How's BLM looking?

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Actually I'm not so sure about that,

In heavy mechanics or movement fights I don't and can't even use Enochian. The other day I decided to just refresh a bit since I haven't been playing much over the last few days.

So I just did an Expert Roulette. Went really smooth through Baelsar's Wall, destroyed the other boss mobs like they were nothing... but then came the Ilberd fight... It was so bad I stopped even trying after a certain point and just ran with normal BLM damage with Fire I's and Procs.

And that doesn't even include some of the really intensive stuff like Sophia Ex or some of the Alex Raids.

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That says more about your skill level than anything. I use my SMN gear when I play BLM (sub-600 SS after factoring in different weapon) and could maintain Enochian in savage raids and extreme primals without much issue. Even back when all we had was Gordias, I never found Enochian hard to manage with mechanics. The harder thing was making sure not to let Astral Fire drop off while handling mechanics because I was trying to squeeze out Fire 4s.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

I'm only comparing BLM and SMN because they are the two magical DPS classes...

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So you'd have no issue having absolute garbage sub 300 single target DPS as long as you beat BLM's? That's silly thinking. Balance is all about the relations between the classes and how compositions piece together, not just a personal rivalry with another caster class.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Did it ever occur to you that's more like a bait and switch... sell them one thing, then snatch it and replace it with something completely different?

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That sounds like a conspiracy theory- tinfoil hat type stuff. SE has literally (literally) nothing to gain from players playing SMN or BLM. They don't make money off you equipping a staff or a book.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

It's just pointless rearranging for the sake of rearranging.

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I'd bet an arm and a leg you wouldn't be on a tirade if the pointless rearranging for the sake of rearranging put your class (SMN) leaps and bounds above where it was at.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

juicier AoE game from quad flares

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Correct me if I'm wrong but casting Flare removes all your umbral hearts. So it may be just the old rotation + Fowl if it's up, and you won't need to mess about with convert (Probably not worth emptying your MP pool with a 2nd Flare because of the further AoE nerf).

Although I'm sure someone smarter than me already has AoE figured out.

Though hearts made flare have an actual no cost. Rather than remaining mana

It reduces Flare MP cost by one third. So I'm guessing use it at the end of your AoE rotation and you'll still have enough for Blizzard III left over.

with convert and a ether you can quad instant flare by also using triplecast and wsiftcast
pentaflare with lucid dream I suppose

Ilberd fight is not hard at all to maintain enochian (and other fights) Aetherial Manipulation is your friend and just continue on your merry way.
I have not read overly much about blm yet as i always love to practice multiple rotations and figure out for myself :)
Am loving the triple casting and finally an aoe thunder :>

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

So it may be just the old rotation + Fowl if it's up.

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This has nothing to do with anything, but it makes me giggle a little whenever I see that slip. I rather imagine the target being assailed with a massive roast turkey.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

You know your writing style... is remarkably similar to Neela's... and I don't mean content wise... kinda suspicious to me.

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This is a low brow attempt to discredit someone, if youre fishing to really do it back it up with real evidence.

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That said... What Planet are you living on...

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Earth maybe youve heard of it?

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I don't hear any Summoner asking for BLM single target level damage... I only see them asking for their normal damage back... and see no reason for a nerf.

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Their normal damage WAS near blm level damage, the fact you dnt even know this tells me everything i need to know.

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Especially with Black Mage being unlocked in the Single target damage and no longer locked behind Enochian and restoring their mobility, and getting a boost to AoE damage.

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We were never locked behind enochian, AF3 was more damaging than enochian was and if i have to explain why that only tells me everything else about you.

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I don't know where you are getting that idea.

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You whining and fear mongering over the last few weeks?
[/QUOTE]

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And if you thought SMN damage was god like compared to BLM... then its more likely a problem with the way you play BLM... not because of any Summoner.

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If you think it wasnt then you definitely were not playing smn that well

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Originally Posted by Neela

Yay psy and I are the same person, your arguments are to tough for me and my follower xserver fc that I use 2 accs now - cmn really? xD
Im more curious where your blm buddy with a postcounter of 16 came out of nowhere claiming the same bs u do since weeks.... *mystery*

You two are really funny guys :3

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actually yeah kinda weird that another poster with only 16 posts, claiming the same exact things as ol boy over here right after he claimed that you could switch accounts to back yourself up.

which is childish.

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Originally Posted by Semmi

That says more about your skill level than anything. I use my SMN gear when I play BLM (sub-600 SS after factoring in different weapon) and could maintain Enochian in savage raids and extreme primals without much issue. Even back when all we had was Gordias, I never found Enochian hard to manage with mechanics. The harder thing was making sure not to let Astral Fire drop off while handling mechanics because I was trying to squeeze out Fire 4s.

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thats the real truth of the matter, it was never enoch it was AF getting beamed by mechanics. Even then if you had a patient group youd learn and ease into never losing or knowing when to stop it short.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

I'm confused. Are you arguing about BLM or SMN. I'm saying giving SMN more without ever taking anything is power creep. BLM has paid it's dues in 3.x. The 2 jobs are seperate, and the balance between them is a bit more dynamic than up and down.

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he doesnt understand, ive been saying that smn got it all for free since hw.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Flare got nerfed to the ground.

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called it.

i knew those tool tips werent going to let blm have a 30% max DR and everyone else gets 50%+

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

actually yeah kinda weird that another poster with only 16 posts, claiming the same exact things as ol boy over here right after he claimed that you could switch accounts to back yourself up.

which is childish.

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he's childish ever since...

he probably noticed that nobody ever agreed on anything he ever posted. starting to insult characters, imputing people dont know what they are talking about although they talk bout their mains or even they havent played their cls at all, imputing people follow him in every thread just to pick a fight cause they would be obssesed by him, followed by imputing to call out friends until using different forum accs to backup themselves, replying with sensless bla which is total irrelevant to the topic/current discussions points cause he dont know what to say else -> only shows that for him it's not about to share/discuss or learn something in this community but just to have the biggest one out of all. enough for me. should be enough for everybody else as well... but however...

Still sitting on Marbellas beach unable to login myself until the 21th -> i wish all of u a lot of fun with the early access <3 looking forward what you guys find out in the first few days :3

Is this gonna end up being the 4.0 BLM thread, or should I dig up the proper one?

I'm still only at the end of ARR, so most changes don't seem like they'll hit me, and I can at least sorta just learn the new mechanics as they come, rather than relearning. Might make educating via guides a little troublesome.

Just looking for a little clarification to at least keep myself in decent shape where I'm at, until I get a better grasp on all the changes.

Thunder: Instead of casting Thunder I and using procs for Thunder III, it's basically all Thunder III now? Or Thunder II for mass trash I suppose?
AoE: Can't really do anything about potency loss, so Fire II and Flare still standard for AoE?

Sounds like most of the bigger changes are all post-50, so I at least have a little while before I need to adjust, which I hope won't be too bad going in fresh. Mildly upset that Sleep doesn't AoE, but no big deal I guess.

Tug up the old sanctuary

Also yes t3 took t1s spot and t2-4 is for aoe

Much obliged. Think I'll hunker down on BLM until the dust settles. Sounds like things are mostly unchanged for me.

BLM lost the ability to cure with physic, but got the ability to erase party members (not self). We got drain to cure ourselves, but that can only be done during a battle...

Usage of transpose sometimes kills the enochain buff...

Not happy with these changes...

Either something is wrong or I'm just confused about how BLM works now. One of my characters is only 44 BLM, and Blizzard III is a lvl 40 skill, but it's greyed out like I can't use it on the skills list. Also, when I try to use it, because it's still on my hotbar, it says I haven't learned it yet. What's the deal? Any idea?

I've got a bit of a problem tracking Enochian. My gauge is missing the ticker/clockhand part of the Enochian countdown as seen in this vid and the Enochian buff no longer shows up. I basically have to try and estimate the countdown. Also, my Fire and Ice stacks were removed as buffs as well - I would like the options to use the gauge, use the gauge and buff icons or just use buff icons... especially when the gauge doesn't appear to be working correctly.

I think you don't get the "timer" part until level 70 when you actually get Foul. Enochian just stays active as long as you don't drop astral/umbral so no need to track it before 70, really.

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Originally Posted by Muchmidget

I think you don't get the "timer" part until level 70 when you actually get Foul. Enochian just stays active as long as you don't drop astral/umbral so no need to track it before 70, really.

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Honestly I haven't had time to try out the new BLM,

But I suspect now I'll be spending all my time on this job rather than just a portion of it.

I looked at the interface and it was kinda hinky, not as easy to grasp at first glance. I'll have to do more work with it.

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Originally Posted by Muchmidget

I think you don't get the "timer" part until level 70 when you actually get Foul. Enochian just stays active as long as you don't drop astral/umbral so no need to track it before 70, really.

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Interesting... so the diminishing return of Enochian has had the former effect of "Each time Enochian is overwritten, duration is reduced by 5 seconds." removed, yet Transpose will wipe it. I find it super strange that detailed class changes weren't listed in patch notes. [Edit] I was just advised to go check out the official job guide posted today, so I'm gonna check that out for all the classes!

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Originally Posted by Mimiki

yet Transpose will wipe it

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That happened to me too a couple of times while i was out in the field. However when i went back to my striking dummy i was able to use transpose without wiping out enochain. I have absolutely no clue why and when it will wipe eno out... It is super confusing right now.

Transpose wiping it is a glitch, ive sustained enoch with transpose for well into heavy pulls without it wiping.

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Originally Posted by Muchmidget

I think you don't get the "timer" part until level 70 when you actually get Foul. Enochian just stays active as long as you don't drop astral/umbral so no need to track it before 70, really.

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Ah, that explains a lot, I was about to question why I couldn't track it properly too.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Mimiki

Interesting... so the diminishing return of Enochian has had the former effect of "Each time Enochian is overwritten, duration is reduced by 5 seconds." removed, yet Transpose will wipe it. I find it super strange that detailed class changes weren't listed in patch notes. [Edit] I was just advised to go check out the official job guide posted today, so I'm gonna check that out for all the classes!

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I've been looking at that, but I suspect I'll only get to see the full deal once I get to a Training Dummy with it.

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Originally Posted by Kyouki

BLM lost the ability to cure with physic, but got the ability to erase party members (not self). We got drain to cure ourselves, but that can only be done during a battle...

Usage of transpose sometimes kills the enochain buff...

Not happy with these changes...

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The loss of heals really bothers me. I hate playing classes/jobs/games where I can't self heal. Any suggestions on a ranged dps class that can actually self heal?

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Originally Posted by Ashikuro

The loss of heals really bothers me. I hate playing classes/jobs/games where I can't self heal. Any suggestions on a ranged dps class that can actually self heal?

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Probably the red mage.

Yeah Enochian does work a little bit differently...

Its still the same basic principle, do your Fire III, the hit Enochian, then hit Fire 4s with the Fire I on occasion to refresh your stacks quick, then Bliz 3, Bliz 4, then F3 back to F4s.

I just didn't think you'd have to turn it on first, I had thought it was supposed to be always on.

Still no timer for expiration anymore, just maintaining your stacks.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Yeah Enochian does work a little bit differently...

Its still the same basic principle, do your Fire III, the hit Enochian, then hit Fire 4s with the Fire I on occasion to refresh your stacks quick, then Bliz 3, Bliz 4, then F3 back to F4s.

I just didn't think you'd have to turn it on first, I had thought it was supposed to be always on.

Still no timer for expiration anymore, just maintaining your stacks.

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Actually, look at how Umbral hearts work, it is best to do bliz3, eno-chan, thunder 3, bliz 4, fire 3 (sharpcast seems to remove enochian atm it seems for me), fire 4 to use the umbral hearts up, fire 1 where you should have 3 seconds left. After that, I am not sure whether or not to continue doing fire 4s and fire 1 to keep Astril fire 3 up until you have no mana left. convert is obviously in there as well.

Transpose wiping Enochian is likely because of latency, what with the servers being under as much pressure as they are. The best thing to do would be to not wait until the very last second to swap. Granted, that's still not a guarantee, but do what we can, right?

Honestly, I kind of misunderstood how Enochian would work when we heard the news and I have to say I'm kind of disappointed with the actual implementation. For exactly such reasons as stated above, it's actually harder for me now to maintain it than before. Before, if Astral Fire dropped, I still had a window of opportunity to get into Umbral Ice and refresh Enochian. There were diminishing returns on the refresh timer, true, but Enochian staying up regardless of AF/UI actually made it a lot more forgiving, imo.
Nothing a little practice won't solve, and because of the disconnections I've focused more on my crafting than my battle classes so it's still at level 60, but still.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

Actually, look at how Umbral hearts work, it is best to do bliz3, eno-chan, thunder 3, bliz 4, fire 3 (sharpcast seems to remove enochian atm it seems for me), fire 4 to use the umbral hearts up, fire 1 where you should have 3 seconds left. After that, I am not not to continue doing fire 4s and fire 1 to keep Astril fire 3 up until you have no mana left. convert is obviously in there as well.

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I did try that, its surprisingly effective.

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Originally Posted by Ashikuro

The loss of heals really bothers me. I hate playing classes/jobs/games where I can't self heal. Any suggestions on a ranged dps class that can actually self heal?

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Drain is surprisingly effective, imo. Moreso than Physick ever was. In a desperate situation where I tried to keep myself alive with Physick, it would only delay the inevitable. Spamming Drain seems to be enough to actually get me back into safe territory, unless I'm just overwhelmed by several mobs (which Physick never would've helped with either).

This limited experience is only from a mildly difficult FATE, though, may not be an accurate representation. But, personally, it feels better. Physick scales off of Mind anyway, doesn't it? It would be near useless. At least Drain is affected by our main stat.

As for healing others, Erase does heal party members, at least. Mildly disappointing that I can't randomly drive-by heal some newbie struggling, but no big loss.

Fun fact: both T3 and F4 have exactly the same PPS at 163,8 with base cast times.

When u do bliz4, u get those 3 stacks (arrows). Which decrease mp cost of f4 tremendously. So although not best way, I cast fire 3, then fire 4, 3 times then back to bliz3, 4...thunder, back to fire. I know I can get another fire 4,with fire 1 to add to Astral timer. But just easier and reliable not to, so I can keep Enoch going.. Once the lag goes away, I'll see about adding that extra fire. But at least the way I'm doing it, I can keep up Enoch forever... And at least if something bad was to happen during that, and lost Enoch, I still have a decent amount of mp left.

Umbral Heart lets you get off 5 F2 before Flare so that's cool I guess.

1st you can not cast three Flares without convert or a portion, as soon as you flare you lose all the umbra the hearts

2nd smn can double Akmorn

smn and blm will over be very close (besides the pet does damage too), depending on the fight; either smn or blm can come out on top

smn is far less broken than some are suggesting and blm got nerfed too

I'm not entirely sure SMN and BLM will be neck and neck. I mean my SMN is just 64 now, but my RDM at 52 (with the same strength/weapon level) is incredibly burstier in potd. Having all RDMs or atleast 2 has made for the fastest potd runs and boss kills from 51-100. Knowing what it could be like at 60-70 I think there might be more competition between RDM and BLM than with SMN. I'm not 100% yet, but after seeing what RDM is capable of, SMN may need a buff. In potd you have to use tri-disaster all 3 stacks and deathflare to kill one enemy as fast as RDM.

might be but never the less Bahamut (Shockwave & Ahk Morn) will add some serious dmg to your own skill dmg. I think most people underestimate Shockwave... f.e if you ll be able to throw in 10 skills in those 20 secs of adv. trance, Shockwave adds 1600 pot (10x160) + 1560 pot (2x Ahk Morn) on top of the burst skillpots themselves...+10% overall due to Rudas Con... might still not be enough to compete but well... we will see : /

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

I'm not entirely sure SMN and BLM will be neck and neck. I mean my SMN is just 64 now, but my RDM at 52 (with the same strength/weapon level) is incredibly burstier in potd. Having all RDMs or atleast 2 has made for the fastest potdruns and boss kills from 51-100. Knowing what it could be like at 60-70 I think there might be more competition between RDM and BLM than with SMN. I'm not 100% yet, but after seeing what RDM is capable of, SMN may need a buff. In potd you have to use tri-disaster all 3 stacks and deathflare to kill one enemy as fast as RDM.

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Yeah SMN isn't really competitive anymore, but we all knew that from the Tooltips before launch. And playing the thing afterward... It was predictable.

Red Mage shocked me... I did a dungeon run with it through Hullbreaker. I was thinking it was single target only type job too... but Scatter is dual casted its just powerful. At those levels I was burning through multiple mobs the same way I did as BLM with F2s and Flare. I didn't expect that.

I still think BLM will come out on top in Single Target, but now that I've played it, but the fast speedy damage the Red Mage does may well approach it. I did some PoTD too, and my experience was the same as yours.

While I don't have RDM to the same level as BLM and its not really geared at this point... these two are very competitive with each other.

You again... *sigh*

Oh get real... what fantasy world do you live in that makes you think I will ever leave or stop speaking just because YOU don't like it...

Haven't you learned that by now?

The one thing you still don't get is that everybody is expecting things you on the other hand think you know things for sure. Well never mind... your ignorance bores me to hell.