Lupin - make it a playable race!

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Good thing we're playing a Fantasy game.

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Fantasy =/= ignoring all logic. Every universe has its rules, and for all intents and purposes, they're too beasty to be acceptable just cause.

so catman, dragonman, now wolfman? noooooo

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Originally Posted by ImDingDing

so catman, dragonman, now wolfman? noooooo

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Human face/body
Human face/body
Doggo face/ mostly human body. Not desirable to the majority of the player base and too bestman to be acceptable for Ul'dah and Gridanians would probably spear them on the spot. Really, it's a wonder why auri even get accepted.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

Nevermind the fact that maybe Roes aren't the beastly look people want. .

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Roes are hardly beastly at all, they are just muscled Hyurs but the only bearable race in this game for me tbh. Maybe if they were still Galka they would be different enough since Galka are Ursine in nature. But this is a JRPG people don't want to play beastly, they want waifu races.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

HOW ABOUT....

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...1FLBjCktdOzykA

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If it looked more like this, then yes http://www.dragonarmyone.com/_/rsrc/...ged_Wizard.jpg

I'm all for more variety and less races that are just variations of human. I'd love for Lupin to be playable! Why else make assets and add them into the game as NPCs then to dangle things in our face to tantalize our imaginations? :)

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

Fantasy =/= ignoring all logic. Every universe has its rules, and for all intents and purposes, they're too beasty to be acceptable just cause.

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I think I'll wait for SE's take on them, if a question is asked about them being potentially playable in a Live Letter.
If FFXIV does get around to making a 7th playable race, it's high time for SE to actually make them start in their home village and have them enter Eorzea around the Air Ship envoy quest. Let's say Viera become playable; while people will be happy to just be able to play as this race, it's still going to be jarring to have them suddenly show up in La Noscea, Gridania, or Ul'dah and no one in the MSQ seeming to care about your long ears (or demonic horns, in the Auri's case).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I think I'll wait for SE's take on them, if a question is asked about them being potentially playable in a Live Letter.

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Not to mention that this is THEIR universe, they can mold it as they please when ever they want.

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Originally Posted by Berret_Snowbear

Not to mention that this is THEIR universe, they can mold it as they please when ever they want.

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This is true, but please consider the lore. Please? It'd look awful stupid to have the starting Ul'Dah cutscene, blah blah blah beastmen, and completely ignore the angry dog face on screen. the only explanation I could ever fathom would be "oh it's just a mask" or glamour because something something intimidation.

I like how everyone is crying "furry" for wanting a beastlike race. I'm for a inhuman race. Right now the least human looking races are Lalafel, Au Ra and Roe in some ways. Something that is different would be great. I'll support anything that isn't "human".

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

This is true, but please consider the lore. Please? It'd look awful stupid to have the starting Ul'Dah cutscene, blah blah blah beastmen, and completely ignore the angry dog face on screen. the only explanation I could ever fathom would be "oh it's just a mask" or glamour because something something intimidation.

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Honestly Theres already stupid stuff with the player: "Summoners were hunted across the lands and put to death" -> can prance about as a summoner at any location without issue. "You have no idea what its like to be an Au Ra" -> An Au Ra talking to an Au Ra.

And then theres all the "We need a healer" moments when the player is a healer that was only JUST fixed in stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

This is true, but please consider the lore. Please? It'd look awful stupid to have the starting Ul'Dah cutscene, blah blah blah beastmen, and completely ignore the angry dog face on screen. the only explanation I could ever fathom would be "oh it's just a mask" or glamour because something something intimidation.

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That's why I say (in my edited response to you) SE should consider making new races start in their home village/city and then fly/sail to Eorzea for X reason once they reach the envoy point in the story. Naturally, there will need to be some changes to the dialogue in the MSQ (and maybe Classes), but that's still better than what we have now (just imagine if the Au Ra started in one of the Stormblood zones).

This even applies to the Viera. While I am still not a fan of them at all, if they were made playable in this game... I would like to see them actually start in their home village/city. Drown the player in Viera lore before sending them off to Eorzea and make the NPC's in quest/MSQ dialogue actually react to what you are >:U (especially if they're from 'The New World')

We have this discussion and the answer is always the same. We'll never get non "cute" races because the East doesn't want them, and the West won't front enough money to cover it. At the end of the day, the "sexy" races, aka Miqote and Au Ra are the most played by a great landslide, Hfafgapa Zibom and friends not withstanding.

HOWEVER, I strongly believe that the Viera are coming. Much like the Gjallarhorn was in Destiny, they're being saved for a time when the devs feel they need a big boost in revenue. The Devs KNOW that they're a popular demand and they KNOW that fantasia sales will explode the day it happens. Just gotta wait for the right time

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Burmecian, Wolfman (FFV), Ronso, whatever Baku is (FFIX), hippomen (FFIX again), rhinomen (FFIX... again), bird people (various kinds, also FFIX again). FFIX in general was pretty diverse with their races.

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Now...don't get me wrong. I love being a femroe. I actually changed out of mi'qote to become a femroe. But honestly? I would fantasia myself in an INSTANT to play as a Ronso. Call me a furry all you want, I don't really care, but I'd rather be something that's non-human. I'm a human 24/7 in real life, why would I want to be one in a fantasy game? Also you people saying beast races are fetishistic? Look at both gender of mi'qote. look at female Au Ra. If you don't think either are potentially fetishistic then ya'll are truly in denial.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

This is true, but please consider the lore. Please? It'd look awful stupid to have the starting Ul'Dah cutscene, blah blah blah beastmen, and completely ignore the angry dog face on screen. the only explanation I could ever fathom would be "oh it's just a mask" or glamour because something something intimidation.

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The Au Ra make no sense in 2.0 starter content either...... any new race wont. Hell, I walk around as a giant moogle which makes no sense lore wise.
Lore is written by the devs..... nothing is set in stone in a game.

I'm thinking, if the Lupin are being added it will be a 4.x surprise.
The models have moving jaws and are already fitted for standard gear.... Its very likely they are coming.

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Originally Posted by Jade_Gryphon

Look at both gender of mi'qote. look at female Au Ra. If you don't think either are potentially fetishistic then ya'll are truly in denial.

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This is why I was so disappointed when they claimed Au Ra was gonna be a more 'beastial race' but what we got was not quite what I was expecting as 'beastial.' We got another cute, attractive psuedo-human on the female side, but with horns. I was hoping for something more like FemRoe. :(

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I would like to see them actually start in their home village/city. Drown the player in Viera lore before sending them off to Eorzea and make the NPC's in quest/MSQ dialogue actually react to what you are >:U (especially if they're from 'The New World')

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Now that's more like it. I'd just stay a cat because it's a guaranteed way for 99% of the player base to be friendly towards you, but I'd still be interested in seeing more story around them, different tribes, ect.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I'm thinking, if the Lupin are being added it will be a 4.x surprise.
The models have moving jaws and are already fitted for standard gear.... Its very likely they are coming.

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Also, same death animation when you beat them up afaik

They just look like Lalafell Mounts to me...

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I think I'll wait for SE's take on them, if a question is asked about them being potentially playable in a Live Letter.
If FFXIV does get around to making a 7th playable race, it's high time for SE to actually make them start in their home village and have them enter Eorzea around the Air Ship envoy quest. Let's say Viera become playable; while people will be happy to just be able to play as this race, it's still going to be jarring to have them suddenly show up in La Noscea, Gridania, or Ul'dah and no one in the MSQ seeming to care about your long ears (or demonic horns, in the Auri's case).

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I don't think you realize just how astronomical of an undertaking that would be to please a very small portion of the player base.

It's not about pleasing (well, I would be pleased for Lupin to be playable), but making sense. I'm not 100% sure, as I have never played as an Au Ra, but I have a feeling that not one NPC comments about what you are, despite being the only Au Ra to appear in Eorzea, with demonic looking horns and a reptilian-looking tail. It's jarring and makes the entire point of Yugiri masking her appearance pointless (she should reveal herself when she sees you're an Au Ra).

That needs to change with any future race and the "easiest" way to do this is to have them start in their home zone. The laziest way would have them start in any of the three cities, hand a letter of 'do not attack me plz' to a guard and then you're golden from there.

@Abriael Lmao, so you're going to discredit the fact that there are separate tribes among the beastmen who actually work alongside the human-like races? While yes there are hostile tribes who oppose humanity, it's not as black and white as you put it. Qiqirn can be seen in Limsa and Ul'Dah as traveling merchants, an Ixali can be seen conversing with another NPC within the Arcanist guild.
While I may not be a fan of the Lupin model, I wouldn't immediately cast out the idea of a playable beastkin/beastmen race completely. And while a few couldn't care less about having one, let alone another race period, the masses seem to be clamoring for a beast race at this point. To say it wouldn't be popular, is more of a personal opinion than a fact.

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Originally Posted by xXBigBroxX

To say it wouldn't be popular, is more of a personal opinion than a fact.

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It may as well be fact. JP/EU like waifus and host club husbandos.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2ij3xqs.png

I cannot even imagine the amount of dev time that would have to go into making the headpieces work for these people. I would be more for the Viera even though I am one of those that loathe the idea of dev work going in to it.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

We already have a massive thread about this, so what made you think we needed another?

And no. The whole story is about humanoid races vs beastmen. The warrior of light belongs to the former. The wolfheads to the latter. There won't ever be beastmen warriors of light and they're not going to change the whole story to add a race that wouldn't be popular anyway.

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I think that's the point.

There hasn't been a lore explanation for Roe, Lalafell, Hyur and Elezen's lack of any animal ears or tails, but clearly the Roe and Miqo'te have a colored nose option, the Elezen and Lalafell have long ears, and the Hyur and Miqo'te have the same height as the teenage Elezen. Even the Imperials are just a taller Hyur.

So put two and two together. They all evolved from the same species at some point.

Metaphorically however, the explanation is much simpler
Lalafell = Dwarf
Miqo'te = Any "half" animal race ( very common, usually cute )
Au Ra = Any "half" demon/dragon/succubus race (less common, usually meant as an evil counterpart to the Half-animal)
Hyur = Your plain ol' Human
Elezen = Clearly not an elf.
Roegadyn = Giants

Of the non-playables that aren't beast tribes, you have the Padjal which appear to be Hyur with Horns ( this is a due to an aetheric connection to the forest, if you play the WHM storyline.)

We've also seen child versions of Elezen, Miqo'te, Au Ra, Hyur. We have not seen any Roe or Lalafell children (though there's been references at least to Lalafell children.) There's also been references to half-breeds (half breed of what though?)

It is easiest for Square-Enix to give us more races that are in the half-animal category because the modeling requirements already exist for the Miqo'te, and largely the hair modeling is the only thing that changes with the Au ra. The horns aren't simply a "hat".

That said, we need to think bigger, or smaller. Another race that shares the Lalafell or Roe gear would be more likely than another race that shares the Hyur-Miqo'te-Au Ra gear set.

Thinking about this a little more, aren't the half-bunny race (Viera) more like the Elezen in stature? I believe we got the Au Ra instead because the modeling requirements were easier (simply put, the Miqo'te gear is exactly the same) where as the feet of the Viera would require having permanent highheels.)

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Originally Posted by ExKage

You can't use it as a lore reason when SE was clearly thinking about it until they decided that the playerbase just prefers 'hyurs' (aka Roes are the least played so obviously beastly types are not desired)....

Nevermind the fact that maybe Roes aren't the beastly look people want. They decided to make Au Ra Concept still a realization. Maybe not an actual player race but maybe they can in the future. But that 'lore' excuse is not one that really makes sense when they even -considered- it.

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I think the problem with the Roes is that they need to fill a gap in the size chart. Every MMORPG has one "buff" race and one "dwarf" race version of a human. If they didn't have them, then the elezen become the tallest, and a buff highlander Hyur are still diminutive to a Elezen.

Part of this is that the modeling requirements for the cutscenes does not allow for simple "magnet stretching" that you'd see in like Aion. This is because the models in FFXIV are actually layered (also results in the "missing underwear" problem of some clothes if the camera clips through it.) If you've seen how readable the emotions are in faces during the cutscenes.

One of my friends said that the card-throwing scenes in the Hildibrand sidequests on her lalafell, the card actually does moves downward across the face and then back up towards Hildibrand or Briardien's forehead.

If for example, you create a new race, that means you have to go back through all the cutscenes where the Warrior of Light Avatar interacts with something (even as much as where his/her eyes are looking) to make sure it doesn't look awkward.

Hence we will likely not get Lupin as a playable race simply because the vast majority of the game can't model a non-human face. Look at Cait Sith's facial animations to see how awkward it looks. It doesn't appear that the Lupin in the game have any emotive options with their face because their mouths do not work that way. Their mouths move like the beastmen mouths which is mostly in head movements.


I think we need to also look back at the original census:
http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_S.png

There is a split down the middle for Japan, but EU and NA are reverse of each other for genders, which means you absolutely can not create a single-gender race.

Lupin race does seem rather unique.

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Originally Posted by Medicine

...Please no...

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I don't see what's the matter, wolf race is still better than those viera you defend. Between rabbit-hyur and a real new race, real new race > rabbit-hyur

viera and lupin should be a playable race.

Lupin IRL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la4SbyC62S4

Please NO I think it looks awful and lifeless

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Originally Posted by Mature

Please NO I think it looks awful and lifeless

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But what about lalas then

I think that Lalafell, Au Ra (more like Augly Ra amirite?) and Miqote should be removed from the game.

Honestly I think that this might be easier for SE to implement than Viera. They have the base data in the game already. All that would be left would be the gear and customization options. I vote for Lupin!

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Originally Posted by xXBigBroxX

@Abriael Lmao, so you're going to discredit the fact that there are separate tribes among the beastmen who actually work alongside the human-like races? While yes there are hostile tribes who oppose humanity, it's not as black and white as you put it.

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There's a very large and wide difference between "working alongside" and not being seen as alien in nature, and that is expressed a ton of times during the story. I never once mentioned hostility in my posts, so your argument is moot.

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the masses seem to be clamoring for a beast race at this point.

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You're mistaking the same few people posting on this kind of thread over and over with some kind of mass. This is a common mistake, but still a mistake.

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To say it wouldn't be popular, is more of a personal opinion than a fact.

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All instances of the census show extremely clearly than the less human a race looks, the less popular it is, as roegadyn aptly demonstrate below with their whopping 4%/6%/4%. The same kind of surveys on other games (like WoW for instance) show similar results. Other options that mix the iconic factor with the sexy/cute/handsome factor are obviously where the money is for SE. If they even care to implement a new race at all at this point, that is, which definitely is not a given. And by "this point" I mean two years down the line, when the game will be even more mature and requiring more "aids" to retain subscriptions and create new ones.

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tekitou_m...4/c4f3ca8d.jpg

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Originally Posted by Abriael

-snip-

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Don't rain on others parade just because you don't agree.
Just let people enjoy and wish for what they want.
Or are you gonna tell them about Santa aswell?

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Don't rain on others parade just because you don't agree.
Just let people enjoy and wish for what they want.
Or are you gonna tell them about Santa aswell?

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Sorry (not sorry) to rain on your parade, but this is a discussion forum. The "general discussion" at the top of the page should be enough of a hint for you to understand that it's made for discussion. If you want to express your wishes without anyone discussing them (and that includes negative discussion), a blog or a tumblr with locked comments are what you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

All instances of the census show extremely clearly than the less human a race looks, the less popular it is, as roegadyn aptly demonstrate below with their whopping 4%/6%/4%. The same kind of surveys on other games (like WoW for instance) show similar results. Other options that mix the iconic factor with the sexy/cute/handsome factor are obviously where the money is for SE. If they even care to implement a new race at all at this point, that is, which definitely is not a given. And by "this point" I mean two years down the line, when the game will be even more mature and requiring more "aids" to retain subscriptions and create new ones.

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Yet the last races added to WoW were werewolf, goblin and a big panda. You know why? Because they realized that the "pretty/human" base was already over-served. As a game dev myself, I would consider it a waste of resources to invest more in an already over-served segment of the player base. Attracting players that have not been catered to would be a way more wise investment of my time and resources. However, it also has to be a skeleton that can easily get gear migration from other races and wear helmets with little or no modification.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You're mistaking the same few people posting on this kind of thread over and over with some kind of mass. This is a common mistake, but still a mistake.

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I would say that knife cuts both ways. Few people posting against it over and over on this kind of thread are not a real opposition either.

Personally, the current races need more options. I rather they focus the resources on giving us more options and then think about adding a new race.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Sorry (not sorry) to rain on your parade, but this is a discussion forum. The "general discussion" at the top of the page should be enough of a hint for you to understand that it's made for discussion. If you want to express your wishes without anyone discussing them (and that includes negative discussion), a blog or a tumblr with locked comments are what you're looking for.

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Same thing can be said about the Viera thread. When people try to Discuss about why they don't want it they are wrong in doing so.
So why is it OK to want something but not OK to want something else? That's all I'm trying to say.
Let people want what they want.