[Cash Shop Idea] Game Time Token

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Originally Posted by alimdia

How do you "win" with gil in FFXIV? Gil won't make you a raider, gil won't lift the weekly tomestone cap, you can't buy the best gear with gil, .

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If you checked, some of the crafted 250 pieces are bis. So technically for some slots you CAN buy the best gear with gil. Ergo pay2win

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

Can you read? He said what in his post:

Rich people don't need to pay a sub anymore.

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That's... not free. Not only do they have to pay gil, but SE is still getting their money, so SE is not providing anything for free.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

If you checked, some of the crafted 250 pieces are bis. So technically for some slots you CAN buy the best gear with gil. Ergo pay2win

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Actually crafted pentamelded i250 HQ for patch 3.4 was BiS, because that's how people got Worlds First, hence it was the best gear even if for a time, without it there wouldn't be World Firsts (i don't even know if even with pots it would be possible to clear A12S with i240 and Sophia weapon), people would have to get Alex weekly i250, tome gear, and that would result in less stat weights for the most part due to bad combo of stats.

Translating: people can buy the best gear even if for a certain time, so it's a win for raiders and crafters who sold those pieces.

As for i260/270 it's not needed to clear A12S, its just make things easier.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

That's... not free. Not only do they have to pay gil

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Oh noes, i have gil cap but i can't spend gil!!!!!1one

Why do people keep complaining they have nothing to spend gil on or that it's just gil to make more gil then?

Now if this happened there was a reason to spend gil on, but no, still can't "pay gil".

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

but SE is still getting their money

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And? If you buy it in-game you're not paying for it, others who bought the tokens are.

I know people who make 20-50m a day, so for those people that's almost free taking into account what they get.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

so SE is not providing anything for free.

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Huh, where was it said SE was providing stuff for free? o.O

Why do people insist into turning this game into WoW or FFXI? ._.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

I know people who make 20-50m a day, so for those people that's almost free taking into account what they get.

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You know people who make gil cap monthly? I am finding that extremely unlikely. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

You know people who make gil cap monthly? I am finding that extremely unlikely. Lol.

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Yes i do.

Don't forget you can also have up to 8 retainers.

I can't even craft 1 Star lvl60 stuff and can make 2-5m a day. More likely max 3m a day now that POTD drops Primal weapons lol.

I could point you the names or lodestones of those people but i don't think it's allowed. :)

Hint: World First FC Crafters

Also don't forget each server has their own market prices, i've been to Gilgamesh and Ragnarok, on Gilgamesh stuff can cost 5 times less than on Ragnarok, food and pots were 2-3 times cheaper on Gilga. :)

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

Yes i do.

Don't forget you can also have up to 8 retainers.

I can't even craft 1 Star lvl60 stuff and can make 2-5m a day. More likely max 3m a day now that POTD drops Primal weapons lol.

I could point you the names or lodestones of those people but i don't think it's allowed. :)

Hint: World First FC Crafters

Also don't forget each server has their own market prices, i've been to Gilgamesh and Ragnarok, on Gilgamesh stuff can cost 5 times less than on Ragnarok, food and pots were 2-3 times cheaper on Gilga. :)

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I make around 10m a week solely from airships, and probably another 5-6 from retainer ventures. I am fully aware of how to make gil with little to no effort.

I'd definitely appreciate a screen shot of 8 retainers filled with 999m to prove this.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

I am kinda against the idea myself, I mean if its limited to how many you can buy I suppose but then it would seem an odd cause, yet if its free flowing, nothing is stopping someone with gil cap to purchase a year or more for free just using in game cash. Just the idea together gives me mixed feelings.

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There is a limit over there, the seller has a limit of tokens they can buy from Blizzard, the buyer has a limit of tokens he can have at once, so people can't just buy 1-2 years of sub while it's cheap, they will have to deal with the price changes.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

If you checked, some of the crafted 250 pieces are bis. So technically for some slots you CAN buy the best gear with gil. Ergo pay2win

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None of the crafted pieces are bis. Having good secondary stats is not equal to bis, all of them are replaced either by augmented shire or alexandrian.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

And? If you buy it in-game you're not paying for it, others who bought the tokens are.

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Let's clarify two things.

You don't know what BiS means, you can't say "people can buy the best gear" when that's not the best gear available in that patch, the best gear available in even patches is augmented capped tomestone gear and savage gear.

And second, be honest, you're also against the principle, which is fine by itself, but don't pretend that you're concerned about a market damage that isn't there and will never be there, there's no downsides to this other than it conflicts with the principles of some people, if those people came here stating that they are against the principle we would save a lot of pages arguing instead of fearmongering about this token causing the 8th calamity.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

Why do people insist into turning this game into WoW or FFXI? ._.

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I'm hardly interesting in the game becoming WoW. I don't want Orcs & Night Elves. I don't want massive simplification of class mechanics and homogenization of class identity. I don't want the shorter GCD. I don't want the more toxic community, the inferior production values and more numbers-driven raid encounters.

That said WoW is a good game with a lot of good ideas. Many of which inspired the current shape of FF14. If WoW or any other game has good ideas proven to work on a large scale, in a sub game, with a healthy player base that don't dramatically affect balance I'm all for wanting to see them worked in. Things aren't bad simply because WoW does them in general, did them first or are how people became familiar with them before wanting them here.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

Why do people insist into turning this game into WoW or FFXI? ._.

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game time token = turning FFXIV into WoW? wut.jpg

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is honestly not even worth a response, but I'm bored enough to bother.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

And? If you buy it in-game you're not paying for it, others who bought the tokens are.

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That's exactly the point of introducing this. What's wrong with that? Why do you care if someone else is playing the game without they themselves paying for their own sub with their own real money?

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Huh, where was it said SE was providing stuff for free? o.O

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Here's the initial quote for you to read again.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

yet if its free flowing, nothing is stopping someone with gil cap to purchase a year or more for free just using in game cash.

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Which I say the same thing I just said right above. If this is taking into account that SE is still getting their money (i.e., not providing anything for free), then why do they care if someone else is not paying for their own sub? If that's not what it's referring to, and they mean "free" as in SE is not getting money, then that would be a valid concern. Except that isn't the case with what we're talking about.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

cut

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You only have to look at the ariyla website to see what the potency of items is, and SOME crafted items are better then even the upgraded scripture or raiding drops.
Unless the site has its stats completely wrong.

And sometimes the difference is that low that it doesnt mater which one you choose.

remember high ilvl does not equal best piece.

I would be all for this, simply because I have purchased time cards for people (who I liked, helped and were friendly) in my FC who were too broke and were going to miss a month or so. But buying a card, emailing them and giving them the codes and yada yada yada, making sure it went thru and what not, could be easily remade into "Gift the purchase to a friend"

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

I would be all for this, simply because I have purchased time cards for people (who I liked, helped and were friendly) in my FC who were too broke and were going to miss a month or so. But buying a card, emailing them and giving them the codes and yada yada yada, making sure it went thru and what not, could be easily remade into "Gift the purchase to a friend"

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This i could be 100% behind, i would do the same. But keep it as a cash shop gift item. You could do that already with timecards bought in regular stores. But this way seems less of a bother. And it would be even made better if you didnt have to do the final step and gift it directly to the character in question instead of the gift code bother.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

I make around 10m a week solely from airships, and probably another 5-6 from retainer ventures. I am fully aware of how to make gil with little to no effort.

I'd definitely appreciate a screen shot of 8 retainers filled with 999m to prove this.

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I didn't mention 8 retainers as in 8 retainers with gil cap each, i meant it as a much easier way to make gil, for the simple reason that you can put 160 items for sale instead of 20-40.

I have 8 retainers myself, if i had two i wouldn't make average of 3m a day for sure.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

You don't know what BiS means, you can't say "people can buy the best gear" when that's not the best gear available in that patch, the best gear available in even patches is augmented capped tomestone gear and savage gear.

And second, be honest, you're also against the principle, which is fine by itself, but don't pretend that you're concerned about a market damage that isn't there and will never be there, there's no downsides to this other than it conflicts with the principles of some people, if those people came here stating that they are against the principle we would save a lot of pages arguing instead of fearmongering about this token causing the 8th calamity.

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BiS = Best in Slot, it's basically a combination of pieces from Tomestones gear and Savage gear in order to achieve the best stats possible, for example, say you only have Tomestone gear, even if full and upgraded to i270, it won't be nearly as good as picking the pieces of tomestone gear and Savage gear that provides you with the best two stats for your class, in my case Ninja, so i need pieces that have Crit and Det in them (prioritizing Crit) so i'll pick whatever pieces has Crit over the one that doesn't, if for some reason there's a specific body part piece that doesn't have crit then it probably has at least Det, so will pick that one instead.

I'm against this idea yes, i already explained at least twice in this thread why, however i can see myself making some Gil with the tokens, i've spent over 1000€ in GW2 over the years in gems.

I simply disagree with this idea from the point of view that this won't kill bots or RMT.

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Originally Posted by HPDelron

I'm hardly interesting in the game becoming WoW. I don't want Orcs & Night Elves. I don't want massive simplification of class mechanics and homogenization of class identity. I don't want the shorter GCD. I don't want the more toxic community, the inferior production values and more numbers-driven raid encounters.

That said WoW is a good game with a lot of good ideas. Many of which inspired the current shape of FF14. If WoW or any other game has good ideas proven to work on a large scale, in a sub game, with a healthy player base that don't dramatically affect balance I'm all for wanting to see them worked in. Things aren't bad simply because WoW does them in general, did them first or are how people became familiar with them before wanting them here.

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Yes because copying ideas from a game means only copying the textures and characters models.

As for simplification of a class that's something that's bothering me, when they mentioned battle system revamp for SB.

FFXIV already has in place a lot of WoW ideas based on what i've read on these forums (just go to any long threads that are discussing suggestions for this game, ignoring race ones and you'll see those comments), if people keep taking ideas from WoW and want them implemented here the yes, it's trying to have the same game in a different world.

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Originally Posted by Inori-Yuzuriha

game time token = turning FFXIV into WoW? wut.jpg

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Yes because the tokens would be the only thing that this game has copied from WoW so far.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

That's exactly the point of introducing this. What's wrong with that? Why do you care if someone else is playing the game without they themselves paying for their own sub with their own real money?

Here's the initial quote for you to read again.

Which I say the same thing I just said right above. If this is taking into account that SE is still getting their money (i.e., not providing anything for free), then why do they care if someone else is not paying for their own sub? If that's not what it's referring to, and they mean "free" as in SE is not getting money, then that would be a valid concern. Except that isn't the case with what we're talking about.

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Are you serious how is that quote, in any way, shape or form, implying SE is giving stuff for free? Really?

SE isn't providing anything for free, people need to spend real money on Tokens.

And i'm going to say again, this won't stop bots or RMT, which is why i disagree with the tokens when people mention Tokens will stop Bots and RMT, it won't.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

This i could be 100% behind, i would do the same. But keep it as a cash shop gift item. You could do that already with timecards bought in regular stores. But this way seems less of a bother. And it would be even made better if you didnt have to do the final step and gift it directly to the character in question instead of the gift code bother.

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Game time gift codes that are 1 time use and non-transferable would be fine not character specific, since that doesn't matter for game time, but account specific because if I am gifting someone game time I should already know their account right? But, game time tokens you can buy/sell in-game are a completely different kettle of fish.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

Can you read? He said what in his post:



Rich people don't need to pay a sub anymore.

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It's the Eorzean way...believe me.

These gil soaked rich people need the support of others. Don't they? People say so. They tell me this all the time. They say rich people need support. Not like that rich popoto Nanamo. Such a nasty woman,she lies, steals, eats kittens and is as corrupt as they come, so says my friend Lord Lolorito. She even conspired to have that nice fellow Teledji Adeleji killed. She's just nasty. Lock her up!!

Make Eorzea Great Again!


;)

p.s. in case it's not clear, I am joking. Personally I adore Nanamo, and will happily stand as her protector.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

It's the Eorzean way...believe me.

These gil soaked rich people need the support of others. Don't they? People say so. They tell me this all the time. They say rich people need support. Not like that rich popoto Nanamo. Such a nasty woman,she lies, steals, eats kittens and is as corrupt as they come, so says my friend Lord Lolorito. She even conspired to have that nice fellow Teledji Adeleji killed. She's just nasty. Lock her up!!

Make Eorzea Great Again!


;)

p.s. in case it's not clear, I am joking. Personally I adore Nanamo, and will happily stand as her protector.

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And there was that whole mess with Nanamo destroying sensitive scrolls kept in a private lectern.

As an aside, I personally think directly gift-able game time would be fine, but I don't see the need for buy-able in-game tokens.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

And there was that whole mess with Nanamo destroying sensitive scrolls kept in a private lectern.

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But we aren't sure which scrolls and the Ascians investigating grinned and said there was nothing to it...

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

As an aside, I personally think directly gift-able game time would be fine, but I don't see the need for buy-able in-game tokens.

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Agreed. Directly giftable time would be wonderful. In game tokens are unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

In game tokens are unnecessary.

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Cash shop is also unnecessary. Yet here we are...

Necessity does not dictate what should or should not be, nor what will or will not be.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

And i'm going to say again, this won't stop bots or RMT, which is why i disagree with the tokens when people mention Tokens will stop Bots and RMT, it won't.

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Disagreeing with it stopping bots is fine. Disagreeing with it because it won't stop bots is... strange, to say the least.

I fully expect to get piled on, but...

No. Let's not have game time tokens, I'm sure there's other things for SE to work on, I'd rather see more content.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

I don't think GMs could ban so many accounts that fast, it might be they developed an automatic system.

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They must be working overtime then because the most recent RMT action report includes almost 26,000 account bans, about 2400 for advertising and the other 23,000+ for RMT activity.

It seems to me that the increased reporting of the advertising has allowed the Strikeforce to deal with a lot more of the accounts in these RMT networks, presumably including 'bots (based on the sheer numbers of accounts involved).

As a long time MMO player and someone who has played WoW, the Token system is the best possible idea to hurt gil spammers AND improve the user experience overall. Everyone knows people buy GIL from third party sites - it's no secret. Might as well sanction it within the game AND let Square Enix make money off it AND benefit players by giving them an option to pay for their subscription with in-game gil.

It's a really a win-win-win. WoW has done it, Eve has done it, FF14 is probably the biggest MMORPG after WoW. No reason not to implement this.

Has anyone at Square Enix talked about this in the past? It would be a great idea.

Game time tokens are what the white knights consider actual RMT

Which is extra hilarious since it's one of the most anti bot and Gil seller systems they can implement

When your sub is over in WoW you can load the character screen and the game asks you if you would like to buy a token with gold(if you have the gold). SE need to change FFXIV a bit because atm you cannot get to the character screen unless you have a sub.