This is why this game should'nt get a parse

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Originally Posted by Kakiko

Then, I'm in the minority. I get that you want parties that can clear and where everyone pulls their weight. I just take issue with the generalization that because someone doesn't have FFLogs means that person is looking for a carry. It's not true 100% of the time. I don't know, I guess it's just different expectations from the game. To me, it sounds extremely elitist that someone has to have a third party item as "proof" or they "deserve" a blacklist.

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I'll bluntly state, I typically check everyone's logs who join a farm party I've involved with for no other reason than to gauge my expectations. The less experience, the less likely I'll stay beyond a handful of attempts because I just don't believe enough players have the skill to clear. When I plan to farm something like Shinryu EX, I'm looking for fast and efficient runs, not multiple wipes to silly mistakes. Why? Because unless I get lucky, I'll be doing this for a minimum of 99 times. Now exceptions can be made. If the group has a good atmosphere and makes the attempts humorous, I may stick around longer even if it's less productive. I don't simply look at FFlogs, see a bunch of green and grey and immediately think you're trash. I just like knowing what I'm getting into, especially if I'm on tank or healer. A weaker co-tank means I may have to adjust my playstyle. Likewise, on healer, I am very aggressive and like having a general idea of what my co-healer can handle. If they have grey parses, I'm going to be far more DPS oriented to make up for their lack of damage. On the other hand, if their HPS is equally low, or they tend to DPS only, I know to put myself in the "healer" role.

Basically, FFlogs gives me a buffer instead of adjusting while completely blind. If you hide your logs, sorry, but I will assume you have something to hide. That may not be the case, however many people I've come across do so to hide poor performance.

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Originally Posted by Kakiko

it's still there in the log with no explanation of why my numbers were terrible or why maybe my rotation was shoddy.

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Like Hoodrat mentioned, FFlogs provides that context if you know how to use it properly. I can deduce exactly how you died, what killed you and why. Right up to if it was someone else's mistake that snowballed.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

If you cant argue without reaching for the extremes, I'm gonna end this discussion right here

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Doing something so standar and so easy isn't extreme or world top player gameplay. If you want to be a top player you need to orginize your cooldowns together, uptime strats for melees, knowing 100% in and out how a fight works and use cooldowns like it seems like you never was outside tank stance. These are just examples, we are asking for people to actually do a normal rotation and manage to know how their class works. Hell keeping aggro these days is too much to ask for? I actually got KICKED from a dungeon taking aggro from a tank, just because I did a propper rotation on a boss and took aggro from him. How sad is that.

This is exactly WHY this game needs a parser (officially supported one).

There's no (officially supported) one right now and you have this shit, nothing will change when one will be added as the bad is already happening now.

Make use of your blacklist, you have it for something.

I shouldn't be penalized because you don't know how to use blacklist or other people like to leech in raids, A parser is a great measurement tool and will help me great way in order to keep improving myself.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

This is exactly WHY this game needs a parser (officially supported one).

There's no (officially supported) one right now and you have this shit, nothing will change when one will be added as the bad is already happening now.

Make use of your blacklist, you have it for something.

I shouldn't be penalized because you don't know how to use blacklist or other people like to leech in raids, A parser is a great measurement tool and will help me great way in order to keep improving myself.

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This is SE we're talking about. Their solution to toxic players in PvP was to remove the chat function. They're more likely to remove DPS checks and have us run around like the second boss in Bardam's Mettle than introduce a parser.

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Originally Posted by Rikuide

This is SE we're talking about. Their solution to toxic players in PvP was to remove the chat function. They're more likely to remove DPS checks and have us run around like the second boss in Bardam's Mettle than introduce a parser.

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To be fair, that boss brought in some mechanics that players, even jump potion users, should know by now and they still fail it. We can discuss parses and whatnot all we want, but there are still players who think that getting a stack marker means run away with a full party alive.

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Originally Posted by Rikuide

This is SE we're talking about. Their solution to toxic players in PvP was to remove the chat function. They're more likely to remove DPS checks and have us run around like the second boss in Bardam's Mettle than introduce a parser.

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This is the playerbase we're talking about here. Some of them couldn't even do Bardam's second boss. That was fun to solo...

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

To be fair, that boss brought in some mechanics that players, even jump potion users, should know by now and they still fail it. We can discuss parses and whatnot all we want, but there are still players who think that getting a stack marker means run away with a full party alive.

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To which I say, why wasn't this in a new Hall of the Novice? I've noticed an increasing trend with SB dungeons. They keep adding gimmicks to one of the bosses, which get tedious very quickly, especially if you play jobs with a resource you have to maintain and said gimmick messes it up.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

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Not much of point to reveal them either if you have uploaded nothing in there. :p

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

This is the playerbase we're talking about here. Some of them couldn't even do Bardam's second boss. That was fun to solo...

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I mean its not like it matters, you just keep dodging and thats that?

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

If a tank dies to a tank buster because they didn't use a CD, they can be booted for it. No violation of any rules. If a DPS does too little damage and you use a parser to determine that (since its the only way to do so), and boot them for doing too little. Despite that being just as important and vital as a tank using a CD, its considered 'harassment'.

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There's a serious double standard on this stuff. Tank and healer poor play is very, very visible and very, very obvious. DPS are okay with that.

Parsers make DPS poor play very, very obvious. DPS think that's massively unfair, elitist, and toxic.

DPS then wonder why they have 20 minute queues waiting for tanks and healers.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Not much of point to reveal them either if you have uploaded nothing in there. :p

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Well, if you have no uploads, then why go through the trouble of hiding nothing? I don’t really understand what you’re getting at, to be honest. Maybe because I’m tired.

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Originally Posted by MatthiasS

Trust me, the way that tank acted is reportable. I got a warning for less.

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So you are saying that kicking players for poor performance is reportable, meanwhile, there are players that SE are aware of using a Ruin 4 hack or speedhacks that are still not banned.

Says it all.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Well, if you have no uploads, then why go through the trouble of hiding nothing? I don’t really understand what you’re getting at, to be honest. Maybe because I’m tired.

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There was few, but those weren't uploaded by me.

Mostly just some 24-man uploads, Rabanastre and older raids since I haven't PF'd savage.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

There was few, but those weren't uploaded by me.

Mostly just some 24-man uploads, Rabanastre and older raids since I haven't PF'd savage.

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To be fair, people generally don’t care about the 24-man parses, or even Extremes really. A lot of people just look at current Savage parses when they’re looking at people for things like statics or analyzing performance. That being said, a good person will analyze them thoroughly, and not just look at your median average or your worst parses and say, “Well, that person is garbage.”

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

There was few, but those weren't uploaded by me.

Mostly just some 24-man uploads, Rabanastre and older raids since I haven't PF'd savage.

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Why are you concerned if that's all you have there?

Do you feel that potential grey logs there will reflect badly on how people perceive you if/when you progress towards Savage?

If that is the case, have you considered taking along a friend to upload if needed and simply knuckling down and ensuring that you have some decent runs there? Getting high percentile runs there is surprisingly easy IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Why are you concerned if that's all you have there?

Do you feel that potential grey logs there will reflect badly on how people perceive you if/when you progress towards Savage?

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Eh - only did Savage since friends asked to, got no interest in doing it with PF -groups.

So having it any possible data in FFLogs hidden won't harm you in any way. :p

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Eh - only did Savage since friends asked to, got no interest in doing it with PF -groups.

So having it any possible data in FFLogs hidden won't harm you in any way. :p

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Eh, but at the same time, people will just assume you have something to hide when you hide them. It doesn’t give them an opportunity to judge the logs in an unbiased manner if they choose to properly analyze them.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Eh - only did Savage since friends asked to, got no interest in doing it with PF -groups.

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And I repeat my question, why are you concerned if that's all you have there?

This isn't me 'having a go' or such, I'm pretty much perma AFK these days so makes no odds to me personally, it's just an interesting topic.

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Originally Posted by Kakiko

Yes, maybe some people without logs hope for a carry. Maybe some people without a clear are hoping for a carry. But that doesn't include everyone and it just rubbed me the wrong way.

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You know.... I couldnt agree more with this.

Much like how not everyone who parses is a toxic kid who will rage at you over your numbers, not everyone who hides their logs are doing it just because there's something to hide or because they "want a carry"

I've seen the argument pop up plenty where people want to be able to judge their own performance, and their performance alone via parsing software and guess what, I'm not denying anyone that ability by hiding my logs. What I am doing is denying them the ability to make a erroneous assumption about my ability to play, just because of one bad log that got uploaded without my concent, or a good one that didnt get uploaded.

Regardless, I have no interest in the endgame level content, where most people agree that a parse is necessary. So if anyone resent me because you dont have "proof" that I'm playing at the level you want, go ahead. I'll let my actions do the talking instead of just raw data without context.

*Drops mic, leaves thread, since I already got bopped once for stepping on someone's nerve*

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

You know.... I couldnt agree more with this.

Much like how not everyone who parses is a toxic kid who will rage at you over your numbers, not everyone who hides their logs are doing it just because there's something to hide or because they "want a carry"

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This (the bolded statement) is in direct contradiction with what you said earlier:

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

Think of it this way. How many toxic assholes are not being toxic just because they're afraid someone will report them for parsing?

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

I've seen the argument pop up plenty where people want to be able to judge their own performance, and their performance alone via parsing software and guess what, I'm not denying anyone that ability by hiding my logs. What I am doing is denying you the ability to make a erroneous assumption about my ability to play, just because of one bad log that got uploaded without my concent, or a good one that didnt get uploaded.

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And, I say again, hiding your logs removes the ability for people too look into those greys and see why they’re grey in the first place. Bad comp? Lots of deaths? Poor healers? Poor tanks? Poor rotation? They can’t see any of that because you hid them, so they’re going to just assume you have something to hide.

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Regardless, I have no interest in the endgame level content, where most people agree that a parse is necessary. So if you resent me because you dont have "proof" that I'm not playing at the level you want, go ahead. I'll let my actions do the talking instead of just raw data without context.

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Then...why are you in parser discussions anyways? Parsing doesn’t matter in dungeons or 24-mans, only Extremes and Savage content. Which you don’t do. So if there was an in-game parser that functioned in Extremes/Savages/Ultimate, why would you care because you aren’t doing that content?

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

Regardless, I have no interest in the endgame level content

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You didn't need to say anything else.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

You didn't need to say anything else.

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Now the mic has been dropped. :p

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

I've seen the argument pop up plenty where people want to be able to judge their own performance, and their performance alone via parsing software and guess what, I'm not denying anyone that ability by hiding my logs. What I am doing is denying them the ability to make a erroneous assumption about my ability to play, just because of one bad log that got uploaded without my consent

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Yes. You are right. You aren't stopping people from figuring out individual performance by blocking your own information. But when you decide to make a statement like...

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

Think of it this way. How many toxic assholes are not being toxic just because they're afraid someone will report them for parsing?

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then you're probably trying to tell me people try to nitpick your logs if you keep them open. Let me help a tad here with a real life example. Lets say you went into a hotel, okay? and the guy at the hotel sees you have a purse, and requests to check it. No ill intent, but to make sure you aren't carrying something bad. You begin to throw a hissy fit, going, "No it's not yours you don't have my consent!" then it gets fishy. That MAKES the guy think you're hiding something, even if you aren't, and then can just boot you out. If you just opened the purse for 5 seconds, and he saw nothing bad, you'd get in.

That's what people check the logs for. They want to make sure that those joining a party marked for farming have players that know what they are doing and, if there's odd lowballs, why they are there. A parser can tell the leader that the fight you did terrible dps on also had terribly healers, and tanks losing threat. For example, if a MCH in O2S died to Evilsphere, a TANK BUSTER that instantly give of a reason why your dps might be low, because you're pulling theat off of terrible tanks. Hiding your logs also hides your good clears, which hides your ability to play well.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

This (the bolded statement) is in direct contradiction with what you said earlier

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I would kindly ask that you point to where I said, or even implied that everyone who parses is "toxic". I offered a hypothetical that the current cases of people harassing others because of their damage numbers would and could increase. And that's it.

I never once said everyone who parses would be taking that attitude

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Then...why are you in parser discussions anyways? Parsing doesn’t matter in dungeons or 24-mans, only Extremes and Savage content. Which you don’t do. So if there was an in-game parser that functioned in Extremes/Savages/Ultimate, why would you care because you aren’t doing that content?

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We're gonna have to respectfully disagree about the 24-mans being endgame in any sense of the word. To me, it's late game, not end game. the difference being you are still expected to be able to clear without the group being 100% on top of their game and thusly having modest room for error.

That's the type of content I stay in because that's the type of content I enjoy. I dont like grinding against the Savage tiered difficulty, and so I dont bother with it. But since the current software already quite clearly extends outside of the "necessary" areas like Extreme and Savage, you'll have to forgive me for not thinking that it's where the discussion would end even if Square somehow would agree and add in a officially supported tool for that level of content.



No longer gonna be reading this thread from here on. So no responses will be given

Some People don't know that warrior tanks in DPS staces able to stay in position let them push out higher numbers then a DPS running out of random AOE.
There have been times my wife the FC only Warrior Main Job, has push numbers hire then DPS because of 3 reasons. One Able to take a hit without moving out of POS so more DMG being done in the fight, Not dieing, Just being out geared over other DPS in the FC. She can play WHM/BRD/WAR. but only War is max Ilevel. Our FC lets people for the most part play the job they like not the one they are best geared at.

There are 2 people in our FC that have been posting our fights to FFLOGS. which I personally don't care for I play for fun.. If I can't beat content today. next patch I can try again,

If you play BRD all the time and you finally get DRG geared to enter content knowning the rest of group is going to pull there weight. Sure play DRG because maybe your sick of always playing BRD.
In this case the DRG DPS is going to lack that of the BRD, but the person gets to have fun.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

I don't wanna play the devil's advocate but... It's the run that juuuuust got uploaded? The tanks did more DPS than all the actual DPS but the NIN. o-O

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The truth has a way of rearing its head... I too found the log.

Unfortunately -- this is probably about as much as can be said before risking warnings/suspensions/actions on accounts.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

Some People don't know that warrior tanks in DPS staces able to stay in position let them push out higher numbers then a DPS running out of random AOE.

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Pld does comparable dps to war with less effort. Drk is a bit behind pld but can still outdps actual dps just the same as pld and war.

I too hate it when people can tell what a garbage player i am that is dragging the entire group down and who is a huge burden to other players.
I would also hate letting people know their own performance so they can improve on it, because i just can't be assed to improve as a player myself.



Squeenix should have added official support to parsers a long time ago, it's a must at this point.

I'm so proud that this thread didn't turn into the pity party for the OP i predicted all the way back on page 1. Maybe there is some hope that people might be able to take some pride in their numbers and not be made to feel like assholes.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

I'm so proud that this thread didn't turn into the pity party for the OP i predicted all the way back on page 1. Maybe there is some hope that people might be able to take some pride in their numbers and not be made to feel like assholes.

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Most don't feel pity because first of all there was nothing mentioned about DPS/parser from that tank. He also spoke very bold which the OP misunderstood as well. Then he clearly wants to put blame on others rather than himself. Those times he never had a single death isn't excactly so much better than the ones he had with death and that is himself only to blame. I wont pity someone who tries to put guilt on others for their own mistakes. And I think most good players are done with peoples attitude towards them. I'm tired of being called elitist when I try to help someone, I'm tired of being called no lifer when I try to help someone improve, I'm tired of being called asshole for trying to help someone. Yeah I'm also very tired of be in groups with people who clearly only think about themselves.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

Some People don't know that warrior tanks in DPS staces able to stay in position let them push out higher numbers then a DPS running out of random AOE

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The fight in question is O2S where everything except the safe spot for Maniacal Probe is scripted. There are no random AOE for DPS to dodge, it's easy to pre-position yourself in this fight.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

To which I say, why wasn't this in a new Hall of the Novice? I've noticed an increasing trend with SB dungeons. They keep adding gimmicks to one of the bosses, which get tedious very quickly, especially if you play jobs with a resource you have to maintain and said gimmick messes it up.

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my guess is because HoN isn't meant to be something maintained. you're meant to be introduced to and grow accustomed to more "advanced" mechanics organically instead of in a formal training ground. also HoN is some easily missed junk on the side of the road in a zone people don't really linger in. people barely remember it exists. the novice network has a bigger footprint.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

And I repeat my question, why are you concerned if that's all you have there?

This isn't me 'having a go' or such, I'm pretty much perma AFK these days so makes no odds to me personally, it's just an interesting topic.

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in I can inject myself into this:

Privacy. that's the biggest reason. being "public" is not a default status I have turned on. I do not upload my logs, as far as I can tell. I do not present padded parses, or poor parses. I do not present any. and I don't want you having access to my performance stats without my consent. someone else consenting to release data on me to a public database is something I dislike thoroughly. it isn't about hiding anything, as I don't hide that my dpsing background is limited, I haven't run savage this tier, and I usually pull 2800-4000. I don't mind telling you these things on my own. I just don't want my privacy to wither for the sake of your convenience.
I have no problem with you witnessing my performance while in the run and keeping a local copy of in on your PC, though. you were there to witness the run and the tool itself is useful for sussing out problems on the fly

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Originally Posted by spagthetapdancer

in I can inject myself into this:

Privacy. that's the biggest reason. being "public" is not a default status I have turned on. I do not upload my logs, as far as I can tell. I do not present padded parses, or poor parses. I do not present any. and I don't want you having access to my performance stats without my consent. someone else consenting to release data on me to a public database is something I dislike thoroughly. it isn't about hiding anything, as I don't hide that my dpsing background is limited, I haven't run savage this tier, and I usually pull 2800-4000. I don't mind telling you these things on my own. I just don't want my privacy to wither for the sake of your convenience.
I have no problem with you witnessing my performance while in the run and keeping a local copy of in on your PC, though. you were there to witness the run and the tool itself is useful for sussing out problems on the fly

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Does this apply to people uploading screenshots of you ingame? What about a video of a fight where you are involved in? Or if you join a group with a streamer?

Privacy concerns are all well and good for certain things, but this isn't one of them. None of your real life information is included. If you want to opt out, verify your character on the website and change the settings. Rather than demanding no-one else can view statistics on a website.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Does this apply to people uploading screenshots of you ingame? What about a video of a fight where you are involved in? Or if you join a group with a streamer?

Privacy concerns are all well and good for certain things, but this isn't one of them. None of your real life information is included. If you want to opt out, verify your character on the website and change the settings. Rather than demanding no-one else can view statistics on a website.

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Those should all be done with the consent of those involved, or names need to be hidden.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Does this apply to people uploading screenshots of you ingame? What about a video of a fight where you are involved in? Or if you join a group with a streamer?
Privacy concerns are all well and good for certain things, but this isn't one of them. None of your real life information is included. If you want to opt out, verify your character on the website and change the settings. Rather than demanding no-one else can view statistics on a website.

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good question, and the sort that is best addressed per example.
Screenshots of me in-game: I don't mind this because the only information being portrayed is my appearance. unless someone goes through the absurd amount of work necessary to assemble a stop-go animation style slide show, it does not pose a risk to my privacy to have my mere appearance given. I am willing to allow anyone that happens to be in my vicinity to screenshot me without my notice.
Video of a fight I'm involved in: hmm....this is a toughie. I'd really prefer they didn't unless I was told about it.
Stream Runs: I join groups with streamers in other games all the time, volunteering to do so. I surf dark souls 3 streams for streamers to co-op with. I consider such a thing consentual as long as everyone knows ahead of time. Hell, to stream regularly is something I'd like to do someday myself.

Also, can I really log into FFLogs and set it so that data on me is excluded from their listings? if so, good on them and that'd ease my concerns a good deal.

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Originally Posted by spagthetapdancer

Also, can I really log into FFLogs and set it so that data on me is excluded from their listings? if so, good on them and that'd ease my concerns a good deal.

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They have a system where you can claim you character and you can set your logs to hidden, though I am strongly of the opinion it should be default hidden have to be set to visible.

https://www.fflogs.com/help/hidingcharacters/

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

They have a system where you can claim you character and you can set your logs to hidden,

https://www.fflogs.com/help/hidingcharacters/

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excellent. I prefer opt in to opt out but I guess this will have to do ^_^.

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Originally Posted by spagthetapdancer

in I can inject myself into this:

Privacy. that's the biggest reason.

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That's a fair response aye <3

I guess at the end of the day, it's very much a personal choice, some won't be comfortable with even their character's 'data' being in the public domain whilst others (I fall into this camp I guess!) scratch their heads wondering what all the fuss is about. ;)

I feel I should participate in this thread (I'm the Warrior, btw) as this thread was brought to my attention by my FC.
Where did I kick you for doing poor DPS? We even killed it once, even though your performance is questionable at best, and nobody kicked you. I got 3 static friends that wanted to join for some late night fun. I have never kicked a person for low performance, if anyone deserved a kick in that group its the Paladin who killed all the DPS.

I haven't read any rules that forbid me to play with my friends, if I offended you then its not my intent. With that said however....

If you feel to bring up the DPS being the reason you got kicked, perhaps that is something you should improve on, rather than sit at your throughput level and point fingers how others are rude, mean and derogatory towards you on the internet. I personally prefer the option to find a guide on someone good, and learn from their knowledge they freely share with the community.