Just a thought on Elezen.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Really? Because the concept art looks more proportioned to me.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...840ea05077.jpg

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If we want to play the concept art game, lets not forget Au Ra.
https://puu.sh/wG3Kk.jpg

Personally, that concept art for the Au Ra female looks miles better than what we have. They look dangerous, they are more covered in scales, and they have significantly larger tails. They look more draconic, which to me is a good thing,and considering the Au Ra are supposed to be an aggressive tribal society, that look would fit them so much better than the tiny lizard waifus we ended up with, and I 100% would have played one. So I fully understand wanting what could have been, trust me, I get it. But we work with what we have. but what the concept art shows is ultimately irrelevant, what we have is what matters. What the elezen could have been doesn't matter, what matters is the elezen we have is what those of us who play elezen like.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Continued (sorry can't edit on phone :( )

Where did the broad shoulders go on the concept? Why was the swift elegant slender stylized vibe the concept art gives not entirely translated to the 3d models? I just want to understand. I always see the concept and think of what could've been and get sad. Even the arms look slimmer. Hyur and miqote are translated so well, even Roegadyn women. What happened to Elezen females? No one's asking to make them short, just asking to stylize/refine them like they have them in their final concepts. :)

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YES!!! Look at how lovely that female Elezen is in the concept art! Tall, slender, elegant! But the in-game model looks so odd. Breaks my heart.

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Originally Posted by Beatrice

I think the male Elezen in this game are fine. DAMN fine, in fact! XD I think male Elezen are the most attractive dudes in the game. But the females do look weird to me in a way the males just don't. Other people have made pretty good points as to what bugs them about the Fem Elezen.

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Yes, exactly, it's because everyone has stereotypical ideas about what's "feminine" and what women should look like, and female elezen don't fit that.

That's exactly the reason why everyone thinks the male elezen look fine, because they're men.

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Originally Posted by seida

Yes, exactly, it's because everyone has stereotypical ideas about what's "feminine" and what women should look like, and female elezen don't fit that.

That's exactly the reason why everyone thinks the male elezen look fine, because they're men.

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Female Roes and Highlander Hyurs don't fit the stereotypical feminine stereotype either and I think they both look cool as hell. They don't have the weird proportions that, for whatever reason, female Elezen seem to have.

I think female Elezen are gorgeous as they are. I love their 'uncanny' builds, in a game where there are already plenty of options for dainty girls, and I think they look very graceful when dressed elegantly. If they want to add a big-head option for those who prefer cuter looks that's fine, but please don't touch the existing models. They can't even add more faces until they figure out a way to expand that for everyone else too, because changing the (admittedly crummy) options mid-game would make a whole bunch of Elezen ladies suddenly look different to how they designed their character.

But then I also love the Elezen run. Elezen are perfection. I started as an Elezen and I'll never fantasia to anything else (unless they change us I guess, in which case I'd have to go Au Ra or Roe).

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Originally Posted by seida

Yes, exactly, it's because everyone has stereotypical ideas about what's "feminine" and what women should look like, and female elezen don't fit that.

That's exactly the reason why everyone thinks the male elezen look fine, because they're men.

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because it totally makes sense that the male one looks normal and the female one doesnt (in terms of what we'd expect).
Especially when taking the concept art into consideration.
Might as well make the males stand out with some odd proportions too, no?


You all (not specifically just adressing you) need to get over the fact that many people are NOT happy with how elezen currently are....and mine and their opinion is not of lesser value than yours.




And just to trigger some snowflakes some more:

just because you call something which looks in appearance like Elves something else (aka Elezen),doesnt make it any less elvish.
Otherwise we might as well stop calling miqotes catgirls...because, duh, theyre called miqotes, not cats! (I mean,they arent fully cats, but we cant deny the strong resemblance, can we?)

My point is, we have a concept art to show how Elezen were supposed to look and we also get new illustrations featuring elezen every now and then when theres a new event or that SB illustration countdown
and I never see female Elezen looking like that in there. Isnt that weird? I dont see any of the ppl defending elezens as they are showing anything legit to prove that this is "how theyre meant to be".
All I see is snowflake entitlement and empty claims like "omg but thats how theyre supposed to be, they are elezen proportions, they arent elves" etc.

Unless we get an official statement, I dont really see how either side can be proven right or wrong. But I do think that the concept art is a good point to bring up when trying to make a point here.
As well as the general poorly done character customization that female elezen have.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

If they want to add a big-head option for those who prefer cuter looks that's fine, but please don't touch the existing models.

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I dont get this. I dont get this perception at all. HOW does adjusting the head size to the rest of the body to a NORMAL ratio make it a "big head" and HOW does that make a female elezen look CUTE?
is every single human being cute for having a normal sized head? o_O Can we please stop this nonsense idea that everyone wants a cute elezen anime waifu?
We still want a tall, elegant elezen lady....with a slightly bigger head. jesus.

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Originally Posted by SerasIV

So just a question regarding Elezen because I'm genuinely curious what other people think of them. Apologies if this has been done a billion times before and this is by no means meant to bash on the race or anyone who plays them. With that being said...

Is it a general consensus/belief that Elezen seem a bit... Disproportionate? Maybe its just me but in drawing a few for practice the skeletons I sketch for them always seem... Off. Maybe it's just me and never drawing "lanky" characters like them.

It's a shame personally because I would absolutely love to play one, but their proportions always throw me off and I inevitably change back before long. Does anyone else have an issue too or is it just me? :P

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They look... Extremely emaciated most of the time yes. Some people manage to pull them off okay, but even then the neck is just... Really odd. But that's how the elves were in FF11 too.

Aaaaa seeing what female au ra could've been makes me feel depressed at what we actually got ;-;. Hopefully in the future they'll add that kind of appearance as like a third option for fem aura :(

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

I dont get this. I dont get this perception at all. HOW does adjusting the head size to the rest of the body to a NORMAL ratio make it a "big head" and HOW does that make a female elezen look CUTE?

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'Normal' for what? Miqo'te? Lalafell? Giraffes? Or adult humans, which don't exist in Eorzea. Given that the in-game female Elezens all have this specific head:body proportion, a version with a bigger head would be a big-headed Elezen and the current proportion is, for Elezen, 'normal'. The men have tiny heads too comparatively. My character's hat/facewear game is nowhere near as interesting as his thighboot collection.

(I know I'm male, but my character in beta was a female Elezen and I do still rather like them, hence having an opinion.)

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

because it totally makes sense that the male one looks normal and the female one doesnt (in terms of what we'd expect).
Especially when taking the concept art into consideration.
Might as well make the males stand out with some odd proportions too, no?

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The males have the same proportions. I'm genuinely curious as to why everyone seems to be blind to this?? The men also have small heads and wide shoulders, it is not unique to female elezen.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

You all (not specifically just adressing you) need to get over the fact that many people are NOT happy with how elezen currently are....and mine and their opinion is not of lesser value than yours.

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And what about the fact that many of us like the way we are? So what, you want them to make a head/shoulder slider or something? They will either change it for everyone or not at all. And personally, I don't think change like that should be forced upon everyone who is already playing the race, when most of us are perfectly happy with the way we are.

And personally, yeah, I do value the opinions of those not currently playing elezen less. Obviously we're not going to appreciate people who don't even play elezen telling us how they think they should be changed.

Yes, more face customisation would be nice of course. But that's a completely separate issue.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

I dont really see how either side can be proven right or wrong..

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This, right here. This is the core problem with this entire issue. It cannot be proven right or wrong, because it's all preference on a person by person basis. An aesthetic choice cannot be right or wrong, that's simply not how it works.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

and mine and their opinion is not of lesser value than yours.

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You're right, they aren't, but neither are ours of lesser value to yours. However we have something lose, you do not. This is why we are being so defensive about it.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

HOW does adjusting the head size to the rest of the body to a NORMAL ratio

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A normal ratio to a standard human, once again, Elezen are not human, they are not supposed to be human, and are not the human analog. Stop holding them to the aesthetic balance of a different race.

Almost went back to Elezen because of this thread.

If i could look like alphinaud or alisaie, I would play an elezen, but instead they went with the terrible race design from FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

'Normal' for what? Miqo'te? Lalafell? Giraffes? Or adult humans, which don't exist in Eorzea. Given that the in-game female Elezens all have this specific head:body proportion, a version with a bigger head would be a big-headed Elezen and the current proportion is, for Elezen, 'normal'. The men have tiny heads too comparatively. My character's hat/facewear game is nowhere near as interesting as his thighboot collection.

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just because Hyur are called hyur, doesnt make them less human when it comes to APPEARANCE. So we can take that as a great example of a "normal" head to body ratio, yes.

I just dont see the male ones as having odd proportions. I mean, what some people said is correct: males are ok to have broader shoulders. But why would you make females the same? they ARE female after all.
Genders have different features.
Just look at female roes: they are quite chunky and have buff arms and legs...but they are nothing compared to their male hulk-like counterparts. If you were to say that its normal for both male and female elezen to have such broad shoulders,
then why do female roes differ so much from male roes? Or same goes for female aura and male aura. How does it make sense that female aura are so damn tiny when their male counterparts are friggin huuuuge (they couldve at least extended the possible max height on the fem au ra slider)?

As for "all in-game fem elezen" having this specific head: Alisaie would like to have a word with you.
(and no, it doesnt mean I want a carbon copy of Alisaie)

Alisaie is an adolescent. When she fills out a bit and grows up, her head will be as tiny as that of any other Elezen (presumably). There are lots of young Elezen in the game who haven't had their growth spurt yet so their heads look relatively large.

The answer to pretty much everything else is 'fantasy'. They didn't call us 'elezen' and 'hyur' because they couldn't spell the traditional words, they did it to allow them to deviate from established 'rules' and make their own twists on fantasy staples. I'm ok with the idea of a race without so many physically differences between the sexes; female Elezen are more graceful while male Elezen are more wiry, but both having broad shoulders, big hands, fierce expressions...? Why not? This is a world with a race where the hyper-feminine women are half the size of the hyper-masculine men, and with another race where the women and men look completely indistinguishable to outsiders. And if we must include real world examples, there are plenty of unusually tall women or unusually small men even though we only have one playable race IRL (humans). Diverse physiques are cool. Clinging to a narrow idea of 'normal' is less cool.

I would struggle to main a character of any race but Elezen because I love them so much the way they already are. There's really no good alternative on offer, so please don't change us.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

I just dont see the male ones as having odd proportions. I mean, what some people said is correct: males are ok to have broader shoulders. But why would you make females the same? they ARE female after all.
Genders have different features.

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At least you admit it's just because you don't think female elezen are "feminine enough", unlike most others in this thread.

Some races have a lot of sexual dimorphism (in particular, au ra) others do not - elezen in this case. That doesn't make it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Vesper-Aureolin

I don't think anybody here was saying that the fem Elezen were ugly because they're not how women are 'supposed' to look.

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The reason I cannot agree with this, is no one is complaining about the men having small heads. The proportions are the same. But for some reason it's acceptable for male elezen, but not for female. Why is that, then, if not for gender reasons?

While I'm not a fan of how Elezen are proportioned either; it's not like they're the only race with flaws. I have no self control and fantasia all the time, I've been both a male and fem Elezen before and it's just not been to my liking. That being said; I do find male Elezen super attractive. (Not because I don't like fem Elezen-- I just find men attractive lol)

I feel like this has become a bit of an aggressive thread considering there's no actual danger of the Elezen being changed in any way. Not to mention the odd choice of bringing gender stereotypes into it. Elezen have comparatively small heads, I don't think anybody here was saying that the fem Elezen were ugly because they're not how women are 'supposed' to look.

At most-- people are saying that if there was an option to perhaps adjust the proportions of the character, they would absolutely play one. And I think that's a very positive thing to add to a particularly rarely played race compared to Miqo'te or Au Ra.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Alisaie is an adolescent. When she fills out a bit and grows up, her head will be as tiny as that of any other Elezen (presumably). There are lots of young Elezen in the game who haven't had their growth spurt yet so their heads look relatively large.

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Um, no. Those young elezen have the same broad shoulder/small head issue like their grown-up version. So saying Alisaie is like that cos shes an adolescent is wrong.
Its not just her bigger head. She also has smaller, narrow shoulders. Her whole body ratio is completely different compared to other adolescent elezen npcs in the game.

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Originally Posted by Syfurion

This, right here. This is the core problem with this entire issue. It cannot be proven right or wrong, because it's all preference on a person by person basis. An aesthetic choice cannot be right or wrong, that's simply not how it works.

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...So here you acknowledge the problem....

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Originally Posted by Syfurion

A normal ratio to a standard human, once again, Elezen are not human, they are not supposed to be human, and are not the human analog. Stop holding them to the aesthetic balance of a different race.

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...and here you throw it all aboard and go back to making your own assumptions sound like facts. Apart from that, I never said "standard human", I said "normal".
Normal in terms of other races, or, if youd like to insist I'm refering to "standard human", Hyur.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Alisaie is an adolescent. When she fills out a bit and grows up, her head will be as tiny as that of any other Elezen (presumably). There are lots of young Elezen in the game who haven't had their growth spurt yet so their heads look relatively large.

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Alphinaud and Alisaie both seem to be late teenagers, like 15-17, girls and boys are normally done with their growing by 15, and yet both are practically 2 heads shorter than "adult" elezen. I would not be surprised to learn they're half elezens, like Hilda.

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Originally Posted by storm

Alphinaud and Alisaie both seem to be late teenagers, like 15-17, girls and boys are normally done with their growing by 15, and yet both are practically 2 heads shorter than "adult" elezen. I would not be surprised to learn they're half elezens, like Hilda.

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It's been confirmed a few times that Elezen don't reach their full height until quite late into their teens (or maybe even very early twenties). As a race they're canonically late bloomers.

As for why they look different to other young Elezen, they're just lucky enough to get special models. I suspect the reason is 'marketability' rather than anything deep - ISTR they were both confirmed as being full Elezen already - but perhaps there are small differences between other as-yet-unseen variants of Elezen which will come into play much later on. I have nothing against them adding half-Elezen or more faces when technology and development time permit.

just a side by side comparison on adolescent elezen npcs vs alisaie:

https://i.gyazo.com/f7d0e4d321bd0e47...f856e310f4.png

https://i.gyazo.com/7d62ebb49c8d0676...9cc547e346.png


the difference is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

...So here you acknowledge the problem....

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... I acknowledged the problem on page 6, YESTERDAY, so now I'm just gonna to run under the assumption you aren't actually reading half the responses in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Syfurion

There is absolutely no way that this argument can resolve because it's entirely based on opinion and personal taste.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

...and here you throw it all aboard and go back to making your own assumptions sound like facts. Apart from that, I never said "standard human", I said "normal".
Normal in terms of other races, or, if youd like to insist I'm refering to "standard human", Hyur.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Normal in terms of other races

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Why are you holding any race to the standards of normalcy of the other races? Are roegadyn not 'normal' because they don't have an Au Ra's horns? Is a miqo'te not 'normal' because the other races don't have a furry tail?
It's a fantasy world, we fight dragons, and demons, and angry animated balls of moss. 'Normal' doesn't enter into the friggin picture.

I have to admit I have never stared at the twins and the young Elezen NPCs enough to notice that, but as Alisaie/Alphinaud are meant to be on the older side and the generic Elezen children range from 'cheeky urchin no older than ten' to 'in full time employment and probably about to grow up at any second', I would put it down more to the team cutting corners to avoid making different models for different maturity levels, and wanting to make Alisaie/Alphinaud conventionally pretty as major NPCs.

It's worth noting that Alisaie/Alphinaud are canonically 'north ocean Elezen' rather than Duskwight/Wildwood too, according to the lore book.

The long neck there is hidden by his outfit, but his shoulders doesn't stretch out across the world nor does alisaie's.
semi off topic: game is in dire need of CC revamp. not just some proportional help with the elezen but nearly everyone looks damn near same. the miqote girls literally all look like they have the same exact face. aura with missed opportunity with mix and match with horns and faces. I thought with ps3 dropped, they could play with more things...but it feels like all we got was extra inventory space. the cc is so bare bones right now. hell, even maple story has more cc than we do. it's kinda ridiculous

This topic comes up constantly and even came up in beta.

The Elezen should be both pretty and yet not another "human with different ears" like we've seen with the miqote and au ra. Even though I tend to draw them as such. I'm not sure I would be play with such a change unless I had far more freedom with the character creator, as it is essentially telling me "Kallera Etoile, as she is, needs to die to satisfy the miqote horde." Which I am not ok with, at all.

There will always be a certain race that is a minority, why is it such a problem that it is the elezen?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. I love the way Elezen look and have never fantasia'd to anything else. I've known very tall people and to be honest thier proportions have been very similar (long and lanky). I don't mean to sound curt but not everyone is tiny and cute. I love how this game gives options as far as esthetic, body type, and emote personality. Elezen check all my boxes so I'll likely always be one, though fem-roe has always tempted me away ;).

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Originally Posted by Kallera

There will always be a certain race that is a minority, why is it such a problem that it is the elezen?

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Because people love, and have always loved, playing tall humans with pointy ears. Actually, hardly even the height, people just want the ears (hence all the people clamouring to look like Hilda after HW was released.) They hate that the ears they love are locked in with a weird body, so they want it changed.

Honestly, if SE gave Hyurs a pointy ear option, I bet all these complaints about elezen would disappear.

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Originally Posted by seida

Because people love, and have always loved, playing tall humans with pointy ears. Actually, hardly even the height, people just want the ears (hence all the people clamouring to look like Hilda after HW was released.) They hate that the ears they love are locked in with a weird body, so they want it changed.

Honestly, if SE gave Hyurs a pointy ear option, I bet all these complaints about elezen would disappear.

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Heh, yeah - look at World of Warcraft and Blood Elf population. :p

I've some issues with practically every race in this game, for example Hyur midlander running animation - but I just try to play races that has least problems in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by BlueLulu

Aaaaa seeing what female au ra could've been makes me feel depressed at what we actually got ;-;. :(

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Never Forget (credit:EliezelaShinjae)
https://i.imgur.com/9W0FmRw.png

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Originally Posted by DarkSlayerGrimm

Never Forget (credit:EliezelaShinjae)

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THIS! Exactly this! I joined in HW and the "dragon people" were what drew me to play the game. I was really excited to play one until I saw the females and went "nope!" (My husband was rolling a male so I wanted to be sappy and be a pair together). I was really upset and rolled Elezen instead. Now my husband is a handsome Wildwood to match my Duskweight :).

Moral of the story: not everyone finds the same astetic appealing.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

I think most Duskwight go for the look I have, namely the lighter skin.

I do see darker skin from time to time, but more often on males and less often on females (and on my server I\\'m not sure if it\\'s meant seriously, as it usually is accompanied by makeup options that can at best be called garish).

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I've actually yet to see a light skinned Duskwight like ever...until this thread. I love how unique it is.

Which is brings me to the main reason why I love my Elezen: it's different. I love the long neck, I love the long limbs, even the animations have their own charm to me that I really enjoy. I also appreciate how elusive they are. That said, I don't mind added options, it can only bolster creativity, not hinder it.

As for you female Elezen... Everytime I see you, I stop. And stare. Because you all are so beautiful to me.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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This!

Personaly, I find their body fine its only two things that I want to see changed:

1. Running and Sprinting animation, I find them awful and this is comming from a Lalafell with her silly walk.

2. Handsome face, males need a handsome face like Aymeric's.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

This!

Personaly, I find their body fine its only two things that I want to see changed:

1. Running and Sprinting animation, I find them awful and this is comming from a Lalafell with her silly walk.

2. Handsome face, males need a handsome face like Aymeric's.

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I love the Lalafel power strut.

I love the elezen faces and could deal with the proportions but as soon as they run I don't like them anymore. They should run more elegant not stiff.

I want to see some examples of how people think we should run so that I can get behind it. Because I like the way we run. If I could change one thing about Elezen it would be:

Female: The sidesaddle mount pose sometimes looks ridiculous/impossible on certain mounts, bouncing around.
Male: There are numerous model problems with our hips which are only obvious when sitting wearing trousers. I get around it by not wearing trousers much but it would be nice if my legs could stay attached to my body more often :(

Look, there's no need to turn this into an argument. We are all well aware that if SE ever do something with regards to model proportions, it would come in the form of options and/or sliders. Everyone would get to keep the current design or change as they see fit.

My only actual gripe is a technical one - strong side light from certain angles casts bizarre shadows across my character's face, like the geometry isn't aligned properly? The fact that it doesn't even occur from every angle implies to me that it's not intentional. Would be nice to have this fixed.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

My only actual gripe is a technical one - strong side light from certain angles casts bizarre shadows across my character's face, like the geometry isn't aligned properly? The fact that it doesn't even occur from every angle implies to me that it's not intentional. Would be nice to have this fixed.

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I don't think this is limited to our wonderful race. This thread (I remembered the title because it was so funny) has a lot of examples of the freaky shading problem: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-the-lights-on

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Originally Posted by OriWhitedeer

THIS! Exactly this! I joined in HW and the "dragon people" were what drew me to play the game. I was really excited to play one until I saw the females and went "nope!" (My husband was rolling a male so I wanted to be sappy and be a pair together). I was really upset and rolled Elezen instead. Now my husband is a handsome Wildwood to match my Duskweight :).

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Same! Someone hooked me into the game by showing me male Au Ra and saying there was females too. I was so hyped to be a big, scary dragon mom but then I saw them and it all deflated. They would have been so much cooler if they didn't look lifeless and papery.

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Originally Posted by Kuzonoha

I've actually yet to see a light skinned Duskwight like ever...until this thread. I love how unique it is.

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<---

All Duskies on Balmung seem to go grey or blue. I've been mistaken for Wildwood multiple times (even tho I'm... purple-grey?) because I'm not dark. My character is a lot paler in game than in the sidebar.

Here is my answer on Elvaan.. Been one since day 1.
Ahh the memories of an early start in 2005.

http://ffxi.darkmystics.com/images/u...506002051a.jpg

Oh yes.. and getting to Sandoria for the 1st time..

http://ffxi.darkmystics.com/images/u...625184745a.jpg