I know it's been talked about, but seriously. No Jump Potions, here is why.

I am ok with Jump potions. I have seen too many new players join during 3.0 and burn out mid 2.xx trying to get to the current content they want to play. For those that say unfair or P2W, I don't see it that way. It gives them a chance to get close to content I am in. What is my time invested in FFXIV since 2.0 beta? 581 days and 15 hours. I log out every day and I don't afk. Looking at my dungeon log of over 5000 dungeon, I estimate I have spent over 104 days in dungeons. I have binders with every patch note released since 2.0 with my hand written notes in the side columns or pages of notes added in to certain sections, crafting, gathering, raid. A jump potion will get someone to current content without the burn out. Yes, they will have much to learn, some are fast learns, some are not. They will have a different experience than I had in game. If I bought this game at Stormblood without a jump potion, I would most likely quit the game given the time effort and notes I have created going through this massive game. I type this as I wait for the servers to go down in two hours and wait for the 3.5 patch notes to come out. I am very invested in the game and I do not feel that jump potions will ruin it. Players burning out will reduce the player base at current content and if new players have to grind a massive amount to just get close to current content, they will likely burn out and never make it. Again making for a smaller player base at current content. I have invested much time as an FC leader helping new players through the story to have them disappear or say they are leaving the game do to burn out. Very few in the last few months have made it to level 60 and to current content. Off the top of my head, of maybe the 50 ish new players to join the FC in the last 6 months, I can only name 3 that made it to current content, twice that number that still play but are not close to current content and the remaining 40 or so quit the game between level 30 and mid 2.xx content.

Personally I don't approve of a jump potion, I don't exactly know if it's a jump in levels or if it would pass all the msq so they can get into the new expansions. Either way it's a bit of a bad idea.

1. It takes all the fun out of playing the game and following the story. A true gamer enjoys going through the story and experiencing it from the start.

2. Doing a jump in levels or boosting through the msq to gain access to the new expansion could be disasterific. You could end up with complete noobs in the high level content and have no idea how to play the class they had chosen. That would get extremely frustrating for everyone and as a result the new players possibly quit the game because of it.

I don't like the jump potion because it's a kick in the ass to anyone and everyone that has already put 100's of hours into the game. It makes there achievements worthless if your just handing them out.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

I don't like the jump potion because it's a kick in the ass to anyone and everyone that has already put 100's of hours into the game. It makes there achievements worthless if your just handing them out.

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This I hope the Potions won't unlock Achievements at all, you've become Lv.50/Lv.60 instantly but not the Achievement for the Job? Too bad!
Hence it's called Achievements, you work for that, you get it in the end.

Now missing only that "$" Icon next to the Character Name for People who have bought the Potions, never be able to remove that.
Not bad actually, People might think that Person could swim in Money. I just see that Player bought a Potion and I'm not going to interact in any way with that Person =P

Secondly it really doesn't take much time to get through the msq's. When I started I got through up to level 50 in about 2-3 weeks, and that was before the exp boost for msq that came with hw. Now I could probably do it in 2 or 3 days playing almost straight because one I already have the experience of playing and two you level fast off the msq's.

You dont need to do no side quests for exp in the game.just the msq is all you need.

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Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

Its translat to skill because you dont get all the skills in one go but one at a time,getineg used to it and then get the next one.

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People learn at different speeds though, and I doubt there's a defining number on how many times a skill/ability needs to be used before a person gets the hang of it. Also many rotations don't come together until the higher levels.

Dragoon for example.
Until they get full thrust at level 26, its more potency to just spam impulse drive over and over.


True thrust > Vorpal thrust (150+200) = 350 potency
Impulse drive > Impulse drive (180+180)= 360 potency

And level 50 dragoon plays a bit differently than a level 60 one. Same deal with Black mages and Bards.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

Personally I don't approve of a jump potion, I don't exactly know if it's a jump in levels or if it would pass all the msq so they can get into the new expansions. Either way it's a bit of a bad idea.

1. It takes all the fun out of playing the game and following the story. A true gamer enjoys going through the story and experiencing it from the start.

2. Doing a jump in levels or boosting through the msq to gain access to the new expansion could be disasterific. You could end up with complete noobs in the high level content and have no idea how to play the class they had chosen. That would get extremely frustrating for everyone and as a result the new players possibly quit the game because of it.

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What does enjoying the story have to do with being a true gamer? I want to believe gaming part is what makes someone a true gamer (not that I can accurately define a "true gamer" to begin with)

For some people people having to go through fetch quests and drawn out storylines are what kill the fun. If there was a "fetch quest roulette," I doubt anyone would do it. (though If there were a cutscene roulette, people interested in the story would do it in hopes of landing something that didn't get transfered to the inn rooms.)

That fighting game "street fighter" has a somewhat complex story behind its characters, how they interact and what they're fighting for. I'm willing to bet most people know more about their characters special move inputs and frame data than they do about the backstories though. I guess they aren't true gamers then?

Sure we're going to get some unskilled players messing up the high level duties (as usual), but on the positive side we'll also get some new skilled players this way as well. MMO vets that bring their skills to the end game before getting bored by the 2.0 leveling process.

Also look at all the 2.0 vets that dropped Bard because they found heavensward changes a bit jarring compared to what they got used to over the years. Now we'll have new players getting Wanderer's Minuete early in their careers, allowing them to make the transition into heavensward without resistance (since they lack years of old bard to "unlearn." )

Okay, new thread ideas:
Please no more redundant threads.
Please no multiposts. (The edit function bypasses the character limit)

I will never use jump potions, but I don't really care if it is implemented or not. We have plenty of bad players already. If the cannot play and cannot learn, I will simply votekick.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Either way, the point I'm trying to make is the 2.0+ assumes that you never played 1.0, do you want 4.0 to assume that you never played 2.0 and 3.0, and explain the garlean empire, nidhogg, and the ascians as though we never encounted them before?

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They don't have to explain any of that as if we've never encountered them before. Just like when Gaes van Baelsar or Nael Deus Darnus show up in ARR, we don't have some super long cut-scene summarizing their entire story from 1.0. They're presented as somewhat generic villains. For the uninformed, that's enough for them to create a starting point and fill in the blanks from there. For the people with experience from 1.0, they naturally slot in the backstory. Again, I didn't play 1.0 but from the short cut scene before T9, it was pretty obvious to me Nael was a psycho and a Garlean villain.

When you pick up the 3rd or 4th Harry Potter movie, the director doesn't need to explain to you the depth of the friendship Hermione and Ron developed with Harry in the first few movies. They set up scenarios and let the acting explain itself. For characters like Aliphinaud and Tataru, you don't need to explain who they are. You let the dialogue and scenarios paint the obvious image that they're your companions. Maybe if you're feeling zealous you can add NPC text you can read on the side that'll give you some backstory.

For example, you don't need to be told who the Ascians are. A few lines of text paired with their obviously evil appearance is enough to establish what they are. The details can be slowly woven into a player's mind through new events. Nidhogg's eyes don't need a backstory. You just need to make it abundantly obvious they're a relic imbued with an extreme amount of aether. To this day I don't really know what the big deal is with Tupsimati. Yea, it's Louisoix's old staff and a good conductor of aether? I assume there might be more backstory? It didn't influence my ability to understand the story.

As your universe ages and expands, you have to do less and less to actually create depth in your story. You just have to leave it enough room to breath so that the people who really care about lore can fill it with backstory. To the people who don't care, it'll be a simple and straightforward story. If you watch Civil War without any of the other Captain America movies, you'll understand that Steve and Bucky are buds. Yea, there are flash-backs here and there and script references to old lines that new people won't get. Knowing the backstory will obviously add to the relationship. But, not knowing doesn't make the movie incoherent. Not being extremely heavy-handed in your re-introduction of their bond is fine.

A true gamer will play the game not look how to cheat or skip parts of it.
And realy i dont want to have much of this "new gamers" we have now days.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

Secondly it really doesn't take much time to get through the msq's.

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You, Sir, are awarded the Golden LOL Of The Year.

I'm happy to see the reports that most players who use the Level Jump potions don't also use the Story Jump potions. I can understand not wanting spend hours in between story sections grinding levels/gear, but I can't understand wanting to skip a huge portion of this game's content just to get to the "real" content.

I wish the Level Jump potions didn't autocomplete class/job quests, though. I would feel bad for players running around with the Azure Dragoon title that don't even know what an Azure Dragoon is. Plus, even if they were the max level/ilevel, doing each job quest would ensure that new players at least had a very basic idea of how to play their class.

heres my Seeing of this

I made it through all arr, up to heavensward launch. And about a month after heavensward had to take a break do to family stuff(had a kid moved new Job). life has been crazy for a bit. Now when I had left, I didn't have too much to do, I was working through heavensward areas doin my thing. I had just gotten to the first area and was working on those quests and flight. Now when I came back, my friend and I counted...I have upwards of 97 quests to catch up to the end of current MSQ content. not counting all the riads and side things to do. Thats alot. But now that I'm back im slowing poking at things.

Now My group has one other friend. He made it to lvl 50 and just finished the arr MSQ. Hasnt gotten too far past that. We counted his MSQ from where he is and he has around 200 MSQ to catch up. thats from the end of arr. And while he likes final Fantasy and mmos (he put somewhere around 10+ years into ffxi) he still feels bogged down by the length hed have to go just to catch up to me. Let alone our group at endgame.

So I think the potions will be helpful in keeping new(and some returning) players in the game.

But. I still worry about the players who dont have a high lvl job already using to potion to get to end game levels and dungeons. I think if you use a level jump potion there should be some sort of trial to pass before being able to que 50+ content with said jobs. being required to do so many -sub 50 dungeon, or heists, or even a special made trial

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Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

A true gamer will play the game not look how to cheat or skip parts of it.
And realy i dont want to have much of this "new gamers" we have now days.

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A true gamer will play a game how they feel comfortable doing within the parameters allowed by the game so they can enjoy it.(be it playing all content or skipping so they are. At a comfortable location for them to have fun.)

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Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

A true gamer will play the game not look how to cheat or skip parts of it.
And realy i dont want to have much of this "new gamers" we have now days.

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How pretentious...

As a new guy who has only played a couple weeks, let me tell you.

Only four days ago have I been able to start playing the class I bought the game and expansion to play. Because of that, I don't know how to play it for beans. People get angry in dungeons because of my poor play.

Now, you can say: Domeric, you're just terrible.

However, people love me when I play warrior.

As a returning player tbh I think jump potions would be amazing. I don't have the time to level tons of jobs, and I'm struggling to catch up as it is....So while I wish there had been some alternative to greatly expedite the leveling process, this is something I support, because believe me, a lot of new/returning players get discouraged by how much work it is to catch up...

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Originally Posted by Tatiana

As a returning player tbh I think jump potions would be amazing. I don't have the time to level tons of jobs, and I'm struggling to catch up as it is....So while I wish there had been some alternative to greatly expedite the leveling process, this is something I support, because believe me, a lot of new/returning players get discouraged by how much work it is to catch up...

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And that problem only gets worse the more expansions are launched.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I've said it in the main thread, but I might as well say it here too: my biggest issue is the split in the player base. There will be players who have done the whole levelling experience, and players who have only experienced stormblood. When it comes to designing narrative, who do you appeal to? Who is right and who is wrong? What happens if jump potion players (in overwhelming numbers) complain about their narrative making no sense post 60? How will the devs manage two audiences that they have allowed to have two very different experiences with very different needs?

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This doesn't make any sense.

Why would those who made the conscious decision to skip the story, meaning they knew exactly what they were doing when they used the story skip potion...move on to actually complain that they don't understand the story? They don't understand the story....because they skipped it! lmao. They know that, they aren't dumb.

and more than likely they skipped the story because they didn't care about it in the first place, so they definitely won't care to point they'll start complaining about it.

There is one narrative, and there will be one narrative. There won't be any designing a narrative to cater to the people that don't care about the narrative. IF they decide that at some point they do care about it and want to learn more about it, they'll watch old cutscenes, ask friends, buy a lore book if they want, or just get an alt and do the story themselves.

I think you're underestimating people's ability to google the story or look for loretellers on youtube. i never played warcrafts 1 - 3 but I read the wikis and I know the story that led into world of warcraft.

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Originally Posted by Domeric

I think you're underestimating people's ability to google the story or look for loretellers on youtube. i never played warcrafts 1 - 3 but I read the wikis and I know the story that led into world of warcraft.

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Honestly, I DID play Warcraft 1 - 3 and I still needed someone to summarize it for me.

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Originally Posted by Steelthunder

Oh boo hoo... I have been playing since launch and put some many hours into my character. Now newbies will be able to reasonably catch up to me skipping a grind and irrelevant content a lot of people dont want to do in a game that has gotten too huge with expansions and patches and keeps getting too big. I dont feel special anymore. Me e-achievements dont have the same weight anymore. Feel so outraged. Woe is me...

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Good luck for them to clear A3S pre-nerf... ahhh no they can't, it was nerf :)
They could try to beat my 7695 achievement points, but they will need as many hours as me to do it at least.

I still don't get why people would want to skip right to the end game when it's the most boring part. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Domeric

I think you're underestimating people's ability to google the story or look for loretellers on youtube. i never played warcrafts 1 - 3 but I read the wikis and I know the story that led into world of warcraft.

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Not to mention the part where you can watch the story from an inn...I skip alot of scenes because I need to get on with catching up and I'll rewatch later lol.

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

I still don't get why people would want to skip right to the end game when it's the most boring part. :confused:

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I didn't want to skip to the end. I wanted to play the class I bought the game to play.

Gating classes isn't a good decision.

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Originally Posted by Tatiana

Not to mention the part where you can watch the story from an inn...I skip alot of scenes because I need to get on with catching up and I'll rewatch later lol.

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Yeah, same.

because it's the new age gamers. they want it all here and now. next we will see them cry that the game is to hard for them after the jump.

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Originally Posted by Domeric

Yeah, same.

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Good Luck with that, 75% of the Story can't be rewatched, it's mostly plain Text that explains it which of course, you can't re-watch back!
A lot of NPCs have a fair share of Informations that won't be either on Youtube...
SE even flooded us with their "Complete 2.55" Warning before HW would start, that way 3-4 if not so even more Months earlier due of that!

Not the first Time I witness Players regretting they skipped the Story after getting to the boring Tomestone Grind in the end, but you can imagine, they also blame that on Square Enix for some Reason.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

they also blame that on Square Enix for some Reason.

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Bad design choices are bad design choices.

I don't regret my choices either way. I can google. I can youtube. I didn't miss out on the story. It is still there for time immemorial.

Started invalidating their own content? Oh...you mean like Palace of the Dead?

Devs: "Hey guys. We made a new mini-game that not only drops content once found exclusively in specific duties, but rewards you XP as well, AND gives you a 255 ilevel item for little to no effort. You know how we have an ENTIRE story and rather beautiful world out there for you to explore? Fuck all that, no one cares about it. Come to Palace of the Dead. We'll take care of you."

I think SE managed to shoot themselves in the foot in invalidating their own content without the use of Jump Potions.

I had everything at 60 before the palace of the dead released lol. It did nothing for me other than add content :P

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Originally Posted by Domeric

Bad design choices are bad design choices.

I don't regret my choices either way. I can google. I can youtube. I didn't miss out on the story. It is still there for time immemorial.

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I don't view it as a bad design choice, it's just a choice that isn't going to universally appeal to everyone. If it isn't obvious by now, FFXIV is centered around the storytelling. Much more than any other MMO. This causes the game to appeal much more to those that want that. Having some classes/dungeons/raids restricted until your character learns about them makes sense when the idea is to maintain the integrity of the story.

The bad design choice isn't making the game centered around story, it's gating any class period behind that story.

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Originally Posted by Domeric

The bad design choice isn't making the game centered around story, it's gating any class period behind that story.

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That's up to you, can't sadly pleasure anyone.

Exact Type is the 450 Tomestone Cap. People yell and cry how much they want it gone and in the other side, People yell and cry they don't want it gone.

Gating is present everywhere in the Game in a special Type you know.

It's called "Timesink" first and additional Caps on it!

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

That's up to you, can't sadly pleasure anyone.

Exact Type is the 450 Tomestone Cap. People yell and cry how much they want it gone and in the other side, People yell and cry they don't want it gone.

Gating is present everywhere in the Game in a special Type you know.

It's called a "Timesink" first and additional Caps on it!

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I have no idea what you're talking about. Tomes aren't pertinent to what it was that I thought we were discussing, which is the need to rush and skip story to catch up to specific content that was gated.

I don't know why anyone would want to skip the game for tomes. That seems bordering on the hyperbolic.

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Originally Posted by Domeric

I don't know why anyone would want to skip the game for tomes. That seems bordering on the hyperbolic.

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People want to skip the Story because it is gated behind Heavensward so they can play XYZ Job.

People want to skip everything so they can get into the Endgame, it is gated behind Tomestone Grinding.

People want to skip everything so they can get into Raiding, it is gated again behind a Weekly Loot Rule.

I see no difference in that, it just makes People wonder why there is this "Gating" type in the Game, for a good Reason!

I can't make any comment on the endgame. My highest level character is a 54 dark knight. I didn't want to skip the story for my job - I literally had to if I wanted to play it in any decent time frame. Is weekly loot rule like you can only get loot from a raid once a week? If so that's standard across many MMOs. I don't think I've ever seen it complained about.

The gating is not a good reason at all. Even they've admitted it by ensuring the Stormblood classes will not be content gated and earnable in A Realm Reborn.

someone doesnt know what pay to win means

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Originally Posted by FallenHero

someone doesnt know what pay to win means

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Indeed. Jump potions are not pay to win. They are an example of pay to play (buying the game + expansion) and then pay to play with friends (catch-up potions).

I'm a long term player of FFXIV, I haven't unsubbed at all, the only day's missed were due to payment processing errors on SE's side, I love the story and leveling in an RPG. However, even I can see that a brand new player who has friends already in the game is in a tough spot. When SB drops, their friends are all going to be itching to get the new stuff; yet the new player starting at the beginning of ARR has a 4 year old mountain of content to overcome before they are even at the same level as their friends

How many people are going to wait weeks for that new player? very few I'll wager. So that new player is stuck with two alternatives, slog through the mountain of content and fall behind their friends, or purchase the jump potion(s) required and play with them from Day 1. Which do you suppose people will pick, and how many will be put off by not having an optional way to overcome the 4 year content mountain?

I don't think many avid players of FFXIV have the stomach to wait for a month or so as their friend(s) catch-up, watching their raid static and group of friends progressing through the game and gearing up. No one likes feeling left behind, not veterans, an not new players.

So, a necessary evil might be a good phrase for these items, because level jump/story skip potions are indeed a necessary evil - in order to prevent FFXIV from becoming a game that repels new players at light speed.

i realy cant understand why people think something in a game is gated?
play and you get there.no game what so ever give you all it have from the first min of it.
you say """forcing""" people to play the game is bad but no one do it.
if you read the forums lots of older player didn't leaved the game because they played it from lvl 1 to 60 and got some form of emotional attachment.
you don't get it if you jump. so people jump over 1-"3" months of game play to see that end game is just the same as what they jumped over - the story and open world parts.SE will lose lots of long time players this way.

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Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

you don't get it if you jump. so people jump over 1-"3" months of game play to see that end game is just the same as what they jumped over - the story and open world parts.SE will lose lots of long time players this way.

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I disagree on that score. SE will lose new players fast if they are left with a mountain of content to climb just to be with their friends. It's really that simple. there may well be veteran players who leave because their friends cannot join them. Since these items are completely optional, the only people who will use them are people who either; don't care about the story and only want to play end-game with friends, or people who want to play end-game with their friends, but will play an alt on the side through the story at their leisure.

I hate the idea of players skipping the story and leveling, I agree with all the concerns about players who don't know their job skills, or have no clue about the lore showing up in end-game content an flailing around madly as they learn what they should already know. But, I also know that people *will* leave a game if they get left behind. People will avoid a game with a mountain of content that they must complete to play with their friends. Remember for a player joining who wants to do story and level, the existence of jump potions is completely irrelevant.

SE will lose more players if they exclude jump potions than they will if they include them. The use of jump potions will not directly affect veteran players, and all the complaints in this forum about PUGs in DF demonstrate that we don't need jump potions in order to have ice-mages in EX queues.