigger problem than we think...

Quoting from another thread

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Yeah nah, as Jojoya says, this on Materia. (OCE)

Goblet is only one day old here when that picture is taken. No grandfathering.

Same person has done it on all five servers in Materia, taken Goblet 2, five times over.

I can imagine how it would be worse if the zero bug didn't happen, but there is the next round eventually, so everyone expects to see then take the whole ward five times over.

Which is an impressive feat, really. World first at owning anentire DC's housing, easily beating grandfathered <<lucis>> on Spriggin, isn't it?

EDIT: Seems their empire is growing

16-20 homes now on day two of goblet on each of the five servers.

https://i.gyazo.com/381b9aa75e2e673b...f0c853010b.png
https://i.gyazo.com/84446dce1a79e874...ea0003e3aa.png
https://i.gyazo.com/597a9f04dfc00eec...4621e21484.png
https://i.gyazo.com/0a6cb63489aedb6f...8c01b71718.png
https://i.gyazo.com/ad90b3fa7d9ca897...2197c73850.png

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This is just pure sadness. If this is something that is intended and okay according to SQEX, then congratulations guys, Shell FCs wins again in the end.

How are they so prepared to have all those FC made, with a member with more than 30 days, 4 member, all ready for the 6.1 patch release.

I know of one such organization that does this, Each FC is capable of making 400k a day through Submarine and Airships, with 1 FC per world with the new patch limitations, on top of the FCs they've already acquired before the patch being grandfathered over. With all the account they pay sub for, it make sense that they're doing this for IRL gain, they can wholesale the gil they gain through these FCs making a profit whilst maintaining their Subs on all these accounts.

My speculation is that where there is an IRL gain, there is corruption, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that someone in SE is leaking info to said organisations prior to the public announcement so all these characters can prepare for the 6.1 patch ahead of time.

You could make it so that you need 10 members, people who want the house can just throw in a bunch of alts. All you do with suggesting revoking land from small FC is punish innocent small communities.

Every FC I have ever been in so far never let me do anything, no decorating, no gardening, no subs.. NOTHING. I had to go and make my own FC on my alt and buy an FC house for my friends and I to access that content. It cost me dozens of hours leveling the alt through msq, getting the GC rank etc And then cost me further millions buying a small, moving the plot 4 times till I got a spot I liked and now another 50mill for our large. And it all started with me just wanting to do subs and airships, if they let my private mansion do it I wouldn't have 2 houses right now. But hey I have 2 mansions to decorate.. only took 3 years to get the second mansion and I had my first mansion within 12 months of starting to play.. not the worst I spose.

That said, I have fallen in love with my alt since! I am nearing end of SB msq, did a bunch of glams blah blah. Enjoying a slow pace redoing the story and taking a more RP approach to the game too. My large fc plot shared by a half dozen ppl is serving more people than a lot of large member fc's tbh. Working on the airships and subs as a group is fun, wish I hadn't waited so long to make my alt.

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Originally Posted by Papi_Chai

How are they so prepared to have all those FC made, with a member with more than 30 days, 4 member, all ready for the 6.1 patch release.

I know of one such organization that does this, Each FC is capable of making 400k a day through Submarine and Airships, with 1 FC per world with the new patch limitations, on top of the FCs they've already acquired before the patch being grandfathered over. With all the account they pay sub for, it make sense that they're doing this for IRL gain, they can wholesale the gil they gain through these FCs making a profit whilst maintaining their Subs on all these accounts.

My speculation is that where there is an IRL gain, there is corruption, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that someone in SE is leaking info to said organisations prior to the public announcement so all these characters can prepare for the 6.1 patch ahead of time.

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There was no leak from some insider needed. The only information needed to prepare was publicly released in the November Live Letter.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Every FC I have ever been in so far never let me do anything, no decorating, no gardening, no subs.. NOTHING.

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Which is why many of us keep pointing out that being part of a FC that owns a house does not guarantee access to housing. The FC Master (and any officers who can adjust ranks and privileges) controls access and that access is usually reserved for officers only. Such restriction isn't without reason (trolling and theft are common when the officers don't use caution in assigning access) but it doesn't help the individual player who would like to engage with housing features.

some of these FCs is just 2-3 people as a couple of friends playing..

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

After lookign through the data at https://www.xivhousing.com/ (which has greatly improved since the last time I saw this), and using https://www.xivhousing.com/2021-cens...enters-regions to slice the data, of the roughly 120k FC houses worldwide, roughly 23k of those are shell FC houses. Shell FCs being FCs that have 1-3 members usually created for the sole purpose of getting a house, while a legitimate FC is 4+ members (which is the total number of signatures needed to create an FC btw).

That's roughly 20% of all FC houses worldwide are shell FC houses.

Like I have been saying for a long time, the shell FCs need to be dealt with because they are exacerbating the housing problem. Of all the servers, Chocobo is the poster child for this problem with 891 of the 2613 FC houses belonging to a shell FC.

While we definitely need more wards, the shell FC issue CANNOT continued to be ignored because all it's doing is making this entire housing thing harder than it really needs to be.

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It's been said a million times but I'll say it again, they wouldn't even have to worry about this if we had instanced housing and there were enough houses for everyone to have their own.

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

It's been said a million times but I'll say it again, they wouldn't even have to worry about this if we had instanced housing and there were enough houses for everyone to have their own.

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Nope, They just need to make the wards grows as the server population needs. It's 2022, there is no way their servers unable to handle more than 24.

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Originally Posted by Papi_Chai

How are they so prepared to have all those FC made, with a member with more than 30 days, 4 member, all ready for the 6.1 patch release.

I know of one such organization that does this, Each FC is capable of making 400k a day through Submarine and Airships, with 1 FC per world with the new patch limitations, on top of the FCs they've already acquired before the patch being grandfathered over. With all the account they pay sub for, it make sense that they're doing this for IRL gain, they can wholesale the gil they gain through these FCs making a profit whilst maintaining their Subs on all these accounts.

My speculation is that where there is an IRL gain, there is corruption, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that someone in SE is leaking info to said organisations prior to the public announcement so all these characters can prepare for the 6.1 patch ahead of time.

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"There must be a reason why people can't get homes, It is the shadow realtors!!! I knew it!!" Goof ball.

If you want to stop Shell FCs from being a thing, go to the root of the problem. Don't punish FCs that are only three friends enjoying the game together.

Workshop access should be available to ALL. Not just FCs.
Everyone should be allowed to access airships and submarines.
Everyone should be allowed to access projects.
Everyone should be allowed to have a communal chest for extra storage.
Everyone should be allowed to access gardening, with indoor growing plots for apartments.

Most people don't care about housing. They care about the Workshop/Airships/Submarines being gated by housing.

Don't blame the players for fixing the system where SE denies us stuff.
And before you say "join an FC", that is meaningless. Every FC I have ever seen gates their members so that only the officers and leader get to access Voyages and Projects. Not the general membership. So that isn't a solution either.

It's also been said that instanced housing is impossible without reconfiguring the entire game.

The Instance servers cover every dungeon, trial, raid, and other bit of instanced content.

You want to strain those servers even further by adding tens of thousands of instanced housing on top of all that?

It's not feasible.

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Originally Posted by Valfreyja

If you want to stop Shell FCs from being a thing, go to the root of the problem. Don't punish FCs that are only three friends enjoying the game together.

Workshop access should be available to ALL. Not just FCs.
Everyone should be allowed to access airships and submarines.
Everyone should be allowed to access projects.
Everyone should be allowed to have a communal chest for extra storage.
Everyone should be allowed to access gardening, with indoor growing plots for apartments.

Most people don't care about housing. They care about the Workshop/Airships/Submarines being gated by housing.

Don't blame the players for fixing the system where SE denies us stuff.
And before you say "join an FC", that is meaningless. Every FC I have ever seen gates their members so that only the officers and leader get to access Voyages and Projects. Not the general membership. So that isn't a solution either.

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Then what would be the purpose of an FC if private owners had all that you mentioned? They should just get rid of the FC's all together? They need to up the active members required base on plot size. I mean actual active members should be maintained too by recruiting active players on a semi regular bases. FC's are a community base entity with projects that an FC can work on as a whole, take that and give it to everyone, FC's would seem pointless. They need to up the requirements to form an FC and maintain one. Not give every Joe Smoe the exact perks an FC has when joining one.

Anyone in my FC the members are welcomed to use the workshop, gardens and community chest with dedicated tabs for members needs. We also run airships and submarines daily and what they bring back belongs to the FC not any one individual . It's either given away in a random drawing or sold to earn gil for the FC and it's activities. If you're in an FC that doesn't allow these perks, then you should join one that does. These amenities should remain exclusive to an FC and they should tighten the restrictions and responsibility of being a leader of an FC or what's the point?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There was no leak from some insider needed. The only information needed to prepare was publicly released in the November Live Letter.


Which is why many of us keep pointing out that being part of a FC that owns a house does not guarantee access to housing. The FC Master (and any officers who can adjust ranks and privileges) controls access and that access is usually reserved for officers only. Such restriction isn't without reason (trolling and theft are common when the officers don't use caution in assigning access) but it doesn't help the individual player who would like to engage with housing features.

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Thank you for pointing out FC masters dont restrict house control for no reason.

What's the point of joining an FC if the leader and staff don't let you do that stuff in the first place?

You are spending your time gaming to earn them Company Credits, so they get to play with that stuff, while you are left on the sidelines.

And no, they shouldn't be exclusive to an FC. An FC should be a group of players and nothing else. They shouldn't get special perks or privileges like that.

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Originally Posted by Valfreyja

What's the point of joining an FC if the leader and staff don't let you do that stuff in the first place?

You are spending your time gaming to earn them Company Credits, so they get to play with that stuff, while you are left on the sidelines.

And no, they shouldn't be exclusive to an FC. An FC should be a group of players and nothing else. They shouldn't get special perks or privileges like that.

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https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/re...62f/page/ez06B

https://i.imgur.com/2wmyL97.png

https://i.imgur.com/2wmyL97.png

Its a western thing, which is pretty funny because its also the same people who bitch about players running solo FCs.

The % of FC houses with 30 people or more on the JP DC is 4.5%.

Basically, NA/EU are crybabies and are too lazy to take matters into their own hands.

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Originally Posted by Valfreyja

What's the point of joining an FC if the leader and staff don't let you do that stuff in the first place?

You are spending your time gaming to earn them Company Credits, so they get to play with that stuff, while you are left on the sidelines.

And no, they shouldn't be exclusive to an FC. An FC should be a group of players and nothing else. They shouldn't get special perks or privileges like that.

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FCs are social groups with their own personality and content interests. People tend to find comfort in being part of like-minded groups that do things together.

If the only reason you're joining the FC is because you want free access to the garden and workshop, naturally they're going to be suspicious. You're not joining to be part of the group, you're joining for gil.

But FCs still need a way to fund their social activities and events. Company Credits are pretty much useless for the purpose - the variety of items that can be purchased with credits and sold for gil (or used to purchase items that can be sold for gil) are too few. Lacking a workshop and garden, they have to rely on member donations. With access to a workshop and garden, they have a way to earn gil to fund those things without bugging their members.

Workshops also used to be social activities. You had to be in a light party with 3 other DOH to operate the Fabrication Station. I can remember plenty of times I would help out friends in their workshops, sitting and chatting as they did whatever it was. Because players complained that it made no sense to require 3 other players when it was usually a single omnicrafter doing all the work, SE removed the requirement.

It's a MMO. It's about playing with others. Social groups do deserve to get some priority as a result. If you're only after a solo player experience, there are so many other games that do that better it's surprising that you're here.

MMO are social things, yes. Doesn't mean you have to always be social.

And there is still no reason social groups should get access to special exclusive content, just because a bunch of people decided to bunch together.

Not saying I don't enjoy the social aspect or grouping. What I object to is the exclusivity of the Workshop. And if just the leader and staff are running the Workshop, even if the FC benefits from the gil made, it's still just the leader and staff leeching off their membership.

FCs have ways to fun themselves without needing the workshop. There are a bunch of them. Should be easy for them to farm PotD, HoH, Bozja, Eureka, Primals for weapon materials. Lots of things they can get and sell. Not to mention Treasure Hunt loots with map farms.

All of that, yet they still need the Workshop to be exclusive? Since the Garden is not exclusive to an FC, it is exclusive to houses in general.

But at least SE is starting to take steps for some of this, so maybe they'll open the workshop to more people.

With all due respect, who are you to dictate how people run their own FCs? If you join one, don't get access to the workshop and subs/airships immediately and that's an issue for you, that's a *you* problem - and if so, you should probably form your own FC where you can share everything communally. For most of us though, time, effort and gil have been put into unlocking and then using these features, we shouldn't just open these things up to everyone who joins simply because you asked.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

FCs are social groups with their own personality and content interests. People tend to find comfort in being part of like-minded groups that do things together.

If the only reason you're joining the FC is because you want free access to the garden and workshop, naturally they're going to be suspicious. You're not joining to be part of the group, you're joining for gil.

But FCs still need a way to fund their social activities and events. Company Credits are pretty much useless for the purpose - the variety of items that can be purchased with credits and sold for gil (or used to purchase items that can be sold for gil) are too few. Lacking a workshop and garden, they have to rely on member donations. With access to a workshop and garden, they have a way to earn gil to fund those things without bugging their members.

Workshops also used to be social activities. You had to be in a light party with 3 other DOH to operate the Fabrication Station. I can remember plenty of times I would help out friends in their workshops, sitting and chatting as they did whatever it was. Because players complained that it made no sense to require 3 other players when it was usually a single omnicrafter doing all the work, SE removed the requirement.

It's a MMO. It's about playing with others. Social groups do deserve to get some priority as a result. If you're only after a solo player experience, there are so many other games that do that better it's surprising that you're here.

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FCs as it is are afterthought feature in this game.
For raiding there are statics. For most of the activities such as hunts there are cross server discords/link shells. For RP there are venues and discords to find them out. General socializing? Once again there are discords and in game people do not talk much anyway.
What is left for FCs then? Treasure hunts?

And now Square Enix are adding trusts to duties so you can play even more of the game without other people if you so desire. Because in truth this genre was never about massive multiplayer, but live service game model. Shared areas are just for showing off glamours, glowy weapons and titles to entice other players in participating in these activities (or go to cash shop).
Housing in this regard is a failure, as players see stuff they cannot get themselves, so devs are basically leaving untapped game revenue (having a house with demolition system forces people to maintain subs).

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

FCs as it is are afterthought feature in this game.
For raiding there are statics. For most of the activities such as hunts there are cross server discords/link shells. For RP there are venues and discords to find them out. General socializing? Once again there are discords and in game people do not talk much anyway.
What is left for FCs then? Treasure hunts?

And now Square Enix are adding trusts to duties so you can play even more of the game without other people if you so desire. Because in truth this genre was never about massive multiplayer, but live service game model. Shared areas are just for showing off glamours, glowy weapons and titles to entice other players in participating in these activities (or go to cash shop).
Housing in this regard is a failure, as players see stuff they cannot get themselves, so devs are basically leaving untapped game revenue (having a house with demolition system forces people to maintain subs).

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I disagree, this game has very much been an FC game, even with Linkshells. It's the players who've used social media / third party social programs that have come about since the game's inception to take the social out of the game.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

I disagree, this game has very much been an FC game, even with Linkshells. It's the players who've used social media / third party social programs that have come about since the game's inception to take the social out of the game.

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For pure raiding purposes, an FC would have been at most a list of players as a group, and feature no extra benefits on that, other than making parties easier to start.

However, in FCs there are actions that benefit you, which as solo player you cannot get. A shell FC can cover these features.

Shell FC are on that not a problem, its just that there are always players who abuse these things. And most important would be that SE should simply just ban those abusers. Its very clear when this was done, and in this case which accounts were involved (i bet all of them were trial accounts, and only the winners ended up becoming a sub). At such scale you nearly always will notice a pattern (same FC name, same email domain that isnt a large hoster, same bank account, all trial). It would be efficient if SE can react on that.

Personaly i would even say that trial members are still excluded from housing, unless they already made a payment (in which cancelling the payment before the trial ended must have something as an additional requirement that your account must not have been used in housing - where technicaly they only will not accept refunds on those shell fc abusers, while most accounts are going to be fine). The payment is there to make spamming trial accounts harder, and also to fund SE into preventing abuse (because you will know they will abuse it anyway). Payment info will also be harder to get a lot of identities in (as governments will prevent this), so you can restrict a lot on that already. Also, abusers will usualy also use stolen creditcards etc (using your own information makes you vulnerable in being targeted by the company). Which is information that can also be used to remove the house again (as this information is often shared in order to counter abuse).

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Shell FC are on that not a problem, its just that there are always players who abuse these things. And most important would be that SE should simply just ban those abusers. Its very clear when this was done, and in this case which accounts were involved


(i bet all of them were trial accounts, and only the winners ended up becoming a sub). At such scale you nearly always will notice a pattern (same FC name, same email domain that isnt a large hoster, same bank account, all trial). It would be efficient if SE can react on that.

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But they don't, that's the problem. For some reason you can report obvious ToS violations till the cows come home, but SE will not read and/or act on them. Their solution to these people abusing the system is to change the system to try to stop them. But humans (being ingenious when it comes to finding ways to exploit things for money) will always find a way around any new obstacles you toss into their path.

I'm not saying don't take these measures to combat housing cheats, but like... translate and read the reports people send in, investigate them, and actually remove the problem players, too.

Also trial accounts can't participate in the housing lotto as far as I know.

Trials have a 300k gil cap I believe so yeah they wouldn't be able to participate.

The thing is, it's very easy to spot a 'Shell FC' and take appropriate action, once you know exactly what you're looking for. Someone needs to show the devs what Shell FC's look like, and how to completely undermine them.

Ward 2 in Goblet on Materia is an absolute travesty and massive sized middle finger to the entire playerbase. And, as usual, SE does not and will not care at all. I wish some of their staff actually played this game..

i opend a Shell FC myself for me and my wife, simple because at it is now, an FC can get a house easier
so we can have access to a garden and the workshop, regardless if it's a large house or a small one
i'm a crafter an collecter, and i like it to gather all mats myself so i can craft all mounts and minions for me and my wife
we dont like it to buy everything on the marketboard, there is more of a experiences of success if you get everything yourself, even if it takes longer

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

The thing is, it's very easy to spot a 'Shell FC' and take appropriate action, once you know exactly what you're looking for. Someone needs to show the devs what Shell FC's look like, and how to completely undermine them.

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Shell FCs (Small FC) were never the problem, only people and RMT organizations that abuse the FC System to buy whole wards

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Originally Posted by HuaTuo

Ward 2 in Goblet on Materia is an absolute travesty and massive sized middle finger to the entire playerbase. And, as usual, SE does not and will not care at all. I wish some of their staff actually played this game..

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SE Forum: Ok so looks like people are still taking advantage and getting multiple houses.

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Originally Posted by Bunnycake

Trials have a 300k gil cap I believe so yeah they wouldn't be able to participate.

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Yup, 300k Gil Limit, no ability to use /tell or create Linkshells, joining FC or creating a party. No Marketboard or Retainers either.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Why should a failed FC with less members than what was needed to create it be able to hold land?

All FCs with less than 3 members should lose their houses BECAUSE of the shell FC problem.
Edit:
10% is a guesstimate, too lazy to actually math this out >.>

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I think you're missing the point everyone is trying to make. The small FCs are not 'failed' FCs, Free Companies are in no-way hundreds of people big, free companies can be a small group of friends that adventure together, in Japan the market for Free Companies is not a huge group of people all running content at the same time, it's a small group of friends usually between 4-8 people large that get together to play the game, that's the reason most of the content only requires at max, 8 people to run, unlike other RPGs that want upwards of 24+ people at the same time.

The difference between FFXIV and an American game like, (gasp) WoW is that the developers for Blizzard cater more towards larger groups which in Japan is considered unnecessary. The restriction on the housing being that it had to be a free company of 4 people or more to establish a house is because the party system only requires 4 people to get anything done in normal content, 8 for higher content.

You keep calling any FC with less than 4 people a "Shell FC" and it may simply be a small FC that is exchanging out members. The fact that you don't take into consideration, the small groups that have people they are going or cycling through the FC shows that no only did you not actually correctly math the statistics FFXIVhousing.com provides, but you failed to work with the invisible variables, something that other players tried to point out and you blatantly ignored. Stop calling them 'shell FCs', they are *small* FCs and you don't know the background of said FCs. You don't know if they're recruiting, or if they're changing out members, or if they just lost a member for one reason or another, and denying them fair access to housing is the same as limiting the number of personal housing to be for a single person. As you can share a personal house with up to 4 people, are you suggesting that small FCs use personal houses and just add their small number of members to that single plot? What about when the numbers grow beyond that? What then?

Being considerate towards others is why Yoshi-P and the devs built the housing system this way, I agree that the split for FC and Personal housing should have been more even, but even I know that small FCs that are just building, or prefer to keep their number small because it's a group of friends that play together, are NOT shells. They just don't meet YOUR criteria of being a Free Company.

(P.S. 3 active members isn't including the FC lead. The FC lead is member number 4)

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Originally Posted by Lachesia

I think you're missing the point everyone is trying to make. The small FCs are not 'failed' FCs, Free Companies are in no-way hundreds of people big, free companies can be a small group of friends that adventure together, in Japan the market for Free Companies is not a huge group of people all running content at the same time, it's a small group of friends usually between 4-8 people large that get together to play the game, that's the reason most of the content only requires at max, 8 people to run, unlike other RPGs that want upwards of 24+ people at the same time.

The difference between FFXIV and an American game like, (gasp) WoW is that the developers for Blizzard cater more towards larger groups which in Japan is considered unnecessary. The restriction on the housing being that it had to be a free company of 4 people or more to establish a house is because the party system only requires 4 people to get anything done in normal content, 8 for higher content.

You keep calling any FC with less than 4 people a "Shell FC" and it may simply be a small FC that is exchanging out members. The fact that you don't take into consideration, the small groups that have people they are going or cycling through the FC shows that no only did you not actually correctly math the statistics FFXIVhousing.com provides, but you failed to work with the invisible variables, something that other players tried to point out and you blatantly ignored. Stop calling them 'shell FCs', they are *small* FCs and you don't know the background of said FCs. You don't know if they're recruiting, or if they're changing out members, or if they just lost a member for one reason or another, and denying them fair access to housing is the same as limiting the number of personal housing to be for a single person. As you can share a personal house with up to 4 people, are you suggesting that small FCs use personal houses and just add their small number of members to that single plot? What about when the numbers grow beyond that? What then?

Being considerate towards others is why Yoshi-P and the devs built the housing system this way, I agree that the split for FC and Personal housing should have been more even, but even I know that small FCs that are just building, or prefer to keep their number small because it's a group of friends that play together, are NOT shells. They just don't meet YOUR criteria of being a Free Company.

(P.S. 3 active members isn't including the FC lead. The FC lead is member number 4)

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It's true that not every FC with 4 or fewer total members (including FC Master) is a failed FC.

It's also true that not every FC with 4 or fewer members is a legitimate FC. Many are shells used to exploit the housing system to sate personal greed.

A FC that drops to a single member (the FC master) immediately after acquiring a house and stays that way is not "exchanging members". Please don't pretend it is. That's a player being inconsiderate of others, especially when that's not the only FC with a house they have on their account.

I doubt "being considerate" was ever a phrase listed as being part of the housing concepts when they were developed. If being considerate was a core philosophy for housing, SE would be doing something about the exploiters. You probably should stop pushing it as such.

I don't agree with the person you quoted that small FCs should have their houses taken away but SE needs to take a closer look at how the housing system is being exploited by some individuals through use of small FCs and how that is blocking access to the content for others.

I'm looking at some data now, and I think my server has a serious issue with Shell FC's.

I have a very small Rank 30 FC in a small house. It started with 4 and there are only 2 of us active atm because one stopped playing for a while and left the FC to me. I never intended to have a large FC, it is not my thing and am real picky about whom I fraternize within game. We do enjoy the FC perks and constantly run my subs for goodies. I keep it nicely decorated and enjoy sharing it with a select few like-minded people that I can trust and not be constantly pestered as I was with a larger crowd. I am here to play the game for me not cater constantly to the whims and demands of others. I intend to keep the small fc and small house. I do not need another FC. I have a medium house and an apt. So, this is how I roll, don't like it???, too bad for you cuz I am quite pleased ;)

There's a substantial difference between a smaller, less busy FC, and a blatantly obvious Shell FC. 3 major tells being a low FC Rank, characters at starting level or just above Level 50, and fewer than 5 FC members (usually 1, 2, or 3 members).

Of which shell FC's lack the major criteria needed to get FC housing. Including Rank. Time. And numbers. "Shell" FC's don't benefit from much since they often don't meet the requirements to get the housing.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's true that not every FC with 4 or fewer total members (including FC Master) is a failed FC.

It's also true that not every FC with 4 or fewer members is a legitimate FC. Many are shells used to exploit the housing system to sate personal greed.

A FC that drops to a single member (the FC master) immediately after acquiring a house and stays that way is not "exchanging members". Please don't pretend it is. That's a player being inconsiderate of others, especially when that's not the only FC with a house they have on their account.

I doubt "being considerate" was ever a phrase listed as being part of the housing concepts when they were developed. If being considerate was a core philosophy for housing, SE would be doing something about the exploiters. You probably should stop pushing it as such.

I don't agree with the person you quoted that small FCs should have their houses taken away but SE needs to take a closer look at how the housing system is being exploited by some individuals through use of small FCs and how that is blocking access to the content for others.

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I agree that they need a better system in place, the lottery is a good idea...on paper, but in practice, it falls short of what it was supposed to be. Very short. The fact remains that much of the data that SE is using for their decision making is based off the Japanese servers, which are larger and older than the EU, NA, and now OCE data centers. Many of the groups on the Japanese servers are not huge in terms of numbers, and are fairly dedicated and small groups that only use the FC housing as another benefit/means of entertainment with the perks you get from the FCs. And while shells are a problem, if you notice I mentioned that it should be taken into consideration that not EVERY small FC is a shell or failed FC. Calling a free company that has at max 4 members a failed FC is fairly dismissive of those who are content to just work with a small group of trusted friends or companions in game. No one was talking about people who just drop to a single member in an FC this is explicitly about those small groups being called 'shells' when they aren't. We don't have all the data on which FC's are 'shells' and which are just small groups, which is why generalizing smaller FCs as shelled or failed is not only rude but legitimately takes away from people who are actually working on building themselves up by lumping them in with those that are exploiting the system.

You misunderstand when I said being considerate towards others is the reason the housing system was built the way it is. No one can see the future, and therefore, they cannot predict what measures will be used against the system they were hoping would give everyone a fair chance at housing. I disagree that they put so much emphasis on FC housing and they should have left it mixed. Furthermore they need to implement that an FC can only attempt at *one* plaque per lottery.

Regardless of how many members try to buy plots. Yes it causes the ratio to become more difficult for people to get into a housing plot of their choice, but that's the whole point of the lottery isn't it? Giving everyone a fair chance at at least one location? They should have limited it to 1 FC plot being purchased and multiple members could bid into that plot for a better chance, rather than let people attempt for multiple plots at the same time.

Shell FC's (mostly used for house trading back in the day) are the scourge of the Spriggan server. Many wards have Large homes owned by dead FC's with a single low-level member left. If there's going to be talk of the issue of shell FC's, then I would like to discuss the possibility of evicting such tenants on the grounds of universal best interest, and letting those homes reenter the market and be won by established players.

Housing should just have paid wards (which in turn also enables people to buy any size). This money can be used to get more servers with it (sure, maintenance wise this might still add some costs at some point, but usualy at that point servers should be more efficient). This therefor should then be sustainable.

Free wards then still have the advantage that a player never paid for it. But this is more legacy (maybe you can even make houses in old wards cost money at that point), and you could always give the paid houses extra advantages (better farming).

This then also disrupts the RMT market massively. Because why would you buy a house from them if SE is already providing the option reliably?

Only those shell FCs that just lock out a large house then can have the advantage of having ward 1, and therefor being a bit more visible.

The only problem is that the hardware can be an issue to obtain. Which was the issue we had a while ago.

Islands would already provide the free method of housing anyway, so its not like they will be missing out on everything.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Housing should just have paid wards (which in turn also enables people to buy any size).

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I would happily pay $20 US for a medium plot that would be mine until the day the servers are taken down; no matter how long of a break I take. Even if I stop playing the day after buying it and only come back the day the servers go down, it's still there in my name. That would be completely worth it for me. Hell, I might even buy one for my alt too!

Having a single "free" plot (the kind we have now) per account with as many premium plots as one's willing to pay for seems a reasonable option to me.

I'd have no objection to paying an increased sub fee if it meant I could own a Medium House for as long as I paid the fee. Not just as a lump sum, but as a maintenance fee to keep the servers running.

I know people generally dislike 'cash shops', but the 'free' option isn't working at this point, and I think SE need to seriously consider the possibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

I'd have no objection to paying an increased sub fee if it meant I could own a Medium House for as long as I paid the fee. Not just as a lump sum, but as a maintenance fee to keep the servers running.

I know people generally dislike 'cash shops', but the 'free' option isn't working at this point, and I think SE need to seriously consider the possibility.

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Playable content has always included housing in the description. Many have been unable to utilize housing as part of the monthly sub we pay for. If they start charging for a house, perhaps next they can charge so much per dungeon or x-amount for special crafting receipes...no??? um hmmm. didn't think so :) In their inept short-sightedness, SE did not think out of the box when planning for housing. Most likely, they did not think it would be so popular but guess what? Now, it is up to them to back up what is promised in the playable content description.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

I'd have no objection to paying an increased sub fee if it meant I could own a Medium House for as long as I paid the fee. Not just as a lump sum, but as a maintenance fee to keep the servers running.

I know people generally dislike 'cash shops', but the 'free' option isn't working at this point, and I think SE need to seriously consider the possibility.

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I would be against this. I came in this game with the advertisement promising a shot at housing with my fee. To essentially do that and then go "No, sorry. Actually you gotta pay more!" screams utterly gross. My opinions on the cash shop are poor as is, I'd hate to add false advertising to bandaid the devs incompetence.

Then again, they are keen on bandaiding everything.