Dragoon Poll (Should DRG have a Wyvern?)

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I wonder what this poll would look like if there was the third option:

"Like this Post if you wouldn't mind if having a wyvern pet was optional. Totally optional. No loss for not having one."

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Nabiri do you mean the wyvern doesn't do damage and cant die? Like more of an aesthetic tool?

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

I think we have a sufficient poll sample to call it: The majority of players do not want Dragoon altered this late in development to have a pet.

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By this I'm sure you really mean "The majority of players IN THIS THREAD do not want Dragoon altered"

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

On top of that, doing a 180 in the middle of development of the jobs is going to delay patch 1.21.

I'm sure Yoshi-P doesn't want the entire player base mad at him

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OR they could add wyverns as questable and optional sometime after 2.0

Just for fun:

Number (A), it'd technically be a dragon. Generally speaking from a fantasy art perspective, wyverns have no anterior legs, only hind legs and wings, like a bird. (Whereas a Wyrm has none, and a dragon has everything).

Part Deux: Dragons live for a long time. If you're there when that egg cracks and you enjoy your little baby partner for a while, you'll be dead before he even hits puberty. You gonna do that to the poor little guy? You okay with that? I'm not okay with that. And you call me heartless for saying Dragoon should be petless...

I'm practically a dragonist myself for saying he should have a REAL family and we can just be friendly with them.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

I find it amusing that a lot of the people who don't want (stated in post - not the count)don't even have lnc at a substantial level or leveled at all after checking a myriad of names on pro out of curiosity. Seems to make it moot on some level.

Anyway - I'd like a pet.

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I'm Lancer 50 and voted for no dragoon pet

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Originally Posted by Volsung

Nabiri do you mean the wyvern doesn't do damage and cant die? Like more of an aesthetic tool?

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Nope. Does damage and only dies when the dragoon dies.
Also, can't be used for kiting, stops attacking when you're not damaging the monster with your weapon.

Dragoon's damage gets split with wyvern. So you wouldn't be any weaker not having one.

I hope they add the wyvern. We have a black mage (nuking job), white mage (healing job), Pld (tank), War (backup tank/DD), Bard (possibly debuffing, maybe also buffing) and then we have 2 full DDs, Drg and Mnk. What better way to separate these two than having a wyvern for Drg?

Drg in FFXI borrows abilities and AF from the classical dragoon, so if the dragoon job doesn't get a wyvern then it's still getting abilities like jump which dragoon had in FFXI. So adding a lancer job with a wyvern as a class in the future wouldn't be the same, sadly it's a one way road.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

Nope. Does damage and only dies when the dragoon dies.
Also, can't be used for kiting, stops attacking when you're not damaging the monster with your weapon.

Dragoon's damage gets split with wyvern. So you wouldn't be any weaker not having one.

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hmm perhaps something like the wyvern follows you and when you swing your wyvern also strikes and the log automatically separates your lances damage to say 80% and 20% if you would have swung to do 200, the log just says you deal 160 and your wyvern does 40?

idk what you would do about ws

Hi Devs/Reps

My suggestions are...

A) No Pet but Dragoon can use breath attacks

B) Pet but only for the looks, nothing is lost or gained(can also toggle it off)

C) Shared damaged when Pet is out, like few mentioned above

Either would be fine by me, anything to separate the DRG from the other DD classes.

Thank You!

If they do give the option, i'd grab one. But i think it should really be up to the person playing lnc/drg if they want one...make a pet quest, and make it optional to keep it or let it die or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Edgecrusher

If they do give the option, i'd grab one. But i think it should really be up to the person playing lnc/drg if they want one...make a pet quest, and make it optional to keep it or let it die or whatever.

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Nice Idea, you can choose what type of companion you want... you let it die, your LNC gets stronger from the Pet's energy. You choose to have pet, your damaged is shared when its out. also an option just for those that want pet just for the looks.

But i bet people who didn't want pet might come crying back for one. Especially if they implement the "Healing Breath Tactique" from FFXI lol.

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Originally Posted by Reliquia

I am for a wyvern pet, I just liked the company of my loyal pet. Regardless of what the dragoon history has been in the earlier FF games I felt the wyvern made the class a lot more distinct in FFXI. And what better way to make combos than making combos with your wyvern?

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Then why not be for a dragon pet without the Dragoon JOB!? Why not support a dragon for another job like say Dark Knight, where it properly belongs?

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

Yoshida-san has been all about compromise with everythign else. I don't see why they couldn't make the pet optional. If you have it your strength is split between wyvern and dragoon. Also make it so the wyvern only gets K.O.'d when you do and not by itself, so you can't suddenly be knocked down to half strength.
It could be quested, and those who choose not to use it remain at full strength.
There could be lore that makes sense for those who choose to have a wyvern companion.

I don't think I'll play dragoon without a wyvern personally. It just doesn't fit my character.

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Then why not be for a dragon pet without the Dragoon JOB!? Why not support a dragon for another job like say Dark Knight, where it properly belongs?

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

I did and when I was parsed against other DDs they'd be like "loldrg" I reply "Now add Kagero's damage too.." then it ends with "... I hate you! -_-" and I wrap it all up with "IN YO FACE! <3"

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As much as I hate the Dragoon job now, that is pitiful. Any decent DRG could out-DD any other decent melee DPS class in FFXI without the wyvern, all it took was some knowledge and skills. Hell, you'll never find any other job capable of soloing Greater Colibri for 10k xp/hr at 75 (at least pre-abyssea).

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I wonder what this poll would look like if there was the third option:

"Like this Post if you wouldn't mind if having a wyvern pet was optional. Totally optional. No loss for not having one."

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Why not have a dragon pet optional then regardless of class or job or exclusive to a job that actually makes sense to have a dragon pet, like Dark Knight?

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Originally Posted by indira

without a wyvern its a lancer, with a wyvern is a dragoon :)

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Wrong. Lancer is another common name for Dragoon. The name Dragoon is derived from history itself of other Militaristic countries most used firearms but some were horseback lance wielding infantry. In Final Fantasy the only Dragoon class that ever even had a pet was FFXI all the others were iconic dragon armored lancers. Sometime referred to as such either Dragon Knights or Lancers or Dragoons. To me personally the one that really didn't hold up as well as the others was FFXI because they were gimped because they had a pet. Instead of being the incredibly strong solo knight you had to depend on your silly pet for survivability.

I just don't get why everyone is so ANTI wyvern...like even cosmetically i'd like one..no stats whatsoever..i just liked having the lil guy fly around my head. But you're all pulling out pitchforks and torches and rallying to frankenstien's castle to kill the damn monster...calm down, what'd the lil guy ever do to any of you? Geez!

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Then why not be for a dragon pet without the Dragoon JOB!? Why not support a dragon for another job like say Dark Knight, where it properly belongs?

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I don't like the idea of using pets to fight on a non pet job, with everyone having the ability to use them. That chocobo battle thing is a bit sketchy. haha. :x
I wouldn't mind DRK having a wyvern pet, but I think it fits better with Dragoon like in XI. If Yoshida-san said DRK was coming and it would have a wyvern pet, I'd be perfectly happy with that.

But anyways, this discussion is about DRG specifically, and Yoshida-san wants to know if we want a wyvern pet on DRG, and I do.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I don't like the idea of using pets to fight on a non pet job, with everyone having the ability to use them. That chocobo battle thing is a bit sketchy. haha. :x
I wouldn't mind DRK having a wyvern pet, but I think it fits better with Dragoon like in XI. If Yoshida-san said DRK was coming and it would have a wyvern pet, I'd be perfectly happy with that.

But anyways, this discussion is about DRG specifically, and Yoshida-san wants to know if we want a wyvern pet on DRG, and I do.

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I'm saying tying a dragon companionship to either the DRG job or a polearm is asinine, actually. Any sort of Dark Knight or Demonic-related job/class is much better suited for dragon companionship historically when you consider dragons are much closer related to demons and the Dragoon in FF history is known for killing dragons on top of the fact the polearm has historically symbolized killing dragons (AKA King George, Gungnir, etc.) as opposed to dragon companionship (if any weapon should be tied, it'd best be a staff in the case of sorcery or a large sword/axe/scythe for a Dark Knight).

I loved my wyvern pet more than anything in FFXI, but I absolutely hated the Dragoon job until Call Wyvern at least became a 20 minute ability.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

I'm saying tying a dragon companionship to either the DRG job or a polearm is asinine, actually. Any sort of Dark Knight or Demonic-related job/class is much better suited for dragon companionship historically when you consider dragons are much closer related to demons and the Dragoon in FF history is known for killing dragons on top of the fact the polearm has historically symbolized killing dragons (AKA King George, Gungnir, etc.) as opposed to dragon companionship (if any weapon should be tied, it'd best be a staff in the case of sorcery or a large sword/axe/scythe for a Dark Knight).

I loved my wyvern pet more than anything in FFXI, but I absolutely hated the Dragoon job until Call Wyvern at least became a 20 minute ability.

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I don't care about it being tied to any weapon type. And it certainly could be made to fit into the lore.
I just felt Dragoon in XI with the wyvern made it more unique and fun. I don't like pet classes in general, but DRG appealed to me. For me it wouldn't be very interesting without the wyvern, and BST or SMN (or any other pet job) just couldn't replace DRG + wyvern.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I don't care about it being tied to any weapon type. And it certainly could be made to fit into the lore.
I just felt Dragoon in XI with the wyvern made it more unique and fun. I don't like pet classes in general, but DRG appealed to me. For me it wouldn't be very interesting without the wyvern, and BST or SMN (or any other pet job) just couldn't replace DRG + wyvern.

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Well instead of it being just a pet, how about an actual dragon companion that can't just be turned on/off with the switch of a class/job? ;)

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Well instead of it being just a pet, how about an actual dragon companion that can't just be turned on/off with the switch of a class/job? ;)

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No thanks. I enjoyed fighting with my wyvern on DRG. :3

I don' t want a wyvern pet just to have a wyvern pet. I want a pet wyvern on DRG.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

No thanks. I enjoyed fighting with my wyvern on DRG. :3

I don' t want a wyvern pet just to have a wyvern pet. I want a pet wyvern on DRG.

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I'm NOT suggesting a wyvern companion just to have a pet. I am suggesting a dragon companion for the sake of dragon companionship, which would have to bring much more than FFXI. All you had in FFXI was a pet for the sake of a pet, NOT a real companion.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

To me personally the one that really didn't hold up as well as the others was FFXI because they were gimped because they had a pet.

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Well they were not?!!!

why were they gimped?! you are one of those seeing only the weapon dmg of the dragoon arent you? not taking into account, that the wyvern did about 30-40% extra dmg? eh?

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Originally Posted by Dragon

I loved my wyvern pet more than anything in FFXI, but I absolutely hated the Dragoon job until Call Wyvern at least became a 20 minute ability.

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well and you really think that the wyvern in FF14 from today would have a 20 min recast timer? i dont think at all.

and maybe the drg would receive heal reggen skills for their wyvern? a 5min recast?
etc etc.. a wyvern sacrifice abillity which gives him back of about 50% LP instantly and receive the strenght of the pet for a while? who knows what a drg + wyvern pet from today could offer??

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Originally Posted by Dragon

NOT a real companion.

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well for me it was a companion ;D

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

No thanks. I enjoyed fighting with my wyvern on DRG. :3

I don' t want a wyvern pet just to have a wyvern pet. I want a pet wyvern on DRG.

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don't listen to dragon, just another person who is super anti- wyvern who hasnt even touched LNC. They also only think of FFXI DRG and cant think outside of there tiny box, because we all know this game plays exactly like FFXI right?

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Originally Posted by Dragon

I'm NOT suggesting a wyvern companion just to have a pet. I am suggesting a dragon companion for the sake of dragon companionship

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I'm not seeing a difference.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

All you had in FFXI was a pet for the sake of a pet, NOT a real companion.

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I'm not sure what your definition of companion is. Should it have AI and speak to me?
At any rate, I disagree. I never really felt alone fighting alongside my wyvern on XI.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

don't listen to dragon, just another person who is super anti- wyvern who hasnt even touched LNC. They also only think of FFXI DRG and cant think outside of there tiny box, because we all know this game plays exactly like FFXI right?

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I'm anti-wyvern? Get over yourself, I'm not the one that wants it tied to an ANTI-DRAGON job. Why don't you think outside the box for a moment.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I'm not seeing a difference.


I'm not sure what your definition of companion is. Should it have AI and speak to me?
At any rate, I disagree. I never really felt alone fighting alongside my wyvern on XI.

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A companion wouldn't be exclusive to a job so it can just be turned on and off at a job switch, how about that for starters.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

A companion wouldn't be exclusive to a job so it can just be turned on and off at a job switch, how about that for starters.

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Ah, well I've already said, I don't really like pets/"companions" that you fight with that aren't attached by job/(good reason for being there).

I would like if pets/"companions" outside of pet jobs, stayed inside our houses.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

Ah, well I've already said, I don't really like pets/"companions" that you fight with that aren't attached by job/(good reason for being there).

I would like if pets/"companions" outside of pet jobs, stayed inside our houses.

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Then you do just want a pet for the sake of a pet and you do want to tie it to a specific weapon. Make up your mind.

For the "good reason of being there" part, I've been clear on them being there for something more than just being a pet or DPS numbers.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

.......... I'm sure.

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What do I have to level like everyone else does? I level all my support stuff first, then level the class I want to. Hell in FFXI I leveled all jobs to 37, before touching DRG, then I had nothing to do but enjoy DRG all the way to 75. (when cap was 75 of course)

in FFXIV I am leveling all my crafting classes to 20, then leveling all my combat classes to 25, then leveling Lancer to 50, along with Blacksmith and armor. Is that so hard to believe?

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

No thanks. I enjoyed fighting with my wyvern on DRG. :3

I don' t want a wyvern pet just to have a wyvern pet. I want a pet wyvern on DRG.

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I'd rather not have to put Yoshi-P through the headache of doing balancing for Dragoon if a job-specific pet is implemented. I'd rather have it like this: Exclusive mounts for Dragoon.

That way, you ride your f*cking dragon into battle, as opposed to having a tiny, un-rideable little piece of crap flapping next to you like an annoyance.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

Ah, well I've already said, I don't really like pets/"companions" that you fight with that aren't attached by job/(good reason for being there).

I would like if pets/"companions" outside of pet jobs, stayed inside our houses.

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This suggests you want the wyvern to be EXCLUSIVE to dragoon. Read my above statement in this post - this solution completely solves your whining. I don't want my Dragoon being gimpled or weakened just because he has the ability "Call Wyvern".

That is my primary concern. I don't want my Dragoon to be weak in PVP, or in PvE because someone needed to rebalance Dragoon as a pet class.

Look, if you're going to be stubborn, don't talk. If you want a dragoon pet so badly, why don't you just quit FFXIV and go back to XI? There are plenty of people here who do not want the jobs in XIV to be mirrors of their FFXI counterparts.

AND THAT MEANS NO FRIGGIN' WYVERN "PETS" FOR DRAGOON.

The only reasonable exception is in the form of a mount.

P.S. Don't forget that there is a chocobo battle system in development. This can easily be adapted to the Dragoon's mount... :| Seriously, take a big picture perspective here, people.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

What do I have to level like everyone else does? I level all my support stuff first, then level the class I want to. Hell in FFXI I leveled all jobs to 37, before touching DRG, then I had nothing to do but enjoy DRG all the way to 75. (when cap was 75 of course)

in FFXIV I am leveling all my crafting classes to 20, then leveling all my combat classes to 25, then leveling Lancer to 50, along with Blacksmith and armor. Is that so hard to believe?

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...... OK?

Yoshi.....I'll pay double subscription if you dont give us the cute little gecko...

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Originally Posted by Drex

Yoshi.....I'll pay double subscription if you dont give us the cute little gecko...

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I'll offer my talents as a concept artist and writer to Yoshi-P, free of charge, if he keeps the pet system away from Dragoon.

I'll give him a real little dragon to play with.

(I'll train it to bite Yoshi everytime he has doubts about give us or not the pet)

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

I'll offer my talents as a concept artist and writer to Yoshi-P, free of charge, if he keeps the pet system away from Dragoon.

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just stick to your freaking lancer and be quiet... sorry.. but such a damn intolarance is just stupidy.
the only you want is the "dragoon" title descritption thats all. if not you would be satisfied enough with the lancer class itself.

and thats the TRUTH


SE should give those flamers with 2.0. a second job option such as "lame - lancemaster" and i would kick their backsides with my "gimpy" wyvern pet in pvp battles.. to keep those crybabies shutting up.

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P.S. Don't forget that there is a chocobo battle system in development. This can easily be adapted to the Dragoon's mount... :| Seriously, take a big picture perspective here, people.

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and i cant read that f** sh** anymore! an attacking dragon mount? where are we? me as a lalafell is taking out my machine mount like the gnomes in WoW.

And hell yeah.. you dare to speak about "traditional" Dragoons (kain and freya are soo cool *blabla) and speaking about dragon mounts. made my day. seriously.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Then you do just want a pet for the sake of a pet and you do want to tie it to a specific weapon. Make up your mind.

For the "good reason of being there" part, I've been clear on them being there for something more than just being a pet or DPS numbers.

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No, you must have misread something. You are mistaken. Pets for the sake of having pets should stay in houses.
I would like DRG to have a pet wyvern again because it was enjoyable fighting alongside it in XI. I can't see DRG being any other way.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

just stick to your freaking lancer and be quiet... sorry.. but such a damn intolarance is jut stupidy.
the only you want is the "dragoon" title descritption thats all. if not you would be satisfied enough with the lancer class itself.

and thats the TRUTH

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I'm sorry but your childishness is intolerable. Wyvern doesn't make drg a drg. Simply wielding a lance does not make drg a drg. Its the abilities. Lancer itself has no connection to the old drg. Throwing a wyvern on a class and giving it nothing else would not make that class a drg either.

This post shows me how little you understand the system. And believe me I tried to not be mean in these posts and be nice to people, but this is too much. lance and/or wyvern does not a dragoon make.

Jump, dragonic themes, and/or breaths do.

The fact is implementing pet classes is extremely difficult to do perfectly. I was an excellent drg in XI, but that game still has progress to make. I'd rather SE just skip the chance at suck and create a class thats a cross between some of the more notable DRG (Kain and Freya)

I'm not a hater, I love pet classes and versatility. I played PUP. I ran 2x drg/mage merit parties. But this time, drg can be something more. Breaths from the player, Reis Wind, Jumps, critical combos like SE's vision, dragonic themes in their attacks.

So staying "stick to lancer" is a crock, and you know it.

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Originally Posted by Volsung

Throwing a wyvern on a class and giving it nothing else would not make that class a drg either.

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Nobody ever talked about "just give em a pet and thats it" "leave the jump and breathe attacks out" ,... really NO one.

and today you can also do far better design a drg with wyvern than in FFXI they did.


well we first will see what the (non wyvern) drg in 1.21. can offer.
i mean till 2.0. its a really long way.. enough time to patch it around.
ESPECIALLY if they're going to add a second job option for the lancer.

196 vs 64 gogo guys!!!

Don't give up, the end is near for those dragon-pony!!!

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

I'd rather not have to put Yoshi-P through the headache of doing balancing for Dragoon if a job-specific pet is implemented. I'd rather have it like this: Exclusive mounts for Dragoon.

That way, you ride your f*cking dragon into battle, as opposed to having a tiny, un-rideable little piece of crap flapping next to you like an annoyance.

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I don't care for mounts. I just want a wyvern like in XI, but better this time around.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

This suggests you want the wyvern to be EXCLUSIVE to dragoon. Read my above statement in this post - this solution completely solves your whining. I don't want my Dragoon being gimpled or weakened just because he has the ability "Call Wyvern".

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Yes, DRG with Wyvern pet. You must have mistaken someone else's post for mine though, because I haven't been whining at all. :3 Ah, and I've already stated a solution to this, the wyvern can be optional, and share damage if you choose to quest for it and use it, but you could stay strong like before without it. With wyvern perhaps it can use breath attacks and such, without it, perhaps the DRG itself can. This is the only way I can think of for everyone to be happy. I don't know if I'd even call it compromise, because neither side would have to have less. Everyone gets what they want.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Look, if you're going to be stubborn, don't talk.

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That made me laugh. haha. I find it hilarious that you would start a thread with a poll for both sides, then tell the side you disagree with to shut up.
I could say the exact same to you, but that would be rude. ^-^

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

AND THAT MEANS NO FRIGGIN' WYVERN "PETS" FOR DRAGOON.

The only reasonable exception is in the form of a mount.

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That's interesting but, Yoshida-san was asking if we'd like a wyvern as a pet for DRG again, and if we do he'd look into it. So I wouldn't be so sure until he says it won't happen.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

P.S. Don't forget that there is a chocobo battle system in development. This can easily be adapted to the Dragoon's mount... :| Seriously, take a big picture perspective here, people.

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I haven't forgotten. I'm just not interested in such a thing. Is this big picture called "SilvertearRen's opinion"?

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

SNIP.

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You resorted to flaming just because I am standing firm on my position? You just lost the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

SNIP!

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Given that you're willing to say that the Wyvern can be optional, I can go with that.

More choices is always better. Just don't be surprised if I execute a Super Jump on you and your Wyvern for 3,000 damage apiece. :3

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Originally Posted by Drex

196 vs 64 gogo guys!!!

Don't give up, the end is near for those dragon-pony!!!

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people like you arent sympathetic ;D ^