Should FF14 take a new route? Discussion

Side note... they nailed it with the NM music... perfect theme for clownshoes zergwipefest. I actually LOL every time the music pops on

I am ready for a new mmo with actual decent coding this time. Eureka reveals more about how limited the codes of this game is more than anything

Quote:

---

Call it lack of support from Square or call it fear of trying new things, but something just feels like it doesn't click.

---

::Stares at the numerous people complaining about the NEW Eureka content::

I can't take this thread seriously when I see the developers constantly trying things out and players hating everything because it wasn't how they imagined. I hate seeing here the demand of "hey give us something new" and "oh I hate this new thing." along with "Why do they always give us the same old content?" I would go insane if I was developer seeing all of this.

Besides the elemental wheel...what is new about Eureka? (I'm genuinely curious because it sure looks like Diadem to me, but with less Fates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyshell

::Stares at the numerous people complaining about the NEW Eureka content::

I can't take this thread seriously when I see the developers constantly trying things out and players hating everything because it wasn't how they imagined. I hate seeing here the demand of "hey give us something new" and "oh I hate this new thing." along with "Why do they always give us the same old content?" I would go insane if I was developer seeing all of this.

---

"hey give us something new and good"

I fixed that for you, being new content isn't enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airget

The mentality of letting old content die is a bad one. They need to take advantage of the "lv sync" option for content like Extreme Trials.

They should consider the idea of adding new loot to old content that helps in new content, like say unique accessory drops in Diadem that help in Eureka. New loot in old PoTD that helps in new PoTD. rare "primal armor" drop that can only be obtained if you do it level synced.

A little nugget of a reward to entice people to try the challenge and keep old content alive.

---

They kind of did this already. Old raids had increased drop rates as a sync party. People don't want to do them because "some players are bad".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyshell

::Stares at the numerous people complaining about the NEW Eureka content::

I can't take this thread seriously when I see the developers constantly trying things out and players hating everything because it wasn't how they imagined. I hate seeing here the demand of "hey give us something new" and "oh I hate this new thing." along with "Why do they always give us the same old content?" I would go insane if I was developer seeing all of this.

---

Think about it. They hype things and ask you to please look forward to something. But when you get is its the same thing you've already seen. Think of it like going to your favorite food joint. and they hype you up for a new dish, except its the same dish you've had before, with just a different sauce. I like Eureka, as a matter of fact I have been thinking of suggesting to make the diadem serve the same purpose as Eureka for the 3.0 relic weapons as an alternate route.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyshell

::Stares at the numerous people complaining about the NEW Eureka content::

I can't take this thread seriously when I see the developers constantly trying things out and players hating everything because it wasn't how they imagined. I hate seeing here the demand of "hey give us something new" and "oh I hate this new thing." along with "Why do they always give us the same old content?" I would go insane if I was developer seeing all of this.

---

Nothing is original, everything is inspired from something at some point, Eureka while I don't hate it and I don't love it either.

In this case it wasn't something people expected because they were lead to believe something entirely different, solo (can still do it to a point but not NMs) NMs were supposed to be NMs not bosses.

NM Spawns - Most monsters in FFXI spawn a fixed number of minutes after the previous copy was killed. NMs can spawn like that, but there are often other factors at work. There are various ways that NMs can spawn, and specific terms about them that are listed in the Mob Database:
Timed Spawns: Most NMs respawn within a certain number of hours.

What we got for FFXIV was straight out just boss fates with a NM tag on it.

Devs didn't even try with this, they just copy n pasted mobs, reskin of weapons/armor, copied PotD style loot system, etc etc. They had a chance to provide a lot more meaningful content, but instead they just fell back to their Diadem-like system.

Quote:

---

"hey give us something new and good"

---

That's a matter of perspective. What's good to you might not be good to someone else and vice versa and that's really at the heard of the issue. How can you please a large number of people who constantly want something "GOOD" when there's no clear answer on what that is. To say that the developers don't try is an insult to them really. They toss out a lot of stuff sometimes it hits sometime it misses.

Ho yes. XIV so successful that it needs be changed. Make it like some other f2p MMO that lasted 6 months or less.

If you hate XIV that much, why don't ask for the return of 1.0 too, as icing on the cake?

You can only wait for FFXVI or FXVII or whatever the next FF MMORPG will be. This one i doubt will change in any meaningfull way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

Besides the elemental wheel...what is new about Eureka? (I'm genuinely curious because it sure looks like Diadem to me, but with less Fates.

---

The fact you can delevel in there? THe biggest change in the game so far that doesn't exist anywhere else in the entire game? That's a pretty big deal. It shocking people forget this. And another thing is you get out of that place what you put in. There are people who have 4 sets of their relic armor and weapon. Go listen to LBR... some of them called in. I'm just saying everyone cries for a change but they aren't even looking at the change that was put in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

The fact you can delevel in there? THe biggest change in the game so far that doesn't exist anywhere else in the entire game? That's a pretty big deal. It shocking people forget this.

---

That's not a point in favor of the content. Exp loss and deleveling are products of an older MMO era that were rightfully dropped. Even older games that are still up and running like XI have eased up on that penalty. And that's what it is, a penalty. You can't claim a penalty to be something new as a retort when people are obviously talking about wanting new game play systems. Which Eureka lacks outside the shallow rock-paper-scissors elemental wheel. Beyond that tedious gimmick Eureka is nothing more than a trash mob grind fest with an occasional FATE zerg. Neither of which are new in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

exactly. perfect example is all the doom and gloom about Eureka. However, 90% of people on my data center that are playing it are FULLY enjoying it AND helping eachother along. It is clearly incomplete, but hey, room for improvement.

---

90% of your data center, eh?

[Citation Needed]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This here may be FFXIV's biggest failure. The utter lack of communication with the playerbase only creates resentment. Look no further than Eureka. Had they been more upfront with potential difficulties or outright acknowledged they intend to add more; they simply couldn't do everything all at once. I suspect people would have been far more forgiving. Why? We can hang our proverbial hats on "we're working on many of the things you're asking for." When they say nothing, people tend to assume their feedback isn't being received. Granted, XIV has a poor habit of asking for feedback only to ignore it. Ask the PvP crowd.

---

Yup. And the meme around here that it only matters if Japanese players complain. Is it true? Who knows. But when nobody's talking, perception is reality.

Quote:

---

My prediction?

• New MSQ
• New EX Primal (will be easier than Shinryu)
• Rabanastre v2.0 (Hopefully closer to Weeping City)
• Ultimate
• Updates to the Glamour Dresser (Items can be removed; plates increased by five)
• PotD v2 (in 4.35)

I fully anticipate they will hope Rabanastre and the new Primal carry people's interest alongside Eureka until PotD v2 comes around. Admittedly, despite progging Ultimate, I do sometimes wonder if it's truly worth the endeavour. So few people can or even want to prog it. I feel a second primal or raid boss would be better for the community even if I'd miss the challenge.

---

Looks right, although I'm not convinced we'll see improvments to the glamour dresser at this point when they can't even get crystal conversion in Eureka right. And hey, I love new MSQ and new Alliance raids. Problem? MSQ is really done once. Alliance raids have a lockout on loot that says to do them once a week. What am I doing the rest of the time? It sure as hell won't be Ultimate, that's aimed at maybe 1% of the playerbase and the Twitch crowd.

That's where the concern is coming from. Eureka was likely supposed to keep people occupied, so if you don't like it (and many, many people don't like it), where are you? Sigmascape normal will be obsolete at that point except for crystalloids for alts, Expert will be what we have now +1 (and thus feel stale)... I dunno. It's not looking great for engagement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Admittedly, despite progging Ultimate, I do sometimes wonder if it's truly worth the endeavour. So few people can or even want to prog it. I feel a second primal or raid boss would be better for the community even if I'd miss the challenge.

---

As someone that doesn't prog it for time restaint and all in my oipinion it is actually a good implementation as something to strive for, it was actually a bit game changing considering that before you geared yourself up in savage to do nothing for 7 months now you gear yourself so that you can tackle the new ultimate.
Personally I'd rather have it requiring a synch forever It's good for the game if some rewards requires some work to do. Think about Herald of the titan title from Ulduar where you needed to kill algalon with a certain ilvl and at lv 70 without anyone diying and at first try of the week.
I find it problematic the lack of inspiring rewards something really that tells that you have worked for it, it's not just bragging raids it also might inspire others to pursue such content.

Also let's not forget the visibility that FFXIV got with ultimate (granted they started maybe too high with bahamut, so 4.3 will be extremely pressured to reach that level but we'll see)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fhaerron

It's hard to change the foundations when the problem to change it is actually about 'change'. (I hope you understand what I mean ^^)

When you start FF XV first screen you get is 'A final fantasy for old and new'. So that in mind the FF VII remake, old players will most likely buy it again and they took the 'and new' route to attract new people that don't like the traditional wait your turn battle.
That's basically the only explanation I can think off. Or maybe they are just tired of turn based. Square Enix isn't just about Japan any more, they have holding on key locations all over the globe so there's much influence from other countries too.

And since you actually seem to be able to hold a decent discussion with unlike most other people on this forum. What do you think of a new FF MMO after this? Maybe that's a better solution then trying to untangle the spaghetti code in XIV.

Bonus note: No I don't trust you since I don't know you.
Good thing I always have a Phoenix Down in my pockets.

---

Yeah, unfortunately FFXIV was littered with problems from day 1. They wanted to earn player trust back by relaunching the game rather than abandoning it. At the same time, they wanted to try and keep the game as intact as possible so that returning players would not feel alienated. They paid for and poured time into a game; changing it too drastically could be a dangerous move, breaking the trust they were trying to restore. I could only imagine the complaints, "I paid for x and got y??" "This isn't the game I paid for." etc etc

Re-releasing a game is very difficult to do. However, although there were bumps in the road ffxiv did it with success. But because the game's remake was forced to be produced with limited resources and working off of original codes and models to save time and money it means that nothing is extremely optimal. At the time, SE as a company was not doing very well in general. Losing player trust and shutting down the game would have been a huge blow and so reforming it was the better option. But it felt as though it was more out of necessity rather than them having a true desire to make the game great. Of course, I'm sure Yoshi-P truly wanted success as this was a big role for him. But the company itself probably just wanted something mildly successful to help cover up the failure and to help restore the losses; they didn't expect it to be a huge success at all. Clearly not, by how unprepared they were when the servers launched for the first time. If you're unaware, the game had many issues - most people could hardly even log in; think housing rush but just...constant. So in their minds, I'm guessing they just wanted to show loyalty to customers and help their company image. But this is just my perspective and is entirely subjective.

At this point, I do feel like an entirely new MMO would be a good choice so that they could work from the ground up to create a better system and do it right this time. But I am doubtful that they would do this. An MMO is a continuous resource dump. Although it can keep money flowing for years, you have to put a lot of resources into it just to maintain it. Considering that they already have 2 MMO titles I can't see them releasing another one unless they discontinue one of the two. And even then, I wonder if they'd consider it worth it to embark on yet another. They have learned a lot that could be put to use but eh...

Honestly I think they just need to move the game over to a new engine, salvage what they can and go from there. To yet again reference league of legends, I honestly urge people to take a look at the history of that game. Look at the changes in character models. Look at the client's rehaul. Look at how they produced an entirely new map when the old one didn't feel up to snuff anymore. See how they improve characters, adding depth with more voiced lines and streamlining abilities so that they make sense when a kit is outdated. Read developer blogs and notes for the game; see how they are changing the entire engine to a new one.

No one says it needs to be done all at once. Baby steps.

And hey... I guess I can't blame someone for not trusting a healer named Fenix Down. ;p

Silence is a vacuum, and leaving a vacuum will compel people to fill it with speculation.

Case in point!

I've posted this elsewhere but I feel it needs repeating. The problem with Eureka isn't so much what it is as much as what it represents: a bleak future for Final Fantasy XIV.

There are four possibilities for why Eureka got developed the way it did and none of them bode well for the future of the game.

1). Awful project management
This feature purportedly took 17 months to develop, owing to the fact that it was announced in October of 2016. The fact that Eureka feels unfinished stinks to me of the dev team not having a clear vision of what they wanted to accomplish, no long-term roadmap, and spent much of the dev time either faffing about or repeatedly starting over from scratch. To me, this is the most likely option, since Stormblood in general is floundering about in most departments in a similar fashion.

2). Engine limitations
Or, the dev team had loads of great and unique ideas that would have made Eureka amazing...but the FF14 engine code is a pile of spaghetti that would shock and awe Chef Boyardee to the point of retching nausea, making it unfeasible or impractical to implement anything other than boring Hunt zerging and mob grinding in a reasonable manner. This also has the potential to spell long-term doom if their systems are incapable of accommodating anything remotely complex.

3). The dev team genuinely thinks this kind of content is fun
I question this because numerous inferential evidence lends itself to suggesting that the FFXIV devs don't play their own game, QA is probably too polite to tell them otherwise, assuming there's QA at all beyond finding bugs.

4). The dev team knows this content is dull but doesn't care
I try not to think this because of Hanlon's razor--there's no such thing as true evil, just varying levels of incompetence--but I'm not sure how to avoid thinking this when they keep making the same mistakes, over and over. There's never been a reasonable margin of people who praised Atma grinding or Hunts or Diadem Dino Island.

Heck, when they announced the Atma stage of the HW Relic, even Yoshi-P said he would skip the step if he could (which is one hell of a condemnation for your own game, man. IF YOU DON'T THINK IT'S FUN, WHY ARE YOU PUTTING IT IN THE GAME?)

What in gods name compelled them to think Eureka would be enjoyable to a majority when content that uses the same fundamentals of Eureka (i.e. spam your rotation until thing fall down) have repeatedly been met with vocal criticism?

Then again, I suppose long grinds keep subs, you know? You don't need to make something actually fun, just make content that is just barely above people's standards and keep that sub money rolling. And they can push the envelope of how low some people's standards will go.

Or any combination of the above. It really doesn't bode well.

I love Final Fantasy XIV, okay. Some part of me has to love it (in partial combination with psychologically exploitative Skinner Box mechanics like weekly tomestone caps and weekly drops, obviously) for me to have played it for 5 years since ARR launched.

But it's hard to call the game's current direction anything other than "foreboding".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

What so it doesn't count a change cause you and a few don't like it? That's not good.. if that's the case then noone should be on my case when I mention ALL you do is kill the thing.. so nothing will EVER change. I'm just saying that is STILL a change to THIS game. Same with the elemental wheel.

---

This argument is missing the point.

By the pure literal definition of the word, yes, delevelling and the magia board are technically "new" mechanics.

The argument isn't that "Eureka has no new features at all". Fundamentally, the argument is multi-tiered.

1). Yes, there is de-levelling and the Magia board, but those "new" elements are constructed around Hunt-zerging and FATE grinding, both of which have been in the game for five years.
2). There is not enough new features of sufficient depth to justify the development time spent on Eureka.
3). As a result of #1 and #2, Eureka is deemed to not be worth the potential content that could have been developed instead of Eureka (opportunity cost).

The Magia Board and de-levelling are new to FFXIV, so by a pure argument of semantics, yes the content is "new".

What people are arguing against that those "new" mechanics are built around Hunts and FATEs, both of which are dead horses whom Square Enix are beating so vigorously they're mistaking the twitching as a sign of life.

FFXIV is 4 years old with most players being at level cap, but has two major issues:

• Equipment stats are too basic. It all boils down to 2 iLv identical pieces per endgame tier and all you need to do is choose the one with the sub stats you like more.
  I'm not counting crafted gear as its rarely a viable choice.
• Endgame content boils down to just 4 Savage floors, 1 extreme primal, 1 24man raid, 4 normal raid floors.
  Raid and normal raid ilv is always too low but it serves as a gateway to endgame and provides 1 weekly upgrade items for tome gear.

Expert dungeons, older expert primals, maps, hunts, fates, leves, hests etc are in fact content but not endgame content in any way other than that some help you get tomes and upgrade tome gear.

In other words, we need more meaningful loot, and more ways to obtain it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AppleJinx

I am ready for a new mmo with actual decent coding this time. Eureka reveals more about how limited the codes of this game is more than anything

---

Every time someone drops "decent coding" or "poorly optimized" in a comment or discussion about a game, is revealing of how little they actually know about coding.

There is not some "make game suck less" tick box. There is not a "bugs=0" line.

The difference between North America and Japan/Korea is that zero-latency programming can not be done. The only way to get the M for Massive in a MMO in North America is either by having shards that serve the surrounding 500km area, and can not talk to each other, or by having worlds that can talk to each other (which appears to be exclusive to FFXIV) but trading off command latency (eg no "action RPG" elements are possible.) The entire reason we can avoid AOE's at all is because there is a long window. No single player game would ever be this forgiving.

A game with better netcode would have to be written with the intent of being a MMO, from both the client and server, and that is just not the current development model. The current development model is to retro-fit single-player game engines like Unreal, CryEngine, Unity and so forth, and make every "level" or "zone" maps as small as possible (really run any of the 2.0 dungeons unsynced, solo and notice that all of them except for the V1.0 holdovers are actually very small. The V1.0 hold overs are actually larger, but they cut off some parts to make them less of a maze.) Those engines I mentioned above all share the same issues that FFXIV doesn't have when they're used as MMO's. FFXIV actually works out pretty well considering I've never seen any crashes or GPU-related garbage that these other engines have when running for long periods of time.

A game that is "better optimized" means cutting everything in half. Textures are cut in half, model sizes go back to 2004-era sizes. Like every time Square puts out a PC game, "it needs better optimization" comes up, and some good-natured modder basically disables everything that makes the PC version superior to the PS3/PS4 version.

To be fair, not every game published by SE is done in-house, and some of these third parties (like the mobile/android/ios ports of FF6/Chrono Trigger) appear not care about the finished product, creating a "SquareEnix PC ports are buggy and sloppy" reputation that may hurt PC game sales in much the same way that we all avoid licensed titles by EA due to Electronic Art's obsession with microtransactions and general IP raiding of studios they acquire and then shut down. Some people don't care and will take any dogfood they are fed.

Which is to circle back to the topic, a new MMO will not be "better" at anything. FFXIV is already using the best available technology that is also used in FFXV. Unless you want the requirements for an Action MMO to be "move to NYC, LA or Tokyo", one is not going to happen. The current allowance for lag in internet mmo games, is also what allows cheating to be prolific because the closer the cheater is to the data center, the larger advantage they will have over players that aren't local.

I am not sure why some of the posters seem to think that my thoughts came because of Eureka. Eureka was one aspect, yes, but if you've seen previous posts by me, I'm not simply just talking about Eureka. I'm talking about the overall product. I grinding my way through ARR and HW...only to pretty much see the same thing in SB. Granted when I was going through all of that, I was more concerned with enjoying the story and making sure that I didn't fall behind - but now that I'm caught up with other players...nothing's really changed as far as open world content, dungeons, Diadem 1/2/3, and even fights go. Some features may be added here and there, however, it feels like SE is implementing things that THEY think we would enjoy, rather than actually communicating with us and polling to see what we want.

Blitzball, something that was mentioned last year, is a feature that I am highly interested in. But we've heard nothing about it. As was mentioned way earlier, the current raids feel like disjointed pieces of story, compared to the Binding Coils. A new direction does not equate changing the whole game - just try something that truly is different and not just a repackaged instance would be a nice start. If it fails, fine. But at least show that you're willing to do something that feels like you're trying to retain your current player base for the long run, instead of giving us something that will likely die off entirely by the time the next expansion rolls around.

I mean while I do understand what you're saying, but can't it be said that they did try things that were completely different? Lords of V sticks to mind as something that was different and it failed, same thing with chocogo racing. Those are two things in my mind that aren't - go kill a thing- but both failed pretty bad.. same with the card game. Sadly the thing that sells content and works is the standard that has ben here since day one. Looking at it from SE point of view.. why keep trying different systems that fail? That's a huge waste of money and time that could be spent doing things that produce known and flat out results. ala go here and kill the boss/raid/dungeon/mob etc. All I can see them doing to change that up is changing the dance which they have been doing to a point. I might be missing context but from what I've seen already i nthe game totally different content doesn't produce results no matter how bored a bit of the player base is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recruiter

FFXIV is 4 years old with most players being at level cap, but has two major issues:

• Equipment stats are too basic. It all boils down to 2 iLv identical pieces per endgame tier and all you need to do is choose the one with the sub stats you like more.
  I'm not counting crafted gear as its rarely a viable choice.
• Endgame content boils down to just 4 Savage floors, 1 extreme primal, 1 24man raid, 4 normal raid floors.
  Raid and normal raid ilv is always too low but it serves as a gateway to endgame and provides 1 weekly upgrade items for tome gear.

Expert dungeons, older expert primals, maps, hunts, fates, leves, hests etc are in fact content but not endgame content in any way other than that some help you get tomes and upgrade tome gear.

In other words, we need more meaningful loot, and more ways to obtain it.

---

I am confused whu "crafted" does not count, it is even the same ilevel as "relics" and can be overmelded.
Your post is a bit in the deep end. No where at any time Applejinx suggested they wanted something perfect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Every time someone drops "decent coding" or "poorly optimized" in a comment or discussion about a game, is revealing of how little they actually know about coding.

There is not some "make game suck less" tick box. There is not a "bugs=0" line.

The difference between North America and Japan/Korea is that zero-latency programming can not be done. The only way to get the M for Massive in a MMO in North America is either by having shards that serve the surrounding 500km area, and can not talk to each other, or by having worlds that can talk to each other (which appears to be exclusive to FFXIV) but trading off command latency (eg no "action RPG" elements are possible.) The entire reason we can avoid AOE's at all is because there is a long window. No single player game would ever be this forgiving.

A game with better netcode would have to be written with the intent of being a MMO, from both the client and server, and that is just not the current development model. The current development model is to retro-fit single-player game engines like Unreal, CryEngine, Unity and so forth, and make every "level" or "zone" maps as small as possible (really run any of the 2.0 dungeons unsynced, solo and notice that all of them except for the V1.0 holdovers are actually very small. The V1.0 hold overs are actually larger, but they cut off some parts to make them less of a maze.) Those engines I mentioned above all share the same issues that FFXIV doesn't have when they're used as MMO's. FFXIV actually works out pretty well considering I've never seen any crashes or GPU-related garbage that these other engines have when running for long periods of time.

A game that is "better optimized" means cutting everything in half. Textures are cut in half, model sizes go back to 2004-era sizes. Like every time Square puts out a PC game, "it needs better optimization" comes up, and some good-natured modder basically disables everything that makes the PC version superior to the PS3/PS4 version.

To be fair, not every game published by SE is done in-house, and some of these third parties (like the mobile/android/ios ports of FF6/Chrono Trigger) appear not care about the finished product, creating a "SquareEnix PC ports are buggy and sloppy" reputation that may hurt PC game sales in much the same way that we all avoid licensed titles by EA due to Electronic Art's obsession with microtransactions and general IP raiding of studios they acquire and then shut down. Some people don't care and will take any dogfood they are fed.

Which is to circle back to the topic, a new MMO will not be "better" at anything. FFXIV is already using the best available technology that is also used in FFXV. Unless you want the requirements for an Action MMO to be "move to NYC, LA or Tokyo", one is not going to happen. The current allowance for lag in internet mmo games, is also what allows cheating to be prolific because the closer the cheater is to the data center, the larger advantage they will have over players that aren't local.

---

FFXI, does not have these coding problems, there is less lag with response then there is with ffxiv, and ffxi is only in japan. You are not still damaging stuff in wow or ffxi that is dead, ffxiv is the frst time I seen that lets you keep damaing things for about two seconds or so after it died. There is a difference with someone asking for a game to be more playable vs someone asking for everything to be perfect. I never heard of "server tics" before till this game, and it still hurts BLM' DPS. Why should a job be weaker then it should be because of bad netcode?

This also means stop with the AAR=HW=SB
same 3- 24 man raids, same progression, sae get a good weapon though trial, same menu mazes with upgrading weapons, same 450 tomestones a week limit, same limit of 1 drop per week from the current 24 man, same limits for each time savage is current.

The only thing we got that was really different is palace of the dead, and diadem, but unlike the diadem trio, palace of the dead finds means to still be successful and used

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

I mean while I do understand what you're saying, but can't it be said that they did try things that were completely different? Lords of V sticks to mind as something that was different and it failed, same thing with chocogo racing. Those are two things in my mind that aren't - go kill a thing- but both failed pretty bad.. same with the card game. Sadly the thing that sells content and works is the standard that has ben here since day one. Looking at it from SE point of view.. why keep trying different systems that fail? That's a huge waste of money and time that could be spent doing things that produce known and flat out results. ala go here and kill the boss/raid/dungeon/mob etc. All I can see them doing to change that up is changing the dance which they have been doing to a point. I might be missing context but from what I've seen already i nthe game totally different content doesn't produce results no matter how bored a bit of the player base is.

---

I have an issue with "kill a thing = people think it is the same" you keep stating. it is false and no one thinks that. It is the overall feel and what you do overall to finish something. In such light Eureka = diadem, fate trains, all it is. Chocobo racing and lords simply did not capture interest and racing has insane inconsistent input delays.

For other concepts, it is something I explained to you already, as for why in specific, I gave you a quote by yoshi -p that I will restate here:

Quote:

---

Yoshida: It is the second expansion pack, and if we were to do the same thing all over again, a lot of people would get tired of it.

---

Even he is self aware in knowing people will get tired of it. If we keep going on the route of reskining content, some point in the future it is gonna snap and have a massive exodus. Everyone has a breaking point and yoshi-p knows the general mass of the player population is getting close to that point.

I say that cause people keep saying " I want something different" But breaking it all down it's still killing stuff. 90% of what you're doing is doing the same rotation on whatever bos you're fighting. That never changes. Thats why I bring it up.. I mean it's the same as you saying Euerka - Diadem really. Just cause they both have fates. Well if thats true then my statement is also true.. cause in both of those all you're doing is killing stuff. I bring it up cause Lords of V and racing are things that went away from that - kill a thing- and both have failed. So it's why I keep asking will changing the goal do anything really? The few times it has been changed that content for whatever purposes has failed. The only content that really grows and gives results is the standard. Yes we have crafting but thats like the only thing I can think of that doesn't fail next to battle content. I mean it's fine to want something different but what SE is posed to do when the only content to produce results is battle content?

I really hate the 1000 word limit so much. so so very much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

I say that cause people keep saying " I want something different" But breaking it all down it's still killing stuff. 90% of what you're doing is doing the same rotation on whatever bos you're fighting. That never changes. Thats why I bring it up.. I mean it's the same as you saying Euerka - Diadem really. Just cause they both have fates. Well if thats true then my statement is also true.. cause in both of those all you're doing is killing stuff. I bring it up cause Lords of V and racing are things that went away from that - kill a thing- and both have failed. So it's why I keep asking will changing the goal do anything really? The few times it has been changed that content for whatever purposes has failed. The only content that really grows and gives results is the standard. Yes we have crafting but thats like the only thing I can think of that doesn't fail next to battle content. I mean it's fine to want something different but what SE is posed to do when the only content to produce results is battle content?

I really hate the 1000 word limit so much. so so very much.

---

*puts hands on her face*
Ill say this one more time, as this is the 3rd or 4th attempt in total trying to explain this to you. It is not based on the idea "killing stuff 90% of the time" People are not saying they want something different just because "they are killing 90% of the time" This is not the reason why diadem got so much backlash.

What people are talking about is the general big picture of things and HOW you kill that something. FFXI for example had little issue with "releasing new things" the complaint that popped up more often then not is x is too hard, getting access to sea esp. There was tons of things to do in FFXI and to my knowledge no one complained it was getting monotonous of doing things over and over again (like the complaint for diadem 3.0) because it was presented differently. Abyssea, sky, sea, HNM, VNM, ENM, nyzul isle, Assault, Limbus, Dynamis, KSNM , BCNM, einherjar, and more that I may be missing, each of these required different approaches and very few got board going one to the other. The biggest problem in FFXI (if somehow the list I gave didn't make it obvious) was what to do. You couldn't do everything. Then to top it off there was 3 different quest lines for 3 different types of relics (and these relics, all 3 types where way stronger and way more of a grind then ffxiv's ones are, but they last, for example, my relic was 3 years and it stayed relevant for 6 more years till I quit and to this day I could return and continue to upgrade it to make it current once again, about 11 years after making it)

In everything I listed, there was no 2 close enough where it would be like diadem and Eureka here (matching concepts together like the fate train basically like what Diadem 2.0 and 3.0 share.) what you did in each of those was different enough where they did not overlap like Diadem 1-3 has done. This is what people are talking about, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH MOB KILLING = SAME. Then even WITHIN its own activity, Dynamis esp when low man, each city has significant different approaches. (before it became solo thing and changed)

That is the difference, FFXIV has nothing lasting so you have to continuously keep making new content, then to top things off, FFXIV keeps repeating the same cycles. I can say it is HW or ARR all over again (outside palace of the dead existing) same 450 cap every week, same costs, same gear gaps between those limited tomes and savage raids, etc. as i said even yoshi P is aware of the repeated nature and even remarked on it. Also consider how long something lasts and how long it takes something to be "outdated" in ffxiv, it is only a few months (read carefully on how long I said my relic remained current and had lasting value) A lot of people are starting to turn around "why bother with this, just get outdated next patch" if they happen not to like something. This holds true with these diadem 3.0 relics, why bother when the place is so under performing? SE will nerf/ adjust it and people will do it then because they always do and they have to, because of he speed things do out of date.

Are you understanding what is being said now?

One thing they must fix is the broken healing system. I looked at a few parses at my friends who are farming O8S and the WHM's top heals were Regen and Medica 2, that's it, the rest was DPS activity. The SCH wasn't much different with EOS topping the charts followed by Adalo and the rest was DPS as well. What kind of healing system is this now? Back in ARR, healing used to be... well... healing but now, its medica 2, regen, and DPS.
I've taken a break from XIV for now and I then went back to some of my other favorite games and tried to heal... Oh Em Gee... You have to heal, you have to heal hard or people die, heck people die anyhow, healing is intense and there is a lot of it. Tanks wanting to tank in DPS stance? ROFL... dream on, your tissue paper without your tank stance... or your going to kill the healer or both!

Easiest way to bring me back, bring back ARR difficulty level of healing and ditch this Medica 2 + regen stuff.... I want to heal, not DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I am confused whu "crafted" does not count, it is even the same ilevel as "relics" and can be overmelded.
Your post is a bit in the deep end. No where at any time Applejinx suggested they wanted something perfect.

---

Crafted gear so far (and now the new relic) is has been 20 ilvs lower than raid gear. that's 20~30 main stats less. I can't think of a scenario where its better than just getting raid gear unless we're talking 1st week of the patch cycle. So I didn't count it.

At the end of the day mixing and matching between 2 sets and 2 weapons is incredibly boring. We need no less than 4 sets and several set-less pieces and weapons to add into builds per raid tier. If Relic armor is viable we now have 3 sets. If SE can muster the courage to have MMO-like stats on gear we'd be in a good place.

Actually I don't understand what you're saying now honestly. I don't know what you're asking them to do? Are you saying you want them to stop giving us more powerful gear and just keep one set of gear? Wouldn't that be boring as then your gear doesn't change for 6 years? I'd get bored of that real fast. I want more gear, I want to keep growing more powerful with each set. I don't want to have to hold on to 4 different sets for one or two bosses. But ok.. the other point is if it's the way you're doing it.. and changing the dance isn't enough. What do you want them to do then? Cause with the system we have there's only so much they can change to the combat so it feels different. I bring up rotations cause that wil be the easiest way to actually change how it feels on a basic level but they aren't going to do that. As that's a silly idea. So what can they do? Sides stopping all up hill gearing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

Actually I don't understand what you're saying now honestly. I don't know what you're asking them to do? Are you saying you want them to stop giving us more powerful gear and just keep one set of gear? Wouldn't that be boring as then your gear doesn't change for 6 years? I'd get bored of that real fast. I want more gear, I want to keep growing more powerful with each set. I don't want to have to hold on to 4 different sets for one or two bosses. But ok.. the other point is if it's the way you're doing it.. and changing the dance isn't enough. What do you want them to do then? Cause with the system we have there's only so much they can change to the combat so it feels different. I bring up rotations cause that wil be the easiest way to actually change how it feels on a basic level but they aren't going to do that. As that's a silly idea. So what can they do? Sides stopping all up hill gearing?

---

I am not asking them to do anything in that last post, I been trying to explain to you why people are complaining. I told you over and over and over and over "it's still killing stuff. 90%" is a bad compaersion, it is NOT why people are complaining about. For some reason, I do not know why you keep sounding like people hate this diadem 3.0 Because it is "it's still killing stuff. 90%" and thus no different then anything else.

This is not the reason why people are complaining. People are complaining because you are standing there hitting one button for 2 hrs + (even Japanese players n the OF complained about this from what I understand though translate) Or you are simply following the fate train. We did this in diadem, it was part of the reason diadem died so quickly.

For what I wanted them to do, and what I was expecting was posted here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I was expecting new and innovate like they said, even more so when they said it needed to be delayed

With the comments made with leveling your gear being different (something along those lines, something like gear will progress with you) I thought it would be a new way of upgrading gear though battle (something like palace of the dead but done differently) with fully customize sub stats like 2.0 and 3.0 relics, like this:

Quote:

---

Quote Originally Posted by Krotoan View Post
All I expected was an entirely different way to level up my armor. Perhaps killing monsters of a certain element charged aspects that fueled different stats. Kill fire monsters for ATK and so forth. I'd have different goals as I went but it sounded like we were going to have more power over the customization of what we were wearing.
It was hard to think that they were going to give us anything other than a revolutionary system with how tight lipped and mysterious they were about it. Sure some people got a little overhyped, but that's kind of understandable. What I don't think anyone expected was for them to outright make it so... hostile.
FFXIV has always been forgiving since 2.0 at least. You learn by trial and error, you talk to people. Now? Better have a res with you or hope someone is nice enough to res your white magic user, or 25% down the toilet, possible delevel.

I expected more involvement in the build, not more time investment than ever before.

---

I feared it would just be diadem 3.0 though since SE shown in the past to have poor wording at times.
What I did not expect:

Quote:

---

Quote Originally Posted by Solarra View Post
What I didn't expect:
Nothing to do besides grind and ride the Fate-Train.
FtP-type time-waste mechanics like the pitiful XP from mob kills and the hefty death penalty.
The horrible culling issues.
Mounts and Aetherytes as rewards for levelling.
Not only is it frustrating not being able to attune below level 9 but high level players not needing to pass through areas where the lowbies are levelling might make getting rezzed difficult in the future. I'd have preferred everyone to have mounts and Aetheryte access or no one (the island isn't that big). Note: This wouldn't be an issue if there was any reason to explore.

Since we are basically spamming our rotations without a break while we are in there, I would have hoped (I admit I didn't expect) for some change to our abilities to make it less punishing on the hands.
People who played XI talk about having time to socialise and chat while fighting; I think I would have enjoyed this content more if we had a combat system that allowed that.

---

I also did not expect level gap to be an issue, both from ffxiv and ffxi and what is in them to prevent that. This place is so pre-alpha even after all those delays i can't wrap my head around this happened. This is a joke right? I want to be put in the real world please.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recruiter

Crafted gear so far (and now the new relic) is has been 20 ilvs lower than raid gear. that's 20~30 main stats less. I can't think of a scenario where its better than just getting raid gear unless we're talking 1st week of the patch cycle. So I didn't count it.

At the end of the day mixing and matching between 2 sets and 2 weapons is incredibly boring. We need no less than 4 sets and several set-less pieces and weapons to add into builds per raid tier. If Relic armor is viable we now have 3 sets. If SE can muster the courage to have MMO-like stats on gear we'd be in a good place.

---

cant get i370 on day 1 and i seen time before tanks preferring right penta melds, but it depends on the stats ofc. btw considering relic is i350 as well it should "count" as it is way less effort for the same thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ko_

snip

---

I thought I had responded earlier, but looks like I closed my browser before I posted. Let me try again. I shouldn't have mentioned Blitzball in that last post because it takes away from my point. Side activities are one thing, yes, but my concern is centered on main content. One can't really say they've tried something different in the content everybody has to go through with the MSQ. The revamping of most job was nice, I'll admit (I did try a few that I hated in 3.5 that I love now). Nothing about the dance has changed at all. In fact, it's to the point where dancing requires hardly any effort.

I dont think that FF14 will be gone soon but I fear that it may never live up to its great potential.

My problems:

SE tries to invent the wheel again and makes things far too complicated:
People wanted something similiar to Pokemon, yet they decided to introduce LoV in that overly complicated way.

People wanted to be able to give their chocobos different colors. Instead of simply using the way we can color our clothes they invent a whole system where you first need a house or apartment to use it and fruits from gardening. On top of that its RNG too. Why does something simply like that need such a complicated annoying system?

People wanted a way to store their glamour so that they could get it all. Instead of an limitless glamour catalogue we got a dresser with a 200 item limit, that destroys our stuff and that need plates (which are way too less) which can only be changed at certain places and dont work that easily too.

TT was overly complicated with all its limits and its still a huge RNG factor when you want to get every card. Instead of having a nice game that you can play for a bit you have another minigames that needs far too much time if you want them all..Great for those that have nothing else to do, bad for those that still need lots of other stuff.

SE should put more money into research and the opinion of the playerbase instead of marketing:

Less traveling all around the world for someone that already has to do three jobs..where should those new ideas come from, if the person in charge has to go around the world constantly? If you still want to do that use an PR team or give us a new face that will do that but give Yoshida a bit of a break. Someone that is stressed out that much might just simply have not the time to come up with something new and simple.

More communication with the rest of the playbase. Nobody truly knows if they still mostly listen to their japanese fanbase but its already bad that people get the feeling that their opinion is worth less because they are from NA or EU. Especially since we have more players in those two than in the japanese playerbase. Have a translator with you in these liveletter because those still feel like JP only shows. Also if you ask us for our question then please take the ones with the most likes even if they are not comfortable. Otherwise you can just stop with these liveletters..

Give people a way to tell them their opinion other than the forum. If someone cancel their sub give them the chance to write their reasons down. If you release a new patch with new content, give us ingame surveys which will ask the players how they liked it and what they would have made different. Sent all of those directly to SE JP and have them be translated there by professional translators so that stuff wont be missing..This way you will truly get the view of the whole playerbase. If you fear that people wont take their time to answer that give us Crysta or stuff like that as a thank you if you participate and answer each question. This way people might finally feel like their opinion is worth something.

Communication is the key! How can it be that there is such a huge silence for a lot of problems and only a very late apology (if there is any)? Dont change stuff up without telling us about it..its really leaving a bad taste in my mouth when you just changed the merchandise stuff from account wide to single character only without any warnings before that and without any true reasons..the same with the price increase for some countries. Something like that can really damage the reputatin of your company. If you are worldwide you cant just stick with the culture of your own country..you have to understand how the other cultures function and step over your shadow.

If you are planning for something that the community wanted for a longer time, why not give us a bit of the basics ideas behind it and see how we will take it? As soon as I played stuff like LoV or Diadem 1+2 (+3..) I kinda wondered how they believed that this would be something great. It starts to feel like they are out of touch. Maybe if you have posted what you have planned with LoV people could have still given their opinion about this before you released it..maybe we would have a better LoV now that a lot of people still play out of fun and not something that was nearly death on arrival.

Sometimes I really get the feeling that we are playing a game that is completely just the vision of one person..but thats not how it should be..Yes the developers should have a vision and things like story are onto them but an MMO can only be successful and a money maker if you have the playerbase on your side. So you should create things that most of them will like and not something that you just like..

Go and get a team of people that only goes around and plays other MMOs and give them the time to try them out, to research what is great and how people like it and then take ideas from such systems. Make them so that they can function within FF14 and that they are also not needlessly complicated or something people did not want. Make something that does not need constant changes because that means just less time and budget for other stuff.

This game could be so great but right now its just alright. It will never be able to get better than WoW if they are fine with medicore content.

I dont want them to change the whole game up, but I am also getting tired of the „serverlimitation“ as a reason why we wont get stuff. Change that otherwise we will never truly see it rise above its own position. It will be a fine and nice MMO but nothing great.

FFXIV needs to look at WoW. That isn't me saying it needs to be WoW, though.

For better or for worse, WoW shakes things up with each new expansion. It isn't afraid to try new things. Despite limitations, it has also added a bunch of new playable races in the form of 'Allied Races'. Now, I'm not saying that FFXIV needs to embrace the same route but increased character customisation has been requested for years now and all we seem to get is new hairstyles with each patch. Worse yet, many of these hairstyles are clearly designed to be feminine/androgynous so those of us who play male characters with a masculine aesthetic miss out.

This site could do with a revamp, too. I'm hoping that with Yoshi-P's promotion we'll see more funding and staff thrown FFXIV's way. It's sorely needed.

Wow gives the impression of shaking things up but at the end of the day it's still the same game, not to mention they have the orrible tendency of creating stuffs for an expansion and removing them the next for arbitrary reasons.

They really had the occasion of shaking things up with the artifact and they decided to make it bland and then toss it away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyperia

One thing they must fix is the broken healing system. I looked at a few parses at my friends who are farming O8S and the WHM's top heals were Regen and Medica 2, that's it, the rest was DPS activity. The SCH wasn't much different with EOS topping the charts followed by Adalo and the rest was DPS as well. What kind of healing system is this now? Back in ARR, healing used to be... well... healing but now, its medica 2, regen, and DPS.
I've taken a break from XIV for now and I then went back to some of my other favorite games and tried to heal... Oh Em Gee... You have to heal, you have to heal hard or people die, heck people die anyhow, healing is intense and there is a lot of it. Tanks wanting to tank in DPS stance? ROFL... dream on, your tissue paper without your tank stance... or your going to kill the healer or both!

Easiest way to bring me back, bring back ARR difficulty level of healing and ditch this Medica 2 + regen stuff.... I want to heal, not DPS.

---

Liked it, then unliked it so I could like it again. There's been discussions about it before in the healer forum too, but healing is far too powerful relative to health pools. Give me more stuff to actually heal so I'm not a DPS with the most boring rotation ever and occasionally also some healing spells.

It's the same on the tank end in terms of holding aggro and mitigating damage, hence why those get played as blue DPS. I don't know how they'd even add another healing job right now with how little healing is actually being done in most of the game's content. SE's never really acknowledged this as an issue. I mean, it seems like they barely think about healers at all, given stuff like lilies have remained irrelevant and unmodified since coming out. Cynically, I suppose that's good, since if they start tinkering with WHM they might break it, but still.

A job gauge and it's mechanic that you could delete entirely and have absolutely no impact on how the job plays is a sign of a problem. I'd love to hear from the devs on if healers being played as DPS with occasional healing is what they intend, and if not, what they plan to do about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

The biggest problem in FFXI (if somehow the list I gave didn't make it obvious) was what to do. You couldn't do everything. Then to top it off there was 3 different quest lines for 3 different types of relics (and these relics, all 3 types where way stronger and way more of a grind then ffxiv's ones are, but they last, for example, my relic was 3 years and it stayed relevant for 6 more years till I quit and to this day I could return and continue to upgrade it to make it current once again, about 11 years after making it)

---

I'll just point out that XI's relic weapon == Mabinogi's spirit weapon. Unlike the latter however, XI lets you keep upgrading it, where as Mabinogi, because of microtransactions, basically you have to pay real money to repair it, thus the spirit weapon pretty much doesn't get used, or is completely ignored by people not willing to fork out money to use it.

(Oh and please SquareEnix, don't take any ideas about putting Relic weapons in the cash shop.)

It would be preferable had SE simply let you "transform" or "glamour" the relic weapon, and gear into new gear, thus not wasting all this work, and then having a new major version patch come along, and all that timesinking is destroyed. This is why I've pretty much didn't use the relic gear. You clearly don't need it, level sync/ilevel sync ensures that there relic gear is useless no matter how OP it is unless you're playing the hardest content only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

. There is a difference with someone asking for a game to be more playable vs someone asking for everything to be perfect. I never heard of "server tics" before till this game, and it still hurts BLM' DPS. Why should a job be weaker then it should be because of bad netcode?

---

As I said, "server tics" is the only way you ensure people can't cheat the game by having as faster connection. It doesn't help people on really poor international locations (eg Australia) , where when you see these players play the game, it looks like they are gliding and randomly freezing. If I have a connection with 10ms ping to my server, and you have 100ms. If the tic a server tic is 50ms, that means I can do 5 actions in the same time you can do 1, and this is remarkably unfair in an action game. But in "turn based" mmo's, this is not unreasonable. Damaging things after it's dead is a side-effect of "tied" in a server tic, and as far as I know a "tic" in XIV and XI is 3 seconds for combat stuff. Short of everyone having a direct fiber connection to the server, it's a no-win scenario for anything better. Which means any time you see people complaining about "optimize better", ask them what MMO they work on.

(and for the record, I've seen how the sausage is made for one MMO, we think there's some grand data center and people working around the clock on fixing things, when it's really more like one bank of servers and one guy that has to be called in on his day off when emergency maintenance is required.)

As much as we give shit for them to adding a cash shop and some promotion I would like to remind that Wow cash shop exist too and for some items is more expensive and let's not forget the TCG promotion (which btw is no longer printed so expect paying a hefty amount on ebay if you fancy those cosmetics)

edit: not implying that is correct either way just saying the fact

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

edit: not implying that is correct either way just saying the fact

---

Either way it is stupid. Sub MMORPG = no cash shop.
There is many difference between both (WoW got high cost mount, but the FF cash shop is much more expensive if you buy everything... being really younger.

WoW does it = bad
FF doest it = bad. The matter here is we speak about final fantasy XIV, and about a lack of fun in the game...

Aello did show the core matter of the devs for this game. but with so much income (sub + vendor sub + cash shop) we could hope really better. Dont care if any game doest worst.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerlana

Either way it is stupid. Sub MMORPG = no cash shop.
There is many difference between both (WoW got high cost mount, but the FF cash shop is much more expensive if you buy everything... being really younger.

WoW does it = bad
FF doest it = bad. The matter here is we speak about final fantasy XIV, and about a lack of fun in the game...

Aello did show the core matter of the devs for this game. but with so much income (sub + vendor sub + cash shop) we could hope really better. Dont care if any game doest worst.

---

It's bad either way but you don't have mounts costing 1.5k EU on ebay atm, many items in wow are as I said are locked behind trading cards that are no longer printed and let's not forget that we have a part of our community asking for more and more items in the cash shop especially those that were created for the chinese version of the game, which somewhat baffles me

Frankly it annoys me that both game got a cash shop because a part of the costumers eventually asked them and I know some ppl I used to play would instantly buy those items no matter what.
It's sad if you ask me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

As much as we give shit for them to adding a cash shop and some promotion I would like to remind that Wow cash shop exist too and for some items is more expensive and let's not forget the TCG promotion (which btw is no longer printed so expect paying a hefty amount on ebay if you fancy those cosmetics)

edit: not implying that is correct either way just saying the fact

---

WoW ist still a much older game with a much smaller cash shop. And lets not forget that you can get the cash shop currency ingame so you could get everything in the WoW cash shop by just playing the game. So FF14 is younger, but has a big amount of more stuff in there (and its getting more and more) with a big price tag which you cant buy ingame. There is imo quite a difference between those two.

I would complain quite less about the cash shop if we would be able to exchange Crysta with Gil or buy tokens from other players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

It's bad either way but you don't have mounts costing 1.5k EU on ebay atm, many items in wow are as I said are locked behind trading cards that are no longer printed and let's not forget that we have a part of our community asking for more and more items in the cash shop especially those that were created for the chinese version of the game, which somewhat baffles me

Frankly it annoys me that both game got a cash shop because a part of the costumers eventually asked them and I know some ppl I used to play would instantly buy those items no matter what.
It's sad if you ask me

---

It can go the same way since FF14 now likes to sell emotes with statues so who knows how much they will cost on ebay in the future. SE also has items from merchandise that you cant get anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

WoW ist still a much older game with a much smaller cash shop. And lets not forget that you can get the cash shop currency ingame so you could get everything in the WoW cash shop by just playing the game. So FF14 is younger, but has a big amount of more stuff in there (and its getting more and more) with a big price tag which you cant buy ingame. There is imo quite a difference between those two.

I would complain quite less about the cash shop if we would be able to exchange Crysta with Gil or buy tokens from other players.

---

Most of the items in FFXIV cash shop were old event items which if you have been subbed constantly they are nothing to you.

What are you talking about the tokens in-game for the wow cashshop? There was never such a thing when I played this they really changed it to be a mobile game or what? And frankly since mop start their focus on the cash shop just skyrocket so no if anything ACTIVISION-BLIZZARD has become the greediest scumbag company after EA.

And my point of the TCG was about the emotes with statues, only that you don't spend money for the emote you spend them for the statuette not like WOW Trading cards that are completely useless if not for the loot code.
You can say I'm defending FFXIV here, maybe frankly I don't respect activision-blizzard and their scummy way especially because they could drop tons of dung on ppl and ppl will still buy it.

Just like ppl praises bethesda games while they simply release w/e and then let ppl complete it and they've been doing it for years but still nobody cares. I can garanteed that if WB, EA, Konami where to do this ppl will bitch to no end, but since it's everyone favorite nobody cares, so yeah on this topic I don't like ppl beign partial

Shame on SE, shame on Activision-Blizzard, shame on everyone doing it