The herb is always greener on the other side. I was reading somewhere else some hours ago how Mythic+ was a failed content, which makes you redo the same dungeon other and other and other again, the only difference being that it was each time a bit more or less difficult. How it was a cheap solution so that the players "have something to do", while in fact it is no more than boring corean f2p mindless grinding. How doing the same thing on +2, then +4, then +6, then +9, then +10, etc... was a poor attempt at hiding the lack of truly new content.
As for massive pulls in dungeons neither of you two are wrong. Of course it goes faster that way, but the last time i did see in a random group a tank beginning by small pulls instead of taking everything to the next closed door, he was instantly greeted by a "only x mobs ? Are you f****** kidding me ?".
Omega and future raid concerns
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06-21-2018, 08:11 PMKleeya
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06-21-2018, 08:29 PMRemedi
I can tell you this about mythic+ and legion in general.
If I wanted to play Diablo 3 I would've played Diablo 3
Also there's to say that I've played several seasons on D3 and incurred in the same problems in all of them.
As a system it's fun when you can progress faster but gets incredibly dull once you reach a certain cap.
The fact that they tried to emulate that on a game who is much worse on the gearing and drops really didn't sold me on the prospect.
It was simply an attempt to entice ppl in doing challenge modes dungeons after they failed 2 times in the past.
Both pandaria and WoD challenge modes have been a failure for the general ppl but they were a good addition for a niche audience and imho it should've stayed like that.
Actually they should've made them much harder and without a time limit, let me beign challenged by the content and not by how fast I can run it, but maybe it's just me liking cata and bc level heroic talking -
06-21-2018, 08:38 PMBubblyBoarQuote:
Originally Posted by Adelaide3
Actually....yes I do. But I also have no problem with savage raiders have their own extra form in savage. As long as it stays just that, it's fine. Neo and God are kinda towing the line as they are basically a brand new fight. but that's the upper limit I'm willing to accept.
Not everyone gets enjoyment out of the same thing the same way. Some people play to see the game while others play to beat the game. Both are valid and reasonable. -
06-21-2018, 08:58 PMDualgunnerRemember kids, raiders are the toxic ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
I swear this is comedy gold. -
06-21-2018, 09:07 PMAmeelaYes and there's also nothing wrong with rewarding players who beat the game to also be able to see more of the game, otherwise what's the point of even trying to beat it?Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblyBoar
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06-21-2018, 09:44 PMDerio
As a non raider I dont agree with the OP. People who raid dedicate countless hours, and they deserve to see exclusive scenes and boss fights. If you have a problem with it. Just watch a video of a savage clear like the rest of us casuals.
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06-21-2018, 10:16 PMHyoMinParkI believe the technical terminology for the statement you quoted is "talking out of one's behind".Quote:
Originally Posted by DaulBan
I had a friend who, up until Stormblood, played and raided on a toaster laptop that hovered at around 11 FPS. He still managed to raid in every tier since Binding Coil. Hardware is not a limiting factor in the tuning of mechanics. The PS4 Pro is more powerful than some PCs are. But, we do have to grasp at straws, I suppose. :rolleyes: -
06-21-2018, 10:53 PMKisaiTenshiThat's what I said. Why would anyone willing play the exact same dungeon with mobs that just have higher HP and are otherwise identical? Nobody willingly takes a handicap for no benefit, and the only reason Mythic+ works at all is that the reward changes. It's the same in Mabinogi. 99% of the time players just ignore these "more challenging" options because that doesn't give them a clear, and it doesn't give them a reward, it's simply a race. Mabinogi's original dungeons were also pseudo-randomly generated (eg one may have 4 rooms per floor, another may have 30) where as all the content that came out after it used fixed maps and simply made you kill things to find keys that opened different doors in a different order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleeya
That's fun, maybe once. But do you really expect someone to play the dungeon 10 times to clear all the difficulty levels when there's no practical difference between them? No. It's an intentionally lazy way to squeeze more life out of dead content and this is how it would likely look like in FFXIV:
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"Begin New Duty+ mode":
0(-)---------10
[ ] Minimum ilevel
[ ] No items
[ ] No Abilities
[ ] No job stone
[ ] No materia
[ ] Time Trial
Skill level rating: Kitten
No bonuses will be offered for this dungeon as it is below your skill level.
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"Begin New Duty+ mode":
0---------(-)10
[x] Minimum ilevel
[x] No items
[x] No abilities
[x] No job stone
[x] No materia
[x] Time Trial
Skill level rating: Ascion
400% increase to (tomes/gil/seals). Level 10 Materia for completion in under XX:XX time. Tomes given will not be subject to weekly limits.
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Mabinogi gated these things with dungeon passes you actually had to hunt or buy off the cash shop. WoW has Keystones that basically do the same thing.
You can't tell me you haven't seen anything in this game where the effect and animation was seconds behind where it actually was. You know BLM's complain about this all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Go unsync any content, and drag the monster train all the way to the boss room and then hit your AOE bomb. You'll see a good 15 second delay as all the mobs die even on a high end machine.
Now apply that to "harder content" that consists of throwing more monsters at you. It's simply not going to be a thing. -
06-21-2018, 11:21 PMSebazyJust to clarify, this effect is actually a server side limitation that is in part down to the radial nature in which AoEs are applied in serial rather than parallel. Pazazu’s distance based AoE is a great example of this at peak hours, you can actually hear the effect resolving over the space of a few seconds. It has nothing to do with your client or it’s performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
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06-21-2018, 11:52 PMRemyogicExcept that it isn't a simple numbers pass. The difficulty in Savage isn't the numbers (The World first for Ultimate had DPS at slightly above 5K); it' the mechanics. Introducing the extra phase (where the "Savage" level mechanics are mostly present) in a Normal mode would mean re-working the entire phase, hence making it nothing more than the same boss with a new skin. They tried this with a couple of Primals, namely Shinryu, where the Normal mode phases were fairly similiar to the Extreme mode phases, but with lower number requirements.............and all hell broke loose with casuals crying for nerfs to Normal cause they couldn't handle the mechanics. So, what's the point? SE is just pre-empting the casual playerbase by releasing the fight already nerfed to the core for Normal mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli85
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06-22-2018, 01:21 AMLord_Umbra
Well it's very simple wait a year, during the next expansion at iLvl 450+ you'll be able see all of the Savage tiers in easy mode unsynced.
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06-22-2018, 01:51 AMAana
The bottom line is the casual/non-raider/insert label player has MORE access now than ever.
2.X: Coil
You want to see ANY of the story? Raid. The end. No 'story mode' to see what happens.
non-raiders complain they cant access the story. Non raiders cant get glamour.
3.X: Alexander
SE adds much easier 'normal' mode with weekly gear rewards.
SE adds 2nd phase to the final boss in Raid level difficulty.
Non raiders get the entire story and even a non-dyed glamour.
Raiders no longer have exclusive access to the entire set of story/gear, but get a nod in the final boss phase with robots.
4.x (now)
Same model as 3.x. Only difference is each 4 fight raid tier has a second phase final fight instead of just the 3rd and final set.
Non raiders are back to complaining they dont get access to all content........Wut?
SE has gone significantly out of their way to give non raiders ALL the content. You get the gear. You get the story. You get specially tuned easier versions of the raids for just that reason. But no, you need every last drop of content. Well guess what, you can get it. Just like you can go trash coil as a level 70 and see all the 'missed' content, you can sit your butt down and wait til 5.x when you can power through this stuff to see a second phase of a boss.
Raiders have gone from exclusive access to the entire story/glamour/experience to having a token extra fight phase. Either get good enough to beat it, or wait until it goes into the play pin and you out level it. You have 95% of the raid experience available on release. You can wait your turn or git gud for the last 5%.
Coldnt farm ponys because you werent leet enough? Now people spam them in <1min for Chloe. Go get it now with higher drop rates and EZGG faceroll fights. Everyone can access everything. When you can access it depends on your skill and playtime. You will see kefka just like you can now see bahaumut. -
06-22-2018, 01:52 AMNoctusT
So apparently there’s actually this surefire way of seeing god kefka and Neo exdeath... it’s called LEARNING YOUR DAMN JOB AND CLEARING THE FIGHTS. They’ve lowered the difficulty of the fights already so more people can access them and you can eventually just unsync fights. You have access to so much content in this game without putting any effort into it at all. Let savage remain how it is (but increase the difficulty of the fights a bit please if we aren’t going to get ultimate encounters till the next expansion).
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06-22-2018, 05:25 PMKaliesto
looking back from past experiences with Savage Raids after I saw some flaws with my argument, I think the mechanic's speed is throwing most off as some are not as adaptable as others. Good example is Exdeath Savage, when he casts Blackhole and along with other damaging effects that it becomes a rather difficult situation just to attempt a stack without hitting someone by accident.
This type of game shouldn't try to do twitchy split second mechanics because the character's speed is not really efficient for this (and sprint can only save you a few times). Also the Healers tend to get punished a lot in Savage from what I've seen due to the chaos they can't control because of the mechanics. Though I've seen amazing healers, but they're very very few.
Personally I have no issue how fast the mechanics can get, but for others it is a trial for them.
To add about the healers those particular classes tend to get the most complaints with DPS being right behind them (mainly DPS checks if you're not doing enough) and Tank classes getting the least complaints for obvious reasons. I think the savage mechanics combined with healers tend to be terrible situation for them compared to DPS & Tanks. -
06-22-2018, 05:58 PMBillyKaplanYes, that's what Savage is all about, and if you're not good enough for that, them's the breaks. It's that sort of content, designed with that in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaliesto
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06-25-2018, 04:37 PMCelefWell, not having a roster for instance is a "good reason" to not do this kind of content ^^"Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelaide3
With my CL we tried to recruit in order to start Savage but, as we are considered "late" in progression, we can't find good players :/ (not the kind that will PL us, just the kind who knows the job and has patience) -
06-26-2018, 04:50 AMshibeouya
I have mixed feelings on this.
I feel that it makes sense and is ok to have Savage-specific phases for bosses. A8S is a great example, very well designed fight, and you get a brand new form at the end, yet the normal encounter still feels very complete and satisfying.
For the SB raids though, it is quite cheap for them to play on the nostalgy cord. They're taking final bosses that people already know, yet holding a majority of the players to see their final form that anyone who has played those games was expecting to see. It is in some way ok for O4S as the normal encounter still feels rather complete. But O8S just ends so abruptly and feels incomplete.
It will probably be OK in O12S (assuming Omega is the final baddie) because although Omega is known in the series, it does not have an iconic form that people are expecting to see.
In short, I think it's good for them to have Savage-specific forms when content is FFXIV-specific, but NOT when it's throwbacks to old FF games with well-known bosses.