Remember - you cannot review an MMO until 6 months after it's launch - which is today

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Originally Posted by Abriael

It's not a matter of agreement. Intentional hyperbole makes an opinion invalid simply because hyperbole is *by definition* straying from reality and facts.

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+1

And I thought AoC boards had a lot of hyperbole on them, they have nothing compared to the hyperbole on XIV boards.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

But honestly this shows how much this game has just stalled for like a year and SE is still asking us to wait and wait....

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Those who don't want to wait, don't. Those who do want to wait, do. I don't see what your issue here is. S-E sure as hell isn't going to discourage those who want to wait.

There have always been proper reasons for the lack of significant development (whether it is excusable or not is up to you).

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Originally Posted by NoMX

Actually, WOW fights pretty much follow the same formula. WoW is actually one of the biggest rotation-based games out there. You press 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 then repeat... Until you proc a skill then you get to press 6!

And the boss strategies? When they shit on the floor... don't stand in it. The end.

You always used the same tanks... You pretty much always got away with the same DPS members... At least in 11 you had to use different people for different things. Ninjas were better off tanking some things, paladins others... And the DPS strategies on each fight changed slightly as well. On WoW, any class could DPS on any fight... And paladin, warrior, or DK could tank any fight. You never needed any one specific class.

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That's what makes it good.... why wait 1-2 hours to find a group because you need ONE specific class to tank this ONE type of specific monster.... in WOW you got pallys, war, DK and Druids that could do the job. They all bring something different to the table too, but overall it makes partying much easier and faster.

I'll take 4 tank options over a single one anytime, any day.

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Originally Posted by NoMX

Actually, for what it is I'd say FF14 is a pretty good game. Lets think about it... How many good free to play games are there out there? And what is there to do in them?

-Grind
-Craft
-Usually PvP

Those are pretty much the only three things you can do in any free game. Final Fantasy XIV has the grind, and the crafting, and a bit of story (yes, we know, it isn't complete yet and they are expanding on it. It's the same way FF11 went... It took what, 2 or 3 years for them to finish updating WoTG story?). It sacrifices PvP but it brings that story telling aspect to the table. The missions are crazy easy and lack any real excitement from start to finish so far, but we're not that far into the game yet. They did a really good job on the cinematics, imo though.

Comparing FFXIV to other F2P games, I'd give it an 8.5/10.
Comparing FFXIV to the best retail P2P games (WoW and FFXI), I'd give it a 5.5/10

You can say it's not F2P because you bought the disc, but all those "F2P" games have micro-transactions that ruin the game completely and promote spontaneous expenditures. At one point on Rappelz, the average player spent $57 a month on the game's cash shop.

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yeah, alot of ppl don't understand that this is exactly how FFXI started. Thing is, it was released a whole year in Japan first! We did not see it in the States until the first expansion came out! So what we experienced was a fairly finished game with new jobs and areas to explore!

XIV just seems worse because as Americans we are not used to having an MMO launched in this way. But it's about on Par with what Square - Enix does with MMO's evidently. Maybe it's just the Japanese mentaility. *shrugs*

Regardless, I like this game enough to stick with it.

The game to me is a 3 out of ten. THe appeal of the game is fun till you reach lvl 15 then its boring. Ya its been 6 month and tweaks to the UI, cfrafting made those better. Even some quests they added were a 2 out of ten. Just like a Guild Leve but no sp. Right now theirs no reason to play. Only one thing to look forward to and that's NM's. Witch to me is crappy. Their is no endgame.

Aha this thread is good timing. I wrote a 3000 words long critique on the current FF14 on my blog, which probably is too long for copy paste.

http://blog.kgptzac.info/?p=1668

Opinions are welcomed :)

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Originally Posted by ryuuseikan

Aha this thread is good timing. I wrote a 3000 words long critique on the current FF14 on my blog, which probably is too long for copy paste.

http://blog.kgptzac.info/?p=1668

Opinions are welcomed :)

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Impressive review! Very thorough and professional. Would read again. :)

Ryuuseikan, superb review! Reviews like these serve as a much needed defibrillator.

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Originally Posted by ryuuseikan

Aha this thread is good timing. I wrote a 3000 words long critique on the current FF14 on my blog, which probably is too long for copy paste.

http://blog.kgptzac.info/?p=1668

Opinions are welcomed :)

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First page was good read. Second page was too much rant, too little review. One gem I found interesting in your conclusion:

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I share my fear with many others who think the new development team is more about PR-save-face than genuinely working toward the ambitious goal making FF14 a successful game.

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Also, disappointed that you included a photo of the Coliseum fight but didn't discuss it once.

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Originally Posted by Fieros

First page was good read. Second page was too much rant, too little review.

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Opinions are fine as long as they make some amount of sense. In this case it was not sadly the case.

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Originally Posted by Fieros

First page was good read. Second page was too much rant, too little review.

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I agree with this.

Review != rant. And most definitely Critique != rant.
Also, too much hyperbole slapped here and there. Your writing style isn't bad (besides the excessive use of hyperbole, which kills the validity of any kind of review). Contents need work, especially the conspiracy theorist part. That really has no place in a review or even less in a "critique".

Tbh I'm enjoying the game so far (ok, im still only physical lvl 11). The story quests so far have been entertaining enough to pull me thought. I've already found that a good way to cut up the grinding is to not do all the story quests in one gulp. Split them up a little. Do a bit of story, Level a little. Once you havee been running in the fields for some time, head back to the story.

^wait 'til you get to rank 15 or until you try crafting.

I actually think this game would have had a much better chance if they held it back a year. More suspense would have been built up for a more enjoyable game. Though, i do believe that we probably would have still been disappointed if things went that way, I really love this new dev team assisting and now we get to see the game become less of a steamer.

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^wait 'til you get to rank 15 or until you try crafting.

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my opening job was a crafter, I enjoy that job

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Something which discourages me about the state of this game is the following:

Closed Alpha
"The game only started testing phase guys shut up."

Closed Beta
"It's only a beta stop complaining so much the point is we need to test the problems."

Final Closed Beta
"Open beta will open up a lot more content and most of the problems will be fixed."

Open Beta
"It's still only open beta and a lot of the content is closed off and there are still bugs to work out."

Collector's Release
"Some of the content is probably being held off until standard release."

Main Release
"Let's give it a few months."

December
"The development team is being restructured. I bet they have a lot of content done already and it will probably be released around the time the PS3 release was supposed to come out, which is in March. I'm gonna wait until then to make an opinion."

Now
"Let's wait about 6 more months."

The game will never be "finished" as it's an MMO. As for when it'll be in a completely better state than it is now, don't be hopeful that it's going to happen anytime soon.

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I agree ppl keep giving the game time and making excuses but it still hasnt gotten much better what is finished in a MMO? very nice i give it as it is now a 3/10

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Originally Posted by Coombah

SE really needs to take a long hard look at these comments and get it going now while they still have players. I know recent hard times are the cause for things to be shut down but what about before that? The next patch that comes down the pipe needs to be huge and fix allot if not all these issues before it's to late.

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Again i agree but you get blind loyalist that acept this crap and call you a whiner for saying whats true this game has had time and not 1 important change has been made, in another 6 months they will whine about the same saying at that time, "Its only been one year why are ppl quiting?"... come tf on! ppl open your eyes and and to thoes who are blind by choice stop telling others to STFU do you think ppl will stay quite forever?

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

not 1 important change has been made

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Overhauled UI, Market Wards search, NMs.... yeah sure :D "Not one".

Guess some can't get by expressing their opinion without extensive use of hyperbole.
that's pretty much what marks the difference between someone expressing valid and argumented criticism and a "whiner".

People are only giving this game time because they know it needs time to become something, otherwise they wouldn't be waiting. DUH! xD

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl;49750[B

[SIZE="5"]FINAL VERDICT[/SIZE][/B](not an average)
I GIVE THIS GAME A 99





out of 200.

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I lol'd...

Truth is in this thread

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Overhauled UI, Market Wards search, NMs.... yeah sure :D "Not one".

Guess some can't get by expressing their opinion without extensive use of hyperbole.
that's pretty much what marks the difference between someone expressing valid and argumented criticism and a "whiner".

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Overhauled UI which is still way below the standard for MMORPGs.
Market Ward search function that still places the Market Wards below any AH system as far as convenience and ease of use goes.
5 Notorious Monsters that are neither particularly complex or hard to fight, nor enough for how much content the game needs.

Call his comment an hyperbole or whatever you want, the point stands: this game has gone nowhere near where it should be. Somewhere from where it stared? Sure, but that doesn't really matter considering where it started and looking at the pace we're going.

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Originally Posted by solracht

Overhauled UI which is still way below the standard for other MMORPGs.

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According to you. I disagree quite radically.

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Market Ward search function that still places the Market Wards below any AH system as far as convenience and ease of use goes.

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Convenience isn't end all be all. They are more flexible than a ah, and reintroduce impulse purchases, which is a rather indispensible elemenbt of any working economy, thing that AH's eliminated.

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5 Notorious Monsters that are neither particularly complex or hard to fight, nor enough for how much content the game needs.

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Partly true, but the sole introduction of the system itself is a significant change, thus voiding the "not one important change has been made" hyperbole.

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Call his comment an hyperbole or whatever you want, the point stands: this game has gone nowhere near where it should be. Somewhere from where it stared? Sure, but that doesn't really matter considering where it started and looking at the pace we're going.

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Of course it matters. It's improving, and at an actually fast pace compared to the rest of the market. Denying such improvement is an evident hyperbole, and as such invalid and classifiable as a whine.

Given the state of the game (still), the only reason I can come up with as to why some things in the game are still as broken as they are, is that they are working on implementing alot of content for the PS3 release. I only consider this given the nature of the patches they've released as well as the actual information they've been releasing to us (of which there have not been alot of real concrete specifics, mainly on things regarding the class and battle systems.... they must be stretched pretty thin)

I'm trying to be optimistic here.... :(

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Originally Posted by Abriael

According to you. I disagree quite radically.

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Then you have not played enough MMORPGs. I am personally happy with what we have, that doesn't mean it's not objectively worse than almost everything that exists out there. Where's the drag and drop that pretty much every MMORPG has? Where are the good mouse controls? Where's the full keyboard mapping? Why can't you click on people or on anything while crafting? Why can't you customize the way your ability bars show?

Should I continue?

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Convenience isn't end all be all. They are more flexible than a ah, and reintroduce impulse purchases, which is a rather indispensible elemenbt of any working economy, thing that AH's eliminated.

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When I said convenience, I wasn't talking about anything related to the economy. From an economic sense, the current market wards are pretty much World of Warcraft's Auction House without convenience of use (especially for the seller, who has to walk back and forth several times to put up items) and without open bids. If you were thinking about FFXI's one, then I'll have to bring up the first point again: you haven't played many MMORPGs.

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Of course it matters. It's improving, and at an actually fast pace compared to the rest of the market. Denying such improvement is an evident hyperbole, and as such invalid.

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No, just no.


I'd like to add that I have hopes for the game being better (otherwise I wouldn't be here) and I even find it enjoyable at times (for some reason), but that doesn't change how things are. I also think the game will see the big changes this year, but again, it doesn't change what has happened until now.

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Originally Posted by solracht

Then you have not played enough MMORPGs. I am personally happy with what we have, that doesn't mean it's objectively worse than almost everything that exists out there.

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Actually I played basically every major MMO (and many, many minor) since ultima online. The current UI isn't "perfect" but it's nowhere near the worst part of the group. It provides information quite nicely, has some interesting shortcuts that are actually quite innovative (like the general menu button that avoids having to select items to interact with) and so forth. Maybe you are the one that didn't see that many UIs, if you think this one is that bad compared to the rest.

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The current market wards are pretty much World of Warcraft's Auction House without convenience (especially for the seller) and without open bids. If you were thinking about FFXI's one, then I'll have to bring up the first point again: you haven't played many MMORPGs.

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As a seller, the fact that impulse purchases are encouraged instead of eliminated, gives me a greater chance to actually sell my wares, so no. I would disagree.

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No, just no.

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You're free to disagree, but the team is redesigning the game from the ground up, something quite unprecedented in the market. And they're doing a quite good (and rather fast) job with it. I guess some people are a tad too stuck on the "I want it now!" attitude.

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As a seller, the fact that impulse purchases are encouraged instead of eliminated, gives me a greater chance to actually sell my wares, so no. I would disagree.

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I reedited a little late, it seems (I wasn't getting the point across), but again, I wasn't talking about economics. Having to actually, physically purchase and sell items is still worse: you have to move back and forth in order to accomplish something that most AH systems in the market let you do by remaining stationary. It's below them as far as ease of use goes.

I'm not personally whining or even care about it, but it doesn't change that it's more steps than other systems, and thus probably annoying for a lot of people.

And before you mention the economic advantage of the wards again: most current AH systems (and at the very least, the system most people are used to) are exactly what we have, without that inconvenience I mentioned. The open bid function is not used often, and I'm pretty sure that feature is not what people are thinking of when they say they want an AH.

Also to clarify: when I said "standards", I was talking about nowaday's standards.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

Presentation - 5/10
Graphics - 7.8/10
Gameplay - 3/10
Sound - 8.7/10
Lasting appeal - 2/10
Final - 99/200

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Seems like an honest review. Everyone here cares enough about the game to share opinions and feelings about the various game aspects, and I respect that alot. For me I feel like the game is still in beta, so I don't think it's fair to pass FINAL judgement until they start charging monthly subscriptions.

I Did my best to rate things based on my previous gaming experiences, but I know that if I went back and rated FFXI or WoW on similar scales from the perspective of an MMO virgin, I think things might not be so different.

System: 6/10
Graphics - 8/10
* Actual graphics are top notch, however unless playing at 50-60 fps, the UI suffers greatly.
Sound - 8/10
* Music is often good, but not great. There are a few sound bugs.
UI - 4/10
* Often find myself wishing things were a much "snappier" and more intuitive. Easily one of the biggest drawbacks to the game at the moment.

Gameplay: 4.5/10
Leveling - 4/10
* Leves are not a total bore, but after you've seen all the leves in the game, you begin to want even oldschool FFXI exp parties.
Economy - 5/10
* Needs an Auction House as primary market.
World - 3/10
* 5 zones so far, and you don't even have to go to two of them to reach max level. Main story isn't complete. FFXIV feels more like a Facebook game than a fantasy world. The copy/pasted environments turn me off quite a bit.
Combat - 7/10
* There's much room to improve, but compared to other games I think a 7 is fair until I see the big changes they have planned.
Crafting - 9/10
* Unique, fun system. It's not perfect, but I enjoy it quite a bit.
Lasting Appeal" - 3/10
* Simply not enough content in the game. The world is not developed enough yet, and without endgame or real story, it's hard to feel motivated to keep logging in.

Overall: 5/10
* Things just aren't there yet. I feel like the Dev team has done a good job of acknowledging that fact so far, but the amount of work required to make this game great is immense. FFXIV has potential, so I'll stick around and keep playing each week until I decide the game is a lost cause. The bottom line is that I don't see my old self picking this game up as I did with FFXI and WoW and enjoying it as much.

Dang, what a mouthful! Sorry for the text wall, guys!

I still think this game is just fine for the moment, more to add and eventually will become better, just like any MMORPG...

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Of course it matters. It's improving, and at an actually fast pace compared to the rest of the market. Denying such improvement is an evident hyperbole, and as such invalid and classifiable as a whine.

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I see comments like this then out of curiosity I check the update notes for DC Universe Online and Rift.

DC Universe Online Launched on January 11, 2011
Here is their 1.1 Update released a bit over a month after launch.
http://mmopatchnotes.com/dc-universe...february-2011/

Rift Launched on March 1st
Less than a month later they got their 1.1 patch
http://mmopatchnotes.com/rift-1-1-li...011/#more-1198

So, ya Improving... a tiny bit. Faster pace than the rest of the market, heck no.

i wonder if abriael ever see any problem with this game at all ,every post is "! no way , game rox you wrong !"

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

Remember - you cannot review an MMO until 6 months after it's launch

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Id agree MMO's need breathing time to iron out kinks and get some content, but there is 1 small problem I see specifically regarding FFXIV. I dont even consider it launched, let alone half a year (plus) on the market! It was grossly premature and by the looks of things even at its 1st birthday is still not going to be completely out of the hole it dug itself by trying to beat Cata in the hopes of pulling some of Blizzards customers.

I havent played in over 3 months and even tho I drooled and hell even lusted (!) over this title (thanks to my memories of XI), I dont see myself getting back into it until chocos & PS3 drops (Im guessing/hoping by such time there will have been enough improvements overall to get me back on board for good, because Im pretty sure if I really try give XIV another chance and it fails, Ill be saying bye bye forever and that'll be a very sad day :/ C'mon SE, get radical, get busy!!)

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It's improving, and at an actually fast pace compared to the rest of the market. Denying such improvement is an evident hyperbole

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Hyperbole. Invalid.

I must admit, I cannot help get the feeling this game is unfinished (although I am still enjoying it, but it could be better by far). However, there are many promising aspects to be added later on. Some of these aspects have been mentioned by SE. Some of them simply rumoured.

For those aspects which Se have confirmed, I truely hope they meet expectations. If they can pull that off, and conitnue to deliver in the future, I believe FFXIV would have a promising future

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

i wonder if abriael ever see any problem with this game at all ,every post is "! no way , game rox you wrong !"

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Which personally I find amusing since the people now in charge of the game itself say it needs a lot of work and its boring. To each his own I suppose.

I am quite enjoying this soap opera of a thread. I've giggled and hit "like" a few times, rolled my eyes and wished I could hit "hate" a few others, but hey, we all have opinions. Now I get to add mine to the mix.

When I look at this game, I see a game designed to encourage people to take their time. There are penalties built in for over-engaging a task, such as fatigue, limitations on guildleve numbers in a 36 hour period and anima regeneration times inhibiting high levels of transport. All of these seem designed to put a brake on people steamrolling out of proportions.

And so I am deliberately taking my time. I have been playing steadily since open beta and my highest rank currently is 38 in mining with a physical level of 46. Looking at what I've been doing to get this far, I look back and think "how did I enjoy that?" The answer is twofold - firstly, I didn't try doing it all at once; secondly, I took every opportunity to do it in a slightly different way with my Linkshell friends. ie: I socialized, both in real life and also online. It made things so much more fun for this person who plays video games almost every day.

And had I not taken my time like this, I would have stopped playing by now.

I realize that there is a lot to be desired with this game. And I agree. Content particularly - the reason I get drawn into FF games is because one of things they do well is world, lore and culture. I see an awesome backbone and I want there to be a lot more done with it. But then I haven't reached the Rank 46 "climax" yet (some people tell me it isn't one) so I'm not too fussed yet. Give it a few months then I might be starting to work myself up. If they have the first expansion around then, I'll be laughing. And by then they'll have done more user interface and mechanical tweaks as well, which I can take in my stride for an easier ride.

So now I look at all these people with multiple rank-50 achievements and think to myself: "No wonder you guys are so frustrated. You're playing the game faster than they can make it. If you slipped into the groove, you'd enjoy the ride."

/opinion

I'm off to bed since it's just after midnight down here in Australia. I expect some people to have disagreed with me by the next time I'm on. I'll see you later if you're on Figaro.

I'll just say that the music is the most tired and uninspired Uematsu i have ever heard. I am much more satisfied by turning it off and listening to the excellent background SFX. So...

- Music: 2/10
- Ambient Sounds: 9/10

I would have preferred Hitoshi Sakimoto's epic orchestral music to be in this game instead. When i heard Nubou Uematsu was working single-handedly on the music, I couldn't help but to have a bit of doubt.

I wonder what happened to the memorable FF7-FF9 music? I can remember those, and even his work on the few FFXI tracks he composed. I just dont think that 10 years from now, any of the tracks for FFXIV will be as memorable.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

I would have preferred Hitoshi Sakimoto's epic orchestral music to be in this game instead. When i heard Nubou Uematsu was working single-handedly on the music, I couldn't help but to have a bit of doubt.

I wonder what happened to the memorable FF7-FF9 music? I can remember those, and even his work on the few FFXI tracks he composed. I just dont think that 10 years from now, any of the tracks for FFXIV will be as memorable.

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Really? Personally, I find FF7 AND FF9 music to be pretty boring. I like FF8, FF11, and FF14's music. Nobuo Uematsu did a good job with FFXIV, as far as Im concerned.

I even taught myself how to play some of the songs on piano, which is usually a good indicator.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

I would have preferred Hitoshi Sakimoto's epic orchestral music to be in this game instead. When i heard Nubou Uematsu was working single-handedly on the music, I couldn't help but to have a bit of doubt.

I wonder what happened to the memorable FF7-FF9 music? I can remember those, and even his work on the few FFXI tracks he composed. I just dont think that 10 years from now, any of the tracks for FFXIV will be as memorable.

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I know it comes down to individual taste but when I read that people don't like the FFXIV music or think it's bland I have to wonder what they're smoking. I thought FF9 was super bland. It was obvious he was running out of steam after composing so much music. That's why FFX had 3 composers. Obviously he felt the need to tone down and switch gears. FFXIV sounds like a great composer who 10 years after burning out has found true revitalization. I really think it's his best work yet. La Noscea, Coerthas, Gridania, Twilight over Thanalan, some of the cutscene music.. it's incredible. I think any one of those tracks compares favorably to the whole score of some of those other games.

Hitoshi Sakimoto did not compose any orchestral music. All his music was done via synth and programs for FFXII, and the few orchestral piece on the soundtracks were orchestrated/arranged by Hayato Matsuo. Sure, he uses a lot of percussion and rhythm in his tracks, but in terms of melody, Sakimoto falls below Uematsu. Not that I dislike Sakimoto's music, in fact I do like it (the Salikawood and Phon Coast are some of my favourite pieces), I still prefer the melodious nature of Uematsu's music.