Should Dark Arts Come Back in 6.0? If so, What Should the Skill Do?

I think you AAAAALLL trying to be to technical about this.
Rather go back to understanding what a DARK KNIGHT is and what a WARRIOR is.

Dungeon & dragon the father of all RPG classes is a good guidance method.
The same principle applies to a witch and a wizard or sorcerer they all CASTERS and similar in ways.

WARRIOR and DARK KNIGHT are both melee brawlers and they similar the same.
I'm happy with how the class is with a few tweaks it should make it a bit more unique, but i'll leave that to SQ Enix they've been doing this for years I trust their decisions.

I'm all for new mechanics and gameplay as long as they don't revert drk into the mess it was in SB.

I bumped this thread again because of all the DRK discussion/feedback going on in these forums. Yes, I know the Dark Knight Megathread exists, but the purpose of this thread is to talk about Dark Arts and Dark Arts only. If anyone has any suggestions, post away.

Below is my new suggestion for Dark Arts. This can be found on the first page.

Special thanks to Rosenstrauch, Shao and Anahlise for the ideas.

Dark Arts will be earned at Level 42.
Regaining Dark Arts charges depend on the Darkside timer. If 30secs have past while in Darkside, Dark Arts will regain 1 charge (special thanks to Rosenstrauch for this suggestion).
DRK won't be able to use Dark Arts until 30secs have past on the Darkside Timer.
However, this changes at later levels. Similar to Black Mage and it's Polyglot mechanic in Endwalker, DRK will receive a trait at later levels allowing them to use Dark Arts at the start of fights.


Dark Arts will, of course, enhance some skills. Unlike StB, these skill changes are limited so the player won't be overwhelmed.

Upon the activation of Dark Arts, the following skills will change:
Soul Eater becomes the dot skill Scourge
Dark Mind receives a 20% mitigation bonus for Physical Attacks
Carve and Split does 3 hits now. Each hit does the same number of potency.
Shadow Wall mitigation bonus is now 40% with a duration of 20 seconds
(New) Power Slash, which is a returning combo finisher, becomes the old 3.0 Delirium skill, just renamed.

TBN needs to be brought up since it's losing Dark Arts as a trait.

Suggested Change:
- If TBN breaks, DRK will gain the trait Dark Rune
- Dark Rune reduces damage taken by 15% for a duration of 12secs
- Restores the DRK's HP with a Cure Potency of 500.

I've still yet to put more thought on the traits.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Dark Arts will be earned at Level 42.
The skill will have two charges. Three at max level
DRK can use it's Dark Arts skill at beginning of every dungeon/raid.
Regaining Dark Arts charges depend on the Darkside timer. If 30secs have past while in Darkside, Dark Arts will regain 1 charge.

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How is DRK supposed to use DA at the beginning of dungeons/raids when its charges need active Darkside to charge? Will they also charge outside of battles? Could you explain that?

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Dark Mind receives a 20% mitigation bonus for Physical Attacks
Carve and Split does 3 hits now. Each hit does the same number of potency.
Shadow Wall mitigation bonus is now 40% with a duration of 20 seconds

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This would bring back 2 problems we had with DA in HW and StB.
1. If DA is usefull for both dmg and sustain abilities it will ultimately only be used for dmg.
2. Giving DA effects to ogcd can cause problems with doubleweaving, especially under the haste window BW had. Admitted we don't have that anymore, but some people (me included) would like to have haste windows back on DRK.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

(New) Power Slash, which is a returning combo finisher, becomes the old 3.0 Delirium skill, just renamed.

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3.0 Diliriums usage was the Blunt debuff that isn't in the game anymore. What would be Power Slashs new purpose?

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

TBN needs to be brought up since it's losing Dark Arts as a trait.

Suggested Change:
- If TBN breaks, DRK will gain the trait Dark Rune
- Dark Rune reduces damage taken by 15% for a duration of 12secs
- Restores the DRK's HP with a Cure Potency of 500.

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+1 on that. TBN should not consume MP and be damage neutral. Binding dmg and sustain together is an aweful design and will always be.

I would like to have DA back. But not as it was in StB because it was just "Press DA->do more dmg". It should rather be something like "Press DA at the right moments->alter Gameplay/manage ressources->do more dmg."

I don't care how they will implement Dark Arts back...
Just give it back ! Give us back DA please and trash out some of the useless button bloat who serve nothing as a DK mechanics.
DK have literally 0 mecha... Like really, job should have at least some sort of mechanics, i know it's all for casual but to find a balance would be better in my opinion.

DK is a dummy, an empty shell.
I don't know who is in charge of combat gameplay on DK MNK but he messed up way too much, the whole "simplify job" have to stop also...

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

This would bring back 2 problems we had with DA in HW and StB.
1. If DA is usefull for both dmg and sustain abilities it will ultimately only be used for dmg.

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This depends entirely on tuning. If, in the given context, the rDPS gain (via healer GCDs saved) of the defensive usage is greater, then the defensive actually has more offensive value. HW simply didn't give quite enough affected damage to quite outweigh the 140 additional potency.

That said, I also wouldn't mind DA's never directly affecting offensive potency.

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2. Giving DA effects to ogcd can cause problems with doubleweaving, especially under the haste window BW had. Admitted we don't have that anymore, but some people (me included) would like to have haste windows back on DRK.

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Agreed. And I, too, would like it back.

I think DA should unpack different actions. Reason I like this concept so much is because it's a way to get rid of staleness and makes you actually feel powerful.

Overall though.. I think Reaper has defeated us. It's going to be sooo hard to give DRK its own identity in terms of gameplay when its biggest enemy is a DPS.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Dark Arts will be earned at Level 42.
The skill will have two charges. Three at max level
DRK can use it's Dark Arts skill at beginning of every dungeon/raid.
Regaining Dark Arts charges depend on the Darkside timer. If 30secs have past while in Darkside, Dark Arts will regain 1 charge (special thanks to Rosenstrauch for this suggestion).

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This doesn't fix anything. This is just a long winded way of saying 30 second cooldown. Darkside is still a brainless layer to look like mechanical skill is required, but you still are constantly overcapped on it. It would be far better to make it consume darkside time.

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

How is DRK supposed to use DA at the beginning of dungeons/raids when its charges need active Darkside to charge? Will they also charge outside of battles? Could you explain that?

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The more I thought about this, the more I thought about Black Mage. During Enochian, that Job gains 1 Polyglot every 30secs. It's the same with Dark Arts in this situation, but in Endwalker, Black Mage will receive a trait that will allow them to have 1 Polyglot at the start of the fight. I'm thinking DRK and Dark Arts can have the same thing at higher levels. Not sure what level DRK should be though.

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

3.0 Diliriums usage was the Blunt debuff that isn't in the game anymore. What would be Power Slashs new purpose?

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I actually did not know that because I did not play 3.0 DRK. I'm just a casual player that started playing the job at 4.55 and beyond. But Dark Arts looked cool, so I made this thread in hopes of catching SE's attention.

As for what the Dark Arts Enhanced Power Slash does, maybe do a magic vulnerability down debuff. DRK is technically a "Magic" based job, so having a 2 or 3% magic vulnerability down debuff on the enemy would fit the DRK aesthetic in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

This would bring back 2 problems we had with DA in HW and StB.
1. If DA is usefull for both dmg and sustain abilities it will ultimately only be used for dmg.
2. Giving DA effects to ogcd can cause problems with doubleweaving, especially under the haste window BW had. Admitted we don't have that anymore, but some people (me included) would like to have haste windows back on DRK.

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I need to think more about this. I wouldn't mind Dark Arts effecting only defensive skills, but in my eyes, that would be kinda boring? Maybe only effect 1 or 2 offensive skills and that's it. As for Blood Weapon, again I'm not sure. If BW does not receive a haste buff in future patches, then having Dark Arts as an oGCD is fine. But that would change if BW does receive it's haste buff back. So many things to consider.

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Originally Posted by Ryaduera

This doesn't fix anything. This is just a long winded way of saying 30 second cooldown. Darkside is still a brainless layer to look like mechanical skill is required, but you still are constantly overcapped on it. It would be far better to make it consume darkside time.

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Perhaps you are right. Again, I never played 3.0 DRK. I just kept listening to the veteran 3.0 and 4.0 DRK players and formed my opinion here. Since a lot of DRK players did not like the Dark Arts spam in 4.0, I suggested that it'd only be an oGCD with charges to prevent spam.

However, having Dark Arts take away Darkside timer is a good idea. A great idea. Although, I do think this idea would fit better if BW got it's haste buff back.

My thoughts on Dark Arts are, for the most part, still the same. The fundamental purpose of Dark Arts needs to change... It use to be all about a damage gain, and with its return, it needs to not be about damage gain, and serve a new purpose; said new purpose of which I have been to type multiple times in this thread, is that Dark Arts just changes the effects of actions, alters the purpose of actions, or adds a new additional effect to actions, as its old direct damage gain purpose, will always be a problem.
With that said, now I will get into these last few new comments and share my own thoughts about this update to ideas for the return of Dark Arts...

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Dark Arts will be earned at Level 42.

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Just a thought, but since the new idea is for Dark Arts to be DarkSide reliant, I could see Dark Arts unlock at the same level as DarkSide, but on the other scale, it also makes to not, as Dark Arts could.. sort of?, be seen as a upgrade to DarkSide, so Lv42 seems fine, or.. since Dark Arts is a important skill that changes Dark Knight quite a lot, it could even unlock at Lv50, along with Living Dead, as one of Dark Knights' fancy.. was "capstone" the word?, actions.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Regaining Dark Arts charges depend on the Darkside timer. If 30secs have past while in Darkside, Dark Arts will regain 1 charge (special thanks to Rosenstrauch for this suggestion).

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I think that this idea is fine... I like it and I am all for it. It does not change the function of Dark Arts much, any way.. it just adds a CD to it, as Dark Arts would technically still "cost MP to use", in the sense of the MP spent to extend DarkSide duration, which then counts down as Dark Art's CD... But, since the MP is not spent on Dark Arts in a direct manner, this avoids the issue that Dark Arts must not cost MP, because for Dark Knights...MP = offensive potency, but Dark Arts needs to not be a direct offensive action.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

The skill will have two charges, Three at max level. / DRK can use it's Dark Arts skill at beginning of every dungeon/raid. / Regaining Dark Arts charges depend on the Darkside timer. / If 30secs have past while in Darkside, Dark Arts will regain 1 charge. / DRK won't be able to use Dark Arts until 30secs have past on the Darkside Timer.
However, this changes at later levels. Similar to Black Mage and it's Polyglot mechanic in Endwalker, DRK will receive a trait at later levels allowing them to use Dark Arts at the start of fights.

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Originally Posted by Kreyd

How is DRK supposed to use DA at the beginning of dungeons/raids when its charges need active Darkside to charge? Will they also charge outside of battles? Could you explain that?

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big BUT... I agree with Kreyd here. I like the idea that Dark Arts ties into DarkSide, but this is not such a good way to implement it... Here is my alternative idea: When the Dark Knight enters a instance activity, they will start with Dark Arts charges already ready, and this will apply from the start, down at Dark Art's unlock level, as to lock this behind a higher level(the Enochian comparison idea), I think is a bad idea. Now for a problem with this, which was obvious to me...

As I said before, Dark Arts must not be a direct offensive gain, and instead, its new purpose should be just to change the effects of actions, alters the purpose of actions, or adds a new additional effect to actions... This means that for Dark Knights, Dark Arts will not be a immediate use, but DarkSide will be a immediate use, so if the Dark Knight starts the activity with all charges ready, there is a potential waste here, as DarkSide would tick away while Dark Arts has all charges ready, so no charge CD for DarkSide to tick away at.

Here is my solution: Dark Arts action(unlocks at Lv42), Dark Arts Practitioner(a Lv45 trait), of which this trait grants a second charge for Dark Arts, and also makes it so that the Dark Knight will always have one charge already ready, when the Dark Knight enters a instance activity, while the second charge will remain not ready. This gives Dark Knight a lenience, to use Dark Arts once before the second charge readies, to avoid potential waste from that DarkSide is immediate, where-as Dark Arts is not.

now, I disagree with you again, CurrentLemon, where you say "three charges at max level", as Lv45 to Lv90 is a lot... I think, rather, that Dark Arts should improve slow but steady, across levels and the expansions. Here is my suggestion: Dark Arts Practitioner II(Lv60? trait), this trait will unlock the third charge for Dark Arts. Dark Arts mastery(Lv70? trait), this trait will make it so that the Dark Knight enters a instance activity will two charges already ready, instead of just one, while the third remains not ready.
the point of this is that as the Dark Knight gains levels and more actions, Dark Arts will effect more actions, so the demand of Dark Arts uses will go up.

As a side-note, all trait levels are non-final and subject to change, since I only wrote it that way to get my point across, as the trait upgrades to Dark Arts may end up with a need to be at earlier levels, and unlock at a level around, or even the same level as, the level at which the Dark Knight unlocks another action that uses Dark Arts.

Alright, before I continue.. I will reiterate how Dark Arts itself ought to function... It can be one of two options. When the Dark Knight uses the Dark Arts action, either:
option one / grants a passive self-buff, Dark Arts, for 15 seconds. Every action that the Dark Knight uses in the next 15 seconds, while Dark Arts is active, will activate their Dark Arts bonus, Dark Artes additional effect, or temporarily change into the alternate form that Dark Arts alters the action into.
option two / grants some number of "stacks" of a Dark Arts passive self-buff, with a 30 second duration, and every action that the Dark Knight uses in the next 30 seconds, while these "stacks" are active, will spend one of those "stacks", to activate the action's Dark Arts bonus, Dark Artes additional effect, or execute the action's temporary altered new form.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Dark Arts will, of course, enhance some skills. Unlike StB, these skill changes are limited so the player won't be overwhelmed.

Upon the activation of Dark Arts, the following skills will change:
Soul Eater becomes the dot skill Scourge
Dark Mind receives a 20% mitigation bonus for Physical Attacks
Carve and Split does 3 hits now. Each hit does the same number of potency.
Shadow Wall mitigation bonus is now 40% with a duration of 20 seconds
(New) Power Slash, which is a returning combo finisher, becomes the old 3.0 Delirium skill, just renamed.

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First.. I will say that I think that Dark Arts should effect many Dark Knight actions, not just a few of them, but absolute should not effect certain Dark Knight actions, such as Hard Slash, Syphon Strike, and Unleash, for obvious examples. And now to unpack my thoughts on each of these ideas...

Dark Arts alters SoulEater into Scourge is not a bad Idea, but then the Scourge DoT will need a long duration, since it is locked behind Dark Arts, but would need to have consistent DoT upkeep, so that means that the Scourge DoT needs a Duration of at least 30 seconds.

Dark Arts - Dark Mind is also fine. Dark Arts could either add physical damage mitigation, or even change the magic damage mitigation into physical damage mitigation. Just as a side-note, this Dark Arts effect should also apply to Dark Missionary.

As for Carve and Spit, I love the idea from a personal perspective, as I would love for Carve and Spit to be a real threefold attack, but.. this idea also makes me a little nervous, because that means Carve and Spit will always be inferior to Dark Arts - Carve and Spit, which would lead to a "Dark Arts requirement"... Here is my own idea: Carve and Spit is always a three-hit action. Split its 450 potency and MP restoration across the three hits. While Dark Arts adds the additional effect of that each hit of Carve and Spit will also restore HP, that so Dark Arts - Carve and Spit is a situational choice, rather than a requirement.
I have a different idea, for another action, that has a big CD and buffs the damage of more than just Carve and Spit, as Dark Arts needs to not serve that purpose again...

I am also not certain about the Shadow Wall idea, for the same reason. That was a problem in the past, for damage mitigation to be inferior outside of Dark Arts, and make Dark Arts a requirement, rather than a choice. I do want for Dark Arts to have effects on Dark Knight mitigation actions, but I am not certain that a direct mitigation buff is a good idea...

last, as for the return of Power Slash... I see people mention the "cost DarkSide" / make DarkSide a resource idea often, so here is a idea from me: Power Slash is a second 3 in the 1-2-3 combo, beside SoulEater, while Power Slash hits harder than SoulEater, but does not restore HP like SoulEater, and Power Slash also costs seconds off of the DarkSide duration, so this becomes a choice of sacrifice DarkSide for damage, but do not push that too far, with SoulEater as the safe alternative, along with its individual self-heal effect, so the Dark Knight has a choice of risk and reward damage, or safe damage with a self-heal.

as a side-note, I would also make it a lot more difficult to even upkeep and maintain DarkSide, though. For a example... Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow only grants and extends DarkSide by 15 seconds, instead of 30, and Power Slash can cost either 10 or 15 seconds of the DarkSide duration. This will force the Dark Knight to not just abandon SoulEater for Power Slash spam, which is good, and also makes the higher damage of Power Slash more like a relevant miniature burst, that forces the Dark Knight to pay more attention to DarkSide and its now more difficult upkeep and maintance, which I.. think(?) that Dark Knights would like, and to play around with, this new risk and reward game of DarkSide balance...

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

TBN needs to be brought up since it's losing Dark Arts as a trait.

Suggested Change:
- If TBN breaks, DRK will gain the trait Dark Rune
- Dark Rune reduces damage taken by 15% for a duration of 12secs
- Restores the DRK's HP with a Cure Potency of 500.

I've still yet to put more thought on the traits.

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And my opinions about The Blackest Night still remain the same... Its if-broken bonus as a offensive bonus is a liability and bad design. The if-broken bonus should be a defensive, utility, or self-sustain bonus. That said, MP = offensive potency when it comes to Dark knight, so I agree that The Blackest Night should also not cost MP, along side to no longer have a connection to, and no longer be a liability to, the Dark Knight's offensive potential.

Bring Back Dark Arts (3 stacks) on a 60 sec recast with 2 charges similar to Infuriate. It can cost MP or not depending on if TBN gets changed to a charge system (30 sec recast, 2 charges) and no MP cost, but here's a decent way of bringing it back while still maintaining that hard-on for being a WAR clone.

-DA buffs actions and abilities giving them utility or buff. It functions similar to IR change in EW where certain skills will use it automatically and has a long duration before it expires without using a stack. It only affects a limited tool set and no ogcd offensive actions to avoid more spamming. DA UI on job gauge increased to 3 to represent that DA is active and has stacks available to use.

Examples of weapon skills and actions are exclusively affected by Dark Arts, each action/ability uses one DA stack:

-Siphon Strike gains double MP
-Soul Eater reduces recast of Living Shadow by 5 seconds
-Unmend restores HP, cure potency
-Stalwart Soul restores HP, cure potency
-Dark Mind increase to 30% magic dmg reduction
-Shadow Wall gets counter-attack to magical spells, 65 potency

Generally the idea is that you use DA and have time to spend it on actions that you need and no double weaving of 4.0 DRK

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Perhaps you are right. Again, I never played 3.0 DRK. I just kept listening to the veteran 3.0 and 4.0 DRK players and formed my opinion here. Since a lot of DRK players did not like the Dark Arts spam in 4.0, I suggested that it'd only be an oGCD with charges to prevent spam.

However, having Dark Arts take away Darkside timer is a good idea. A great idea. Although, I do think this idea would fit better if BW got it's haste buff back.

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Back in 3.0 you had to really balance your Dark Arts usage to keep Darkside up because Darkside was passive mana drain and Dark Arts was an active mana drain. There were, however, burst phases when you would end up with heavy loads of MP to unleash (hah, get it? Unleash?). Darkside was essentially the same as it is now, but you actually had to maintain it. As it stands in the current system there is nothing to maintain. Someone smarter than myself did the math and in an ideal boss fight, including downtime, you overcap on Darkside by 12 minutes for every 10 minutes. This is with every 3000 MP being used on flood/edge either directly or breaking TBN. Even if you don't break TBN every time, that's still a massive overcap. In short, if you somehow manage to drop Darkside, you must be griefing.

But also there's a matter of intent. Dark Arts had a very short cooldown, it could be weaved every GCD. That was a little too much in some cases, but what it did have was intent. If Dark Arts is tied exclusively to 30 second cooldown based on Darkside, you can't really use it with the same type of intent. Yes, it can be timed, and yes, 30 second windows are usually ones that fall in line anyway, but the feeling of "Dark intentions" the class is meant to have leaves when it's on a hard timer like that. You used to chain Dark Arts with MP regeneration when you knew it was time to punish the boss.Tying it to consume Darkside means you will put it back into the burst phases it used to have since the idea is no longer to just dump your MP as soon as possible just to gain DPS, but you would have to alternate Edge/Flood with your new Dark Arts, build your MP back up over time, and have Dark Arts ready for when you want it to be ready.

I do like the idea of keeping it on a charge system, however, as during the downtime between bursts you could, theoretically, keep gaining Darkside and then consume it for a charge of Dark Arts in preparation for another burst phase, then start a burst phase with full Dark Arts and the ability to refill even more. This does, however, mean potency somewhere else would have to give, but if it adds something actually interesting to DRK then I'm fine with that. The job already has 0 mechanics that are actually meaningful.

And yes... Blood Weapon needs to be fixed.

- Remove Delirium as it is.
- Remove Carve and Spit as it is.

-Using bloodspiller or quietus gives you 2 Stacks of 'Delirium'. Maximum of 6.
- Add Dark Arts button. Converts Delirium Stacks into Dark Arts stacks.
- Dark Arts changes your GCDs, buffs their damage, adds MP regen and small lifesteal.
- Hard Slash > Power Slash
- Syphon Strike > Scourge (Applies the original dot)
- Souleater > Carve and Spit

Obviously just random spitballing, I'm not a numbers/timing person. Would buff Unleash and Stalwart Soul. Could change Flood of Shadow into Dark Passenger? Edge of Shadow into something else?

If you bring back the 3.0 animation. Then it should be a regen or burst heal since it looks like you are syphoning darkness from the aether around you.

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Originally Posted by Derio

If you bring back the 3.0 animation. Then it should be a regen or burst heal since it looks like you are syphoning darkness from the aether around you.

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I don't think they'll bring back anything. Clearly this job is designed for people not to have fun.. how dare you have fun. As a DRK you need to be miserable in conjunction with the storyline.

Okay, some new ideas for Dark Arts based on all the feedback so far.

The skill Dark Arts is obtained at level 40 alongside Edge of Darkness. This will introduce new players to the Dark Arts mechanic.

Dark Arts will play along with the Darkside timer. The timer will slowly fill up the DRK's Blood Gauge (will explain later). If the Darkside timer is up for at least 30secs, the DRK will gain a charge called, "Blood Rune". These "Blood Runes" work similar to Black Mages Enochain and Polyglot system. As long as the DRK's Darkside timer is up, DRK will eventually receive these "Blood Runes" which they can use to cast Dark Arts.

What will Dark Arts do?

• It's an oGCD.
• Applies a self-buff that lasts for 15secs.
• While DA is active, it will "alter" DRK's GCD combo.
• While DA is active, a handful (but not a lot) of oGCDs will receive DA bonuses.
• Applies a Haste buff on the DRK

What of the traits?

• Level 50: Obtain Dark Arts Practitioner - Upon entering an instance activity, DRK will have one "Blood Rune" ready for use.
• Level 60: Obtain Dark Arts Practitioner II - Receive a second "Blood Rune" charge.
• Level 70: Obtain Dark Arts Mastery - Upon entering an instance activity, DRK will have two "Blood Runes" ready for use.
• Level 90: Obtain Dark Arts Mastery II - Receive a third "Blood Rune" charge.

Upon activating Dark Arts will grant a new GCD combo. They won't be new skills you add to the hotbar; but rather, these skills will temporarily replace the GCD skills that DRK currently has while DA is up. These skills are:

• Soul Eater becomes Power Slash.
• Syphon Strike becomes Scourge.
• Hard Slash becomes old 3.0 Delirium skill renamed Spinning Slash.

What are the tool tips for these new GCD skills?

• Power Slash delivers an attack with a potency higher than hard slash Soul Eater.
• Scourge is a DoT ability.
• Spinning Slash delivers a high potency attack with a 3% magic vulnerability down debuff on the enemy.

Will you get these skills right away?
No. You earn them by levelling.
At level 50, Soul Eater can become Power Slash if Dark Arts is used. If Soul Eater has 400 Potency when using the GCD combo, then Power Slash will have a potency of 450. Basically, at early levels, you'll be spamming Power Slash for 15secs while DA is up until you receive the next GCD ability.

At level 58, DRK receives Scourge.
At level 66, DRK receives Spinning Slash

The new GCD combo will be this: Power Slash > Scourge > Spinning Slash (3, 2, 1)

As for the oGCDs affected by Dark Arts
Dark Mind receives a 20% mitigation bonus for Physical Attacks
Dark Missionary receives a 10% mitigation bonus for Physical Attacks
Carve and Split will recovers HP
Abyssal Drain will recover MP

Other Changes.

I mentioned the Blood Gauge earlier in my post. Simply put, I do not like the Blood Gauge mechanic. In my opinion, it really doesn't do anything for DRK aside from using Bloodspiller, Quietus, and Living Shadow. I think the Blood Gauge and Darkside timer should MERGE into one mechanic. That way, DRK won't be so similar to WAR.

As for the skills that rely on Blood Gauge? Here are the changes I recommend.

• Living Shadow will simply be an 90sec oGCD skill
• Bloodspiller and Quietus are simply GCDs that can be comboed into.

Let's take Bloodspiller for example. I'd like to see Bloodspiller as a 4th GCD skill that can be used after Soul Eater and the old 3.0 Delirium skills.

The new GCD combo for single target will be like this:

• Hard Slash > Syphon Strike > Soul Eater > Bloodspiller (1, 2, 3, 4)
• Power Slash > Scourge > Spinning Slash > Bloodspiller (3, 2, 1, 4)

Bloodspiller will do a high potency damage if used in a combo. For example, if Bloodspiller alone does 500 potency, then if the player does the GCD combo, the potency will be increased to 700.

Won't this affect the current Delirium skill?
No, not really. The current Delirium will remain the same, only this time the "stacks" you receive from the skill will allow the DRK to use Bloodspiller with the bonus potency damage without doing the GCD combo.

What about DRK's AoE?
I... haven't really thought about that yet. Need more time to think that one through.

So, the problem with the original DA was that you were basically forced to hit it. If you didn't, you lost damage. On top of that, it was an oGCD that could also affect other oGCDs meaning there was a lot of double-weaving that had to be done. It was just a very clunky system.

The way Sage is going about a similar DA mechanic with Eukrasia would be something I would prefer for DRK. Instead of just increasing damage, have DA provide other utility effects, like a DoT, HP drain, defensive buffs on self or party members, etc.

Like, DA Souleater to get Scourge.

DA Salted Earth to add a Regen to those in it.

DA Carve and Spit, Quietus, and Bloodspiller to get HP back.

DA Dark Mind to change it to a physical defense buff.

Edit: And have DA cost Darkside time since, as has been said, Darkside is something DRK barely even manages.

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

So, the problem with the original DA was that you were basically forced to hit it. If you didn't, you lost damage.

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So are you with every ability, though.

Also, due to the Delirium combo not consuming DA, you could bank DA in advance, meaning that you weren't actually forced to double-weave.

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Edit: And have DA cost Darkside time since, as has been said, Darkside is something DRK barely even manages.

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But then we'd have it tied to a mechanic(?), but not really (because Darkside isn't really a mechanic, except if/when we actually want to use DA a lot in a short time for some reason, in which case we run out of Darkside if between raid-buff dump periods but only during those times)...

Why tie it to dung just to... try to salvage said dung?

I miss the mana drain Dark Side provided. Also miss the fact that if your MP hit zero, it'd take you out of Dark Side.
Keeping your MP wasn't really difficult for me, but I enjoyed the fact that the possibility of messing up and paying for it existed. The inconvenience of the MP drain also gave the job some distinct feel and flavor, which are aspects that, to me at least, contribute far more in my enjoyment of the job than does its performance on the balance against other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

So are you with every ability, though.

Also, due to the Delirium combo not consuming DA, you could bank DA in advance, meaning that you weren't actually forced to double-weave.

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What you're proposing isn't really Dark Arts, though. Additionally, you reintroduced the problem of putting more damage in Dark Arts skills instead of making them changes to current skills. I only proposed a Regen effect and Physical damage to Salted Earth/Dark Mind since DRK lacks self sustain and good defensives before TBN. Honestly, I'd rather see Salted Earth get that as a trait upgrade in EW to match the other tanks. As for Dark Mind, I'd rather it be its current effect on top of generating a bit of HP every time you get hit. Return Blood Price with the same effect only providing physical defense, And, to top it all off, have these cooldowns be castable on other players. This adds a lot of utility and self-sustain to a job that's currently lacking it. Additionally, my propositions weren't about adding more damage. It was about adding utility. Only Souleater under DA would technically be a DPS gain since it applies a DoT instead, but you would only DA Souleater if you need to refresh Scourge.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

But then we'd have it tied to a mechanic(?), but not really (because Darkside isn't really a mechanic, except if/when we actually want to use DA a lot in a short time for some reason, in which case we run out of Darkside if between raid-buff dump periods but only during those times)...

Why tie it to dung just to... try to salvage said dung?

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The problem with Darkside actions currently is that it's not something to sustain. You're right. However, if they reduce how much you gain through using Darkside actions and have Dark Arts consume a decent amount, then there becomes real choice. Have Darkside actions only gain 10s of Darkside while Dark Arts consume 10s, and now there's a real balancing act.

Additionally, DRK should have a cooldown that allows it to apply Darkside whenever it wants (maybe even returning the old buff button as a self buff but make it so that it can't be cast outside of battle).

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

What you're proposing isn't really Dark Arts, though.

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Odd, given that I have yet to propose anything here regarding DA.

I merely disagreed that an ability like DA shouldn't result in lost performance if never pressed. If pressing a button doesn't ultimately result, even if situationally, in (party) damage (be that healer from mitigation, melee damage from increased uptime, or whatever else)... what is point of that button?

Heck, so long as the nominal value is equal (e.g, if DA were only to be attached to attacks, and always grant X additional potency in addition to doubling the defensively-aligned additional effects), there's also no issue there.

The only thing you must ultimately avoid is for the more complex spending options (e.g., the old DA-DM or DA-DD) to more often than not be overwhelmed in actual rDPS gains by the more basic options (DA-Souleater, in HW's case).

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Additionally, you reintroduced the problem of putting more damage in Dark Arts skills instead of making them changes to current skills.

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Again, I haven't done... anything with DA. I merely pointed out that HW DA did NOT force you to double-weave.

But, let's go ahead and talk about making them changes to current skills. If DA's only purpose is to adjust skills, yet you ultimately have the same capacities as everyone else... all you will have done is given DRK fewer buttons than the average tank (who instead split those defensives, etc., among two separate shared-cooldown keys, rather than DA + either side of that would-be pair) or less practical skills than the average tank (e.g., a 25% vs-physical or 25% vs-magic in place of a simple 20% vs-all). So what more are you adding here? DA can't be used just to shore up what DRK presently lacks or you end up with, again, an almost-equal tank that is just... clunkier, than the rest.

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I only proposed a Regen effect and Physical damage to Salted Earth/Dark Mind since DRK lacks self sustain and good defensives before TBN. Honestly, I'd rather see Salted Earth get that as a trait upgrade in EW to match the other tanks. As for Dark Mind, I'd rather it be its current effect on top of generating a bit of HP every time you get hit. Return Blood Price with the same effect only providing physical defense, And, to top it all off, have these cooldowns be castable on other players. This adds a lot of utility and self-sustain to a job that's currently lacking it. Additionally, my propositions weren't about adding more damage. It was about adding utility. Only Souleater under DA would technically be a DPS gain since it applies a DoT instead, but you would only DA Souleater if you need to refresh Scourge.

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So, this is promising; aside from the first bit, you clearly aimed for more than just bringing DRK up to snuff (though being able to cast all of these defensives externally is probably overkill, given that everyone else gets at most 2 raid-wides and a targeted external mitigation).

But that makes the question of resource all the more important.

When would we not DA? If we DA everything, after all, then it's not "DA", but rather just a weave-tax and a penalty for latency or needing to double-weave defensives in a particular GCD, much like a GNB with zero additional damage to show for its weave space lost to Continuation.

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Additionally, DRK should have a cooldown that allows it to apply Darkside whenever it wants (maybe even returning the old buff button as a self buff but make it so that it can't be cast outside of battle).

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Why would you spend another ability, let alone two, just to smother the existing interaction (Edge/Flood -> damage buff, with consumable duration, in your idea's case)? There's nothing wrong with us needing to bank a bit of duration before a jump if we really need a DA'ed Dark Mind for physical mitigation when there's no target to Edge/Flood.

I don't think the devs have any intention of bringing old dark arts back, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't expand on dark arts as it stands now.
But even that's doubtful, because that would mean there would be a reward for TBN usage, and they would have given us that by now if they wanted to.

Every time I come here and get reminded of DRKs state, I just get more disappointed.

Having a CD on Dark Art (10 or 15 seconds) could help balance powerful effects, and choosing which to use depending on the situation. Having it cost dark side timer would avoid too much drain on MP too.