Has anyone beaten good king mog without cheating?

I can't remember....did people get banned for any of the ifrit exploits?.....Didn't think so.

Quit pursuing maximum punishment. Damn Nazis.

I'm Aistaraina Lanae, and I approve this thread.

Thanks to my aimbot I was able to insta-kill the king.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Icehunter

Heck, DYNAMIS had this same thing.

---

Not really and this is why the comparison to XI in this regard need to end -- XI didn't expel you from battlefields if everyone was dead, all they ever did was extend the time to reraise while inside of the battle to 3 minutes and depending on the arena, mobs never reset -- They returned to their positions, but summoners still had their pets and still had an active 2 hour if you didn't get past that phase -- Even the moogle fight in XI didn't reset in the same regard.

XI's battles didn't reset if you wiped, hence why people used it as a strategy in some fights, wiping was 99% of the time detrimental to success ESPECIALLY IN DYNAMIS, where you're not only time limited but in Dreamworld Dynamis you just wasted time even entering because you didn't get drops/etc until you unlocked subjobs and killed certain NMs, if you kept wiping before then (which also extended time) you wasted everyone's time.

If Good King gets to pop and raise all the dead Mogs whats wrong with the party also doing it?

Don't see problem with exploit, infact I aplaud whomever came up with it. It is perfectly fine to play as you wish. If they Devs really did not intend for us to be able to do it. Then they will remove it. Simple as that.

Uh, in XI, if you died in front of a monster, it would attack you. In this game, they ignore you even if you are literally inside the monster. Yeah, definitely intended this way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crispy_Rice

If Good King gets to pop and raise all the dead Mogs whats wrong with the party also doing it?

---

this is solid logic. so we should get a moogle memento or hellfire ability ourselves, too, right? in-battle mass rez? ranged petrify? aoe siphon-MP? an archer shot that deals half or more of a target's max HP in damage? i mean we should just be able to do absolutely anything and everything mobs do, right? that makes for some dynamic and difficult encounters and gameplay!

i don't understand why people are still white knighting an obvious exploit.

the reraise spell was in the dats, but it's not in the game. why isn't it in the game? why aren't there reraise items like in FFXI? why are we immediately kicked from battle when all party members die, whether they have an unaccepted raise on them, or not? why aren't we given 5-10 minutes after we all die before we're kicked from the instance?

it's silly and stupid anyway. people are beating this fight legit with a myriad of different strategies. some use one tank, some use two. some use 4 dps, some use 5. some even plug in thm/s. different kill orders. some stress killing all moogles in phase 1, some don't bother. some kite, some straight tank. and the bottom line is- all are able to win using varying strategies.

considering this, any mention of the exploit being fair or necessary because the fight is too hard is simply baseless crying from people who need to play better. the fight is supposed to be hard. sack up and improve.

the exploit isn't even *faster*. it's simply *easier*, and using an exploit to make the game *easier* deserves zero respect- especially when people are doing just fine without it.


anyway, this could be easily fixed a few ways:

1. give king true-aggro with a radius of the entire battle arena

2. as soon as the king and his minions kill a target and have no other targets on their hate list, immediately reset position to the center

3. if the party wipes and/or all hate resets, king immediately resummons all dead moogle minions, forcing you to start again even if you use the exploit to get the party back up

i just, for the life of me, can't understand all the white knighting of cheap exploits when the fight is completely and easily winnable without it- as long as you're not awful. and if you are awful and you still want a chance to win, ok- request devs put in an easy-mode version of the fight with much lower drop rates. farm that all you want. but don't mess it all up for those of us that are actively playing this game *for* the challenge and enjoy the good-natured rivalries that come from trying to beat each other to legitimate, earned and deserved world/server-first wins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

this is solid logic. so we should get a moogle memento or hellfire ability ourselves, too, right? in-battle mass rez? ranged petrify? aoe siphon-MP? an archer shot that deals half or more of a target's max HP in damage? i mean we should just be able to do absolutely anything and everything mobs do, right? that makes for some dynamic and difficult encounters and gameplay!

i don't understand why people are still white knighting an obvious exploit.

the reraise spell was in the dats, but it's not in the game. why isn't it in the game? why aren't there reraise items like in FFXI? why are we immediately kicked from battle when all party members die, whether they have an unaccepted raise on them, or not? why aren't we given 5-10 minutes after we all die before we're kicked from the instance?

it's silly and stupid anyway. people are beating this fight legit with a myriad of different strategies. some use one tank, some use two. some use 4 dps, some use 5. some even plug in thm/s. different kill orders. some stress killing all moogles in phase 1, some don't bother. some kite, some straight tank. and the bottom line is- all are able to win using varying strategies.

considering this, any mention of the exploit being fair or necessary because the fight is too hard is simply baseless crying from people who need to play better. the fight is supposed to be hard. sack up and improve.

the exploit isn't even *faster*. it's simply *easier*, and using an exploit to make the game *easier* deserves zero respect- especially when people are doing just fine without it.


anyway, this could be easily fixed a few ways:

1. give king true-aggro with a radius of the entire battle arena

2. as soon as the king and his minions kill a target and have no other targets on their hate list, immediately reset position to the center

3. if the party wipes and/or all hate resets, king immediately resummons all dead moogle minions, forcing you to start again even if you use the exploit to get the party back up

i just, for the life of me, can't understand all the white knighting of cheap exploits when the fight is completely and easily winnable without it- as long as you're not awful. and if you are awful and you still want a chance to win, ok- request devs put in an easy-mode version of the fight with much lower drop rates. farm that all you want. but don't mess it all up for those of us that are actively playing this game *for* the challenge and enjoy the good-natured rivalries that come from trying to beat each other to legitimate, earned and deserved world/server-first wins.

---

I knew what LS are you from, without reading your Sig. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

I knew what LS are you from, without reading your Sig. lol

---

What does their LS have to do with anything?

+1 for Verily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

I knew what LS are you from, without reading your Sig. lol

---

thank you for the insightful, constructive, and objective feedback. your contribution to this dialogue has been of vital importance, and a great help. this forum would be lost without you.

Funny how more people pop and take that Comment as an Offense. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

thank you for the insightful, constructive, and objective feedback. your contribution to this dialogue has been of vital importance, and a great help. this forum would be lost without you.

---

Insightful, Constructive and Objective? Hm.. yeah thats actually something i totally miss in this Thread.

Moral of thread: MY E-PEEN IS BIGGER THAN YOURS!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isaaru

Moral of thread: IM BUTTHURT I DID NOT GET WORLD FIRST!

---

Fixed that for you.

No. Moral of the thread: while some people just genuinely and legitimately disagree with it being an exploit (an opinion they're entitled to, though some disagree) and some people just genuinely and legitimately don't see how it is an exploit (an opinion they're entitled to, though some disagree)- other people (ie: ones making comments like yours) are either feeling the weight of guilty conscience after winning through an exploit, OR they're selectively literate, conveniently ignoring the actual things being discussed pretty calmly and constructively in the thread with denotative language, and most likely conveniently subbing in their own connotative and highly subjective/biased perception of it.

troll harder, young padawan.

Since you didnt say, who this is directed to i will going to answer it, since i am kind of bored. But i would assume its the Post below mine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

No. Moral of the thread: while some people just genuinely and legitimately disagree with it being an exploit (an opinion they're entitled to, though some disagree)

---

I disagree. o_o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

and some people just genuinely and legitimately don't see how it is an exploit (an opinion they're entitled to, though some disagree)

---

I dont see it. x_x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

- other people (ie: ones making comments like yours) are either feeling the weight of guilty conscience after winning through an exploit,

---

Oh? to make a conjecture?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

OR they're selectively literate, conveniently ignoring the actual things being discussed pretty calmly and constructively in the thread with denotative language, and most likely conveniently subbing in their own connotative and highly subjective/biased perception of it.

---

Errare humanum est, sed in errare perseverare diabolicum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

troll harder, young padawan.

---

You know the difference between subjective and objective? I said i dont see objective Posts in this Thread and im pretty much right, since most of your Posts are subjective. And your are trolling yourself right now with your intentional, repetitive and harmful Postings. :)

Of course you could go on and argue over something, which most People obviously dont care about OR you could let it simply go and have fun in this Game. If you cant let it go, you are simply proving the Point of many People in here which are saying you are "Butthurt". Im not saying you are, but you and some of your "mates" are overreacting a lot in a subjective way.

That is my opinion and calling me or whoever, a Troll doesnt prove anything of what you said. :)

Have a nice day, going to play.

This thread brings me back.

I used to feel sad whenever my classmates in elementary school boasted of their video game achievements using Gameshark and strategy guides. I used to say, "Hey, I figured out the Water Temple all on my own." No one cared ; ;

Now it's all gamefaqs and a million threads about what's the best way to make money and how do I powerlevel my party to max level. Eventually you learn to stop caring about what others are doing and be satisfied with what you know you managed to do.

I've always believed that if the mechanics are already programmed into the game, then you have every right to use it. It's way too easy to discover this by accident, was a common tactic in FFXI, and is nowhere near the level of exploitation as Salvage dupes (SE's bannings secretly made me feel giddy but it's still one hell of a shady move to do that without a warning or prior notice).

What's funny is that SE did a rollback on those people that powerleveled their Conjurers to level 30 by spamming buffs back in the SP days, but did nothing about the 300k/hr powerleveling parties at Natalan Wolf camp. Just nerfed Storm's Path two months later as part of a major battle overhaul.

"Working as intended," apparently. Deal with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kro

This thread brings me back.

I used to feel sad whenever my classmates in elementary school boasted of their video game achievements using Gameshark and strategy guides. I used to say, "Hey, I figured out the Water Temple all on my own." No one cared ; ;

Now it's all gamefaqs and a million threads about what's the best way to make money and how do I powerlevel my party to max level. Eventually you learn to stop caring about what others are doing and be satisfied with what you know you managed to do.

I've always believed that if the mechanics are already programmed into the game, then you have every right to use it. It's way too easy to discover this by accident, was a common tactic in FFXI, and is nowhere near the level of exploitation as Salvage dupes (SE's bannings secretly made me feel giddy but it's still one hell of a shady move to do that without a warning or prior notice).

What's funny is that SE did a rollback on those people that powerleveled their Conjurers to level 30 by spamming buffs back in the SP days, but did nothing about the 300k/hr powerleveling parties at Natalan Wolf camp. Just nerfed Storm's Path two months later as part of a major battle overhaul.

"Working as intended," apparently. Deal with it.

---

I have a mewthree.

Here's a video of our second win (no wipe) on day two, 12/17/11 around 11pm est. Hope it helps you all! Good luck!

GLA x2 ARC x4 CNJ x2

Part one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkuhDT90GZA

Part two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t94A5IwSDyw

If you didn't beat it while: singing the moogle song backwards + using only your left foot as your hands + everyone being naked (both ingame and IRL) + using a lvl 1 DoL + herpdyderping...

...it wasn't a legit kill.

I just went through like 7 pages waiting on Manafont to respond and s/he didn't. So sad.

First Moogle victory for myself today, and it was legit without wipes. I think the Moogles noticed, as they rewarded me with this awkward salad fork...

Can someone say in this thread which does people mean as exploit? using mass ARC is an exploit or revive the dead is exploit? or there is something else even more?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

some people just genuinely and legitimately don't see how it is an exploit (an opinion they're entitled to, though some disagree)

---

I'm one of these people.

First of all, let me say that I find this a pretty cheap way to do the fight, and I hope they render this strategy useless in the future. However, I don't see the logic you're using to call this an exploit. At the very least I don't see how you can be against using this "exploit" if you have been perfectly fine doing a lot of other things which by your own definition, should be called exploits too.

Unless I'm wrong, this "exploit" is caused by three specific rules:

-Sight-aggroing enemies will ignore you completely as long as you don't stand directly in front of them.
-Raising clears your hate completely until you perform a hostile action on the enemy or get aggroed again.
-Once a instanced battlefield boss has lost hate on all party members, he does not reset back to the first stage of the fight.

These things work the same way in every single part of the game (Ifrit, Strongholds, etc). There's nothing that's not working exactly as it should in this fight. It's not like under specific circumstances your dead party isn't ejected from the battlefield, or anything like that.

Let me make sure I understand why you're calling it an exploit, though:

You're calling this an exploit based on how it cheapens the fight and how it's not the intended way to do it. Is this correct?

Like I said, I agree that this method is cheap and this was certainly not the intended way to beat the fight when it was designed, but if those reasons are enough to call it an exploit, then please tell me what you think of these:

-Despawning enemies in Darkhold (both normal mobs on the way to the bosses, and skeleton adds).
-AFKing to level 50.
-Failing guildleves for extra experience points.
-Abusing enemy leashes to kill them while receiving minor damage.
-Leaving parties to avoid Links (moogle key items, stronghold key holders).

All these things cheapen their respective events, and most likely they were all unintended. Following your definition, they should be called exploits too, shouldn't they?

If you don't consider them exploits, and you simply see awkward mechanics at work, then I'd appreciate if you told me again why you consider this moogle deal an exploit, since obviously I missed something you said.

If you consider them exploits, but have been perfectly fine using them during the last year, then I believe that makes you hypocritical. In which case all this complaining and name-calling is fairly moot and pointless.


I think you should campaign for this strategy to be removed, I support that. Just because something isn't an exploit doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed, just like if something feels "wrong" that doesn't mean it's an exploit.

Taking the "I'm better than you" attitude on this issue and calling everyone who is using it a cheater, considering the state of the game and all the things you've surely done over the last year confuses me.

For example: You can't disband your groups to kill the key item NMs and then brag about how you're doing the Moogle event "the intended way" with a straight face. You're not.


Not trolling, just legitimately trying to follow your train of thought and trying to understand why you're annoyed with this. If you're just annoyed that people you consider unworthy are able to do the fight with this strategy, say that clearly instead, but don't hide behind words like "legit" and "exploit".



TL;DR: Cheap strategy that should be removed? I think so. Does that make it an exploit that is wrong to use? I don't think so, unless we're all hypocrites.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alise

Can someone say in this thread which does people mean as exploit? using mass ARC is an exploit or revive the dead is exploit? or there is something else even more?

---

Quote:

---

ex·ploit
verb (used with object)
1. to use selfishly for one's own ends
2. to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account
3. to advance or further through exploitation

---

Goes with definition #1 - people are exploiting a bug and or flaw in SE's terrible encounter design that stems all the way back even into early FFXI.

Goes with definition #2 - people have been stacking classes since the beginning of MMOs. This is not exploiting in the traditional sense of the word its more a strategical move.

Goes with definition #3 - this is why people exploit or cheat in MMOs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xxMaplexx

http://tinypic.com/r/e9dyjs/5

Manafont, When are you going to complete your quest? Or your LS was only able to kill just the King? Anyone wanna count it as a win if you've only killed the Moogle King? lol

---

This guy is on our server, and it started some heated drama on Besaid. Thus our LS leader made this picture: http://i42.tinypic.com/2hmgaj7.jpg

Fight is hard, but it's winable without wiping, that's for sure O_~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraAmane

This guy is on our server, and it started some heated drama on Besaid. Thus our LS leader made this picture: http://i42.tinypic.com/2hmgaj7.jpg

---

ahah ahaa this is amazing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraAmane

This guy is on our server, and it started some heated drama on Besaid. Thus our LS leader made this picture: http://i42.tinypic.com/2hmgaj7.jpg

---

haha awesome xD Grats to you guys for Besaid server first!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard_BG

ahah ahaa this is amazing

---

thx maple and richard ...n nice pic Kira... im sry i told u to stop aruging with insonmia in game... but this just made my day...=)

n yea.. its nice to have the community backing us up, n the person who came up with that line on the buttom is brilliant =).. cough cough...

kira..maybe u should post the pic where they try to hide the moogle on here too...

Everyone look at their beautiful e-peen! See how it glistens!

Now look at the other e-peens. Which is bigger? Which of the people has a bigger a-hole?

The world may never truly know, but at least the arguments will continue

Lol. Great Thread!

Just wanna point out no one else from insomnia is making 1000posts about world first or using arc/death/whateverelseyouwannacallan exploit other than neo manafont, i'm embarrassed to be playing the same game as this dildo much less in the same ls, hes a terrible player and an even more annoying person. Just for the record i myself don't care who got world first or game first or whatever first, in fact i didn't even go with them the first day but i wouldn't be bragging about being world first on anything much less an easy fight like this even if i had and i usually wouldn't even give a thread like this a second thought but this guy is making us all look retarded so i thought i should point this out

i like how claiming world first or server first does not even matter in this game, cause in the end everyone is equal. So its funny that people have to brag about killing stuff that eventually everyone can do in a short period of time. This game is so casual and junk its not much of an accomplishment imo. This game is too easy. Why even argue about it. Fyi it is funny how that ls on besaid in that screenshot took like a month+ to down Ifrit. As for neo stop posting on these forums u make us look bad. sometimes u just have to shut the flluuk up and listen to people. i iz in insomnia as well. Cheers have fun. Time to get some forum medals for my achievement in game. woops nevermind

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

Oh? to make a conjecture?

---

in sarcastic response to a previous conjecture. i don't see you quoting them and shaking your finger, though? if you're going to call a spade a spade, you have to do it across the board, kiddo. is that bias on your part?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

Errare humanum est, sed in errare perseverare diabolicum.

---

ever heard the phrase "eschew obfuscation"? if you're going to cite cliches, perhaps do it in the language of the current discussion. but once again, i don't see you holding this standard to those you seem to be leaping to the defense of. so go on and do that, then, and i'll wait.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

You know the difference between subjective and objective? I said i dont see objective Posts in this Thread and im pretty much right, since most of your Posts are subjective. And your are trolling yourself right now with your intentional, repetitive and harmful Postings. :)

---

subjective = me calling this post idiotic.

however, reraise is currently implemented in ffxi, and not in ffxiv. that is factual, and objective. battlefields in ffxi allow for reraise mechanics (giving you a time limit after total wipe to regroup and try again), when in ffxiv they do not (immediately kicking the party upon total wipe). that is factual, and objective. it's also factual and objective that a myriad of different linkshells across different servers have been beating the fight without exploiting, by using intended game mechanics, using different strategies (ie: different party configurations, different kill orders, etc). therefore, it is objective and factual that comparing Divine Might and similar battles to this is invalid, because they're battles existing in and based upon wildly different mechanics. additionally, it is therefore objective that it is an invalid example in intending to negate or undermine the claim that using the tactics in Divine Might means it's legal and intended to use them in Moggle Mog.

my opinion is that it is indeed an exploit, and needs to be fixed. that part is subjective. however, my opinion in this case is based upon factual, objective evidence.

now show me yours, to counter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

OR you could let it simply go and have fun in this Game. If you cant let it go, you are simply proving the Point of many People in here which are saying you are "Butthurt". Im not saying you are, but you and some of your "mates" are overreacting a lot in a subjective way.

---

again, you're attempting to skew the discussion. a lot of people may be easily swayed by this, but i'm no idiot. you'll have to try harder.

i don't care that we didn't get world first. i care that it was achieved through cheap exploitation of game mechanics to totally wipe the true difficulty and heart of the encounter's challenge, and that people continue to do it and continue to defend it.

i keep reiterating this countless times in the threads, and no amount of "hurrr ur just mad we beat u hurrrr" projection by the bads/trolls/exploiters will change its existence, meaning, or authenticity.

leave it to people to call it 'overreaction' to be upset about exploiting in games. i guess people shouldn't care that the Patriots were cheating while winning superbowls, and vegas should turn off its extensive and intricate security camera systems and just allow people to win however they want. enron? that's cool, guys. embezzle all the money you want.

who really cares, right? let people play any game however they want, right? who needs integrity? and better yet- why bother championing it?

i guess let's just petition SE to let us have cheat codes for infinite gil, infinite levels and anything else in the game we could ever want, because cheating clearly doesn't impact a game with many other players yeah?

who cares! just have fun!

^ give that man a gold medal on the forums

wow that was the most text ive ever seen in my life, and there is no tl;dr

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

i don't care that we didn't get world first. i care that it was achieved through cheap exploitation of game mechanics to totally wipe the true difficulty and heart of the encounter's challenge, and that people continue to do it and continue to defend it

---

Because your LS is known for never going "through cheap exploits of game mechanics"? Kay. How is this topic still up? Jesus people whats done is done. Can't change the past, on to the next.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by solracht

You're calling this an exploit based on how it cheapens the fight and how it's not the intended way to do it. Is this correct?

---

No. i'm calling it an exploit based on the objective fact that reraise is not a spell currently implemented in this game, and the Moggle Mog instance does not allow for reraise-like mechanics (by immediately kicking the party upon total wipe, unlike BCNMs in FFXI which gave you 5+ minutes to reraise and recover).

if the game mechanics are clearly designed to kick your entire party out and make you start completely fresh again when you fail, this tactic to essentially reraise and recover with an unblemished aggro table is clearly exploiting intended mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowln

Because your LS is known for never going "through cheap exploits of game mechanics"? Kay. How is this topic still up? Jesus people whats done is done. Can't change the past, on to the next.

---

humor me, then- how has my LS exploited game mechanics? which specific situations, and how were they exploited?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Treach

wow that was the most text ive ever seen in my life, and there is no tl;dr

---

here's an easy one for you to read/understand: does anyone in your linkshell have anything constructive to say about this topic? if so, direct me to them, so we can have a fair discussion. in the meantime i'd rather not waste my time on inarticulate, flailing trolls.

nope, cause no one really gives a shit, I just enjoy trolling