Monk ignored for 4.1

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

If people say, well, play another DPS job, that's fine, but if people have to stop playing a job they used to enjoy to play something else, which they might not enjoy as much, then that clearly shows that there is a problem with Monk.

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I think Square knew this was going to be the end result. I mean just watch the Stormblood trailer. Warrior of Light monk sees his new skills and the mess that the expansion made of his job, and switches to Samurai before he even gets off the boat in Kugane because he doesn't have to get new gear.

But joking aside, you're right. I mained monk in Heavensward after falling in love with the job leveling it up to get Mantra (I had previously been maining ninja) but with this expansion, I feel like I've had to shelf a job I loved because playing it is such a mess.

Bumped. I browsed the JP monk forums and they are basically echoing this forum. Stances are too short, GL3 too short compared to botd. PB is too long for what it is. Brotherhood is rng and buff should affect monk, recast on TFC is annoying when you do get good rng. TK sees minimal use. Too many GL maintenance skills (form shift, TK if you will lose it, RoE). Tackle mastery sucks and sees no real use. Deep meditation is useful but still dislike the rng and Slowdown from RoF is against Monk's identity. Hopefully devs will listen to the jp forums

I don't think they're listening to any monk atm. It seems like all resources are going into Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

I don't think they're listening to any monk atm. It seems like all resources are going into Eureka.

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I'm sure they're hearing our complaints, they're just dismissing them the same way they dismissed Bards' complaints about Wanderer's in Heavensward.

i havent seen MNK in such a long time now. both in raid and leveling
:(

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

i havent seen MNK in such a long time now. both in raid and leveling
:(

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Suprisingly I see a lot of them leveling in POTD on my server, but none in raids. Recently I did a few Rabanastre runs in a row and was the only monk there and to be fair... I'm not surprised. When I returned to the game couple weeks back I found all the hardcore and devoted monks I knew playing different classes.

The thing I hate the most about monk at the moment is the whole chakra/stance mechanic. Somehow it wasn't as annoying back in Heavensward as it is now. Every time tanks pull without the countdown (and 90% of them does) I'm just flipping out. Being loyal Monk from the beginning I'm seriously considering switching to SAM.

I pretty much abandoned Monk the moment 4.05 rolled around. I still kept my Monk geared hoping that 4.1 would do something for it, but it didn't materialize in any meaningful way. Now, my Monk gear is just sitting there and I've leveled most other combat classes to 70 in an attempt to find another class to play. Samurai is a pretty good close second.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

I'm sure they're hearing our complaints, they're just dismissing them the same way they dismissed Bards' complaints about Wanderer's in Heavensward.

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At least the original Wanderer's got a .01 patch. You know, back when it was only usable for your first three shots of a fight, and had a 3-second cast time...

But none of our issues are actually fatal enough to make us non-viable, insofar as any particular ability on which we'd be dependent (we could take RoE, FoW, FoE, OIP, etc., off our hotbars and lose virtually nothing) or as a whole.

We're the soldier who just keeps marching, even though our guts are scrambled or missing. Sure, some of that zombie-ness is visible to outsiders, but our performance is still close enough that we can be brushed off indefinitely.

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Originally Posted by Rebellius555

The thing I hate the most about monk at the moment is the whole chakra/stance mechanic. Somehow it wasn't as annoying back in Heavensward as it is now. Every time tanks pull without the countdown (and 90% of them does) I'm just flipping out. Being loyal Monk from the beginning I'm seriously considering switching to SAM.

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Reason it's more annoying is because in HW, Chakra was just a down time mechanic that we used for a bit of extra burst when we were able to get back into the thick of things. Now, it's a crutch for our DPS, making up about 15-20% of it and locked behind multiple layers of RNG, coupled with a strict group party composition to help ease some of the RNG involved but never truly eliminating it either.

It's annoying.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Warrior of Light monk sees his new skills and the mess that the expansion made of his job, and switches to Samurai before he even gets off the boat in Kugane because he doesn't have to get new gear.

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I joked about the expansion rickrolling Monks when they revealed the "true" trailer and Yoshida busted out with that SAM outfit. I knew right then and there Monk was an afterthought.

It's a shame though, Monk complaints just aren't being taken seriously because their numbers are fine and it's viable. It's a damn shame when one of your favorite jobs is ruined and the devs don't give the slightest damn about the situation.

I would go to another DPS in this case, but I just don't like any of the others. I don't want to be a support DPS like DRG and NIN. SAM is too slow for me, I don't like casters, and ranged physical isn't my thing. I like being up close and personal and having an active rotation.

Sigh,guess I'll stick with healing for now... Until SE fixes nothing again for 5.0.

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Originally Posted by Rebellius555

Suprisingly I see a lot of them leveling in POTD on my server, but none in raids. Recently I did a few Rabanastre runs in a row and was the only monk there and to be fair... I'm not surprised. When I returned to the game couple weeks back I found all the hardcore and devoted monks I knew playing different classes.

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So true. I still play MNK as my main DD and go in Rabanastre to equip it, but more than often I'm the only MNK in the entire Raid.
I guess many MNK players just swapped to SAM.
Heck, even Drak from NEST changed to SAM!

Well i'm prayin to the gamin gods, that they'll give monks the hook up sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I joked about the expansion rickrolling Monks when they revealed the "true" trailer and Yoshida busted out with that SAM outfit. I knew right then and there Monk was an afterthought.

It's a shame though, Monk complaints just aren't being taken seriously because their numbers are fine and it's viable. It's a damn shame when one of your favorite jobs is ruined and the devs don't give the slightest damn about the situation.

I would go to another DPS in this case, but I just don't like any of the others. I don't want to be a support DPS like DRG and NIN. SAM is too slow for me, I don't like casters, and ranged physical isn't my thing. I like being up close and personal and having an active rotation.

Sigh,guess I'll stick with healing for now... Until SE fixes nothing again for 5.0.

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NIN barely qualifies as "support" theyre busted AF atm and the closest thing to MNK

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

i havent seen MNK in such a long time now. both in raid and leveling
:(

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Most of 4.1's content really puts the issues with Monk's kit under the microscope. Skalla's second boss forces you to lose your stacks repeatedly with the mechanic where you become a Spriggan and Perfect Balance is never up for when you're back. The third boss of Rabanastre's darkness ability similarly, forces you to lose your stacks if the raid is too slow. If the Alliance is fast, you can stand in his AOEs to save your GL3...but also get a vuln stack and then lose your GL3 again in the next 30 seconds because Riddle of Earth will be on cooldown. Shinryu EX does the exact same thing with his charges in phase 1, and his final phase again demonstrates how stupid the fuckoff long cooldown of Perfect Balance is with the add phase>running across his tail>final phase thing. Either you start slow on adds and have Perfect Balance for Shinryu proper, or you use Perfect Balance during the add phase and don't have it for final phase Shinryu. It would have been greeeat to use a skill that would let us maintain our stacks while running across his tail, but we can't because Riddle of Earth is pointlessly situational.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

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Lets not even talk about ultimate bahamut. GL3s timer really shows off how bad it is. Especially bahamut phase. Every time I play Monk I feel like im supposed to be playing the best dps in the game due to how stupidly strict all the timers and GL3 maintanence skills are along with chakra spam. Then you realise your dps is at the whim of the party comp. Its just very unfun to play due to rng, slowdown, button spam in downtime and strict timers.

HW mnk was fine because extra forbidden chakras defined how many chakras you could squeeze out during downtime no matter how small. We could easily just get rid of deep meditation rng and make a currently pointless cd useful;

-Make steel peak similar to mug from nin and have it grant us our resource (5 chakras) every 60s lower peak potency down to 100.

-Reduce PB CD 80s

-Make TK an aoe CD based off chakra.

-Revert all potencies back to HW values including forbidden chakra.

-Fist stances deleted. FoF now passive.

-RoW is now double auto attacks for the next 3 auto attacks. 120s CD

-RoE is now an aoe 8% mitigation on the group. 120s CD

- New CD 'flash lightning' instant GL refresh. 60s CD.

-RoF: reworked and replaces Brotherbood and is now an aoe 5% buff to everyone for 10s no extra chakras due to steal peak changes.

-Silence removed off AotD. Potency increased to 100.

-Elixir Cannon: shoots a beam of aether in a straight line 10yalms. Shares a CD with Elixir field. (Maybe button bloat but ive often wondered why we cant shoot it forwards?)

- One ilm punch: renamed to Six ilm punch. Creates an aoe shockwave in a straight line Potency at 110. (Rockbreaker can stay 130) at least monk would have a meaningful aoe rotation without awkwardness.

Just a few things i'd change. Values can be tweaked for balancing. But the main point is to;

1. Line up raid buffs better with other raid buffs.

2. Delete RNG via steel peak every building stacks to 5 every 60s (which atm is what deep med gives us if rng is kind) no longer need the slowdown from firing so many forbidden chakras. Id rather have less, consistent forbidden chakras at high potency than low, frequent ones at random. Leading to point 3.

3. Keeping the core of monk mechanics as speed and hard hitting. While having only form shift and flash lightning compliment the GL3 maintenance.

So many good ideas. With that other topic about MNK needing another enmity reducing skill, what if Fist of Wind would become our disengage skill or heck, make that Steel Peak for all I care about that one, it could work just like DRG halving enmity and maybe adding like 5 seconds or so to our GL or better yet, Steel Peak disengage and FoW ranged atk with GL refreshing for a few seconds, Fist of Fire should be much like on NIN, just a simple passive trait, and Mantra could be renamed to Fist of Earth, a healing buff with maybe a weak damage reduction or shielding to nearby players and it would go well with WHM earth lore wise. and there you go, yet another idea that I can't believe the staff couldn't come up with.

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Originally Posted by KanameYuuki

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The devs had so many ideas to work with going into SB though, people were thinking up new abilities back in HW too to counter Monk's lack of raid synergy, I'm sure Tornado kick being on the chakra system back then was mentioned a few times too for aoe uses because, like now it's not used much. (although used more often back then due to no RoE especially in A11). Changes to PB were constant however, it became evident that when you outgeared A11s back then but couldn't skip Lapis due to skipping everything else that PB lengthy CD posed a lot of problems for monk, PB came back at the worst times possible. If you pushed any phase in that fight you were more than likely to never have PB up for phase transitions. At min ilvl prog it didn't matter because you could only skip the 1st GA-100. But after that, oh boy did Monk suck hard to retain stacks. A12 inceptions NEEDED the monk to end on a GL refresh otherwise you would lose it. Monk needed a lot of perfect scenarios to do the dps it lived up to. But it was all for naught because party synergy wasn't there. It's the same story now except even worse imo, because we aren't even at the top yet our playstyle still feels like we are. It really sucks as a 4 year monk main to suffer the same issues I did in HW because the devs couldn't come up with a decent moveset or be lazy and implement some of the better ideas for Monk. Such as Chakra on every GL3 refresh. Nope they stuck it behind rng instead.

My post above is where i'd like to see the job headed, which would put us more inline with other comps that revolve around 60/120s synergy line ups. Our utility is the worst right now because of that, and because BH is an indirect buff to the monk, we can't hold it optimally for synergy because it HAS to line up with our RoF so it becomes suboptimal w/e you do, bleh. Monk is in a complete mess from a design standpoint. Nothing lines up with other party members, we have 2 form of RNG for chakra gains. Which honestly could be solved by a CD to gain 5 chakras, maybe every 2 minutes (if the potency was rebuffed to HW levels) and have have a trait that just gives us a guaranteed chakra every boothshine crit. This would work out that every minute you'd gain 1 FC through good play, and 2 at the 2 minute mark. On top of the ridiculous RNG we got the most convoluted crap with RoF because they really wanted us to fixate on the RNG aspect of BH chakras. Which as i mentioned could disappear if given a consistent way of gaining chakra (CD or guaranteed bootshines), then there'd be no need for this ridiculous slowdown because we wouldn't be at the whim of RnG TFC popping up. It's like they took 1 step forward and 2 steps back with this job going into expansion. Everything has a god damn consequence attached to it, like Riddle of Earth. Great in theory, but why such a ridiculous way to achieve it? Not only that, it forces me out of my best dps stance. Then we get possibly one of the worst traits in the expansion; Tackle. Mastery. such a master of all 3 tackles i only need one. Go home SE you're drunk. And brotherhood was just lackluster. like i said, no synergy with anything else and casters don't even benefit. takes 3 mins before it lines up again with anything. and the extra added rng element just makes it infuriating when it doesn't go your way, but equally infuriating when it does because you now have a 5s recast on TFC.

I'm sorry if people get tired of my complaining. But i'm not going to stop until action is taken about this job that's lost it's identity and fun factor. Are we crap DPS? not by any means. But why work 100% harder than every other melee job to see no benefit whatsoever and be screwed because the devs can't be bothered to give us a PB cd reduction or design fights that Monk can be equal to drg and ninja in terms of resource and buff management.

Something that really bothers me is how feasible is for SE to rework the class at this point?

SB launch was the one true and perfect time to change it, and It took them a whole expansion to change back that horrible decision that was casting on BRD and MCH, the other classes got their play style expanded and even if there were performance issues like with SMN those have been fixed changing potencies or minor tweaks, but with MNK it does seem a complete overhaul is necessary. The best part is how the trailer made it seem as if MNK was going to be the star of the expansion but every time I watch it now, much like everyone else, all I can see is that message of "Lol Monks better become a Samurai".

Hoping for the best for MNK and DRK.

WAR got some massive changed in 2.X (can't remember exactly, but it was early on) and it made the job go from trash to really good. Now, the main reason they went to this length was because WAR just couldn't survive in content, so it was needed (people were taking 2 PLD as it was more effective).

However, because MNK DPS is fine (which it is) and it isn't hindering anyone from clearing content, the DEVs probably don't see it as an issue, at least not in the same way as the massive WAR changes, which is a problem.

The other side is, other Jobs got QoL changes which made them play slightly differently, but it sorted out some issues and made the jobs more enjoyable, which is exactly what we, as monk users, want. Just some changes to abilities to make the job fun to play again and not the mess of contradictions we have now.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

The other side is, other Jobs got QoL changes which made them play slightly differently, but it sorted out some issues and made the jobs more enjoyable, which is exactly what we, as monk users, want. Just some changes to abilities to make the job fun to play again and not the mess of contradictions we have now.

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On the other hand, other jobs are getting changes based on the most minor of complaints. Bard had the duration of Straight Shot increased and Barrages cooldown reduced in 4.06, Warrior had it's gauge penalty removed for swapping stances and had Shake it Off reworked into a pretty solid barrier, Summoner and Machinist have both received pretty substantial reworks, and of those jobs the only one who actually had changes because their performance was bad was Machinist. Monk's performing okay, sure, but the complaints we have are long standing and I think something like Tackle Mastery and Brotherhood's composition problems are as deserving of getting addressed as Shake it Off, or any other Quality of Life to make Monk play better.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

WAR got some massive changed in 2.X (can't remember exactly, but it was early on) and it made the job go from trash to really good.

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Warrior got changed because it was absolutely broken and is a TANK. One of only 2 tanks at that time.

Monk is one of 8 dps classes. Not saying that as an excuse for the developers, but there it is.

When they were introducing the classes in the Live Letter before Stormblood, Yoshi literally said, "ok monk. Monk... uh.... monk hasn't changed much".

It's like they knew from the beginning Tackle Mastery was a waste of everyone's time but needed to throw something in to make it look like the class hadn't been forgotten completely.

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

needed to throw something in

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So many of the Stormblood changes, in a nutshell.

Hi guys, I wanted to post a new thread on this question, but I think may be better to just reply on this one.

I'm playing monk lately, and sometimes I found my Chakra gauge filled up automatically after executing weaponskill. I've been trying to look for the Chakra collection mechanism apart from Meditate.

Is this some kind of hidden mechanic? Because it happens randomly.
And to not have Chakra gauge filled during fight makes the Forbidden Chakra skill useless.

Did you have brotherhood up? Weapon skills from party members have a chance at charging chakra while under the effect of brotherhood.

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Originally Posted by Vineas

Hi guys, I wanted to post a new thread on this question, but I think may be better to just reply on this one.

I'm playing monk lately, and sometimes I found my Chakra gauge filled up automatically after executing weaponskill. I've been trying to look for the Chakra collection mechanism apart from Meditate.

Is this some kind of hidden mechanic? Because it happens randomly.
And to not have Chakra gauge filled during fight makes the Forbidden Chakra skill useless.

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Its the Deep Meditation trait: Doing a crit with a weapon skill has a 50% chance of adding a chakra.

Nope, I haven't unlock brotherhood (which is hard to use as far as I remember).. I guess it is the deep meditation trait..
Does putting savage aim materia help to boost crit output?

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

When they were introducing the classes in the Live Letter before Stormblood, Yoshi literally said, "ok monk. Monk... uh.... monk hasn't changed much".

It's like they knew from the beginning Tackle Mastery was a waste of everyone's time but needed to throw something in to make it look like the class hadn't been forgotten completely.

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Every interview he's had where the question of Tackle Mastery has come up has either had him evade the question or basically admit that it has no reason to exist.

Today in sad monk stories:

In Ultimate, my SCH crit adlo'd me and I took zero damage on the intermission to Nael. Which meant Riddle didn't go off and I lost my stacks.

All hail Monk glorious design.

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

Today in sad monk stories:

In Ultimate, my SCH crit adlo'd me and I took zero damage on the intermission to Nael. Which meant Riddle didn't go off and I lost my stacks.

All hail Monk glorious design.

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Oh my god ...

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

Today in sad monk stories:

In Ultimate, my SCH crit adlo'd me and I took zero damage on the intermission to Nael. Which meant Riddle didn't go off and I lost my stacks.

All hail Monk glorious design.

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Game punishing Monks for having a good healer. Like seriously, aside from DPS, what is actually done RIGHT about Monk in its current state??? I want to switch to nin since they do monk's job better and because I highly doubt 4.2 will fix everything, but I need the raw dps(on sam...) gear to carry bad parties.

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

Today in sad monk stories:

In Ultimate, my SCH crit adlo'd me and I took zero damage on the intermission to Nael. Which meant Riddle didn't go off and I lost my stacks.

All hail Monk glorious design.

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I've had that happen to me on more than one occasion.

The number of problems that comes from Monk being unable to proc a refresh on its own in the way Dragoon and Black Mage can is baffling. If the Mitigation is too good, you lose your stacks, if there's a down phase with no damage you lose your stacks, if you're too far into your combo and GL3 will fall off before the hit you lose your stacks, if the boss is untargetable and you're suppose to dodge an AOE you're probably going to pick up a vulnerability stack. And that doesn't even get into the fact that it has a longer cooldown than Blood of the Dragon or Enochian which makes it possible for rapid fire down phases likely to not have any tools for keeping stacks.