[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

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Originally Posted by Starlord

The other half is coming in 1.21...



Just sayin' =)

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That's just telling you they listed the abilities for jobs which aren't coming out until 1.21. As far as we know, this is the complete list of abilities in the game as of 1.20.

i wonder if CON/WHM won't be as needed with all the HP abilities spread through GLA/PLD and brd, etc

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

You still have elemental nukes. You lost no more than Thamaturge in the trade off, and you've no idea whether or not you NEED all the bells and whistles you're complaining you've lost in the exchange.

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1. I said "pretty much" all of them, not exactly all of them.
I'm well aware of the fact that two elements have been left with CON, which are, btw, the two elements I don't like the most and was never using before unless I was forced to because no other elemental spell was dealing a decent amount of dmg.
There's no variety left, and if I just think about how greatly they changed the difference in dmg of using the element a mob was weak against vs using one it was resistent to, the future for CON looks like a nightmare. :(

Also, lore-wise, it makes no sense CON only has two elements left.
It also makes no sense that THM, who never cared about elements before, now got most of them.
Or PUG, which wasn't even a magic based class to begin with.

They copied FFIII for the elemetal spells for CNJ. In FFIII white mage(devote) and air and earth nuke.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/W...Fantasy_III%29

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Originally Posted by Sehro

lol i wonder why Blizzard is Exclusive....it must be a mistake .

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That's probably not blizzard, it's probably Thaumaturges Ice Based Weapon SKill

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

That's just telling you they listed the abilities for jobs which aren't coming out until 1.21. As far as we know, this is the complete list of abilities in the game as of 1.20.

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That's telling you that list is coming for 1.20.. Other WS/Abilities etc are coming along side with "Jobs"

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along with those to be introduced in patch 1.21

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That's worded as more coming to me.. but w/e =)

Honestly, I love the changes to CNJ and THM. You can actually SEE what they are now. I was tired of all the different spells and crap to use as a THM and all the useless nukes for CNJ.

I can understand how the lore might not make sense now, but remember you voted for this game to be funementally changed. They might be changing what the lore is for 2.0. Just wait and see.

I think the changes to CON and THM are fantastic! Magic chaining looks like a fun and exciting new mechanic for XIV. I cannot wait for 1.20 so I can start developing new play styles for both WHM and BLM. If they kept it the way it was or used the XI model, XIV would just have seriously lacked challenge as I would just have copied old play styles from the past.

As for those people that feel spell distribution being "off"..you need to go play/re-play some of the classics (I-VI) or I found some quick reads :D Black mage (link) and White mage (link). I hope that the Dev team got inspiration from the older games because going back to the roots is always a great way to salute your fan-base.

Also remember that these are the spell/abilities learned up to level 50. They will be raising the level cap soon-ish. I thought I read in 1.21?

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Originally Posted by Atoli

1. I said "pretty much" all of them, not exactly all of them.
I'm well aware of the fact that two elements have been left with CON, which are, btw, the two elements I don't like the most and was never using before unless I was forced to because no other elemental spell was dealing a decent amount of dmg.

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What is really interesting here is that CNJ has been given a class specific ability to greatly increase the potency of it's offensive magic (ask anyone who played BLM in FFXI, we fought tooth and nail for much less than a 20% increase in potency). I strongly believe there is more here than meets the eye, but only time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

BLM gets convert - BLM Abl. 1 O Switches current HP and MP values.
ARC gets refresh - BRD Mag. 1 O Self AoE Gradually restores the MP of all party members within range.
WHM gets benidiction - WHM Abl. 2 O Instantly restores HP of all party members.

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WHM gets Scholar's Sublimation - CON Abl. 4 O Gradually stores MP while reducing HP. Effect fades and stored MP is obtained upon reuse.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Honestly, I love the changes to CNJ and THM. You can actually SEE what they are now. I was tired of all the different spells and crap to use as a THM and all the useless nukes for CNJ.

I can understand how the lore might not make sense now, but remember you voted for this game to be funementally changed. They might be changing what the lore is for 2.0. Just wait and see.

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Agreed, it makes ALOT more sense.. both with Dot's and Offensive attacks.. both have the Ability to heal ( THM= Sac CNJ= Cure) Those classes had no Definition.. they two sides of the same sword... Now they will have definition come 1.20 =).

I see a lot of complaining, which I expected, and some of it is pretty valid. However, a few of the complaints lead me to believe that this is a job for Barbara Bush. CON still has a few options for cures (though they're not as mechanically varied as I had hoped), and it still has DD (of the elements one would expect for a Gridanian class). GLA/PLD has a ton of enmity gain and damage mitigation. THM is the new BLM, which we have known to expect for quite a while. MRD looks like an amazing clutch off-tank/DD, and they have given PGL a unique skillset, relying on MP, which allows you to change your damage type. LNC has sacrificed most of its utility in exchange for more damage. ARC seems to have a proper auto-attack and a lot of extra utility, though it will almost certainly demand a more involved playstyle.

The only thing that seems to be missing is debuffs. My guess: the new DoM class will be coming sooner rather than later, and it will be the debuff class. I'm not saying it'll be here in time for 1.20, but I would expect it within the next 6 months. The combat will suffer without appropriate debuffs and DoTs (it will probably still be better than now, but it'll feel somewhat hollow without this element).

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Originally Posted by Klive

They copied FFIII for the elemetal spells for CNJ.

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What they did copy was everything all the other MMORPGs already have:
Boring classes of which everyone knows what they can do and what not.
What was wrong with letting CON have good nuking abilities solo and acting as a white mage only when the job stone was equipped(usually in parties)?
Why make the entire class a white mage now, depriving it of any need for a job?

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Originally Posted by Hulan

I do not believe he was calling it a nerf so much as a... stylistic difference in opinion. I personally agree. The hybrid DD-support role that LNC was originally imagined as was extremely appealing to me, and this current trend of making them pure DD is somewhat disheartening. That being said, there are plenty of things to like still. I have to say, PGL, for all of the fact that managing your MP may be difficult, sounds absolutely fascinating now.

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Right on. :) Although I did use the word nerf, as changing a support-DD into a DD is exactly what a nerf is to me: removing of its mastering of control. In other words, a nerf. Adding more DD-capability doesn't factor into it, it's that they removed the support capabilities that matters.

And Sephrick..no, I haven't been to the Ifrit battle. Like I said in a previous post I almost exclusively solo and duo. Naturally, if you're an end-game type of person this makes your definitions wildly different from mine when it comes to what a nerf is and what matters in a class.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

What they did copy was everything all the other MMORPGs already have:
Boring classes of which everyone knows what they can do and what not.
What was wrong with letting CON have good nuking abilities solo and acting as a white mage only when the job stone was equipped(usually in parties)?
Why make the entire class a white mage now, depriving it of any need for a job?

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Because I got tired of people adding me to a party as CNJ just so I can heal. Same for THM. I don't ALWAYS want to heal. I like to nuke, and both classes having healing spells was horrible. Now we have distinct classes, and CNJ still has some nuking.

I seriously cant believe people are Defending these Spell Changes..

Yoshida blatantly lied to us by saying the way we play a class will not change.

Worse yet he has done more damage to this games lore than he will ever be able to fix.

On top of that he has completely back tracked on his promise to make this game More Final Fantasy like by distorting all of the "Jobs" he was bringing in supposedly for that purpose.

These Ability changes are awful.

His unnecessary need to restrict the number of abilities a player gains to the number they can equip has sevearly undermined the Capabilities of Almost every class.

There is no Excuse for Gladiator to be Fully Defensive, Paladin is the Tank

There is No reason for Puglist to have elemental skills, they will only gimp it's DMG output against 75% of the enemies.

There is no reason for LNC to become a Glass Cannon

There is no Excuse for completely disregarding Con lore and ripping out all of there offensive capabilities.

MOST IMPORTANTLY

There is Absolutly No Viable Reason to Restrict a MAGE to 15 Skills(Not even 15 spells) when there are Over 100 spells in the history of Final Fantasy. This is Unacceptable. Every Mage should have atleast 30 Spells. They should NOT be able to have them all ready at all times. They SHOULD have a diverse aray of skill that to not directly conflict with the Lore behind their Class.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

1. I said "pretty much" all of them, not exactly all of them.
I'm well aware of the fact that two elements have been left with CON, which are, btw, the two elements I don't like the most and was never using before unless I was forced to because no other elemental spell was dealing a decent amount of dmg.

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Fortunate that both elements come with effects that increase it's own damage, such as DoT and Elemental resistance down. So your concerns about damage are moot.

But seriously, you're complaining that the elements on conjurer are not aesthetically pleasing to you? This isn't Fashion Fantasy.

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There's no variety left, and if I just think about how greatly they changed the difference in dmg of using the element a mob was weak against vs using one it was resistent to, the future for CON looks like a nightmare. :(

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Actually there is MORE variety. The primary gripe was that classes were fairly exchangeable and that there was little unique between them. What you're complaining about isn't that there's no variety in nukes, it's that you thought conjurer was going to be Black Mage. That's it. Nothing is preventing you from taking up Thamaturge either.

The combos here do different things depending on the element. Sure, Thamaturge/Black Mage has more, but you're not without your own choices here. They're just not as gawdawefuly huge compared to a Melee Jobs now.

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Also, lore-wise, it makes no sense CON only has two elements left.
It also makes no sense that THM, who never cared about elements before, now got most of them.
Or PUG, which wasn't even a magic based class to begin with.

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Fatal error in your logic: Assuming Lore is immovable while the mechanics are fair game to change.

Earth and Wind make good forest elements (Water perhaps should be included in that, but we don't know where Water is going right now.) And Conjurer, lore wise, was always about more of a peaceful commune with nature than a violent burst of magical energy.

Thamaturge's 'image' is far more in line with Black Mage than Conjurer (which honestly held more ties with Summoner in my opinion. The mechanics never really agreed with the lore here.)

So this isn't an argument about lore so much of your view of it, and your flawed opinion that lore should not change with the mechanics. None of these hold weight.

You're free to quit. But your reasoning to do so without trying it out first is fairly shallow.

Long post here. Close your eyes if you don't like LENGTH. You 2D monster.

I'm looking at the changes and I see that they have split the elemental nukes between THM and CNJ. I can see why they made these changes, and I don't think this is the end of it to be honest.

It's true that Conjurer seems to lost a majority of its elemental nukes. They're left with Wind and Earth offensive magic. But Conjurer was never an "offensive" class lore-wise anyway. As long as their abilities make use of the elements, it doesn't matter if they have nukes or not. They could've made every single CON spell a buff or heal. As long as it's element based, it still adheres to the lore. Healing spells can also just as easily be Water elemental spells. Although I'm not seeing much in the way of Fire and Thunder element here. But this is only up to level 50. CON could easily pick up other elemental nukes as it gains in levels. Or they can pick up other spells and abilities that are elemental in nature. Even if Earth and Wind remain the only nukes usable by CON, nothing is wrong or out of place here.

About THM, well, the lore has obviously been messed with here. And most of us realized it needed to be messed with if it was going to take on a BLM role. What's more annoying is that it's lost most of its enfeebles. but as has already been pointed out, enfeebling spells/abilities have been spread out among all the classes. So it's not like enfeebling has been removed completely. ARC can Stun, Blind, and Bind. CON can Heavy. LNC can Stun. PUG can Blind, Stop, Slow, and Stun. MRD can Heavy, Weaken Attack, and Amnesia. GLD can stun. And just about everyone and their mom can DoT. So I think we're pretty much well covered for now

But I know what you're thinking. BLM only get 3 elements? What the heavenly hellhole is the deal with that? Well, to begin with, only a handful of FF games ever gave BLM more than Thunder, Fire, and Blizzard. And sometimes later on you got Quake. If they are going more traditional with these jobs, 3 out of 4 so far ain't a bad record. And since the description says THM/BLM uses 6 elements, I have a feeling the others will show up. Just later than those who have played FFXI before are used to. It's not terribad to NOT have every element at your disposal from the very start, when most of you only pick 2 or 3 nukes and stick with them for all of your playing career to begin with. It was even worse in FFXI, when you had every element under the sun but only Thunder and Blizzard were worth using in the end.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I seriously cant believe people are Defending these Spell Changes..

Yoshida blatantly lied to us by saying the way we play a class will not change.

Worse yet he has done more damage to this games lore than he will ever be able to fix.

On top of that he has completely back tracked on his promise to make this game More Final Fantasy like by distorting all of the "Jobs" he was bringing in supposedly for that purpose.

These Ability changes are awful.

His unnecessary need to restrict the number of abilities a player gains to the number they can equip has sevearly undermined the Capabilities of Almost every class.

There is no Excuse for Gladiator to be Fully Defensive, Paladin is the Tank

There is No reason for Puglist to have elemental skills, they will only gimp it's DMG output against 75% of the enemies.

There is no reason for LNC to become a Glass Cannon

There is no Excuse for completely disregarding Con lore and ripping out all of there offensive capabilities.

MOST IMPORTANTLY

There is Absolutly No Viable Reason to Restrict a MAGE to 15 Skills(Not even 15 spells) when there are Over 100 spells in the history of Final Fantasy. This is Unacceptable. Every Mage should have atleast 30 Spells. They should NOT be able to have them all ready at all times. They SHOULD have a diverse aray of skill that to not directly conflict with the Lore behind their Class.

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Jumping to conclusions, off that bat before the patch is even out yet. Makes anyones speculation/opinion/ assumed fact Invalid to you actually play the patch, That includes my Opinions and such as well. This happens every patch that gets annouced before coming out.. then when its out.. people are "okay" with it and move on... this is no different.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Because I got tired of people adding me to a party as CNJ just so I can heal. I don't ALWAYS want to heal.

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Grats, now you won't be added to a party for ANYTHING but healing as a CON.
Seeing as you have THM close to 50 too though, I bet you don't mind.

I agree with 14 spells being way to few for magic class. They realy copied this from other MMOS where the mage classes have the same amount of abilities like any other class. The problem is here it doesnt suit Final Fantasy that much.
Giving Conjurer Wind, Earth and Water and giving THM Fire, Lightning and Ice is ok. But restricting mages so much by basicly taking away so many spells makes them just like any DoW class. The only diffrence left is that DoM use MP and DoW use TP.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Grats, now you won't be added to a party for ANYTHING but healing as a CON.
Seeing as you have THM close to 50 too though, I bet you don't mind.

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I wish people would stop bringing up other people Level 50s. So what We all have level 50s. That does not mean we dont want to play the classes again. That does not mean we don't care how these changes effect people who come after us. I for one want this game to be a success. I honestly thought Yoshida might have had a good idea with the class changes.

He has Failed Epicly

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Grats, now you won't be added to a party for ANYTHING but healing as a CON.
Seeing as you have THM close to 50 too though, I bet you don't mind.

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i only got cons for healing anyway so nothing changes, lol

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I wish people would stop bringing up other people Level 50s. So what We all have level 50s. That does not mean we dont want to play the classes again. That does not mean we don't care how these changes effect people who come after us. I for one want this game to be a success. I honestly thought Yoshida might have had a good idea with the class changes.

He has Failed Epicly

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Would you like me to link you to the butthurt report form so you can explain in detail to them the cause of your extreme butthurt?

I'm concerned, but maybe I'm overreacting. I guess we'll have to wait and see.. I'll reserve judgement, but I kinda feel the old FFXI ways creeping up again. I loved FFXI don't get me wrong, but some of the classes with the limitations being placed on them I'm really not sure how they are going to be able to solo or do leves on on their own anymore. The great thing about FFXIV was that you could solo a little bit, and you weren't forced to fight "Easy Prey" mobs for minimal exp when you didn't have enough time to invest in a full party that sitting. You could feel good about what you could accomplish on your own as well as feel awesome about what could be accomplished with a party.

I was hoping they'd stick to what they said and have classes being basically soloable and jobs being for party play, I was really excited for that, but it kinda looks like even the classes are going to be really restricted to things that really just leads into their assigned job's party role. I'm all for getting party type skills on the classes once in awhile, but many of these skills that are being applied to the diminishing skill list seem better for party type situations, which is great and all, but I still want to be able to play on both solo and party, and be able to interchange between the two roles as situations and time allows, and still have an option to be successful.


Kinda wish they would have separated out the skills between classes and jobs more and left each as it's own entity, but with similar attributes..

Just seems our utility classes are just becoming ghetto versions of their assigned jobs in some cases. I would very much like to be mistaken, so if there is something I'm missing or not understanding correctly please (kindly) tell me so I won't be thinking of this wrong, but this is my initial impression with what they've released.

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Originally Posted by Tacotaru

Would you like me to link you to the butthurt report form so you can explain in detail to them the cause of your extreme butthurt?

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Yeah, Hes jumping to Conclusions for one, and for two.. saying Yoshi-P lied when hes doing the exact opposite is just making him look like an " Fill in blank"

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Jumping to conclusions, off that bat before the patch is even out yet. Makes anyones speculation/opinion/ assumed fact Invalid to you actually play the patch, That includes my Opinions and such as well. This happens every patch that gets annouced before coming out.. then when its out.. people are "okay" with it and move on... this is no different.

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People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

If these changes are awful when they are implemented, we are stuck with them. Yoshida doesn't have the benefits of trying something and then changing it if it doesn't work. They spent all that Credit on the release. He is literally on a forced march forward and can never look back.

If something looks awful to you, you need to speak up now. Once it's in the game, it's there to stay. They can adjust potency and difficult. Simple adjustment can be made in the future. A system overhaul like this is a one shot deal.

If it looks bad, speak up. You will not get a second chance.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

If these changes are awful when they are implemented, we are stuck with them. Yoshida doesn't have the benefits of trying something and then changing it if it doesn't work. They spent all that Credit on the release. He is literally on a forced march forward and can never look back.

If something looks awful to you, you need to speak up now. Once it's in the game, it's there to stay. They can adjust potency and difficult. Simple adjustment can be made in the future. A system overhaul like this is a one shot deal.

If it looks bad, speak up. You will not get a second chance.

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People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

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Right back at ya, but have fun crying like a baby

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Originally Posted by Katella_Avenlea

-snip-

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What has led you to believe soloing will be hard? In fact, I can foresee it becoming easier, as many of the "new" skills seem VERY useful, and there's still all the traits, which haven't been revealed yet.

Yeah, maybe conjurer will need to level THM a bit to get more nukes and maybe pug will need to learn those MP refreshers, but it's not like we currently have to level CNJ, PUG, LNC and THM to effectively solo with any class, right? Oh wait, we do.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

That's telling you that list is coming for 1.20.. Other WS/Abilities etc are coming along side with "Jobs"

That's worded as more coming to me.. but w/e =)

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No it doesnt, i think it is fairly clear:

"The following is a listing of changes to actions planned for patch 1.20, along with those to be introduced alongside the implementation of jobs in 1.21."

Break it down.

The following (the above stuff) is a listing of changes for actions planned in the patch
ALONG
with those to be introduced (those job skills seen above) alongside the implementation of jobs in 1.21

Its saying here are the changes to Actions and since we only have classes atm it displays then and it is also displaying job skills along with it which will come with the implementation of jobs in 1.21.

Its clear. The way you are thinking about it, they'd be no Job skills shown because how you think of it, is that more skills with come along with jobs when they are released, but its showing all the skills there.

eg:

"Here is a list of 10 pies and 5 potatos. The listings are changes for the next patch along side the ones introduced in the potato system in the future patch."

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Originally Posted by viion

No it doesnt, i think it is fairly clear:

"The following is a listing of changes to actions planned for patch 1.20, along with those to be introduced alongside the implementation of jobs in 1.21."

Break it down.

The following (the above stuff) is a listing of changes for actions planned in the patch
ALONG
with those to be introduced (those job skills seen above) alongside the implementation of jobs in 1.21

Its saying here are the changes to Actions and since we only have classes atm it displays then and it is also displaying job skills along with it which will come with the implementation of jobs in 1.21.

Its clear. The way you are thinking about it, they'd be no Job skills shown because how you think of it, is that more skills with come along with jobs when they are released, but its showing all the skills there.

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I understand now, thanks for clearing things up =)

*Looks at your Edit* Now Im Hungry.. :P

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Originally Posted by Kiote

People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

If these changes are awful when they are implemented, we are stuck with them. Yoshida doesn't have the benefits of trying something and then changing it if it doesn't work. They spent all that Credit on the release. He is literally on a forced march forward and can never look back.

If something looks awful to you, you need to speak up now. Once it's in the game, it's there to stay. They can adjust potency and difficult. Simple adjustment can be made in the future. A system overhaul like this is a one shot deal.

If it looks bad, speak up. You will not get a second chance.

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you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

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Originally Posted by Katella_Avenlea

Just seems our utility classes are just becoming ghetto versions of their assigned jobs in some cases. I would very much like to be mistaken, so if there is something I'm missing or not understanding correctly please (kindly) tell me so I won't be thinking of this wrong, but this is my initial impression with what they've released.

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I'm going to say you're not too far off in what's you're seeing. Yeah, THM is basically a mini-BLM now. No, Sac, raise, or enfeebles. It might as well be a completely different class. As to whether or not it can solo well, that remains to be seen. Sure, you won't be able to solo the way you had before. You'll have to relearn the class. BLMs in FFXI had no problems soloing, and although THM lost heals and enfeebles, it seems as though it's gained a ton of offensive power. So soloing just might involve crowd controlling and nuking things to death. And sure, that's not what the THM populace signed up for. And I honestly sympathize with that. But it's literally the end of the class as you know it. Gotta roll with the punches or move on, cause I can guarantee you not much can possibly be done about it. The same can be said about every other class change. Only a small minority is gonna think these changes suck. And that's not enough to get Yoshi-P's butt moving to change things.

You know, because of this debate, I went back and looked over the abilities with an eye specifically for an offensive CNJ build. I think it has a lot of potential. Grab the cross class spells and abilities from THM and a fill your remaining two slots with ARC emnity- abilities. Between CNJ's ability to increase it's own offensive magic power, and reduce/regain MP over time, it could be a real powerhouse offensively. You sacrifice WHM, but that's only to be expected; you can't have the best of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

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That's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it?

You claim that the problem with the forums is that everyone takes a black/white position, but to claim as such, you'd have to be seeing only the black and white positions yourself.

The issue here isn't 'looking at the positives' vs 'looking at the negatives' personal opinions on speculation are just that.

The issue here is that people are jumping to conclusions without the patch being out. That's the divide. One side is saying "Wait and see." While the other is saying "OMG I'M GONNA RAGE QUIT NAOZ!"

Even if the patch on paper involves tropes you might disagree with, the gameplay itself may be enjoyable enough to keep you on. As billing won't commence til sometime after the post is out, give it a shot first to confirm your opinion. There's no harm in that. For as much time and so called loyalty you've invested into the game at this point, that alone should encourage you to give it a chance.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

You know, because of this debate, I went back and looked over the abilities with an eye specifically for an offensive CNJ build. I think it has a lot of potential. Grab the cross class spells and abilities from THM and a fill your remaining two slots with ARC emnity- abilities. Between CNJ's ability to increase it's own offensive magic power, and reduce/regain MP over time, it could be a real powerhouse offensively. You sacrifice WHM, but that's only to be expected; you can't have the best of both worlds.

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Yep, that's one the points of these changes. In fact, it looks they managed to keep the armory system and skill mixing relevant, and at the same time made each class unique.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

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Tanaka was wrong. Disagreements happen, and from conflict comes resolution. Most people will argue their side solely, even if they do see the merits of the other viewpoint. This is how arguments work. Arguing is good.

Personally, I like the changes because combat is currently broken. Sure, it's much better than it was 6 months ago, but it's still broken. Combat changes have been good so far, so I'm going to continue my present optimistic attitude toward changes until I see a reason not to. I have a hard time with people who are upset about the solidification of roles, as there has been plenty of information regarding the roles the different classes will fill. There has been time to change course and modify your expectations.

As for soloing... it doesn't look broken to me. Every class, with the exception of Gladiator, appears to retain solo ability. I could be wrong here, but if you think there's a class that has lost solo ability based on these ability lists, please say which one, and I will gladly explain how I think you're mistaken. As for Gladiator... well, see the next paragraph.

We have been told there will be 15 abilities per class at level 50. Given the fact that other than the DoMs, each class has less than 10 abilities listed, it is safe to assume that these lists are not complete. I imagine that the remaining abilities will fill in some of the gaps that the current list leaves open. This intent of this list seems to be to clarify roles. I'm sure the unlisted abilities will address things such as Gladiator's solo ability and LNC's complete loss of utility. Of course, this is just speculation, other than the fact that these lists are not complete (that is clear).

EDIT: Belay my last paragraph. My count is thrown off because of the funky indentations on comboed WSs. After recounting, each list seems complete. My apologies. It does seem that soloing as Gladiator will be painfully slow. Here's hoping that something can be done about that.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Grats, now you won't be added to a party for ANYTHING but healing as a CON.
Seeing as you have THM close to 50 too though, I bet you don't mind.

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That's the point though, I wanted to cast nukes on CNJ because they had them. Now they only have 2.

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Worse yet he has done more damage to this games lore than he will ever be able to fix

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Must I say this again? People voted for this game to be fundementally changed, and that's what they are doing. The lore could change, NO ONE KNOWS YET so please quit jumping to conclusions about this.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

That's the point though, I wanted to cast nukes on CNJ because they had them. Now they only have 2.



Must I say this again? People voted for this game to be fundementally changed, and that's what they are doing. The lore could change, NO ONE KNOWS YET so please quit jumping to conclusions about this.

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Don't you hate that? People jump to Conclusions all the time in these forums.. its nothing new >.>

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Originally Posted by TinnySnips

Here's hoping that something can be done about that.

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Cross class skills.