Red Mages need some love

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

If Impactful has <2.5 or so seconds remaining (effectively 3 since we can't see fractions of seconds remaining) then you won't be able to get the cast off in time before the proc drops. Currently we can cast Jolt II, Verfire, or Verstone instead to account for this if we know we won't have time, but if Jolt and Impact become a single button then if we don't have either Verfire or Verstone procced we lose that option and would have to either wait that up to 3 seconds before being able to cast Jolt or resort to casting Vercure.

It's not likely to happen if casting Impact properly, since you'd need to get 100% procs for ~25s and miss casting it at the ~8s remaining mark, but it does introduce that bit of potential clunkiness.

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I see, havent' tought of that scenario

One change I would like to see is for them to make the Impactful status mean more than "I can use this extra spell now". My idea is to have Impactful increase the chance of Ver-Ready procs by 10%, similar to Straight Shot for Bards.

I also would like to see a White and Black AOE added with long cast timers (VerMiasma + VerBlizzard???) to dual-cast after Scatter and get rid of Enchanted Scatter.

I feel some potency buffs are in order also as, while we do bring utility, it's not near the level of utility of Ninja's and Bard's, which is where Red Mage DPS is at right now. I think red Mage should fall somewhere in the neighborhood of Monk-Machinist-Dragoon.

Red Mage is slightly behind Bard and Ninja (damage wise) and do not bring much in terms of group utility for raiding atm.
I like your idea about impactful @ Remyogic

RDMs "super cool" utility only is relevant IF more than 3 ppl die in 1 Minute. So it is relevant if 50% of the Raid die. GREAT UTILITY!!!

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Originally Posted by TelosNox

RDMs &quot;super cool&quot; utility only is relevant IF more than 3 ppl die in 1 Minute. So it is relevant if 50% of the Raid die. GREAT UTILITY!!!

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Utility that eats 75% of your MP in less than 5 seconds, that is (as one rezz usually costs around 25% for one cast). Personally as RDM player, i wonder if the devs have already considered giving us at least one new AoE for the next cap raise? something like VerWater or VerDark or maybe a ground-target utility buff.

Verblizzard and Verwater probably

As a sch i reguse rdm in prog xD i just cant stand "im a rdm i can res". Sorry if my static adds rdm i leave xD

Turn their raise into and 90s cd instant off global, and give them some actual utility because right now embolden is ass.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

As a sch i reguse rdm in prog xD i just cant stand "im a rdm i can res". Sorry if my static adds rdm i leave xD

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Gonna have to quote your sig: what?

Red Mage's ability to raise, thus saving you a GCD and mana...is a reason you're rejecting it? I mean, honestly the only reason to look the other way on RDM is because they bring low damage and low utility to the fight; you might as well take a SMN and you'd be in a much better spot. But rejecting them because they can raise...that's a new one.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Gonna have to quote your sig: what?

Red Mage's ability to raise, thus saving you a GCD and mana...is a reason you're rejecting it? I mean, honestly the only reason to look the other way on RDM is because they bring low damage and low utility to the fight; you might as well take a SMN and you'd be in a much better spot. But rejecting them because they can raise...that's a new one.

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Sorry but i ratjer habe people not dying aswell. Learn the hard way without a rdm to carry ressed.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

Sorry but i ratjer habe people not dying aswell. Learn the hard way without a rdm to carry ressed.

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I mean... what?

I think what you're trying to say is that if your party needs a RDM to raise to clear a fight you need to get better at the fight. As someone who has just started playing RDM in Savage I agree.

If you're looking at prog though... no? Having your party live longer during prog is literally the goal. See the mechs in order to figure out how to beat the mechs. Having someone who can raise both healers back to back is nothing but an advantage. No group walks into Savage, especially later tier Savage, and sweeps it in one pull. There is a lot of death with or without a RDM. All a RDM can do is reduce the number of times you're restarting because with a RDM in the party you don't have to wipe to double dead healers 100% of the time. That isn't "carrying ressed" it's called using utility.

Also at this point I'm tired enough for ad hominems - learn how to type, please.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I mean... what?:D

Also at this point I'm tired enough for ad hominems - learn how to type, please.

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Im on phone:) dont expect people to write 100% where this game has different people from other county aswell:)

It is true in what you are saying. I mean cmon. Rdm only became relevant bcuse of res for progs and bad non magical utility. Also alexander was doable without a rdm:) alexander was lot harder than delta and sigma 1-2 savage imo:) (actually most people iknow agrees).
Point is if u pug prog thats on you. Dont expect much even tho it might help.
I personally prefer dmg utility on prog IN STATIC so it can become easier to kill faster and learn the Pattern and timing of ur skill usage to allign. Cuse u evt will kill it anyways at the end of the day.
Dont come here and say what again:) no point tying to open my eyes when i alrdy know these stuff.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

As a sch i reguse rdm in prog xD i just cant stand "im a rdm i can res". Sorry if my static adds rdm i leave xD

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The point of this post is how to make RDM more desirable for post-prog to prevent people like you to have any more reason to refuse it.

It's like you didn't even read the OP and went in here just to say how much you don't like playing with RDMs. :p

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Originally Posted by Sayori

I feel like Red Mages get the low end of the stick after progression ends. Now don't get me wrong, Red Mage is a great job to progress on due to the spam raises, but once progression ends and you have everything on farm, is there really any point to taking a red mage?

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Well I personally hate pet classes, and I don't like dot classes, so right there makes SMN no fun for me. In regards to BLM, at least until you unlock all the crafting you need to socket more materia and farm enough materia to get max spell speed...RDM is just better mobility and thus a lot more fun to play then BLM.

Having gotten both to the 60 range my RDM just feels more powerful then my BLM, and less stressful to play. Frankly if any class really needs love in my opinon it's the BLM, as it's timer is just NOT fun to play around where RDM not only is stylish, versatile, but mobile. The only thing I feel it really lacks is the hard hitting melee that the three hit combo should be that you build towards.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Having gotten both to the 60 range my RDM just feels more powerful then my BLM, and less stressful to play. Frankly if any class really needs love in my opinon it's the BLM, as it's timer is just NOT fun to play around where RDM not only is stylish, versatile, but mobile. The only thing I feel it really lacks is the hard hitting melee that the three hit combo should be that you build towards.

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For a selfish DPS, BLM are in a good spot right now. RDM needs help because it's not as mobile as SMN, and doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as either SMN or BLM. Additionally, RDM might be versatile, but that versatility is completely undesirable and actively discouraged outside of prog. If you you look at it from an end game farm and speed run perspective, you have to take away the heals and take away the raise. Once you do that, RDM is just a subpar caster DPS class.

Also regarding BLM timers, managing it has become a lot easier and a lot less frustrating with many of the QoL changes given, such as a longer Firestarter proc and 8s Transpose. Back when Transpose was 12s, you could definitely argue that maintaining was frustrating as sometimes you would see issues with ping. Highlight BLM timers as a problem with the job now (when it isn't) just shows you prefer RDM for its ease, which is perfectly fine. But once again, actual job difficulty can't be considered outside of prog, since if you're in a farm situation you would be pretty comfortable with your job no matter how hard the job is.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

Im on phone:) dont expect people to write 100% where this game has different people from other county aswell:)

It is true in what you are saying. I mean cmon. Rdm only became relevant bcuse of res for progs and bad non magical utility. Also alexander was doable without a rdm:) alexander was lot harder than delta and sigma 1-2 savage imo:) (actually most people iknow agrees).
Point is if u pug prog thats on you. Dont expect much even tho it might help.
I personally prefer dmg utility on prog IN STATIC so it can become easier to kill faster and learn the Pattern and timing of ur skill usage to allign. Cuse u evt will kill it anyways at the end of the day.
Dont come here and say what again:) no point tying to open my eyes when i alrdy know these stuff.

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I'm also on my phone. I still manage to type complete sentences that appear cohearent ;)

Your bias against RDMs is silly and pointless beyond personal preference especially as a healer - apart from raising RDMs have the easiest time Mana Shifting without dps loss and while they don't bring more pDPS than a BLM they do have more utility (since anything has more utility than BLM) since Embolden (while not amazing) is still better than nothing.

The funniest part is most RDMs, myself included, would absolutely love to stick Verraise on a CD in exchange for potency increases and/or some more rDPS-leaning utility. That's been like... a major topic throughout this thread and others.

You come off as needlessly prejudiced here, almost like you don't like RDMs just because they're RDMs. That's really shortsighted. Get better my dude.

Also... what?

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Originally Posted by Popotato

For a selfish DPS, BLM are in a good spot right now. RDM needs help because it's not as mobile as SMN, and doesn't do anywhere near as much damage as either SMN or BLM. Additionally, RDM might be versatile, but that versatility is completely undesirable and actively discouraged outside of prog. If you you look at it from an end game farm and speed run perspective, you have to take away the heals and take away the raise. Once you do that, RDM is just a subpar caster DPS class.

Also regarding BLM timers, managing it has become a lot easier and a lot less frustrating with many of the QoL changes given, such as a longer Firestarter proc and 8s Transpose. Back when Transpose was 12s, you could definitely argue that maintaining was frustrating as sometimes you would see issues with ping. Highlight BLM timers as a problem with the job now (when it isn't) just shows you prefer RDM for its ease, which is perfectly fine. But once again, actual job difficulty can't be considered outside of prog, since if you're in a farm situation you would be pretty comfortable with your job no matter how hard the job is.

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Fist off while the timers may be easier to manage, that doesn't make them fun to play with. Second, if anything goes sideways BLM has literally NO options to help it's team, it's as you say a "selfish class". While RDM does need some damage love, the fact that you can help keep things from going completely off the rails should someone screw up I imagine is more helpful even in a raid then a BLM where you can't even play it properly unless you satisfy a long list of 'requirements' to even get the most out of it. So yes, I would rather take versatility over a BLM's lackluster play-style and it's inherent lack of mobility in a game that demands so much. Even if the RDM is lacking, it is leagues better then anything the BLM has.

As I said before, the biggest thing I feel should be changed about the RDM is that it's melee attack should be in the 300 mark per stage, minimum. Make it more of a burst type DPS, which I feel would fit in with the duel-cast mechanic.

If a Red Mage is raising members multiple times in Savage chances are your team will not meet the dps check.
I agree with everyone here about changes that are needed for Rm. As it currently stands i had to go as Nin as we had too many Red Mages and the other 2 casters are now blm and smn.
Red Mage just does not bring value to Savage.

@ Johaandr, am i reading it correctly that you would want dmg over utility?
So SAM over say Ninja even though some Ninjas can do more damage + bring group utility?
That makes no sense, lol

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

Sorry but i ratjer habe people not dying aswell. Learn the hard way without a rdm to carry ressed.

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Fair, but that's not answering the question. You refuse to have a RDM in the group because they can raise. SMN can also raise, will you reject them in your parties too?

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Well I personally hate pet classes, and I don't like dot classes, so right there makes SMN no fun for me. In regards to BLM, at least until you unlock all the crafting you need to socket more materia and farm enough materia to get max spell speed...RDM is just better mobility and thus a lot more fun to play then BLM. Having gotten both to the 60 range my RDM just feels more powerful then my BLM, and less stressful to play.

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Aren't you the one who made the thread that you don't like BLM because of how it plays, despite how that's the intended playstyle and the BLM playerbase by and large likes it?

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Frankly if any class really needs love in my opinon it's the BLM, as it's timer is just NOT fun to play around where RDM not only is stylish, versatile, but mobile.

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And weak. Very, very weak. About as weak as BRD or NIN, actually. Anywhere from last place on DPS rankings to third from the bottom in the current tier's 90th percentile. And it lacks the damage support its peers have to justify this. As most of the people who posted in your thread answered, the timer is, for them, very fun to manage, and as somebody who dabbled with it a bit myself, I can see the appeal even if the job's archetype (nuke caster) isn't quite what I'm looking for (spellblade).

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The only thing I feel it really lacks is the hard hitting melee that the three hit combo should be that you build towards.

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That is one of the discussed ways of improving RDM's damage, yes.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Aren't you the one who made the thread that you don't like BLM because of how it plays, despite how that's the intended playstyle and the BLM playerbase by and large likes it?

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Really? because the polls I found (even if they were back in heavenward) show that...over half did NOT like the job. Furthermore, if it was such a good job why do you not run into it as much during raids? I tend to see more SMN and RDM then BLM...even more MCH then BLM. There are only three magic casters, so why is it that the BLM seems to be the least popular, and by a significant margin?

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Really? because the polls I found (even if they were back in heavenward) show that...over half did NOT like the job. Furthermore, if it was such a good job why do you not run into it as much during raids? I tend to see more SMN and RDM then BLM...even more MCH then BLM. There are only three magic casters, so why is it that the BLM seems to be the least popular, and by a significant margin?

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I run RDM because I prefer it's archetype (spellblade) to BLM's (nukemage). Also seriously stop yourself trying to use a hw poll to gauge sb popularity; it's seen some significant changes.

RDM is also almost as unpopular as BLM if parse uploads are anything to go by.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

RDM is also almost as unpopular as BLM if parse uploads are anything to go by.

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I go by what I run into. Which tends to be RDM far more then BLM, in fact in any given group I join up in chances are there will be a RDM or SMN...but hardly ever a BLM.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

I go by what I run into. Which tends to be RDM far more then BLM, in fact in any given group I join up in chances are there will be a RDM or SMN...but hardly ever a BLM.

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This is why we don't go by anecdote.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21
In the last two weeks:
Total Black Mage uploads: 15,992
Total Red Mage uploads: 18, 889
Total Summoner uploads: 24,099

For keks and farts:
Total Machinist uploads: 11,450

EDIT Before I'm possibly strawmanned, my claim was:

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

RDM is also almost as unpopular as BLM if parse uploads are anything to go by.

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Which seems to be currently supported.

I think what Red Mage needs is the following:

Ver-adjustments:
1.) Verfire: Increase Potency to 300. Black Mana Granted ~ 22 (Double of Verthunder)
2.) Verstone: Increase Potency to 300. White Mana Granted ~ 22 (Double of Veraero)
Note: Why should these be weaker than the default ver-spells if they are proc spells, if anything they need to be stronger and we need to be able to enter melee mode much faster because that is our "umbra fire" rotation phase.

Gap Closer & Gap Extender Adjustments:
1.) Corps-to-Corps: Recast lowered to 20s. Potency lowered to 80.
2.) Displacement: Recast lowered to 15s. Potency lowered to 80.
Note: Since you are going to be building your mana's more quickly you need to be able to use these abilities faster. Also slightly reduced potencies because of this, but it's still a DPS gain because you can use it twice per minute.

AOE rotation Adjustments
1.) Enhanced Contre Sixte (New Trait) (Level 56): After executing 3 Enchanted Moulinet your Contre Sixte becomes a proc allowing you to use it once without putting the ability on cooldown, or affecting the current cooldown timer of the ability.
Note: The AOE rotation doesn't have a burst combo finisher like verholy or verflare, so I thought why not make Contre Sixte proc after using your AOE melee rotation as a finisher. It adds additional AOE damage and makes the rotation feel more complete.

Embolden Adjustments
1.) Increases BOTH magical and physical damage of all nearby party members including self by 10%. Both effects are reduced by 10% every 6s.
Note: If we are supposed to be weaker than SMN and BLM due to the support we bring, then allow us to atleast bring a more potent raid utility to the party. We also shouldn't exclude any jobs from our boost that is ridiculous, that's like saying don't bring the BLM to the party because the RDM can't boost their damage. That should never be a discussion.

It sucks that it takes like 90/90 Mana to do a good AoE rotation (Enhanced Moulinet x2, Scatter->Scatter, Manifcation, Enhanced Moulinet x3).

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

It sucks that it takes like 90/90 Mana to do a good AoE rotation (Enhanced Moulinet x2, Scatter->Scatter, Manifcation, Enhanced Moulinet x3).

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It only takes ~75/75. Use enchanted moulinet once to get 45/45, manifaction to get to 90/90, then 3 more enchanted moulinet for a total of 4. Also, just using it once at 30/30 is worth it if you are going to have excess balance before magnification is up again. Might as well use it as soon as you can rather than sit on it.

Yeah but the issue is you often don't get enough mana to do multiple enhanced moulinets until like the 2nd pull because of how little you get from scatters. RDM AoE just feels really weak compared to BLM and SMN that get strong AoE.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Yeah but the issue is you often don't get enough mana to do multiple enhanced moulinets until like the 2nd pull because of how little you get from scatters. RDM AoE just feels really weak compared to BLM and SMN that get strong AoE.

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I never feel underpowered as a RDM for AoE. I cam easily hold my own vs both a blm and smn. RDM has strong AoE too. It just doesn't have the heavy hitting feel of BLM or the "I don't feel I'm doing anything, but the mobs are melting anyway" feel of SMN. That said, the melee phase of the rdm are makes hp go down extremely fast. I did a comparison parse for myself on 3 training dummies in my yard a short while back, and while rdm had a lower output than both smn and blm, rdm was still very close to blm and only smn had significantly higher output.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

I think what Red Mage needs is the following:

Ver-adjustments:
1.) Verfire: Increase Potency to 300. Black Mana Granted ~ 22 (Double of Verthunder)
2.) Verstone: Increase Potency to 300. White Mana Granted ~ 22 (Double of Veraero)
Note: Why should these be weaker than the default ver-spells if they are proc spells, if anything they need to be stronger and we need to be able to enter melee mode much faster because that is our "umbra fire" rotation phase.

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If this change were made, RDM would have a significantly different playstyle. You're talking anywhere from 14 to 33 mana every 2 GCDs: manafication might as well cease existing here. RDM would also be significantly closer to being a melee, and ignoring your potency increases, the mana increases alone would make its dps skyrocket to stupid levels.

So, a few things would be needed regarding this: global potency loss to make up for the ridiculous increase in mana generation (which itself isn't bad, it would drag RDM far closer to being a spellblade and they would use their melee combo much more often), spells which do not increase mana that can be used as filler so as not to overcap, and more mana spenders (anything from something like "Verblizzard" to expend black mana while at range to more melee combos).

To answer why the proc spells are weaker than the longcast spells: don't compare verfire to verthunder, because you'd never be choosing between the two to cast. Verfire/Verstone need to be compared to Jolt 2 and Impact, because those are the same tier of spell. RDM is specifically set up right now so that lack of procs does not harm it too much; it only has one force proc every 35 seconds, whereas MCH, a similar job, has 5 force procs per minute. Impact has the same potency as Verfire and Verstone, and gives comparable mana generation.

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AOE rotation Adjustments
1.) Enhanced Contre Sixte (New Trait) (Level 56): After executing 3 Enchanted Moulinet your Contre Sixte becomes a proc allowing you to use it once without putting the ability on cooldown, or affecting the current cooldown timer of the ability.
Note: The AOE rotation doesn't have a burst combo finisher like verholy or verflare, so I thought why not make Contre Sixte proc after using your AOE melee rotation as a finisher. It adds additional AOE damage and makes the rotation feel more complete.

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Fair enough.

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Embolden Adjustments
1.) Increases BOTH magical and physical damage of all nearby party members including self by 10%. Both effects are reduced by 10% every 6s.
Note: If we are supposed to be weaker than SMN and BLM due to the support we bring, then allow us to atleast bring a more potent raid utility to the party. We also shouldn't exclude any jobs from our boost that is ridiculous, that's like saying don't bring the BLM to the party because the RDM can't boost their damage. That should never be a discussion.

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How long is this buff supposed to last? 20 seconds? It would only ever reduce to 7% damage up, that probably puts it in a realm above trick attack. They could do a flat 5% damage buff like hypercharge that lasts 20 seconds that could work well enough here.

Give Fleche a pierce-resist down effect.
make embolden great. just a flat dmg up to all, 20/10 for self/party.
do anything for tether. even tri-bind has 30 potency.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

This is why we don't go by anecdote.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21
In the last two weeks:
Total Black Mage uploads: 15,992
Total Red Mage uploads: 18, 889
Total Summoner uploads: 24,099

For keks and farts:
Total Machinist uploads: 11,450

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Which is why you can't go by parser. First off those who use parser are already per-dispositioned to wanting to stick to the highest numbers over a job that they enjoy. Meaning you are more likely to see parsers from people who are heavily into the meta, which in turn is smaller (as in every game) compared to the population at large. Furthermore, many don't use FFlogs at all so again the numbers will be skewed. While it IS quantifiable data, I hesitate to accept it as representational data.

A much better way to judge the popularity would be to have a simple unbiased poll of what players determine to be their main job and how happy they are with it.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Which is why you can't go by parser. First off those who use parser are already per-dispositioned to wanting to stick to the highest numbers over a job that they enjoy. Meaning you are more likely to see parsers from people who are heavily into the meta, which in turn is smaller (as in every game) compared to the population at large.

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If we can't go by recorded data, what can we go by? Also, a recording of >100,000 people is somehow less accurate than a poll of <3000 people which was a hill you were ready to die on a few pages ago?

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Meaning you are more likely to see parsers from people who are heavily into the meta, which in turn is smaller (as in every game) compared to the population at large. Furthermore, many don't use FFlogs at all so again the numbers will be skewed. While it IS quantifiable data, I hesitate to accept it as representational data.

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Those are heavy inferences, and more weasel words. Do you ever use anything but weasel words? "Many." "Most." Wanna know why they're called weasel words? They're called that because they're just vague enough that you're not technically ever wrong, so you can weasel out of your statements.

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A much better way to judge the popularity would be to have a simple unbiased poll of what players determine to be their main job and how happy they are with it.

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A poll of <3000 people. No, you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

I go by what I run into. Which tends to be RDM far more then BLM, in fact in any given group I join up in chances are there will be a RDM or SMN...but hardly ever a BLM.

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You cannot do that and expect it to be, in any way, representational. FFLogs is more representational than what you see on a day-to-day basis in-game; your experiences are anecdotes, and cannot constitute as factual.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Really? because the polls I found (even if they were back in heavenward) show that...over half did NOT like the job. Furthermore, if it was such a good job why do you not run into it as much during raids? I tend to see more SMN and RDM then BLM...even more MCH then BLM. There are only three magic casters, so why is it that the BLM seems to be the least popular, and by a significant margin?

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What type of polls were these? Were they officially sanctioned? Did they have a large pool of data? If they did not, you cannot consider them representational either. If they are the polls I’m thinking of, I would wager to say that FFLogs is far more representational than a poll with only ~3,000 responses...that is also ~3 years old.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You cannot do that and expect it to be, in any way, representational. FFLogs is more representational than what you see on a day-to-day basis in-game; your experiences are anecdotes, and cannot constitute as factual.

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Also backed up by at least 50 people from my FC.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

What type of polls were these? Were they officially sanctioned? Did they have a large pool of data? If they did not, you cannot consider them representational either. If they are the polls I’m thinking of, I would wager to say that FFLogs is far more representational than a poll with only ~3,000 responses...that is also ~3 years old.

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Ah...so what you are actually trying to do is troll and pick a fight. First off the poll doesn't exist yet, so cool your jets. Second, like I said FFlogs is not a true representation of the community as those who would use FFlogs are more concerned about numbers while they are using it. In other words you are more likely to have someone loading a log from playing with a static and using the job they play for said static vs what they prefer to play or play for fun. In my case you would more likely see an FFlog for AST even though I spend most of my time playing other jobs and enjoying being a DPS. The AST not being representative of the job I prefer.

I mean FFlogs are kind of junk for the most part anyways, with most people trying to apply them to more they ther actually apply to. This being a perfect example.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Also backed up by at least 50 people from my FC.

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Anecdote * 50 = Scientific Evidence. Got it.

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Ah...so what you are actually trying to do is troll and pick a fight.

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That's you so far, actually, not her.

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First off the poll doesn't exist yet, so cool your jets.

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So you mean you aren't referencing the poll you already linked in this post (and don't bother editing it now, you're quoted immediately afterward) when you're bringing up popularity polls?

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Second, like I said FFlogs is not a true representation of the community as those who would use FFlogs are more concerned about numbers while they are using it.

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Yes. You said it. You backed it up with nothing though.

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In other words you are more likely to have someone loading a log from playing with a static and using the job they play for said static vs what they prefer to play or play for fun.

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Source?

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In my case you would more likely see an FFlog for AST even though I spend most of my time playing other jobs and enjoying being a DPS. The AST not being representative of the job I prefer.

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So why is AST your main on this forum? Also how is having to play an AST instead of a meta DPS any less meta?

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I mean FFlogs are kind of junk for the most part anyways, with most people trying to apply them to more they ther actually apply to. This being a perfect example.

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You don't like FFLogs =/= it being junk.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Also backed up by at least 50 people from my FC.

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I’m sorry, but who are your FC? Sorry if I’m not apt to take evidence from a pool of 50 people versus a pool from FFLogs of tens of thousands, if not more.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Ah...so what you are actually trying to do is troll and pick a fight. First off the poll doesn't exist yet, so cool your jets.

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I’m sorry, what? You yourself said you saw polls from pre-HW era to back up these “facts” you’re going on about:

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Really? because the polls I found (even if they were back in heavenward) show that...over half did NOT like the job.

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You obviously didn’t read what I wrote, so please go back and read it again. Where was I talking about future polls?

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Originally Posted by Malkria

I mean FFlogs are kind of junk for the most part anyways, with most people trying to apply them to more they ther actually apply to. This being a perfect example.

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As opposed to quoting old polls from 3+ years ago that aren’t even a fraction of a percent of the playerbase as a whole? I said that a resource like FFLogs is more reliable as a representation than a poll of only 3,000 responses. I’m sorry, but learn the basics of statistics before you start a debate; especially one about popularity and representativeness.

5 out of 4 readers prefer the taste of /popcorn.*











* - sample based on the number of popcorn gifs I've seen, and doesn't include actual reader opinions or responses.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

5 out of 4 readers prefer the taste of /popcorn.*

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Nah...shows over. I mean when people start chopping up your post into line by line responses you know they are just getting desperate for attention from you. I guess that means those two 'win' the argument, but hey I like letting people feel good about themselves once in awhile. These two probably needed a win of some sort in their lives somehow.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Nah...shows over. I mean when people start chopping up your post into line by line responses you know they are just getting desperate for attention from you. I guess that means those two 'win' the argument, but hey I like letting people feel good about themselves once in awhile. These two probably needed a win of some sort in their lives somehow.

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LOL.

I’m sorry, I neither know nor care who you are, nor do I care about your attention. You can tell yourself whatever you need to in order to sleep at night, but I could not care less. I do care about people who come into arguments trying to pass off anecdotes as facts, though.

And I do thank you for my evening laugh. :)

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Originally Posted by Malkria

Nah...shows over. I mean when people start chopping up your post into line by line responses you know they are just getting desperate for attention from you. I guess that means those two 'win' the argument, but hey I like letting people feel good about themselves once in awhile. These two probably needed a win of some sort in their lives somehow.

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You have no answers for the questions posed to you, and you're hurting since the real world disagrees with your echo chamber. Sorry, that's life. You're wrong regarding your posts, your evidence is lackluster at best, and you're resorting to ad hominem. Log back in, unequip the Black Mage stone and play something you want to play instead of whining about playstyles your echo chamber doesn't like.