[DEV REQUEST] Please make the Hellhound Obtainable By More than Just the Top 100 PVP

Pvp in this game is never going to make it big. I don't know why they bother updating it.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Yeah, right. That's why they ripped the Hellhound (proper name, not the Cerberus) straight out of PvE content, something that PvE players have been seen in countless of Void Ark runs. Something that PvE players have even been requesting as a mount in the game.
If they wanted something purely for PvPers, they'd have designed something new, something completely tied to The Feast.

As a sidenote, it'll be hilarious if the silhouette ends up being a placeholder and the actual mount ends up being completely different.

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I'd laugh if this was the case, originally I was actually annoyed about this mount..but I've frankly since got over it, I know people were saying group up and do pvp and all but it was never actually a popular thing on my server in the first place..or at least with my friends lol so -shrug-

I am not for this idea OP. I understand the desire to own all the mounts, but these players need a trophy for their hard work in PVP. Maybe they can give you a recolor one or release it again sometime down the road.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Pvp in this game is never going to make it big. I don't know why they bother updating it.

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Because we like it.

I don't really feel strongly either way on the mount. On the one hand, looking at the top 100 list I can see people who are better than me all the way to the bottom, so I don't think I am good enough to be a top 100 player, but it's also ok for those people to get something really nice that I won't get because they earned it.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Pvp in this game is never going to make it big. I don't know why they bother updating it.

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I don't like feast but I still prefer doing frontline, so yeah.

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Originally Posted by Liii

Make it so that you have more than 1 season giving the same rewards

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This is already the case each reward will last for 2 season just slightly different like the season 1&2 gearset.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Pvp in this game is never going to make it big. I don't know why they bother updating it.

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Hard content will never going to make it big either :^) but yea they saw that ppl like it and its a good way to gather more players to the game.

But "unattainable goal" won't make the PvP scene healthier even with the best reward. It will only make it the same as it is right now...

I'm against all time-limited non-special event rewards in any context, including PVP.

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Originally Posted by Aura_Shurifon

But "unattainable goal" won't make the PvP scene healthier even with the best reward. It will only make it the same as it is right now...

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I meant pvp in general. There are enough casual modes like 8vs8 and frontlines (even big pvp update in 4.0) to make ppl pvp. Feast is for players who want to do pvp more competitive or in a smaller scaled version. You have rewards for casuals and participate rewards in feast so I dont see a problem with a reward exclusive to top 100 etc.. Ppl who don't like pvp would just stop after getting the rewards. Players shouldn't force themselves into pvp.

I'm the OP and I did join PVP ranked Feast this season -- not solely for the mount, mind you, but because I wanted something to do besides grind for scripture/craft/aquapolis and PVP was the one thing I hadn't really tried. I dabbled a bit in Frontlines too, previously.

As I said, I'm leveling WAR in addition to using DRK for PVP just so I can be a better contributor to my team. Of course, my goal is to make it to the top 100, but my biggest issue with this mount is that it's both seasonal *and* exclusive. I don't want to diminish the rewards that the top PVPers get -- earrings won't cut it but I know it also takes a long time to create and render 3D mounts of various sizes, so I'm betting an alternative may not be available by the time season 3 ends, and they had to create *something* quickly.


For the person who wanted to see where all the PVE'ers are that want the Hellhound mount, I had a few minutes, so I searched.

4 things you want to see/see improved in Stormblood (the hellhound mount request was from me)
My thread from August requesting the Hellhound, Tiger, Blackguard wings.
A request I made from July


"Oh but Stormfur" I hear you say "I don't just want to hear it from you! I want to see what other PVE'ers think!" -- okay! Fair enough!

Here you go. And here. - Here's one from last year. And another. And another. And another.

I agree somewhat that they could make the hellhound mount obtainable in some other way, certain number of 8v8 wins for example would be a good idea. however nobody can deny how highly skilled the top 100 are and with the amount of time and effort they put into the feast they should absolutely be rewarded with exclusive items which is why they should receive a cooler mount, the armoured hellhound!!! :p

If SE simply do what everyone request, when does SE have time for other more important content. The hell hound already exist and is just a gift to top 100 feast players, if they put in a armor version they will have to spend time modeling it. Im fine with making the hell hound available to others but then SE needs to give top 100 feast players a different mount and I vote the Cerberus which model is already available in game.

Oh I agree, the top 100 work really, really hard for it and they're really, really good. Definitely deserving of a prize.

But the same argument could be made for Alexander Savage. Could you imagine the absolute goobue dungstorm that would ensue if only the world first raiders got the mount from, say, Alex the Soul of the Creator? Eventually it becomes keyboard-mashingly easy as we get better armor/weaponry. I'm just arguing that the Hellhound could be done the same way, even entirely from PVP via wolf marks/# of wins if it had to be.

I do wish that they could do something to make PVP more accessible and improved for everyone. I know I'm relatively new to it and I cringe a little when we get a new person just because of the increased likelihood of losing and the lower score, just like I'm sure people cringed when I first started. That, plus the fact that once you hit platinum or diamond, it's in your best interest to NOT do any more PVP gaming so you don't lose your rank.

As a unique PvP Mount collector, making this mount available to PvE'ers takes away my game experience.
Can you please not be so selfish?

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

Oh I agree, the top 100 work really, really hard for it and they're really, really good. Definitely deserving of a prize.

But the same argument could be made for Alexander Savage. Could you imagine the absolute goobue dungstorm that would ensue if only the world first raiders got the mount from, say, Alex the Soul of the Creator? Eventually it becomes keyboard-mashingly easy as we get better armor/weaponry. I'm just arguing that the Hellhound could be done the same way, even entirely from PVP via wolf marks/# of wins if it had to be.

I do wish that they could do something to make PVP more accessible and improved for everyone. I know I'm relatively new to it and I cringe a little when we get a new person just because of the increased likelihood of losing and the lower score, just like I'm sure people cringed when I first started. That, plus the fact that once you hit platinum or diamond, it's in your best interest to NOT do any more PVP gaming so you don't lose your rank.

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But this is nothing new. Similar MMO's do this, most notably the reigning MMO champion, World of Warcraft. I understand that this is a different game, but exclusive rewards are given to the server first and top PVP teams and instead of the community being negative of the certain reward, those players are instead praised and looked upon with great respect. Taking away mounts, pets, and titles away from a PVPer and giving them to a collector who probably wont even use them will only worsen the current condition of PVP. This is where the line must be drawn, because no matter what they give these guys someone is going to complain that they are trying to collect it, but can't because they do not believe they can be the best.

A notable item besides a mount should be trophies or statues you can store in your house to show that you were one of the top players, but some housing collector is probably going to complain about that as well.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

As a unique PvP Mount collector, making this mount available to PvE'ers takes away my game experience.
Can you please not be so selfish?

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People could say the same about raid gear and those who can eventually just power through to gain the gear. I am all for you guys getting the mount ahead of us, especially for those of us who are not hardcore and can't even dream of getting the top 100. After all not everyone can be in that bracket but after a year or so, I think it's fine to give the rest of us a chance.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

People could say the same about raid gear and those who can eventually just power through to gain the gear. I am all for you guys getting the mount ahead of us, especially for those of us who are not hardcore and can't even dream of getting the top 100. After all not everyone can be in that bracket but after a year or so, I think it's fine to give the rest of us a chance.

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you are not entitled to spoonfeed every reward in the game

Don't recall asking for it to be spoonfed.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Don't recall asking for it to be spoonfed.

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You brought up the raiding example. What is this other then being sponfed?

All I said it those who work for it can enjoy the rewards such as those who raid, while those who can not have to wait till they can basically face roll it when no one longer cares except for glamour, what is a mount other than a glamour piece? Personally I don't care about it either way yet I know people would still want it.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

All I said it those who work for it can enjoy the rewards such as those who raid, while those who can not have to wait till they can basically face roll it when no one longer cares except for glamour, what is a mount other than a glamour piece? Personally I don't care about it either way yet I know people would still want it.

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I think this is like bad game design, not only this dimishes the achivements of the previous players, why is anyone entitled to every reward in the game if the isnt good enough? Its important that there are rewards which are only obtainalbe for a specific task in a specific time. FF XIV has a special issue with this

Also glamouristheendgame# more people care then you think i belive.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

I think this is like bad game design, not only this dimishes the achivements of the previous players, why is anyone entitled to every reward in the game if the isnt good enough? Its important that there are rewards which are only obtainalbe for a specific task in a specific time. FF XIV has a special issue with this

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Agreed, the reward philosophy in this game is one of the worst I have ever seen. Yoshi P be like:

https://i.imgflip.com/1735qm.jpg

Those sitting at the top ranks are definitely not safe this season. On Primal alone, the difference between rank 100 and the top 10 is about 700 pts, give or take. Top 100 is all about 20 wins from one another. Any who pvp often knows how easily your score can fluctuate hundreds of points in just one night...positive or negative.

It's very grindable. You'll find those with a winrate 55%ish or better as rare little nuggets, most are sitting below 50% and right p there with 1400-1800 pts.

It sometimes just comes down to rng with your teammates and hope for the best. The top 100 is far less about actual season and more about just putting in the time with a modicum of pvp understanding.

I'm all for keeping it in PVP - just making it tied to # of wins or wolf marks or something. I agree that the PVP'ers who reach the top 100 should get a trophy of some kind in addition (I'm surprised they don't already?) but then that leads us down the rabbit hole of "I don't have a house to put it in" for some people.

RE: the Raid gear, I think what Rena meant was that as we get better weapons/armor, we're able to take down previously difficult bosses, including ones that have mounts like the primals and end bosses of Alex savage. Of course by then it's GG EZ mode but that's what happens with old content.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

I'm all for keeping it in PVP - just making it tied to # of wins or wolf marks or something. I agree that the PVP'ers who reach the top 100 should get a trophy of some kind in addition (I'm surprised they don't already?) but then that leads us down the rabbit hole of "I don't have a house to put it in" for some people.

RE: the Raid gear, I think what Rena meant was that as we get better weapons/armor, we're able to take down previously difficult bosses, including ones that have mounts like the primals and end bosses of Alex savage. Of course by then it's GG EZ mode but that's what happens with old content.

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It is a real problem and someone is going to lose in the end. Whether it is the rated PVPer's or the collectors.

Its a very long season, still about 4 months away, people need to calm down. This season you can have 40% - 45% and still accumulate positive points to climb the ranks as long as you keep on trying.

True Collectors tend to take the extra mile in actual effort to complete their collections.

Hopefully there wont be a thread from expert PvPers at the end of the season that complain about loosing the mount because so many more Non-PvPers jointed the Que and made them lose matches. Because if you have something like that as a price and people that normally wont PVP will try it to get it..well you will have a higher chance of having people in your group that have no idea about PVP which will mean that you might lose because of them.

I still see it way better for the long run if you could win mounts and minions from achievements or with wolf marks instead of making them such a limited reward..people that joined this season for the first time will probably not stand a chance against seasoned players and this might annoy them that much that they wont come back to PVP again. But if they have a goal that they can achieve in their own time, they might just play PVP steadily.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Hopefully there wont be a thread from expert PvPers at the end of the season that complain about loosing the mount because so many more Non-PvPers jointed.

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Well they can get mounts etc. for wins too and participation reward. You cant expect going in for the first time and get a top rank should be kinda obvious if ppl leave cause of that its ok. Wolf marks is the worst thing ever cause ppl can just afk to get them fast. Amount of wins? Gl ppl just stop after getting it. Players who aim for top ranked tend to be more open to learn. Top 100/10 deserve more than just reward everyone can get. Also I doubt anyone will complain since the rating gain and loss of platinum now is comparable with gold in season 1&2 so ppl are less frustrated.

Well if wolfs mark are so easy, just make them achievements. X amounts of wins should at least be not that easy to get (I mean the PVP mounts are still part of the rarest mounts in the game) and it will keep PVP alive longer than one season. I still believe that they choose to suddenly include limited mounts and minions (they only changed the last thanks to the complains) because they want more people to take part of the seasons or even PVP itself. I just feel that this wont help PVP in the long run.

Just a example:
I mean if someone starts PVP for the mount, because he wants it, he for example does 100 matches, maybe half of them are wins. He notices that he doesnt stand a chance against the top players (which makes sense since he is new) which means that he loses the will to go on, maybe he is even so frustrated that he wont ever join a season again. (I mean 100 matches is no small amount of time including the time to wait for it) At the same time instead of limiting the mount to this they could make it a achievement for 400 wins in the feast (if you take a 50% ratio this would make 800 matches) or make it that you have to play 500 matches in a season. Now he knows that he can work for it in his own pace. Maybe one week he will feel more like it and he joins a lot of runs. Others he does not want to because he has other things planned or maybe just no interest in it. Maybe one season he has no time but he knows that its okay, he can just try next season for the completion of the achievement.
There always will be people who lose interest on the way to the achievement, but at least for me, making it a nice achievement will keep the feast alive longer, while it will still keep the mount rare and something you need to work for.

A story from my experience:
I have someone that started PVP for the mount because he is a collector and he takes things really serious..after countless matches he gave up. He was way to frustrated with all the hate in the matches, with bad team members that blamed others, seeing his ratings fall back and so on. He said that the feast itself felt nice but that he was way to annoyed by everything around it, so he did not feel like playing anymore. Before he started he looked up any guide he could find, searched for the best way to equip himself..he was truly trying to get the mount. But the players in the feast really destroyed it for him..I never saw him giving up on something ingame before..he might start again for the minion in the achievement but he was not even able to be happy about that change..so frustrated was he..This might just be one case, but I am just trying to show that maybe this might not be good for getting new people to enjoy PVP in the long run.

And about rewards:
I agree that the top 100/10 should get something special, but I dont feel like it should be a mount or a minion. I mean if this game from the very beginning had exclusive ingame mounts (I dont talk about merchandise mounts and other outside ones) than maybe this would feel less strange but in every other content you always have the chance to get them later. PVP already has a lot of unique mounts, way more than the savage raids for example, I just find it sad that now another mount will be there and its also so limited..

Have a nice title as a reward, or an ingame board to show off. Maybe a nice icon for your name that you can wear (like the mentor crown thing) for a certain amount of time. Like if you win the season, you will be able to show the icon for the whole next season but at the end of the next season you will have to be top100 to keep it, or maybe you can keep it and can get another one.

So yes I am not really against PVP seasons having unique rewards, even though its one of the only content that has such a reward structure. I mean the world first savage groups get nothing special for it, there is nothing limited there, only the online pat on the back for their win and a nod from the devs. Its even worse since anything they can get in there, will be achievable by others later. You already get way more than them, so for me it feels a little unfair for the other groups in this content, that now its even a mount. Especially since the hellhound was on the wish list on PVE community.

Alleo if you count every pvp mount that exist then you should count all of the pve mounts too not just savage lol. Talking about fair? Pvpers got treated so bad in the past etc. idk how anyone can come up with that. We got it PvPer should get exclusive rewards as long as its nothing interesting or cool k. Of course the mount was only requested by pvers not a single PvPer wanted it sure see.

Some PvEr's play pvp occasionally like myself, it isnt exclusive to the "PvP community". There are also a lot of newcomming pvp'ers that have joined the current or previous season(s) that have made their mark and are or have earned a spot within the top 100.

The only award the PvEr's (who refuse to get good at PvP) will find acceptable is a reward that is either as widely repulsive as the season 1&2 glamour or something no one else would ever want. Anything that may be aesthetically appealing and unique, players will complain, cry, and/or throw a tantrum on the forums because they believe anything they deem to themself out-of-reach is unfair. The reality of the supposed issue is that the reward is both based on skill and is exclusive. To be honest, ffxiv already has exclusive rewards and could(needs) use more. There are already achievements in PvP that grant glamour, mounts, etc from wolf marks and wins, but winning occasionally doesn't necessarily require skill when you can simply get carried or create situations where you are guaranteed to win at low skill levels.

The mentality of earning a prize through your own hard work just makes the reward that much sweeter and feels overwhelming satisfactory. Obtaining something as a consultation reward ie wolf marks and ~30% winrate does not emit the same emotions.

By the way, since its obvious a lot of the people complaining about pvp awards are unknowing of, the devs said season 3&4 are going to have similar rewards. On top of that, season 3 isn't ending until march or early april(Total of 5~months), there is still plenty of time to make it to top 100.

I agree, everyone should have a chance at obtaining the mount. And SE agrees too... they are removing GC locks next patch so everyone can Queue up and earn the new mount like intended.

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Originally Posted by Anlerian

I agree, everyone should have a chance at obtaining the mount. And SE agrees too... they are removing GC locks next patch so everyone can Queue up and earn the new mount like intended.

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Feast is not linked to GC at all. The removing of GC requirements won't make Feast queue times go down.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

Some PvEr's play pvp occasionally like myself, it isnt exclusive to the "PvP community". There are also a lot of newcomming pvp'ers that have joined the current or previous season(s) that have made their mark and are or have earned a spot within the top 100.

The only award the PvEr's (who refuse to get good at PvP) will find acceptable is a reward that is either as widely repulsive as the season 1&2 glamour or something no one else would ever want. Anything that may be aesthetically appealing and unique, players will complain, cry, and/or throw a tantrum on the forums because they believe anything they deem to themself out-of-reach is unfair. The reality of the supposed issue is that the reward is both based on skill and is exclusive. To be honest, ffxiv already has exclusive rewards and could(needs) use more. There are already achievements in PvP that grant glamour, mounts, etc from wolf marks and wins, but winning occasionally doesn't necessarily require skill when you can simply get carried or create situations where you are guaranteed to win at low skill levels.

The mentality of earning a prize through your own hard work just makes the reward that much sweeter and feels overwhelming satisfactory. Obtaining something as a consultation reward ie wolf marks and ~30% winrate does not emit the same emotions.

By the way, since its obvious a lot of the people complaining about pvp awards are unknowing of, the devs said season 3&4 are going to have similar rewards. On top of that, season 3 isn't ending until march or early april(Total of 5~months), there is still plenty of time to make it to top 100.

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This is a clear fallacy, at least when generalized. People haven't complained about LoV minions or any other mount in PvP. You also don't see any complaints over Savage mounts or the unique PvP gear. Why? None of them are timed exclusives. You can drag a friend to help with LoV if no one's playing, you can slowly work towards obtaining the achievements necessary to unlock Frontline mounts. Only the Hellhound is timed and exclusive to the top 100th. That's what people are complaining about. It's the same issues that cropped up with the Maid outfit, Chinese and Korean dresses. People were mad due to their original exclusivity (and the awful European promotion).

There were complaints about the ADS mount from PvP, just not a 16 page thread of it. There were also conplaints about the unique PvP gear which is why none of the PvP gear requires a certain PvP rank to equip anymore.

The main issue being that the ADS and Standing Ship mount are able to be gotten with time. When it comes to the mount however it is in limited supply, doesn't matter how skilled you are if your as equally skilled as the other 100s. However as I stated before I could care less about the mount, as I dont have the ADS or ship either, but if 200 people are equally skilled and fighting over the top 100 then 100 of those people are going to be out of luck or hope they can just squeeze in another round to push them into the threshold. Then I'd assume we would have THOSE people coming here complaining that they held a top 100 spot the entire time only to be knocked out at the last moment. We have people here rage over being out rolled on a bird or horse that they can just go back in and try again, imagine when it's limited content.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

but if 200 people are equally skilled and fighting over the top 100 then 100 of those people are going to be out of luck or hope they can just squeeze in another round to push them into the threshold. Then I'd assume we would have THOSE people coming here complaining that they held a top 100 spot the entire time only to be knocked out at the last moment. We have people here rage over being out rolled on a bird or horse that they can just go back in and try again, imagine when it's limited content.

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Imagine previous seasons ppl got knocked out of top 100 in the last week when leaderboard isnt getting updated and no one complained.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

None of them are timed exclusives.

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You call them timed exclusives, I call them prizes