Lackluster Graphics in FFXIV

For me, graphics is really not a Final Fantasy, that's all.

Good character but empty landscape, it's not really beautifull

Wow, Abigail... just.... wow.....

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Every single option has to be coded, implemented and even more tested. Every single option can lead to problems, glitches and crashes. That's why software houses don't implement every single option.

They have to draw a line, simply because development resources are limited.
So they will give you a *range* of options, and in fact FFXIV's engine is quite scalable, but they will basically never give them all.

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Sure, obviously there has to be development time allotted to create all the different options, but that's not a valid argument against adding options, especially in an MMO. These days people expect PC games, especially MMOs, to provide a wealth of customization and options to the player.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Sure, obviously there has to be development time allotted to create all the different options, but that's not a valid argument against adding options, especially in an MMO. These days people expect PC games, especially MMOs, to provide a wealth of customization and options to the player.

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Did you not notice that this game has a rather extensive configuration program, backed up but another configuration menu in game (which is something I personally don't like, by the way, as a single configuration menu is a much better option)?

The engine is not really less scalable than most, and offers a pretty standard range of options. Quite enough for me to manage to run the game perfectly on my gaming computer, and still play it on my extremely antiquated number 2, with most options off or minimized.

This without mentioning that most MMORPGs launch with a limited range of options (often more limited than FFXIV), and add more down the line.

OMG is this topic still going on?
How much can Belgianrofl fail in a single day?

http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.c.../03/az_leo.jpg
VS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2..._zero/Beta.jpg

Final Fantasy XIV picture is not even on High settings, AKA Belgianrofl's point = Destroyed.

Game, set, match.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

This without mentioning that most MMORPGs launch with a limited range of options (often more limited than FFXIV), and add more down the line.

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So then can we agree that water reflections and shadows should be added as a configuration option sometime down the line?

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

So then can we agree that water reflections and shadows should be added as a configuration option sometime down the line?

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I sure wouldn't be opposed to that, when the hardware will have evolved enough to run the game at an acceptable level of detail with those options on. If to turn those on even people with the most powerful PCs have to crank half the game down, then it's useless to implement them, and it's better that they use their development resources to implement things that everyone can enjoy.

Spending development resources needs to be justified by usage. Between options that can be enjoyed only by few and options that can be enjoyed by everyone, the second should pretty much always take priority.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

OMG is this topic still going on?
How much can Belgianrofl fail in a single day?

http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.c.../03/az_leo.jpg
VS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2..._zero/Beta.jpg

Final Fantasy XIV picture is not even on High settings, AKA Belgianrofl's point = Destroyed.

Game, set, match.

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Would you please read the original post? Your addition to the thread is waay off topic. Also, we've already established that the polygons in FFXIV are nice. It's the misuse of lighting technology that makes the game look shotty. Compare the 2005 FFXIV Tech Demo with what it is today. The technology is available... just add it to the game....

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I sure wouldn't be opposed to that, when the hardware will have evolved enough to run the game at an acceptable level of detail with those options on. If to turn those on even people with the most powerful PCs have to crank half the game down, then it's useless to implement them, and it's better that they use their development resources to implement things that everyone can enjoy.

Spending development resources needs to be justified by usage. Between options that can be enjoyed only by few and options that can be enjoyed by everyone, the second should pretty much always take priority.

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The problem with your argument is that there are currently options available in the game that tax the system waay more than they should considering the actual effect the option gives.

The argument you keep avoiding is that there are technologies that will make the game look a lot more realistic, and tax the system waaay less than the current maxed-options already in place.

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Would you please read the original post? Your addition to the thread is waay off topic. Also, we've already established that the polygons in FFXIV are nice. It's the misuse of lighting technology that makes the game look shotty. Compare the 2005 FFXIV Tech Demo with what it is today. The technology is available... just add it to the game....

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What? Can't hear you over the wrong title you gave this thread!
I think you say you lost because your argument is not valid?

You said something about an FFXIV tech demo in 2005?
Failed again, this one is looking far better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC51...7066312881D834

Meleena, the 2005 tech-demo was not a showcase of pre-rendered CGI cinematics. It was real-time in-game footage showcasing SE's engine... but that was 5 years ago... what happened since then?

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Meleena, the 2005 tech-demo was not a showcase of pre-rendered CGI cinematics. It was real-time in-game footage showcasing SE's engine... but that was 5 years ago... what happened since then?

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I dont know what are you talking about, I didnt see any playable content in that video back then and I dont see any playable content in the video I gave right now.
Until you can prove to me that somehow what they showed back then was playable you have no point.

Keep entertaining me please.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I dont know what are you talking about, I didnt see any playable content in that video back then and I dont see any playable content in the video I gave right now.
Until you can prove to me that somehow what they showed back then was playable you have no point.

Keep entertaining me please.

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It's like a cutscene in Final Fantasy XI. You can't play the cutscene, but it sure as hell ain't pre-rendered CGI Cinematics.

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It's like a cutscene in Final Fantasy XI. You can't play the cutscene, but it sure as hell ain't pre-rendered CGI Cinematics.

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Cutscenes are nice in FFXIV too, go see the Ifrit cutscene on rank 36 mission where the fire looks completely real and the Judge cutscene fight in rank 46 mission.

Still no point in your comments, since youre comparing a video to actual gameplay content.
Anything else you wanted to add?

I, for one, absolutely love graphics of FFXIV. I think they are beautiful, colorful and very atmospheric.

I think that the sky palettes and HDR effects are the absolute best I've ever seen in any game - sets a real example on how to do HDR effects properly. Eats Crysis for breakfast - in terms of sky effects etc.

I LOVE XIV graphics it's the visual design of the fields that lacks any imagination whatsoever.

How about you add some of that fantasy in this Final Fantasy game SE?

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Originally Posted by Seif

I LOVE XIV graphics it's the visual design of the fields that lacks any imagination whatsoever.

How about you add some of that fantasy in this Final Fantasy game SE?

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^ this is the problem.

You could have the worlds best artist draw a nice box, maybe a chair next to it, looking like a real photo, but the end of the day its a box and a chair which is boring.

XIV needs creativity, atm it looks horrible.

I think the real villain here is the level of detail distance, especially in Limsa those cliffs are blurry as shit unless you are close.

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Originally Posted by Sinzfeldt

I think the real villain here is the level of detail distance, especially in Limsa those cliffs are blurry as shit unless you are close.

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Dont worry, Abigail will repeat some excuse for that too.

I recommend ignoring Belgian and gifthorse. they're trolls and you shouldn't let them annoy you.

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Originally Posted by Sinzfeldt

I think the real villain here is the level of detail distance, especially in Limsa those cliffs are blurry as shit unless you are close.

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Turn off Depth of Field.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

Turn off Depth of Field.

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Funny thing it already is turned off. Try reading the post.

The biggest problem with the game is the very very flat lighting, it need way more dynamic lights. Repeat texture are somewhat annoying and need to be address as well, but fuck they need to have better lights. Third thing they could fix is the overall PC performance of the engine, game runs pretty shitty and my gaming rig is very high end.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

I've lost faith in humanity. Abigale is either successfully trolling me by persistently taking the position that the 2005 tech demo is pre-rendered, or he is just really, really dumb. I hope to God he's just trolling.

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except for the fact that the proof is in the name TECH DEMO, it means it is a TECHNICAL DEMO not actual gameplay footage.

They got a good engine and graphics but it is lacking details... everything, from the details, the texture mapping.. feels exactly like the game itself, half-baked and rushed out the door.

WOW's graphics may not be on par with FFXIV but their amazing level of detail makes the graphics much more enjoyable to look at and brings the whole world to life. It's not all about the polygons... the details is what truly makes good graphics stand out.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I LOVE XIV graphics it's the visual design of the fields that lacks any imagination whatsoever.

How about you add some of that fantasy in this Final Fantasy game SE?

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I disagree. I think the maps come out very seemless, which FF maps tend to do. When nothing really stands out, it can seem very boring. Also, there tends not to be as much interesting terrian along the roads. Particularly in Limsa Luminsa, when you get off the roads, it becomes more interesting.

The console games do have a bit more detail, but it's possible that level of detail would have been too much for an mmo. My brand new computer screams a bit when I run FF as it is. I'm not against adding some more stuff, but not if it slows the game down.

But I reiterate what I said before as well, with all this game needs to be really enjoyable, graphics does not come even close to making the list.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

They got a good engine and graphics but it is lacking details... everything, from the details, the texture mapping.. feels exactly like the game itself, half-baked and rushed out the door.

WOW's graphics may not be on par with FFXIV but their amazing level of detail makes the graphics much more enjoyable to look at and brings the whole world to life. It's not all about the polygons... the details is what truly makes good graphics stand out.

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Not a lot of detail? Have you ever zoomed in and looked at your character or enemies? There's a tremendous amount of detail on almost everything, except the bottoms of your shoes.

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Originally Posted by JudgeN

The biggest problem with the game is the very very flat lighting, it need way more dynamic lights. Repeat texture are somewhat annoying and need to be address as well but fuck they need to had better lights. Third thing they could fix is the overall PC performance of the engine, game runs pretty shitty and my gaming rig is very high end.

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^This

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

except for the fact that the proof is in the name TECH DEMO, it means it is a TECHNICAL DEMO not actual gameplay footage.

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The 2005 Tech-Demo was real-time in-engine footage. It's what the game could have looked like back then. What the hell happened since then?

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

They got a good engine and graphics but it is lacking details... everything, from the details, the texture mapping.. feels exactly like the game itself, half-baked and rushed out the door.

WOW's graphics may not be on par with FFXIV but their amazing level of detail makes the graphics much more enjoyable to look at and brings the whole world to life. It's not all about the polygons... the details is what truly makes good graphics stand out.

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^Also This.


It's not about how many polygons you have. It's quality over quantity. Repeating textures would be fine and copy pasta'd terrain would be bearable if landscapes actually casted shadows, and the lighting in this game didn't suck.

UH Huh and the 2005 FFVII Tech demo is actual in game footage as well right? The 2005 tech demo for Rapture is just a demo of what the engine can do it is not actual in game footage, hence it means it is pre rendered. You would see Icons and other graphics such as a 1st person view of your character running around if it was in game footage, same as you do now when you login to xiv. The 2005 demo is no different then the opening sequences of the Limsa boat before you fight the first monsters.

Also as a person before said if you can prove that it is in game footage and someone is controlling a character in it, please provide a link to the interview or stop trolling with useless bull.

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The Mysterious E3 Tech Demo

May 16th, 2005

Fast forward to 2005. The setting: E3. Square Enix's primary purpose was to announce to the public that it was on-board with Microsoft to develop it's first title on the X-Box 360 platform, a port of FFXI. At the close of the E3 press conference Youichi Wada, President of Square Enix, took the audience by surprise when he revealed never-before-seen footage of what appeared to be a new MMORPG. This video would become simply known as the Square Enix Secret MMO Tech Demo.

The short 40 second video depicted an elegant port city featuring steam-punk architechtures, a passing hot-air balloon, and what appeared to be wyverns floating over the calm waters. But perhaps the most interesting (and confusing) aspect of the tech demo was that this particular city was populated by characters strikingly similar to those found in FFXI.

No information was given regarding the actual content of the video, only that it was running on the 360 platform. It was at this conference that Square Enix first announced to the public that a new MMORPG was in the works. SE then went back into the proverbial bat cave with the project, details of which would not surface until nearly two years later, only bits and pieces of rumors and brief statements.

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Originally Posted by Sinzfeldt

Funny thing it already is turned off. Try reading the post.

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They don't look "blurry" to me without DoF. Unless you turned down the texture quality. >_>

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

UH Huh and the 2005 FFVII Tech demo is actual in game footage as well right? The 2005 tech demo for Rapture is just a demo of what the engine can do it is not actual in game footage, hence it means it is pre rendered.

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No. Pre-rendering is the process in which video footage is not rendered in real-time by the hardware that is outputing or playing back the video. Instead, the video is a recording of a footage that was previously rendered on a different equipment (typically one that is more powerful than the hardware used for playback). Pre-rendered assets (typically movies) may also be outsourced by the developer to an outside production company. Such assets usually have a level of complexity that is too great for the target platform to render in real-time.

Here's an example of Pre-rendering from 2001. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyfe2kMxYPk

And here's an example of a modern, real-time tech-demo. not Pre-Rendered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eY_En9VcwM

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

No. Pre-rendering is the process in which video footage is not rendered in real-time by the hardware that is outputing or playing back the video.

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There are several levels of prerendering.
You can prerender a whole movie, you can preprender just the effects, you can create a scene with an engine and then prerender it with additional effects.

In all those cases a movie is considered prerendered. That tech demo is evidently prerendered, just looking at the effects and how they interact with characters and environment shows that.

The vast majority of posters in this thread has evidently told you that you're wrong. The graphica of the game look fantastic. Even reviewers that you brought up so many times (erroneously) disagree with you.

Abriel you cant fix stupid this is a classic case of I have to be right syndrome no matter how many tell him he is wrong. Just ignore it and let the baby have his bottle.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Abriel you cant fix stupid this is a classic case of I have to be right syndrome no matter how many tell him he is wrong. Just ignore it and let the baby have his bottle.

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Unfortunately that seems to be the case.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

There are several levels of prerendering.
You can prerender a whole movie, you can preprender just the effects, you can create a scene with an engine and then prerender it with additional effects.

In all those cases a movie is considered prerendered. That tech demo is evidently prerendered, just looking at the effects and how they interact with characters and environment shows that.

The vast majority of posters in this thread has evidently told you that you're wrong. The graphica of the game look fantastic. Even reviewers that you brought up so many times (erroneously) disagree with you.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtZvn5c4e4

I see what is causing your confusion. The FFXI Characters being relatively low-poly combined with not casting shadows makes you believe that the background is superimposed pre-rendered CGI because the lighting effects lead you to believe that that level of detail was unattainable real-time in 2005. Am I correct in assessing your (albeit wrong) position?

Unfortunately for your argument, the structures in the demo don't cast shadows either. There's just nice water reflection effects. Which just furthers my point that water reflection make the game look a WHOLE hell of a lot prettier, and is an effect which uses minimal resources (think waverace 64) - especially compared to ambient occlusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xrReCeiZPc An example of what a modern tech demo looked like in 2005.

Edit: ^this 2005 3dmark video makes one wonder where SE got the idea for Limsa's cutscene ;)

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

I see what is causing your confusion.

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You're the one that's confused :D

Not only there are no shadows cast by characters, but there's no shadows casted ON characters. on the other hand there are shadows cast on structures. There are also baked shadows very visible, which are a clear indication of prerendering.

Reflective water uses "minimal resources" only when the water model is extremely simple. That's most decidedly not the case with FFXIV.

You really shouldn't talk about what you don't know :D Everyone disagrees with you, and ultimately this thread was epic fail.

I see a lot of people complaining about FFXIV Graphics and/or comparing it with other games... guys if you don't like FFXIV graphics at all, or you think it could be better, then join SE staff, ask for changes and/or help develop a newer graphic engine or whatever, so the game looks better but won't require an inexistent PC to run it at 40-60 FPS.

You're all whining and complaining about graphics, if you're so graphic-hunger then play something more "Detailed" and stop endlessly arguing over something so trivial as "What game got the best graphics", personally I love FFXIV graphics, they are more than decent and even with my sucky PC I can still play it with some decent graphics.

Mine is more to do with animations but I suppose it falls into graphics.

Weapon skill/spell animations - This is supposed to be a next gen MMO, I realise this is an MMO so can't compare to a single player game but I still expected something more along the lines of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-pzptgE4a4

but instead we got this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wodu_aYjSdU

Come on SE you can do better than that, in fact you already have.

Want to see Lackluster graphics? get Shogun 2 Total war. First they advertised it with Direct X 11 support. Then they said that Direct X 11 support would come a month after launch and that Antialiasing would be supported only on Direct X 10.1 and upwards.
Today (after launch) we discover that nothing over DirectX 9 is supported at launch, and that includes the fact that the game doesn't have AntiAliasing for everyone. Of course the developer "forgot" to mention it.

The very convenient (and laughable) fact is that reviewers and media have been given a build of the game that had the full graphics (DirectX 10 DirectX 11 and AntiAliasing) enabled, basically dropping into the false and misleading advertisement realm.

Compared to having to play a game from today without AA, this game looks fantastic. Compared to creative Assembly and Sega, Square Enix did a great job.

They didn't get excessively involved with effects that would cause issues, and as a result we're at least getting to play the game without horrible jaggies all over the place.
First rule of game development: Don't bite more than you can chew.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

D Everyone disagrees with you, and ultimately this thread was epic fail.

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#1, You and Elkwood having zero understanding about what pre-rendering is does not mean everyone disagrees with me. Did you even look at the 3dMark 2005 video showcasing vastly superior real-time graphical technology?

#2, You've posted on this thread probably about 45 times. It doesn't get much more WIN than that, making fanboys this mad...

#3. Pause the 2005 video at 9 seconds in and examine what you see. The walls, posts etc.. of the structure do not cast shadows. Light is allowed to pass through as if there are no walls, lampposts, or rails. Hence, no shadows on the characters either. Same thing as compared to FFXIV today.