Square Enix: Please reconsider putting the Native American war bonnet attire in-game.

I see this post with 28 pages about worrying about Native Americans and figured I would take this opportunity to bring awareness to the Dakota Access Pipeline project that has a dirty oil pipe running straight through Sioux Tribe land that should be protected under treaty. When built, the pipeline will stretch more than 1,100 miles from oil fields in North Dakota to a river port in Illinois. The tribe claims that the pipeline—which climate activists portray as a sequel to Keystone XL—could threaten their sole water source and that, more importantly, they were not consulted before the pipeline was approved.

Around 7kNative Americans have gathered at #StandingRock to try to halt the construction of this pipeline and protect the water supply that is not only for the Sioux but is used for millions of people down the river and on top of that the pipeline would have the same impact as emissions from 21.4 MILLION cars each year!

Hop on social media and retweet some of the news reports surrounding the #NoDAPL or #StandingRock it could really help.

http://www.commondreams.org/sites/de...y1-615x344.jpg

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Originally Posted by Arrelaine

We have two tribal beast tribes in the game... The Vanu and Ixali are both based off a mix of aboriginal cultures.

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A unique mix, suited to Eorzea. Not simply a piece of real world gard shoehorned in to be PC.

I fail to see the problem of adding a piece of clothing, often used in historical/fictional depictions of 1 culture, while we have multiple pieces of clothing, often used in historical/fictional depictions of other cultures. If you don't like it, don't use it. Besides, are you (OP) of Native American descend? If not why complain about it at all, let alone 2-dimensional art assets slapped over a bundle of polygons. It wasn't stolen from a grave site, from someone's family belongings, and no birds were harmed in the making of it.

So look I have native blood in me but to be honest I don't care I think it's pretty cool there trying to include cultural items in the game that other cultures would otherwise not be exposed to

You can take your bonnet back if its that offensive, but give me the poncho thing.

I'm pagan, and yet people continue to slay my gods in video games. Does it bother me? Sometimes yes, but people do have the right to be creative in a fantasy setting. That's why it's called fantasy. You can explore an entire world, and do whatever you want. It's purely imagination, maybe someone on the team admires native dress.

3.3 brought us cowboys (right), 3.4 will give us native american gear. We got tuxedos, butler- and maid-attire, sailor-gear, arabic-styled gear, kimonos and much more already.

I wonder when we get some Lederhosen and Dirndls (Germoney approves) xD

I am a Native American, and I see no issue with it, its a game.

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Originally Posted by Tevatron

I understand Japan has a different sensibility of what constitutes racism, bigotry, and appropriation, but given that this game is localised for different regions and given America has just recently been dealing with this exact issue and many Native Americans finding the appropriation and debasement of war bonnets offensive, perhaps this isn't appropriate in the NA-localisation.

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okay here goes


first of all, you got a hacked view on what really culture is. Heritage, pride, great. And I'm a;so of Native American blood. Youre mad cause this is an "honor symbol" and then blame the cultural neglegence of the development team for "being too asian"

You find this headgear honorable, then glamour it, move to balmung and rp your native american pride, PROUD to have this gear even aknowledged as an option,in a modern VIDEO GAME.
every reply to this is right, youre overreacting with the wrong set of perspective. THANK GOD your culture got recognition in a supposed 6 million subscribers mmorpg played ACROSS the EARTH. Why are you upset about this? Maybe someone in France, liking this adornment learn about Native American culture when they look up 'Native American War bonnet' on google or something, who cares? If anything adding this option is a godsend and gateway to thoee who may be interested in the culture and learn about its heritage. Why would you be against this at all?

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

/hug Yes you can :)

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*hugs* I love the way you worded it. I'm Ojibwa(Chippewa) and even though it is annoying they went with the full head-dress as the outfit, (only for its outplayed), I appreciate the fact its even been implemented, and if it means my culture is being admired even in the slightest, or it inspires one younger kid to use google or pick up a book about my people. or any other tribe, I'm happy for it. To me, outfits like these help remind the world we exist, so we don't become some ill forgotten minority that only government restitution/stipends remembers.

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Originally Posted by birdy_reene

*hugs* I love the way you worded it. I'm Ojibwa(Chippewa) and even though it is annoying they went with the full head-dress as the outfit, (only for its outplayed), I appreciate the fact its even been implemented, and if it means my culture is being admired even in the slightest, or it inspires one younger kid to use google or pick up a book about my people. or any other tribe, I'm happy for it. To me, outfits like these help remind the world we exist, so we don't become some ill forgotten minority that only government restitution/stipends remembers.

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Powhatan, myself and I do agree with the tenacity of the design but I am super glad that our culture gets such recognition even before the second expansion, can you imagine? So many cultures out there that havent been touched yet! I'm glad they implemented it, with how lore rich this game is and to this point euro-centric as it is.

first PC is killed freedom of speech. Second there many thing out there that is offensive in are world one must learn to look past them. I seen nothing wrong with adding the war bonnet i am one that thought cool add beast master job taught a native american themed group in ffxiv. Sometime people say something that is offensive you need be able look past it sometime it help you sometime it doesn't this why people need develop thick skins. If every time people cried PC on something then people will continue to be children in adult body. Look the world is full of thing that offensive sometime they help I happen be christian, I learn a long time ago that the world won't away see world though my desire way of look at it. this the really world folks it not, I don't get offend when i see thing like The vault or like the last supper. Or when then a boss in Aery has an ability called the fall of man. even though that isn't correct word for said ability it should called serpent temperature.

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Originally Posted by Shofie

I brought this up because it's worth bringing it to the developer's attention, which is my intent with this thread

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Honestly, take every constructive criticizing posts as a lesson so you never do it ever again.

( Im talking about speaking on someone else's behalf )

the problem with this thread is simple if say one type of cultural item is wrong then you say you cant do any cultural items. there are both weapons and attire that are considered sacred in many cultures. it is naive to say the issue is only the war bonnet cause in essence your saying your culture is the only important one. i for one admire the native american culture and think it would be amazing to be able to be done up like such a noble and awesome warrior. i can respect your appreciation for your culture but this world is a mixture of cultures and games like this give us a chance to blend them. we all need to start thinking like we are one world of people not thousands of cultures.

With this outlook they may as well not put in any form of cultural anything cause it's gonna offend someone anyway, happens every time, This is a game guys, there are worse things that can happen lol

All wonderful and different an are awesome to be use in fantasy no we don't need think of one world sir we are people who are so different are culture are different are belief are different. We raised differently we taught different we world that have thousand unique different they should be accept not force everyone embrace a one world view. We not creative to be same we created to be different and that should accept not force to the side are nations are different. look no two christian have same belief they very different at times, Nobody will seen world through one person belief this very is shallows, We need accept that we have past that different that we must be able look to learn for the mistake of those that came before us. History has taught us that we shouldn't force people accept what one world belief system, that end in bloody and horrible ends. look at Roman catholic inquisition they believe by torture the where help people return to faith in the church they where wrong.
We have History to remind Us of these mistake so we don't repeat them.

That be said the line above me said it best this a video game we here to have fun thanks

That outfit shown on the trailer looks a lot closer to Peru/Inca clothing than Native American due to the colours used

Honestly, i find this thread very pointless, why?

Because the only people that are allowed to take offense to this item are the natives themselves, if they have not raised any objections about, then none of you here are allowed to say otherwise. Just because it seems offensive to you doesn't mean it is offensive to the native people themselves.

We have to remember something else, this is a GAME!!! It's not making fun of any racial steriotypes, religion and etc. I read here someone speak of the Thavanarian outfit and everyone dismissed it, and that is a very good example! It's based on Arabic/Persian clothing but because everyone thinks it's cute and shows belly it's ok and should be dismissed from this subject?

They implemented these outfits to show that they want every kind of people to feel at home in FF14 and now they are trying to reach for the natives, showing that they can come to this game and have their characters dress with native oufits.

To sumarize : If you are not native, you are not allowed to complain about this outfit.

This is why our world doesn't evolve, because we are not treating each other equally, and instead we try to find offensive things to complain about.

I realy hope we can dye those Native American war attire.

Like iv said, I think what has people upset is that the argument implies that if you don't think it wrong, then you must be racist yourself. And so they are responding in aggressive defense.

Now I myself do not find it racist. As I said in my first post on the thread "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" The only thing I can think of that would make offensive, is if the tied it with the Golden Saucer. To make like an Indian Casino reference.

But this outfit being offensive or not should still be able to be discussed in respectful ways.

This game implements bosses based on major religious and cultural figures and then let us slaughter them repeatedly. As long as the game isn't doing something with the clothing in a way that could be seen as degrading there shouldn't be any issue.

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Originally Posted by Ashewalker

Honestly, i find this thread very pointless, why?

Because the only people that are allowed to take offense to this item are the natives themselves, if they have not raised any objections about, then none of you here are allowed to say otherwise. Just because it seems offensive to you doesn't mean it is offensive to the native people themselves.

We have to remember something else, this is a GAME!!! It's not making fun of any racial steriotypes, religion and etc. I read here someone speak of the Thavanarian outfit and everyone dismissed it, and that is a very good example! It's based on Arabic/Persian clothing but because everyone thinks it's cute and shows belly it's ok and should be dismissed from this subject?

They implemented these outfits to show that they want every kind of people to feel at home in FF14 and now they are trying to reach for the natives, showing that they can come to this game and have their characters dress with native oufits.

To sumarize : If you are not native, you are not allowed to complain about this outfit.

This is why our world doesn't evolve, because we are not treating each other equally, and instead we try to find offensive things to complain about.

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You really think that's how anything has ever gotten accomplished?

When the U.S ended slavery, do you think it happened from black slaves running into the White House and telling Abraham Lincoln why slavery is wrong?

When women were given the right to vote, it was discussed, debated and decided in a court room of no one but men.

When speaking for LGBT equality, who's words would have more meaning? Me, some random gay guy- or straight Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton?

This common idea that any group can complain about another group, but only members of said group can defend against it.....no.

to quote you
"This is why our world doesn't evolve, because we are not treating each other equally, and instead we try to find offensive things to complain about."
You can't really complain about people not treating everyone equally in the same breath of you advocating a division of each group that only deals with their own groups issues.

The irony about saying only Native players should debate this issue, is how two posters who say they are native and are not offended by this keep getting used as an example to keep it in. While another two posters who say they are native, and say this outfit is an issue, are either getting ignored of or being responded to by saying something like...
https://s12.postimg.org/jm2vva5u5/untitled.jpg
So basically it's being said, if you are native and support the outfit, then your opinion matters. But if you are a native, and you see this as an issue, then you are just being "sensitive" and "difficult" and need to get over it?

For people who believe this outfit should only be discussed by native players...then it would only make sense for you to also believe that the item should only be available to Native players.

Could someone post a picture cause I don't remember seeing any native american headdress in the game, unless it a upcoming item or something.

Honestly, I just hope it's all dyeable.

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Originally Posted by Masquerade

For people who believe this outfit should only be discussed by native players...then it would only make sense for you to also believe that the item should only be available to Native players.

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You didn't understood what i said at all... I didn't said discussed, i said Complained. And did you actualy read everything i wrote?

I wrote that the outfits were a way yo bring people into the game and make them feel at home. But because a outfit of native people is introduced to a popular game, does it make everyone that isn't a native to be allowed to act bitchy for something that doesn't have anything to do with them, when most of them are racists themselves?

For a reason, 2015 and 2016 are being concidered years of the insulted, by people that shouldn't even be insulted in the first place. Of course 2016 is turning to be Year of the Youtubers sueing Youtubers, but eh, whatever...

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Originally Posted by Ashewalker

You didn't understood what i said at all... I didn't said discussed, i said Complained. And did you actualy read everything i wrote?

I wrote that the outfits were a way yo bring people into the game and make them feel at home. But because a outfit of native people is introduced to a popular game, does it make everyone that isn't a native to be allowed to act bitchy for something that doesn't have anything to do with them, when most of them are racists themselves?
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The ending comment of mine was directed at anyone who has made similar statements. But yes, yours is still a part of the group I was directing it to.
"To sumarize : If you are not native, you are not allowed to complain about this outfit."
But very well, for your specific comment, I will swap my own word "discuses" for your word "complained". And this being a racial topic, I am going to give a racial example to make my point.

Back when signs like this were a common sight in the U.S
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...41_468x245.jpg
Things did not change from just black people "complaining" about the injustice to non-white Americans. It changed from the collective effort from every type of person saying that it's wrong and needed to change.

The perfect example for my point would be to quote Coretta Scot King on LGBT right...
"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people. "

That's the world I believe in. Not turning a blind eye or keep silent about someone else plight just because it dose not directly effect myself.
So even tho Coretta Scot King is not a lesbian, I am proud she was so active in LGBT rights. ..Or I proud that she was so "bitchy" (to use your word) about LGBT rights.

But now that's out of the way (at least for now?) I am going to move away from this side subject, and speak of the threads topic.



I just find it to be insensitive and disrespectful that some users are saying things like "Well I'm British, and I want top hats to be removed from the game." as a way to criticize and discredit this threads argument. (unless Brits hold some deep and spirtual meaning to their hats that I am not aware of)

Like iv said, I don't think the item is racist. But I think what has some Native and -non-Native players feeling a little effy about this type of thing, is not the use of the image itself, but in the fashion that it's being introduced.
It's a "custom" It's taking something that is considered very important to specifics groups of people, and categorizing it to be sold on the same shelf as a monster mask, clown hair, and a Batman cape at Walmart. (and for anyone who needs this pointed out to them, no: I am not saying there is a walmart or a Batman cape in Final Fantasy. I am comparing the in-game introduction of the item to the real world item)
It's more about dignity then anything else.

There is a big difference between racism and offensive. Racism takes thought and energy. It's premeditated. Being offensive can happen by accident. One is the product of thought, where the other is from the absents of thought.

The more productive approach to this, rather than debating if it's right or wrong, and if players are "good" or "bad" people for feeling the way they feel about it; would be a thread titled "In honor of the new headdress here is little history that it was inspired by."

There are a few posters on here that sound to be very knowledgeable about it. For one of them to type up a history lesson thread connected with this new item, could be worth the time.

And sure, only a small percentage of people who play the game visit these forums, and would read that thread. But to educated 10 out of 1000 people is not a wasted effort.

Develop game one must have base point to base game when come to mmo. every fantasy game use medvil building to do this. as well it culture. The left in USA has become like holy roman empire want everyone accept they view and not will accept they going down path lead to the nation to ruins. People see anything involve culture that difference then another person use as taboo. but what animal culture for example Miq'ue have pride system to they families. the Nunh is example of male lion his mates are like lioness. while the keeper of moon are opposites.

Don't take all us american like we for PC.

you seen two native american on this thread express how they apprecate the act on SE part and would love see it.

I remember in the development of heavenward Yoshi P toke trip to a castle make sure they got it right.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Could someone post a picture cause I don't remember seeing any native american headdress in the game, unless it a upcoming item or something.

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https://i.gyazo.com/87a3bfbb85d1f9c2...ea3412f3f2.png

I'm Native (Mandan) and I'm a little too busy trying to raise awareness about the whole DAPL fight going on right now to give a damn about a vaguely plains tribe-ish looking outfit in an MMO.
Obligatory link -> http://www.democracynow.org/topics/dakota_access

But to give my serious thoughts: I do have issues with people wearing warbonnets as costumes and for ~*funsies*~ in real life; but this is in a game set in a fantasy world where the same history doesn't exist in context. If anything maybe this outfit will spark an interest in people to learn more about Native culture (be it plains tribes or any other tribe) and allow more awareness to be spread regarding the issues that our tribes still face in the modern age.
I don't think it's right to just say "oh this is bad don't you do it!" and leave it at that. We need to educate people and lead people on the path towards education so they can learn why there's an issue. Only then can progress and acceptance be made between both sides.

I love that outfit

I think there is merit to the concern that it would look questionable to slap Native American themed gear into the casino area.

But if you look closely, that looks like Godbert is wearing the headdress including set. (can't see his forehead dots to be sure....)

With the Saucer being a sort of catch all place for vanity, dances, mounts, and other weird items they add that don't fit in some story somewhere, it has a good possibility of landing there.

Which is just bad luck and innocent intention.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I highly doubt the context in the game will be respectful toward the culture they are borrowing the item from. It almost never is.

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It is most likely that the items under discussion will likely be put into the game as level 1 crafted glamour gear, with no introduction, no commentary, no context. I could be wrong, but most 'fun glamour' has been implemented throughout patches the very same way. Either that or they are Gold Saucer rewards.

Let's be honest, there are LOTS of thing more "problematic" than a war bonnet in the game. Afro hair, macuahuitl, the Prester, Thavrainian equips and emotes, even the Wrangler set can be seen as problematic.

The fact is, however, that these symbols are not implemented in an attempt to mock the cultures they are usually from. They are implemented into Eorzea culture itself, in a manner that not only respects the cultures but creates a fantasy counterpart to them so people can feel represented in the game, an example being when FFXIV launched in Korea and China, they got exclusive cultural items in the game.

No one complained about the thrav set, No one complained about the Sohr Khai/hullbreaker gear, No one complained about any chinese themed gear, heck people asked for it, now suddenly this is a problem? Yet none of those were?

Shofie i don't think what you did is wrong but you might been not well place in your desire to do something good. first off you should do alittle more research the fact the native american just want people remember they culture is really important to them don't mind the fact that redskin in Washington they that name. If i have attack your Character i am sorry. the United State has forgotten the Native american to quickly. they slow being forgotten. I encourage you come don't be afraid of anyone when you go vegas take time get know what your talk about.

there is way we move forward sometime we all wrong at times this time your in wrong. first i suggest you admit that you are wrong and ask for forgiveness we don't hate you. we just disagree with you as you seen are friend who are native american have made good point.

Nobody want to hurt you we just disagree nor do we not like you. see when you sometime wrong in one opinion people point that out they won't hate you for it.It part grown up to admit when your wrong and realize your mistake we all had do it sometimes

Like iv already said, I don't think the item is racist or offensive. But I think what has some Native and -non-Native players feeling a little effy about this type of thing, is not the use of the image itself, but in the fashion that it's being introduced. This conversation always comes up around this time of year.
It's a "custom" It's taking something that is considered very important to specifics groups of people, and categorizing it to be sold on the same shelf as a monster mask, clown hair, and a Batman cape at Walmart. (and for anyone who needs this pointed out to them, no: I am not saying there is a walmart or a Batman cape in Final Fantasy. I am comparing the in-game introduction of the item to the real world item)
It's more about showing dignity and respect then anything else.

There is a big difference between racism and being offensive. Racism takes thought and energy. It's premeditated. Being offensive can happen by accident. One is the product of thought, where the other is from the absents of thought.

The more productive approach to this, rather than debating if it's right or wrong, and if players are "good" or "bad" people for feeling the way they feel about it; would be a thread titled "In honor of the new headdress here is little history that it was inspired by."

There are a few posters on here that sound to be very knowledgeable about it. For one of them to type up a history lesson thread connected with this new item, could be worth the time.

And sure, only a small percentage of people who play the game visit these forums, and would read that thread. But to educated 10 out of 1000 people is not a wasted effort.

As for some users on here...the fact that you are spending more time in trying discredit the OP then to counter the argument itself, says more than you think it does.

so OP can u please explain how exactly some pixel in a virtual world can have some kind of impact on any native american who has earned the war bonet for whatever reason ? :P

or is it just ur personal view , wich dosnt have anything to do with what native americans want in the real world ? :P

I agree to op that this piece can be offensive. Though native Americans may want representation in this game and may enjoy using it, I personally, not being of native descent will not be using it