I don't see how they could or even would do what most are asking here OP without pissing off a good massive chunk of the player base... me being one of them. I have my issues with some of the story, mainly a huge part of the stuff in the beginning until 2.5 or something. - The last part before HW honestly is where I got invested. - But I wouldn't want that cut, otherwise what'll end up happening is people will be rushing to endgame with no idea how things work. Not saying the story is prefect and teaches you everything you need to know. But on the other hand all shortcuts do is hurt the experience if experience in other mmos have taught me anything.
If the story grind is that bad just skip everything, I have a friend who got to the end in a week. And he didn't skip anything, and works a fulltime job. You can do it. Just enjoy the ride. Cause once you hit endgame it's nothing but a grind, with no movies either. Just load, punch, heal, stab, flash, shoot, poof, target and loot until the next patch. Which drives people away cause noone likes the grind. Want proof? Look at the relic quest.
-
06-02-2016, 11:16 AMcammi
-
06-02-2016, 02:14 PMLexiaYes this is one of the reason almost a year after heavensward release that gathering items still have good value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snugglebutt
-
06-02-2016, 02:20 PMLexiaXIV is not a sandbox MMO, as you said there a certain way the game tells you to do stuff and on top of that the community will go further to tell other how to play on top of how the game tells you how to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
-
06-02-2016, 02:25 PMMetalwrath
Also in terms of raid content there hasn't been any decent raid content since they finished with Coil.
Alex Savage isn't worth powering through the game for.You'd get more interest from watching paint dry. -
06-02-2016, 02:51 PMFelisJust choose one of the 3 other voice languagesQuote:
Originally Posted by Cwestcott18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhWWh_t_LUc -
06-02-2016, 03:03 PMChiramu
To get new people into the game fast the devs will have to think of a way to get the story out to the newcomers and let them start with everyone else straight away. A "story so far..." would be an idea they could use.
The story is not good to sit newcomers through if SE wants to keep them. I know you guys are saying all sorts about how it's a "story-driven" MMORPG but the fact is, this will not keep new customers if new expansions are revealed. How tedious is it for those new people will it be if they have to slog through sets of story content just to get to where everyone else is?
The longer the story gets the less likely new players will want to start up unless there is a "story so far..." recap. -
06-02-2016, 03:18 PMbass9020They still need to level up so regardless they have to do ARR. Do people actually purchase games thinking they can skip almost the whole thing? Why is this brought up every single time. What are we going to hand out level 50 characters to people and call it a day? This isn't wow or any other stupid game that does that(its bad enough the new jobs started at level 30). They will get to where everyone else is WHEN THEY GET THERE. The amount of entitlement in this thread is horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
Also do you speak for all new people? Are you the voice of the new people like a bunch of others on this thread? You guys should form a little group together I think that would be cute. -
06-02-2016, 03:44 PMSnugglebuttThey better not and I feel extremely strongly about this because any idea which allows RMT and their bot armies to skip through into HW and beyond...infecting and infesting those zones/cities is not something I would agree with. Most new players I have personally met actually like the fact this game is so story centric, has such investment in main story questing. Especially fans of FF in general out of them who get to feel partially like they are getting the benefit of the single player games focus on story and characters while at same time containing MMO features. Some of them would like it if the fetch quests were streamlined but in the sense of taking less time to do them rather than cutting them from the game. The truth is there will always be people who want things faster and without putting in same effort as everyone else (WoW does this with their paid for leveling service option aka P2W), however it doesn't mean they should always get what they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
I would be very much against a "story so far..." then straight into HW zones and future new zones. It would allow RMT to get a stranglehold once more doing the same thing en masse instead of remaining trapped in ARR zones like they are now. Any changes SE makes to this aspect must be minor (reducing quest items need to collect from 20 to 5 as an example I gave earlier cutting down time takes to do them but still existing), the current main story gating along with it's long list of dungeons and trials must remain to keep bot armies and RMT out of new content/zones in my opinion. For example if they add any new zones from this point on then that should require completion of ARR main story and getting access to HW, from that point on it doesn't need any additional gating because no RMT or bot armies will infect those new zones just from the HW gating alone.
In the end you can't please everyone but I can guarantee it will annoy a lot more people if removed that current gating and by proxy allowing RMT and the bot armies to infest newly added content like they have with ARR cities and zones. I have not seen since HW came out a single RMT city chat spammer or a single RMT bot army in any HW zones or cities thanks to the current ARR>HW gating. New classes, features, items, mounts and other such things does not have to be behind that current gating but in terms of new zones and cities I think it does. Let's also not pretend that everyone is away in HW or doing endgame raiding, that new players are all alone trying to catch up since between alt classes, alt characters, SE incentives for doing older content, FC's helping out and other new players around there is no shortage of people to play with along the way to enjoy the journey with. This isn't candy crush or flappy bird, the journey actually matters in this game and should continue to do so. -
06-02-2016, 04:47 PMBelhi
What they said back when it was being discussed at HW's launch is that for 4.0 they would probably allow people to start the 4.0 content without having to go through all the HW patch content and such. Instead they would have to create some kind of 'the story so far' so people starting the 4.0 story without going trough all 3.X will know what is going on.
That said, they aren't going to let people just jump straight to lvl 60. Your still going to have to level up a Job to 60 and get enough gear that you don't get oneshot the moment you step into the new zones. Being able to get to the new zones and having the required lvl and gear are two entirely different things.
That said, the lack of bots and such in the HW zones is a very nice bonus of the system. -
06-02-2016, 05:09 PMXellos2099
Think back in XI, COP and TOAU don't really share the same time framr but COP certainl;y take place right after ROZ ending.
-
06-02-2016, 05:23 PMNestamaI dunno about that. Promathia didn't require you to finish Zilart (heck, the time lines between the two games could be "at the same time" or "did before that," however it did require Zilart to be finished if you wanted to do Apocalypse Nigh (which also required you to finish the Promathia storyline as well).Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos2099
-
06-02-2016, 07:56 PMYasuhiroThat's the problem, sorry if I'm generalizing but a lot of WoW players do move over here and expect WoW 2.0, like I said before, I don't know what rock these people live under and not know what FF is about when they hear about XIV. A lot of these people making complaints will get bored of FFXIV and go back to WoW once Legion comes out so they can collect their boar butts. Seriously, people, Final Fantasy is a recognizable brand that's been around for years, do some research on it before coming over to this and complaining about Final Fantasy tropes, you just get laughed and be told to go back to World of Warcraft most the time on image boards and other forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass9020
Edit: You don't have to like XIV's story, I most certainly don't I think it's hot garbage but it comes packaged with a numbered FF title and I'm fine with that, I'm a Final Fantasy fan and I am this game's target audience. -
06-02-2016, 08:32 PMMiles_Maelstrom
I see a lot of people accusing people who complain of being ex-WoW players or that they hate story. The example I gave in the beginning of this thread was neither. My Brother and his GF, aren't planning on quitting over this, they seem to be in for the long haul they have just been slowly becoming more and more annoyed with it. It's understandable really, that long stretch of quests at 50 lack something.
Do you see any threads complaining about the story in the leveling process between 1 to 50, no and why is that? What that has over the long stretch at 50 is your own characters progression. You maybe doing some quests that seem trivial at time, those "fetch" quests, but they seem less boring and monotonous because you are progressing your character. During the level 50 quest wall, you are no longer progressing your character you're stagnating. Players can feel that. The quests themselves basically all give no reward besides story and some don't even give that.
I do not want to be able to skip the story, but they need to streamline it. A lot of the quests during this time were plain busy work to keep us placated until the next patch. Many do not contribute to the story at all. Like when we needed that cart to make a delivery, but the driver's chocobo was smelly and wanted the player to get him some chocobo perfume to help. That is not important to the story arc. SE could go through determine now which are story essential and which aren't and make them side quest or MSQ based on their content. I can help right now a lot of the quests that involve the actual set-up of the new base are not story essential, movers can do that off screen and nothing of value would be lost.
Just food for thought.
Edit: Dumb character limit! -
06-02-2016, 10:55 PMSkinypupy
I enjoy the story but admit that I struggle a bit with it, especially during the small chunks that are doled out with each patch. When they start referencing characters or events that I first saw 3 years and 1,000+ hours ago, I often find myself entirely lost.
Does anyone know if there's a story summary/refresher somewhere that I could take a quick look at to get back up to speed? -
06-02-2016, 11:34 PMohmRICEThe journal in the inn room is a great refresher if you're a quick reader. It should only take an hour or two to read through the entries and they also summarize what happens in the included cutscenes so you don't have to watch them if you don't want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinypupy
-
06-02-2016, 11:43 PMCodingSquirrel
The amount of blatant misrepresentation of people who happen to have a different opinion of what they like in an MMO is both entertaining and quite sad.
And, you do realize this is an MMO right, not a single player game? God forbid some people came for the multiplayer part and don't look forward to hours and hours of single player grind in order to unlock it. You'd think mothers were being insulted with the knee-jerk reactions this thread has provoked. -
06-02-2016, 11:50 PMLaylaTsarraYou can do multiplayer beginning with Satasha Baby at story level 15. You don't need to be in Heavensward to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
-
06-02-2016, 11:51 PMNiciI agree with you to a certain extent, but at the same time quests like these like the what you gave an example of...finding chocobo perfume where it's kinda a silly little chore you have to do...i think it adds a little flavor and humor to the MSQ, some people might find it annoying and just fluff material...but others like myself enjoy the little extra flavor and humor in these silly fetch quests lol, each person is different in what they enjoy or don't enjoy of the MSQ and SSQ (side story quests).Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom
-
06-03-2016, 12:04 AMStarlordThis!Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
Also, what person goes into a FF game not expecting ( for the most part) Story. FF has always been about it's deep ( and rather long) storytelling. If that isn't your thing you really only have 2 options:
1) Skip the dialogue ( if you are enjoy all the other content outside of the story)
2) Game is really not for you and it's best if you found another game that appeals to you or your friends.
Like this person said, there is 3 years worth of story in here... naturally (if you read it) it will take you a decent amount of time... -
06-03-2016, 12:07 AMStormriderNot to single you out. But i have stumbled across the same amount of bots in HW as ARR. They are underground and teleporting it is pure luck to target one. The pure amount of timers keeps some market stability then gated HW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Also them getting through 2.0 storyline is less of an issue for bots then regular players. They don't obey basic game conventions. They simply teleport from npc to npc. They don't need tanks for dungeons either since they can't be hit. I was afk at sylphs when groups of 8 do the story mode it got me curious. So i sat and watched the screen you can see them teleporting and dancing for the sylph. Why would they have to stop specially since the biggest gate was probably nerfed in steps if that was even a real issue to begin with. -
06-03-2016, 12:10 AMohmRICEThe multiplayer aspect isn't locked until you complete the story though. You can actually play along side your friends while going through the story together, you can still chat with other players (though you'll not be able to join in when they start talking about the most recent story addition), and partake in your normal multiplayer activities.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
In fact, you can't progress through the story without playing with other people! There's no soloing Sastasha! -
06-03-2016, 01:14 AMSnugglebuttProve it, if is as many as you claim you should have a screenshot of it. I was more than capable of taking screenshots of underground bots and teleporting bot armies in ARR by waiting by the NPC's they teleport to and away from the NPC's even if they are underground they would still be fighting the monsters which allows you to select the mob and then click on the character name the mob is targeting to highlight the location of the bot. I have not seen a single RMT bot in HW zones to date and there is no evidence of any given by anyone to my knowledge. I would be the first in line to complain to SE if it was the case of HW zones infested with RMT bots like ARR is but I am not because it is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormrider
Your claim is a work of pure fiction from what I have seen, also if you were 'afk' how do you know there was groups of eight at sylphs? Sorry but to me it seems your making up things to try and give your argument fictional weight. Fact is the gating to HW zones via story including all the more difficult level 50 trials and dungeons does keep RMT and their bot armies out of HW zones and there is no evidence shown to claim otherwise. Now it is possible an individual player could use a bot after legitimately working their way through the gating but RMT has not yet been able to do this for their bot armies. Any claim that there is as many bots in HW as in ARR is also a fabricated lie, if it were true there would be vastly more people complaining about bots in HW on here. -
06-03-2016, 02:39 AMStarlordTo be honest, I feel like people should be happy that there is an abundance of content to do... I understand that X person wants to play with x friend... but at the end of the day it's still a game that has content for people to play, and there is a lot of content. People just need to take it slow and enjoy what the game has to offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
If X person skips the main story and all other content. That person will be missing out on 90% of what's there. Feels like a waste.
However, people are feel to think and do however they please ^^. -
06-03-2016, 03:12 AMJermz
This thread took off like crazy! Thanks for the input. I want to make clear that none of my friends are WHINING about the story quests, and the comments about HOPE TO GOD YOU LEAVE, BUCK UP, BLAH BLAH were completely uncalled for. I was merely pointing out a major part of the game that i view as flawed, and is kinda standing in the way of doing things.They enjoy the game, they know what Final Fantasy is, they know what MMOs are and they aren't expecting WOW 2.0, but after 2 months or so of playing, and they don't even have the expansion unlocked, and theres a new patch around the corner for MORE unlocks, its tedious and they feel a little demotivated to do the filler stuff to Heavensward. A buddy of mine really wants to be a Dark Knight, his warrior is almost 53 at this point and he still hasn't unlocked Heavensward, doing story quests diligently. Another friend who is WHM is 56 and still trudging through, they many have unlocked HS at this point. My buddies have been doing dungeons as needed and story quests, i run with them every time I can. I'm stalled at 60 doing story quests still and even I'm kinda tired of it.
Lots of good ideas in here for handling this in the future, hopefully something is done that will appeal to everyone. -
06-03-2016, 03:39 AMCodingSquirrelQuote:
Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra
After I unlock that first dungeon, no matter how much I play it or how far I level I can't do anything but that single dungeon unless I do hours more of the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmRICE
-
06-03-2016, 03:47 AMNiwashiBut would you go to an Archage forum and create threads asking for PvP to be removed? It's fine to play a game where you don't like a core aspect of it but can accept that aspect for the sake of other things that you do like. It's a different thing to say that a core aspect of a game should be removed because you came to the game despite not liking that core aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
This thread (and several others) are saying that a core aspect of FFXIV should be removed from the game because they personally don't like it or some of their friends don't. The fact that access to areas, trials, dungeons, and so on are based on the story of how and why you get there is a core aspect of Final Fantasy. That shouldn't change just because a few players prefer a different style of game. -
06-03-2016, 03:55 AMLexiaHow often do your friends play? 2 months seems like quite a long time. I was talking in one of the ls I am in about maybe leveling up a alt and talk about how long it would take to get through the ARR content and most said if person really hammers though could most likely do in less then a week otherwise take couple weeks to do maybe a month at most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermz
-
06-03-2016, 04:00 AMCodingSquirrelCan we at least debate with some honesty? Instead of misrepresenting other people's opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niwashi
To your point of there being lore reasons as to why you're in such and such a dungeon. There may be a lore reason that the character is there, but that does not necessitate that area being locked down except as a game mechanics choice. If we wanted to bring lore into this then why are you able to go back and replay those zones once you've beaten them. Based on lore, those enemies should be defeated. You can either handwave it or assume the player (not the character) is time traveling. Gaining access to places you shouldn't yet is effectively the same thing, but in the other direction. -
06-03-2016, 04:09 AMLaylaTsarraTam-Tara Deepcroft is Level 16 and unlocked a couple story quests (not hours) after the Satasha. Copperbell Mines is level 17 and is also just a few story quests after Tam-Tara. You should know that so why try and exaggerate in order to try and make a point. You can also play those dungeons to get plenty of experience to unlock the next dungeons series.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
Pot calling the kettle black I would say.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
-
06-03-2016, 04:13 AMohmRICEUnfortunately video games typically require certain requirements to be met before certain content is unlocked. You can't go to the Pokemon League without getting all your badges, kiddo.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
Still have access to the multiplayer content though, just not all of it. ;) -
06-03-2016, 04:17 AMZojhaPrimarily, it's a core aspect of linear single-player games, not just final fantasy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niwashi
-
06-03-2016, 04:30 AMCodingSquirrelCongrats, you've found a specific scenario where unlocking a series of dungeons is only done in a short period of time. Well done. Point still stands.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra
You don't have to beat the elite 4 before you can trade and battle your friends. In an MMO not everyone comes for the story, or is interested in the story first. Some just want to get to the content they want to play with their friends. And just playing low level dungeons over and over isn't going to keep either of them very entertained for long.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmRICE
-
06-03-2016, 04:36 AMNiwashi???Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
"hours more of the story"? It's literally the next quest. Talk to one person to turn in the sastasha quest, then talk to another to start the following quest which gives you Tam-Tara. And once you finish that second dungeon, the very next quest after it gives you Copperbell. Now once you unlock all three of them, if you aren't high enough level to unlock Halatali yet (though you probably are), there are a few quests before you get to the Ifrit trial but even there it wouldn't take hours.
EDIT:
Double checked, and there actually is one quest in between each time. I forgot that asking you to go to the region where the next dungeon is located is implemented as a separate travel quest rather than the first step of the quest that asks you to clear out the enemies in that dungeon. Functionally, it amounts to the same thing, though. -
06-03-2016, 04:39 AMohmRICEYou can't control traded Pokemon over a certain level however unless you have the proper badges, correct? I'll have to go through hours of story to get better native Pokemon and moves unless I want to battle using the same few Pokemon I could only catch in the grass right outside the starting area.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
And I do really have to ask why do none of these people complaining about not being able to play with their friends....ask their friends to run through the story with them? I mean, I've helped my friends through old content in order to get them up to speed and we still had fun playing together even if it wasn't in the newest freshest content.
That's actually explained in the lore too. It's the Echo allowing you to re-experience your "memories" of the dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
-
06-03-2016, 04:47 AMCodingSquirrelThat may be fine for you, but I don't find having a bunch of over leveled friends accompanying me for simple single player fetch quests all that fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmRICE
Why do my memories have different people in it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmRICE
-
06-03-2016, 04:50 AMAmariel34
In vanilla WoW you had to "discover" dungeons either by getting to the entrance or by doing quests to gain entry. The only reason they changed it is cause people were whining about entry into dungeons not being handed to them on a silver plate.
-
06-03-2016, 04:51 AMMilesSaintboroguhThen that's on you. All instanced content are level and/or item level synced anyway. If you don't want your friends helping you because of that reason, then I dunno what else to tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
-
06-03-2016, 05:00 AMohmRICE1.) I don't know what to tell you then. Most people typically enjoy talking to the people they call their friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
ʅฺ(・ω・。)ʃฺ
2.) A lot of stuff has happened to the poor WoL, give them a break if they can't remember if the healer was a Miqo'te WHM or a Roegadyn SCH. -
06-03-2016, 05:18 AMNiwashiNo, the point doesn't still stand because that "specific scenario" is the only scenario in which your point (if it were true) would have been relevant. You claimed that unlocking the first dungeon leaves you with only one dungeon you can run until much later in the story. The truth is that you unlock four dungeons and a trial in very short order and always thereafter have at least that many to choose from. Obviously, the further you go, the more other choices you also have, but you're never stuck at only one or two options.Quote:
Originally Posted by CodingSquirrel
-
06-03-2016, 06:10 AMNiwashiIt's a core aspect of linear games, a category which includes Final Fantasy. (I didn't mean to suggest it was unique to FF.) There are both linear and non-linear single-player games, as well as both linear and non-linear multi-player games (though in the later case, non-linear seems to be more common).Quote:
Originally Posted by Zojha
Some players like non-linear games because those can give them a lot more flexibility in choosing what they want to do. The cost of that flexibility, however, is that such games cannot contain the depth of storytelling that's possible in more linear games. SE is good at incorporating storytelling deeply into their games, and in order to do so they tend to stick with a quite linear organization with just a few offshoots into optional content. That's what fans expect and want from the FF franchise.
A player can like both styles. When I want a more open-ended non-linear game, I might play Elder Scrolls (either Oblivion or Skyrim, I don't have ESO). When I want a more linear story-focused game, I might play Final Fantasy or similar ones.
Each approach has its own advantages. But the advantage of the more linear approach is the power it gives the developer to create a deep storyline. The Elder Scrolls games do have a story, even a fairly good story IMO, but most of the gameplay doesn't really relate to it very closely, which makes the story far weaker than it would be if it were a Final Fantasy game with more linear gameplay.
The importance of the story is a huge deal in the popularity of the whole Final Fantasy franchise. In asking SE to make FFXIV less linear by not gating the content on the story, that's essentially asking them to disassociate the story from the game in a way that would prevent them from telling the sort of stories its fans are here for. A game can't tell as deep and involved of a story if the game isn't tightly linked to that story. A little offshoot story that's demoted to being optional content isn't going to be powerful enough to attract FF fans.