Is there any reason to play BLM over RDM now days?

BLM doesn't need more mobility, you need to learn what the encounter has to offer and adjust to it, considering BLM can bring somewhat similar dps to SAM I'd say the possibility to bring BLM are there, YOU don't need to focus on only 1 type of power DPS, especially since later savage fights have as much anti-melee mechanics than anti-BLM ones

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

BLM doesn't need more mobility, you need to learn what the encounter has to offer and adjust to it, considering BLM can bring somewhat similar dps to SAM I'd say the possibility to bring BLM are there, YOU don't need to focus on only 1 type of power DPS, especially since later savage fights have as much anti-melee mechanics than anti-BLM ones

---

There is also the fact that no other class gear scalling is even close to BLM's, actually I would not be surprised to see some nerfs here and there for BLM when 4.1 or 4.1.5 hits.

embolden should buff all, not just physical, but nerf it's cd

Given perfection in a vacuum, I'd suspect BLM would pull higher numbers. But currently, not only can RDM easily compete while being easier and more forgiving, they can pull groups out of huge trouble with few repercussions; unless they die, MP isn't much of an issue.

I see parallels to the AST buffs in late 3.0: AST did everything a WHM could and even more. Sure, WHM was perfectly viable but it was effectively replaced for a bit. RDM has stepped into a similar role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

Given perfection in a vacuum, I'd suspect BLM would pull higher numbers. But currently, not only can RDM easily compete while being easier and more forgiving, they can pull groups out of huge trouble with few repercussions; unless they die, MP isn't much of an issue.

I see parallels to the AST buffs in late 3.0: AST did everything a WHM could and even more. Sure, WHM was perfectly viable but it was effectively replaced for a bit. RDM has stepped into a similar role.

---

It's very simple. On progression before everyone has a 100% understanding of the fight, RDM > BLM. For repeat kills when everyone knows their shit. BLM > RDM.

Blm has to be precise and rdm gets to faceroll content for same numbers and extra goodies. I played healer as rdm in full dps comp for potd and was able to do it fine.

Smn and blm can't play healer or tank, same problem we had with 3.x warrior they could self Heal, tank and do insane dps with cleaves. This mmo has the trinity system use it.

Main reason I play a BLM over RDM is I find BLM more fun and satisfying. Nice change of pace from playing a DRG which has some positionals to something that just throws out spells.

I think that the argument that BLMs are bad on progression should be dropped tbh, everyone in prog needs to learn the fight, as of now with the possibility of keeping up enochian forever we aren't that punished unless we ourselves fail completely.
As for the managing our our CDs and movements CDS, well that is something that everyone does to min max the dmg on a fight as such I don't see that much of a difference, what does make a difference is a static knowing the strength of a BLM and not beign oblivious to some facts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

snip

---

This isn't the reason at all why BLM is suboptimal in progression.
Angered had a pretty good podcast thing about it. It's how RDM lets you recover from mistakes (rez)/lets you get good practice off rocky starts in pulls/is very easy to adapt to a fight and play at a reasonable level/is overall very consistent.

Of course, unlike Angered, most people will have nice guides for the mechanics they/pioneer groups have figured out, so this is all lessened, but even then BLM lacks a lot of the insurance RDM brings.
Not saying you can't progress with BLM, just pointing out that the primary reason to favour one over the other isn't what you mentioned.
And it does take more knowledge/precision in a fight for BLM to perform well (thus, more time in progression, comparatively speaking).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Genoreaper

Blm has to be precise and rdm gets to faceroll content for same numbers and extra goodies. I played healer as rdm in full dps comp for potd and was able to do it fine.

Smn and blm can't play healer or tank, same problem we had with 3.x warrior they could self Heal, tank and do insane dps with cleaves. This mmo has the trinity system use it.

---

That RDM have the same damage as BLM is not really true btw. The current savage stats put RMD about 5-7% below BLM and about 5th or 6th in the DPS rankings compared to BLM's 2nd depending on what percentile you look at.

As for the PotD comment, the game is simply not balance around content that easy. You can do PotD without any healer at all if your team is good enough. Once you get to propper endgame content, RDM healing isn't even really that relevant most of the time. Their ability to revive multiple times without significantly hurting their DPS is far more useful.

Also, for the record, Summoners can heal and revive, albeit far less efficiently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

This isn't the reason at all why BLM is suboptimal in progression.
Angered had a pretty good podcast thing about it. It's how RDM lets you recover from mistakes (rez)/lets you get good practice off rocky starts in pulls/is very easy to adapt to a fight and play at a reasonable level/is overall very consistent.

Of course, unlike Angered, most people will have nice guides for the mechanics they/pioneer groups have figured out, so this is all lessened, but even then BLM lacks a lot of the insurance RDM brings.
Not saying you can't progress with BLM, just pointing out that the primary reason to favour one over the other isn't what you mentioned.
And it does take more knowledge/precision in a fight for BLM to perform well (thus, more time in progression, comparatively speaking).

---

That is a valid argument although i don't really agree with it (I will agree that on deep dungeons extra raises are very good)while I think that recvoery from a bad start might, with verrasie can be useful it could bite you later in a fight(or it'll come to the point where they'll change again how resses works), my point however was to deflate most of ppl that say that BLM is so overly crushed by mechanics when learning a fight.

What about the dungeons though? Big pulls aoe BLM is winning there :P So for a casual who just do dungeons runs and 80% of the time AoE, BLM is better choice

They should just increase the MP cost of raising by 50% or even 100% for RDM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

What about the dungeons though? Big pulls aoe BLM is winning there :P So for a casual who just do dungeons runs and 80% of the time AoE, BLM is better choice

---

Can confirm. RDM's aoe "rotation" is mind numbingly boring. It's basically a healer's aoe rotation. Just mostly Scatter and try not to let all of your brains dribble out of your nose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daws

Can confirm. RDM's aoe "rotation" is mind numbingly boring. It's basically a healer's aoe rotation. Just mostly Scatter and try not to let all of your brains dribble out of your nose.

---

RDM's AoE rotation is about as involving as any non MNK/SAM/BLM. As in, not very.

Yeah, RDM AoE is kinda boring unless you have the mana to go melee. Sadly the fun is over really fast and then you have to go into one button mash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

Yeah, RDM AoE is kinda boring unless you have the mana to go melee. Sadly the fun is over really fast and then you have to go into one button mash.

---

RDM Melee aoe is also 1 button (moulinet)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alimdia

RDM Melee aoe is also 1 button (moulinet)

---

Yes but you can jump in, smack them and jump back :>

RDM is actually OP. Along with Bard (but that's a discussion for another thread).
When a job does everything you can do, better, and easier, and offer more, that's being overpowered.

But keep in my Yoshi said they intentionally made them stronger than they should be to get people to play the jobs, so....Yeah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

RDM is actually OP. Along with Bard (but that's a discussion for another thread).
When a job does everything you can do, better, and easier, and offer more, that's being overpowered.

But keep in my Yoshi said they intentionally made them stronger than they should be to get people to play the jobs, so....Yeah.

---

I keep hearing people say that he said this but nobody ever actually says where and I can't seem to find it, so if you don't mind?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daws

Can confirm. RDM's aoe "rotation" is mind numbingly boring. It's basically a healer's aoe rotation. Just mostly Scatter and try not to let all of your brains dribble out of your nose.

---

Dont mind boring rotation if it does the job and is effective :P How far behind is RDM AoE damage from BLM?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Dont mind boring rotation if it does the job and is effective :P How far behind is RDM AoE damage from BLM?

---

There is quite literally no comparison, between Thunder IV, Thunder IV procs, Fire II, Flare and Foul. Ahh, I love Foul.

RDM needs an AoE nerf. And an ST nerf. Maybe buff it's enchanted melee combo slightly, but still Nerf it's personal dps. It still does more, easier, than its counterparts. An easy job doesn't deserve the personal #'s it has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

RDM needs an AoE nerf. And an ST nerf. Maybe buff it's enchanted melee combo slightly, but still Nerf it's personal dps. It still does more, easier, than its counterparts. An easy job doesn't deserve the personal #'s it has.

---

Red Mage's AoE is inferior to Black mages. Black Mage just has a small set up duration where Red Mage comes out the gate swinging. The disparity grows even more when you start adding more enemies to the picture and back-to-back T4s are occurring almost every GCD. In a raw scaling sense, there is simply no comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

But keep in my Yoshi said they intentionally made them stronger than they should be to get people to play the jobs, so....Yeah.

---

even if Yoshi didnt say it, it makes perfect sense for multiple reasons, to make Rdm and Sam so attractive and strong.. (also when looking at HW release)

Blm (B4 & astral drop off when casting fire 1 under astral ice) and Smn (demi-Bahamut does

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

even if Yoshi didnt say it, it makes perfect sense for multiple reasons, to make Rdm and Sam so attractive and strong.. (also when looking at HW release)

Blm (B4 & astral drop off when casting fire 1 under astral ice) and Smn (demi-Bahamut does

---

... demi-Bahamut does not cast when moving), both Blm and Smn need some fixes..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

... demi-Bahamut does not cast when moving), both Blm and Smn need some fixes..

---

Naaaah, we're fine. I'm having so much fun with this job.
I don't even know if I want them to "fix" UH anymore (this priority rotation thing feels so engaging, you always need to be paying attention to small details).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

RDM needs an AoE nerf. And an ST nerf. Maybe buff it's enchanted melee combo slightly, but still Nerf it's personal dps. It still does more, easier, than its counterparts. An easy job doesn't deserve the personal #'s it has.

---

Why? Why can't an easier job be doing solid dps? Why should a job that doesn't require finger gymnastics be bad? It doesn't do more than BLM, it simply does easier. It does more than SMN, but SMN's problems don't have anything to do with RDM.

If you truly enjoy the more complex job, it shouldn't matter how much DPS a simpler job is doing. If you're playing a more complex job for any reason other than "I enjoy it", you're doing it wrong.

In a perfect world BLM would do a little more DPS, because they lack any support buffs. RDM should be in the middle, because they have one raid buff, but its dps gain overall isn't as impressive. SMN should do a little less, because they have Contagion or Radiant Shield, and Devotion.

And that's kind of how it is now, except SMN is not where it needs to be, it's too low

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

If you truly enjoy the more complex job, it shouldn't matter how much DPS a simpler job is doing. If you're playing a more complex job for any reason other than "I enjoy it", you're doing it wrong.

---

Because you don't hire a surgeon to get a few stitches when you can go to a less expensive doctor that does the job equally as well? Unless the complex job can put up appreciably higher numbers in content over the easier job, you can pretty much guarantee that everyone is gonna take the job that doesn't wilt when it fails the RNG lottery of not being targeted for a raid mechanic. RDM is the new SCH, an OP job that guarantees it's competition is competition fails by the sheer fact of its existence. If RDM must remain simplistic, at least balance it so that it's Utility is what brings it a spot in raid, not it's numbers that rival a BLM.

I want to level a caster. BLM looks fun and engaging. Unfortunately, considering how ridiculously OP RDM is, I'd feel terrible if I tried to do anything harder then expert because the amount of stuff that the group would be missing if I went RDM is mind boggling. Thusly, I'm pretty much forced to make myself level RDM and tell myself I'm enjoying it when the truth is I'm struggling not to fall asleep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

snip

---

If you pug crap, then yeah, nobody's going to want you if you're not FotM rerolling.

If you go with friends, and you're not min/maxers, they're likely not going to care what you do as long as you've learned to do it well.

I've been in the MMO genre for about a decade now, and i've learned that it's much easier to just play what you like and get really good at it instead of caring about how everyone else is doing, especially since, in the mmo genre, what's good today could literally be crap tier tomorrow.

Yeah RDM is pretty strong

BS aside. The reason you bring RDM is because they're safe. It's the reason why they bring WHM/AST comps and to a lesser extent, MNK over SAM. When your raid group stops being bad, You can play whatever you like except SMN and MCH. Those jobs are legit just bad and they need help.

Sometimes reading what ever Thunda_Cat_Smash says makes me want to facepalm my skull in. MCH (as of 4.05) and SAM are among the easiest DPS to play in the game as they have the least amount of punishment next to RDM. Those are you're only two DPS jobs leveled. Stop acting like you're some bastion of player skill.

On a final note. Speed run comps most likely won't even run a caster as MNK/DRG/BRD/NIN will most likely reign supreme.

Very few people seem to recognize that while RDM by default puts up good numbers (and as pointed out by several people already, not as much as BLM or MNK or SAM in the current tier), maximizing RDM DPS has a mild amount of RNG that can only be controlled once every 35 seconds. The amount of people arguing for RDM nerfs without experience playing them, BLM, or SMN in Savage is somewhat absurd. Me personally, I find that playing selfishly (minimizing raises, only using Vercure when DPS is otherwise unavailable) ekes out a tad more DPS since I'm able to focus on my own positioning and optimizing movement around Dualcast. However, the more attention you focus on other people, emergency top offs, using Dualcast for Raise, the more your potential damage diminishes. And as for people arguing the Embolden is OP, yes a whole entire .75% rDPS which realistically is more like a .5% increase is beyond OP, how could they possibly put something like that in the game.

So honestly if you love BLM and the playstyle, don't argue for a Raise in any way, you don't get to focus on yourself, you don't get to optimize your own damage. You become a safety pin, which as repeatedly pointed out before is the main reason for bringing RDM especially for progression. And again, as several people have pointed out, if the group you're in absolutely has to have an RDM, you're probably better off without them, savage is entirely possible with most non ridiculous comps and even then probably still possible. And if you care so much about what other people think that you don't play a class that's fun, in a game which by the way is entirely designed for entertainment, not rote completion of tasks as if it's some mediocre data entry job, I'm questioning how you're able to play an MMO at all with all the interaction between people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

MCH (as of 4.05) and SAM

---

Something interesting to note, I leveled MCH back in 4.0 because it was an extremely fun and engaging class to play with its focus on heat management and the way wild/mild fires worked, and it was a job I mained since 3.0. On the other hand, with them taking away an aspect I loved in its Heat Management, I haven't touched the job since. As of now, the only job that scratches my resource management itch is SAM... and WAR. If you take umbrage with my leveled jobs, bring it up with SE for having literally nothing else that scratches my itch for resource management. BLM looks fun, but no one would want one when they could have an RDM instead, hence why I'm trying to force myself to level it.

TL;DR? Not every one levels a job because they're easy. If I had known MCH was going to become both easy and worthless I wouldn't have even bothered in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

snip

---

I think MidnightTundra is more making the point that you wouldn't know if anyone would take BLM over RDM or vice versa since you don't play either, neither would you know how you'd do at the current tier since again, you don't play either. How can you make the case that RDM needs to be nerfed when you've 0 idea how they play at 70 for yourself and 0 idea how BLM plays at 70? And don't forget the fact that concrete, factual data undermines your claim that RDM is "factually" OP and your claim that its damage is on par with if not ahead of BLM. In fact, since 4.05 I've actually seen groups with reserved BLM spots for Savage as opposed to RDM, so you can't claim that "no one would take BLM over RDM" because many groups can and do. Basically, you don't know if you don't try.

So just play BLM? I find it really fun to play too. The only legitimately undertuned jobs are MCH and SMN (which I also find fun to play).

One of Xenosys' prog groups for Omega Savage has a BLM in it. They cleared the content week 1. Far too many people on these forums are over-estimating RDM. Embolden isn't anywhere near the league of rDPS contribution of trick attack and the plethora of BRDs abilities. RDM is there for a safety net just like WHMs are. When and if you don't need the safety net, just go with what does more damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

One of Xenosys' prog groups for Omega Savage has a BLM in it. They cleared the content week 1.

---

I ve read above that BLM AoE damage has some ramp up to be done to get full potential.. I guess its better on NPCs that will leave for long enough? I am interested in chosing a DPS for dungeon runs where I can help the most clear trash mobs as fast as possible. In HW I had Summoner for this and it worked great.. although it was a cooldown based AoE DPS, it was amazing when I could destroy 6-7 enemies in a matter of few seconds (especially when paired with a second summoner).

Now in SB I ve seen that most AoE skills got nerfed (100 damage on 1 target and reduced damage on sequential targets). And I read that summoner is in a bad state right now and too punishing if you do a mistake... Is BLM gonna give me that experience in dungeons? Kill packs of mobs quickly? If not, which class you think is the best for this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I ve read above that BLM AoE damage has some ramp up to be done to get full potential.. I guess its better on NPCs that will leave for long enough? I am interested in chosing a DPS for dungeon runs where I can help the most clear trash mobs as fast as possible. In HW I had Summoner for this and it worked great.. although it was a cooldown based AoE DPS, it was amazing when I could destroy 6-7 enemies in a matter of few seconds (especially when paired with a second summoner).

Now in SB I ve seen that most AoE skills got nerfed (100 damage on 1 target and reduced damage on sequential targets). And I read that summoner is in a bad state right now and too punishing if you do a mistake... Is BLM gonna give me that experience in dungeons? Kill packs of mobs quickly? If not, which class you think is the best for this?

---

Isn't really any ramp up time for BLM as long as you know when its coming you can be ready to blow stuff up out of the gate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thela

Isn't really any ramp up time for BLM as long as you know when its coming you can be ready to blow stuff up out of the gate.

---

So you think that BLM is the best job for that "experience" (Smashing packs of trash mobs in dungeons)? Not compared to RDM alone, but overal :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

So you think that BLM is the best job for that "experience" (Smashing packs of trash mobs in dungeons)? Not compared to RDM alone, but overal :P

---

BLM is on whole another level when it comes to aoe, I've heard that the only thing that comes even close are monks but I've never played monk myself so I would not know if I should agree or not, but everyone else will be just left behind by miles away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

I've been in the MMO genre for about a decade now, and i've learned that it's much easier to just play what you like.

---

yeah, but you wont get in half the parties or take double as long to find any.., depending on the class atm