Anyone else feeling a hit to SCH?

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I was talking single target dps, not AoE. Everyone got nerfed AoE except WHM. o3o

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broil doesn't make up enough damage for the two dots we only really get to use. if we kept one other dot or if shadowflare was how it used to be with a higher potency our dps would be okay but as of right now its semi annoying doing solo content as a sch.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

Worse than Secret of the Lily 2? I dunno about that.

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yes i think out of the three healer traits SCH's is the worst out of all of them. As a SCH i am not wasting my aetherflow stacks on engery drain just to recover mana when you don't know if your going to need that for a heal or not.

Excogitation and Fey Union strike me as abilities that were designed and implemented before they decided to do away with cleric stance dancing.
Lagresse doesn't affect half your toolkit or the fairy.
Dissipation somehow didn't get thrown out together with Featherfoot & Co.

I could make more points but my impression of 4.0 Scholar is a mix of 'what are they doing?' and 'this is awful'.

And then the new savage raid comes out, and SCH turns out to be the best main healer, just like DRK did in 3.X.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

And then the new savage raid comes out, and SCH turns out to be the best main healer, just like DRK did in 3.X.

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you have no idea what you are talking about. sch cant main heal for shit, their aoe is the worst, their shield is worse and cost more than ast, fairy got nerfed, ast and whm got buffed on their cure1 benefic1, sch still have the shittiest physiks.
If you are talking about offhealer spot, yes, i think sch will still be better than noc ast for 8man content(just because brd/mch can refresh mp ogcd now and maybe have the caster manashift) but for everything else, literally everything else sch got destroyed.
They can only think about giving sch aetherflow skills but never increasing the number of stacks, never decreasing aetherflow cd, just NERFING the fking mp regen and increasing adlo cost, giving the new skill a 10yalm range... yeah, thats gonna work.

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Originally Posted by Tferr

Excogitation and Fey Union strike me as abilities that were designed and implemented before they decided to do away with cleric stance dancing.
Lagresse doesn't affect half your toolkit or the fairy.
Dissipation somehow didn't get thrown out together with Featherfoot & Co.

I could make more points but my impression of 4.0 Scholar is a mix of 'what are they doing?' and 'this is awful'.

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Excogitation seems designed specifically when thinking of all those raiding moments when a tank buster hits and then is immediately followed by another buster or an auto-attack, the latter of which can sometimes crit. Alexander Prime's buster was a good example of this, as well as the ones from Manipulator and Brute Justice who had similar, if not worse, mechanics, including multi-hit busters in the spirit of Bahamut's Akh Morn (which is another good example).

Largesse is an unfortunate addition most SCH's didn't want but should quickly get used to using if having difficulty. Since there is no Cure II, any time you find yourself needing to spam physick, either for moments when both tanks are taking heavy damage like Brute Justice bot phase or in a dungeon run with a lot of mobs punishing lesser geared tanks (see dungeons level 65+), then you will want to consider Largesse to keep up, especially if whispering dawn isn't available (since it's only 21 seconds every 60). It's not ideal and it's certainly not an aspect of play SCHs probably wanted given it pushes us even closer to WHM playstyle, but it's more responsive than illumination (which was nerfed anyway) and not as punishing as dissipation.

I'll form an opinion on Fey Union when I get it, though I'm currently gated by instance server issues preventing the MSQ from continuing. >_>;

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Originally Posted by Azell

you have no idea what you are talking about.

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Alot of the complaints regarding SCH and WHM right now are synonymous with those that were leveled at DRK at the start of 3.X, with them seeming to lack anything desirable in comparison to the other tanks beyond a bit more deeps.

Then Savage hit and DRK's were the best tank by far to take them on. If you don't see the correlation,then you're willingly blinding yourself.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Alot of the complaints regarding SCH and WHM right now are synonymous with those that were leveled at DRK at the start of 3.X, with them seeming to lack anything desirable in comparison to the other tanks beyond a bit more deeps.

Then Savage hit and DRK's were the best tank by far to take them on. If you don't see the correlation,then you're willingly blinding yourself.

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Let's go ahead and give this some serious thought. I mean there's a few possibilities here, isn't there?

DRK had a lot of anti-magic mitigation compared to PLD's physical mitigation, and Gordias/Midas were not only chock full of magic tank busters (lasers), but strict DPS checks where their better DPS supplanted poor PLDs. WAR was of course a shoo-in for off-tank due to their overwhelming DPS potential, of course.

The only possible correlation I can think of is a situation where periodic infirmity debuffs are applied, or effects similar to Ramuh's anti-heal applications occur that would necessitate more frequent use of ability heals than WHM's cooldown timers allow. Back in Ramuh's day SCH were the king of bypassing infirmity due to lustrate being an unmitigatable percentage heal, but they're not as dominant in this field anymore with lustrate as a flar potency, and the other healer classes have gained their own abilities with tetra, assize, and bene (the only percentage heal currently) on WHM and AST's tetra equivalent and the new Earthly Star, though SCH's three uses a minute can be made into six every two minutes with dissipation, so if there is an excessive infirmity mechanic where that ability can help bypass an otherwise annoying mechanic, then SCH might find themselves in DRK's desired shoes. Alternatively silence debuffs, since abilities can't be silenced.

Alternatively maybe a constant mana-wipe effect like the faust adds during Manipulator. Being able to save Aetherize for it was very useful, though with the nerf and Assize's matching of its cooldown and mana return this is no longer SCH's niche save, though the aetherize stacks costing no mana gives them a minor edge for healing with no mana, at least temporarily.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Alot of the complaints regarding SCH and WHM right now are synonymous with those that were leveled at DRK at the start of 3.X, with them seeming to lack anything desirable in comparison to the other tanks beyond a bit more deeps.

Then Savage hit and DRK's were the best tank by far to take them on. If you don't see the correlation,then you're willingly blinding yourself.

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This is actually the main reason why I'm holding off all complaints about worthlessness. Until we hit level 70, we don't have our full kit, and endgame determines all.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

This is actually the main reason why I'm holding off all complaints about worthlessness. Until we hit level 70, we don't have our full kit, and endgame determines all.

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It's pretty obvious it's going to be terrible. Our hope rides solely on Chain Strategem. If that debuff to enemy's crit resistance is anything but bordering on OP, SCH is going to struggle like hell. SCH is the only healer to lose healing potency. We get more aetherflow abilities but no additional aetherflow stacks nor a CD reduction. Doing the math, Quickened Aetherflow (which is completely garbage) lowers Aetherflow's CD to about 52 seconds over a 12 minute period. That's terrible. Excog is just bad. It is just a slightly improved lustrate. It is 100% designed to be Aetherflow fodder when you have that last stack and a refresh is coming up. Broil 2 is whatever. Fey Union will likely be solid but the 10y range is pathetic. Everything rides on Chain Strategem.

Imo we shouldn't wait to be lvmax for enjoying our job, before all these modifications i enjoyed sch even when i was in a capped area.

I enjoyed it too when i was fighting alone.

But it's not the case anymore, there is a problem.

And i don't like those actions we all share. We use all the same actions at the end. It's a fake choice of custimisation.

They remooved a lot of skills instead of adding some (and interesting ones!) for what? Cause it's easier for players who use a controller?

Idc what anyone says, as a scholar dedicated to this job since 2.0 this expansion is a slap in the face! Our synergy is completely gone. We are now completely forced to take the mana refresh role ability or risk going completely dry in content since adlo also now costs so much (a completely stupid change) and aetherflow doesn't recover much of any mana now, excog is bad, aetherpact seems underwhelming so far and the range is bad, passive is almost not even noticeable, ran a dungeon and could barely keep the tank up without largesse much less get enough time to substantially dps! What 4.0 did to sch is almost criminal. Will we be ok in raid? Yes should be fine. Are we in a good spot? no not at all!

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

This is actually the main reason why I'm holding off all complaints about worthlessness. Until we hit level 70, we don't have our full kit, and endgame determines all.

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Let's recap on recent events, shall we?

- Tooltips for new abilities are released, nigh community Armageddon ensues: "Guys, guys. They are still making changes up to the release. Lets wait for the official patch notes."

- Official patch notes and updated tooltips released, WHM abbreviation changed to, "Why Maige?" while massive SCH nerfs go mostly unnoticed: "Everyone calm down, we have to play the content to see for sure how things go."

- Early access and patch 4.0 released, everyone finally realizes how much SCH sucks now: "Get to 70. Endgame determines all."

So if endgame doesn't save SCH, what's next? Wait for the next patch? The next expansion? More importantly, why on Earth should SCHs suffer through ten levels to reach content they very well may not even make it into at this point? The way the job plays now, how confident are you that there will even be anywhere near the same amount of endgame SCHs in SB as there was in HW? Go on believing endgame determines everything though. That's how the devs are thinking too. Look at how happy everyone is :/

As a SCH I haven't had much issue yet, but everyone keeps telling me that changes in instances 65+. Thing is I'm not there yet, so I can't weigh-in, but up until where I'm at overworld leveling as SCH has been alright. Lucid Dreaming is probably a requirement for dungeons, but early dungeon running has been fine. Using Eos isn't a surprise given low gear levels and it being expansion release (HW was the same), and the biggest problem so far has been unlearning Cleric Stance muscle memory (this is hard). Physick wasn't nerfed, it's still the same as always, and the fairy is healing at about the same ratio at my level as it did at the beginning of HW (ie, 30% less effective potency than the SCH's), though I still don't really understand the reason for that (why isn't 250 potency actually 250 potency?). Also you can't use adlo much anymore on bosses due to mana issues, which is... well, we'll see how it goes. >_>;

But healing itself is largely unchanged, at least so far. The instant dungeon queues are nice, though.

I hit 70, and did a write up.

I'm not impressed with our kit.

The Bane nerf, the loss of a dot and aero. Having to learn to use Refresh. It sucks.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Let's recap on recent events, shall we?

- Tooltips for new abilities are released, nigh community Armageddon ensues: "Guys, guys. They are still making changes up to the release. Lets wait for the official patch notes."

- Official patch notes and updated tooltips released, WHM abbreviation changed to, "Why Maige?" while massive SCH nerfs go mostly unnoticed: "Everyone calm down, we have to play the content to see for sure how things go."

- Early access and patch 4.0 released, everyone finally realizes how much SCH sucks now: "Get to 70. Endgame determines all."

So if endgame doesn't save SCH, what's next? Wait for the next patch? The next expansion? More importantly, why on Earth should SCHs suffer through ten levels to reach content they very well may not even make it into at this point? The way the job plays now, how confident are you that there will even be anywhere near the same amount of endgame SCHs in SB as there was in HW? Go on believing endgame determines everything though. That's how the devs are thinking too. Look at how happy everyone is :/

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I really only say that because when I was healing a few level 60 dungeons as SCH I was having no problems with MP or keeping the tank up. Then again, I've been doing it with my FC, so that may invalidate the difficulties. I'm not level 65 on it yet at least, I'm concentrating on my MNK first since I both DPS and heal (depending on what the raid party needs at that moment).

Today I went into the new level 61 dungeon, absent-mindedly forgetting to re-read the changes to my class that I've played as my main since ARR. (And if it had been in 1.0 I'd have played it too tbh.)
Halfway through the last boss, I was already out of mana. I can't even begin to get into how vividly ticked off I am at these changes, but it breaks my heart that I'm even considering rerolling to Red Mage just because of how badly my main's been boned.

Stance-dancing to deal damage and coming back into heal mode to pop off heals on your dying tanks was one of the best feelings I could get from this class. The not-so-complex complexity of jumping back and forth, managing different aspects of the fight, making sure everybody was okay while maximizing everything you had to give...man. How could anybody not enjoy that?
These days everything feels so...dumbed down. It's absolutely painful. Who thought this was a good idea?

As a sch I really cannot DPS anymore due to mana issues . They need to fix sch. I leveled all 3 healers because I had a feeling they were going to nerf sch into the ground. And They Did :( I used to love playing my sch but no more . Since I started leveling it I will finish what I started then Put my Sch on the shelf until they are fixed.

;_; I am really sad to hear this. SCH was my other love next to AST so I'm sad to see all these nerfs and issues. I loved DPSing with them. It unfortunate to hear how lackluster it is now with all these changes and hopefully it will be rectified soon.

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Originally Posted by Loki

Cause it's easier for players who use a controller?

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As a controller player I can tell you i was able to fit all of my skills on my bar and never had an issue... I even had the fairy skills set on my bar since the pet bar itself couldnt be altered, i only really use it to place the fairy.

As for the healing of Embrace, at max level 60 she was healing for 2700-2900 on average, while Physick was 5400-5900, so she was about half of our Physick heal. So reducing her potency I can understand, now Embrace is 2200-2500, about 500 less from what it was. She is technically a free Regen, but she can only heal one player at a time. And the last time I checked the new buff skills we have access to dont buff her, so we are at a loss because we only have 3 skills the buffs work one.

I hope SE realizes that they made SCH to be an off healee, whicj is fine and great. Thats why we had a good DPS tool kit (ARN deviation aside), thats why we had higher MP costs on some skills, thats why we had gated skills, because if our kit was like WHM or AST then we would be OP. At the end of HW each healer was good and had their niches set, AST even finally found theres. All they needed to do was expand upon that. You added it to AST, great. WHM is more or less the same with a tacked on gauge... fun? But SCH, you got rid of our individuality we are basically a less effective WHM with a nat flying around us healing one person at a time.

Oh and by proxy SMN got screwed too, now it's Ruin spam fir days. Talk about consolidation 4 Ruins now. Here's an idea similar to Thunder 2 and 4, Ruin 2 is now an AoE and gets replaced by Ruin 4 when in Dreadwyrm Trance. How does that sound, minorly solves both jobs dilema... minorly.

Good thing I leveled all healers to 60 ) I am going to use the astro For the time being. I will wait for them to fix Sch. (cries and covers the coffin) I am currently leveling the RDM and having fun with it. (Pulls Astro out of back pocket). I was so used to sch it's like a death in the family! Did any of the Dev team actually play these classes all the way through or beta tested it ? What a crying shame.

Few poeple in my FC are 70 sch and said the fairy Teather is MEH. They are currently leveling RDM or Sam. Now there will be more of a lack of healers. WTG SE

I am 70 SCH, Fairy Tether is MEH indeed. It takes a few minutes to actually start the effect. And It has to be close to the tank to actually cast. so half of the time if the tank is spinning around, it kills her off the bat. Also not sure if this was intended but if you sac pet for healing, the fairy power you built up is at 0. While if fairy dies on their own, they come back with aether power np. so hmmm

I have been levelling my scholar (currently just shy of level 68) and white mage (just hit level 65).

I loved playing scholar since ARR, it seemed to be such a well-designed job and their skills had a lot of synergy. I feel the scholar in stormblood is exceptionally boring to play. Even the white mage's lilly mechanics is more more interesting.

White mage has insane dps potential now, especially with accuracy being removed - yet why do their dots still have their initial damage? The fact that lilly's can reduce the CD for assize/ asylum means you have free heals (or dps) more often and can refresh mp regularly. White mage now has great heals, the best dps of all three healers and the best mp management out of all three healers - with assize, lucid dreaming and thin air. Assize being up every 46s or so due to lillies makes it even more valuable as its a free aoe heal/dps and mp recovery tool.

Although my white mage is not level 70 it seems a lot of their skills do not require mp but may require management of confessions and lillies at level 70 (which seems better than scholars aertherflow stacks, because you can get lillies quite easily). So their skills are mostly tied behind cd's which can be reduced with lillies, so there is an underlying game mechanic where there is a low-level of strategy. Later skills have a much shorter cd (i.e. Plenary Indulgence's 15s, which is effectively a free heal on the tank).

Honestly the new cross-role system has not helped scholar much, and the further nerfs to their skills (i.e. embrace) is not helping it out either. The Largesse cross role skill does not benefit the fairy. Eye for an Eye ties in with our deployment tactics skill.

I find most of scholars level 60+ skills to be very mediocre. Furthermore, Dissipation should be changed to be more useful - it should restore mp on top of giving aetherflow stacks and maybe even re-summon our fairy OR summon/switch to the other fairy.

I think the stormblood scholar is a big mess right now. It is more than receiving nerfs to skills / potency reductions to embrace etc - the job just doesn't feel very fun to play. I just have a feeling that SE has no idea what to do with the healers anymore.

I think scholar is the 3.0 ast of of 4.0 (maybe not as bad as 3.0 ast) but not sure if it is going to receive much attention because there is a stigma in the community that has this idea that scholars are OP (and maybe in ARR they were), but I think the playing field levelled out a little in HW and what was seen as OP was imo just a greater synergy with all their skills and other classes didn't really have that synergy. Granted they had the best mp management of all 3 healers - but that title has to go to white mage now.

I agre with above post. I feel like Dissipation should have been sac pet -> animation with fairy wings on back, but essentially she returns after use, re-summoning her is a pain in the ass, and hurts you more than helps

It would be interesting if dissipation was a fairy swap. Or if get a fairy swap ability. Basically use one fairy's cooldowns, then an ability to freely swap to the other one when you need the other fairy's abilities. They would have to separate cooldown timers between the fairies though.

Fairy tether is pretty meh. It builds too slow and is used too fast, and as the tank moves around the tether breaks.

Exocog is also pretty meh. It needs more potency or to not use a AF stack, because right now I feel lustrate is more useful.

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Originally Posted by szarina

Good thing I leveled all healers to 60 ) I am going to use the astro For the time being. I will wait for them to fix Sch. (cries and covers the coffin) I am currently leveling the RDM and having fun with it. (Pulls Astro out of back pocket). I was so used to sch it's like a death in the family! Did any of the Dev team actually play these classes all the way through or beta tested it ? What a crying shame.

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I have AST leveled, but not WHM. (Which is inconvient. WHM is actually looking pretty darn good on paper at the moment, so I want to give it a spin.)

But either way, yes. SCH is dead for the time being.

fey union..basically if you NEED to heal your party. fey union is the last in the priority list of abilities you will want to use. if it was a super steroid 800 potency heal over time I can see it being situationally worthwhile to use. but it\\\\'s just a weak Psychik that can miss and also drains your fairy gauge when your party member moves 10y away

verdict: I was looking forward to the possibility of a rewarding gameplay using fey union but the combination of clunky controls, WEAK potency, and limited use makes it worth less for the amount the effort you put into its micro management.

tldr: build up your fairy gauge. use it on the tank during aoe and burst phases then forget about it. if you think you can micro manage your fairy to use the union on anyone other than your stationary tank, good luck. in between your party members running out of range and its relatively weak heal, youre better of using "Psyhik" and "Embrace+allyourfairysabilities" instead.

38% rotten tomato

Fey union sucks, dissipation sucks, dps nerf, aldo cost too much mp, mp management sucks, hmmm, sch sucks?

The thing i find most odd is they have the gauge bit it only works on that one skill. But the other gauges they added were retroactively made to work on older skills; not sure what skills they would be... but like come on. Ironically the gauge works in PvP. Basically, they made PvP way better... bit tge made PvE much worse.