Live Letter XXX Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Felis

I bet it is same model with different glow effect

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I do believe they've stated the new relics will have a different look in one of the live letters.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I bet it is same model with different glow effect.
The step sound like a pure upgrade step, not a "go gather rare mats so Gerold can craft a new weapon from scratch again" step.

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They said the weapon will have a different look.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I bet it is same model with different glow effect.
The step sound like a pure upgrade step, not a "go gather rare mats so Gerold can craft a new weapon from scratch again" step.

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This is the only art I've seen, the newest WHM concept:

http://gamerescape.com/wp-content/up...animastaff.jpg

WOW, that looks amazing. I'm still trying to decide if I want to do my WHM or AST relic. I only need 4 more Shells and already have the made the crafted items and have the Aether oils in my retainer.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Because it's supposed to be a fun thing to do, something that gives a bit more incentive for players to run the dragonskin maps....

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I don't really see how getting unlucky and not getting past the third floor multiple times when there is already only a small chance to get in at all (and that will happen at some point, with how RNG tends to be in this game I can practically guarantee it) is a fun time. Why is applying RNG twice... sorry, 8 times to the event necessary to make the items rare? If it's supposed to be for fun, why not make getting to the last floor more based on skill and then, you know - just make the drops less than guaranteed? What is the point of gathering 3 other people to go in just to have the experience go out with a fart after two floors? Seems like a waste of time / effort to me.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

WOW, that looks amazing. I'm still trying to decide if I want to do my WHM or AST relic. I only need 4 more Shells and already have the made the crafted items and have the Aether oils in my retainer.

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I went with Deneb first (granted after getting Hvergelmir) and am Almost there for Majestas, the former is hyperconductive and I have more than 5 for the latter

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Originally Posted by Malakym

I don't really see how getting unlucky and not getting past the third floor multiple times when there is already only a small chance to get in at all (and that will happen at some point, with how RNG tends to be in this game I can practically guarantee it) is a fun time. Why is applying RNG twice... sorry, 8 times to the event necessary to make the items rare? If it's supposed to be for fun, why not make getting to the last floor more based on skill and then, you know - just make the drops less than guaranteed? What is the point of gathering 3 other people to go in just to have the experience go out with a fart after two floors? Seems like a waste of time / effort to me.

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Because it's not supposed to be a routine thing that you and your group do whenever the portal pops up with every other dragonskin map. It's an extra, fun thing that happens 50% of the time, when finishing a dragonskin map. It's an incentive to run those dragonskin maps again, since they haven't been all that useful recently. (aside from the relic items)

If you want something that's more based on skill to go from floor to floor, go play Palace of the Dead in 3.35.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

Yes please to this. If i have to see another 800 alex runs for any other part of this damn thing, i'm going to flip a table.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

You do realise there was a lot of ways you could get Unidentified objects right? You can buy them with Esos, Poetics, and Allied Seals and get them from doing Beast tribe dailies. Infact I think the only content which didn't at least over some way of contributing towards getting the Unidentified objects was PvP and the Gold Saucer. I have two maxed out Animas and I haven't touched Gordias since prior to the Anima weapon's launch.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

People want things done *now*, and running Gordias was the fastest way to get the items once that was introduced (except when hunts are up, but then you do Gordias between hunts for maximum profit)

That's why people who won't/can't do speed runs are abused; people need things done ASAP and anyone holding them back is nothing but trash to them

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This is there own fault then, it their choice to do the "quickest" way. It like stuffing a spoonful of hot food in their mouth and then complaining that it too hot and burned themselves.

I'm feeling a bit pessimistic about aquapolis now, but still waiting to see how it goes. I was initially quite excited as I regularly duo dragonskin maps with a friend. We'll see how duoable the new dungeon is.. Don't wanna have to deal with regularly finding another person or two and splitting mats with them. People are trouble. :(

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Originally Posted by Malakym

I don't really see how getting unlucky and not getting past the third floor multiple times when there is already only a small chance to get in at all (and that will happen at some point, with how RNG tends to be in this game I can practically guarantee it) is a fun time. Why is applying RNG twice... sorry, 8 times to the event necessary to make the items rare? If it's supposed to be for fun, why not make getting to the last floor more based on skill and then, you know - just make the drops less than guaranteed? What is the point of gathering 3 other people to go in just to have the experience go out with a fart after two floors? Seems like a waste of time / effort to me.

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Dont forget the RNG to actually gather the maps, not to mention the daily limit... for a VERY small "Hope" to open a portal...
You will not open gates for weeks and players just gonna ignore it faster than even diadem got ignored...

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Dont forget the RNG to actually gather the maps, not to mention the daily limit... for a VERY small "Hope" to open a portal...
You will not open gates for weeks and players just gonna ignore it faster than even diadem got ignored...

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yup, again more content with a long cool down and a "chance" to do it. Not a fan of this...this stuff is worse then the fatigue system in 1.0, or the same. Enough with the weekly caps and lock out junk...

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Dont forget the RNG to actually gather the maps, not to mention the daily limit...

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Actually when you are looking for dragonskin maps, if you see a lower one first just don't collect it and just collect other items to make the node reset. The timer doesn't start ticking until you collect a map, just keep going until you see a dragonskin map.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Dont forget the RNG to actually gather the maps, not to mention the daily limit... for a VERY small "Hope" to open a portal...
You will not open gates for weeks and players just gonna ignore it faster than even diadem got ignored...

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If you dislike it so much, feel free to just sell your daily map, since the prices on those will go up a lot.

That way, other players who don't mind spending gil can enjoy the 50% spawn rate on portals (which is by no means a "very small chance"), while you'll get a bunch of gil that you can spend on things that you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell

Actually when you are looking for dragonskin maps, if you see a lower one first just don't collect it and just collect other items to make the node reset. The timer doesn't start ticking until you collect a map, just keep going until you see a dragonskin map.

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rng for the map top on top of rng of what map pop , for more rng 50% ......and once u enter guess what? more RNG!

Rnginception!

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

rng for the map top on top of rng of what map pop , for more rng 50% ......and once u enter guess what? more RNG!

Rnginception!

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Because it's terrible that you have to spend a whole 10 minutes to get the map you want, right?

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Because it's terrible that you have to spend a whole 10 minutes to get the map you want, right?

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where i sign for 10 min? because sometimes i waste like 30 min waiting until dragonskin map pops...

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

where i sign for 10 min? because sometimes i waste like 30 min waiting until dragonskin map pops...

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30 minutes seems exceptionally long.

Unless you're clearing every single node, which is unnecessary if you're just there for a map.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Heh...Tanaka had a lot of amazing ideas in ffxi, (and yes some bad ones too) and Yoshida seems to want to take NOTHING good from that. Such a shame. But you know what's funny...once WoW goes back to hardcore like their new expansion is promising then maybe this game will since you know...massive hard on for that game for some reason and not their own past developers for a successful game.

Again, no one is asking for bad stuff from the past...only good ^^. Oh...and Yoshida afaik didn't even touch XI lol. :(

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But that's the funny Yoshi P is using the dev team that made ff11 to make this game so I don't understand why he doesn't use their ideas.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Dont forget the RNG to actually gather the maps, not to mention the daily limit... for a VERY small "Hope" to open a portal...
You will not open gates for weeks and players just gonna ignore it faster than even diadem got ignored...

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considering you can buy them theres nothing really wrong with the whole map dungeon system at all tbh

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

considering you can buy them theres nothing really wrong with the whole map dungeon system at all tbh

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RIP housing and melding BIS materia melding :P

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

If you dislike it so much, feel free to just sell your daily map, since the prices on those will go up a lot.

That way, other players who don't mind spending gil can enjoy the 50% spawn rate on portals (which is by no means a "very small chance"), while you'll get a bunch of gil that you can spend on things that you enjoy.

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pretty much that xD would they prefer 100% portal spawn rate and then 100% chance of gettin to end of dungeon?? while they are at it they might aswell whinge about every rare drops from dungeon isnt 100% eithier

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

only if it involves someone having to fire a cannon at something.

I pays my sub, I should be allowed to sit ERPing with Nidhogg and still get the clear

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Whilst you use the new in-combat idle camera to make l33t pix. >_>

if the weapons from the Nidhogg doesnt have a sword called Ridill (dual for nin?) and Hrotti for pld ! , balmung for drk im going to be dissapointed :p

(yes i know that this are Fafnir drops...still :3 )

SPIKE FLAIL COMING! (like imdugud in T10)

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

if the weapons from the Nidhogg doesnt have a sword called Ridill (dual for nin?) and Hrotti for pld ! , balmung for drk im going to be dissapointed :p

(yes i know that this are Fafnir drops...still :3 )

SPIKE FLAIL COMING! (like imdugud in T10)

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Balmung is already ingame: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/0fcc4a37e8d/

Though, Ridill/Hrotti are still possible

Here's my attempt at an analytic view of the map dungeons.

What we know about them, from the live letter:
-A portal into the dungeon has a 50% chance of spawning after beating the normal map spawn
-The dungeon contains 7 rooms, each with 2 doors (except for the last room, presumably)
-After clearing a room, you have to choose a door, and choosing the correct one will let you proceed

Now, we can also make an inference based on that information:
-With two doors out of a room, you have a 50% chance of selecting the correct one

This seems obvious, but it could be implemented differently--e.g., rather than one door per room being designated at instance creation time as correct and one as incorrect, "correctness" could just be a dice roll when someone interacts with a door, which would allow manipulation of the probability. That said, doing it that way seems more complex than necessary, so for the purposes of this post, let's assume the straightforward approach.

The implications of the above are, for any given map (assuming your party is capable of clearing each room):
-You have a 50% chance of reaching the first room
-You have a 25% chance of reaching the second room
-You have a 12.5% chance of reaching the third room
-You have a 6.75% chance of reaching the fourth room
-You have a 3.13% chance of reaching the fifth room
-You have a 1.56% chance of reaching the sixth room
-You have a 0.78% chance of reaching the final room

Now, let's put that into more concrete terms. Since the live letter mentioned that it would be best to go with at least a light party for these dungeons, we'll assume that you and three friends run four maps a day (one for each of you), every day for a year; that's 1460 maps in total. Out of those maps:
-You'll get into the dungeon roughly 730 times (twice a day)
-You'll get at least as far as the fifth room roughly 46 times (not quite once a week)
-You'll get to the final room roughly 11-12 times (about once a month)

To be perfectly honest, those numbers don't sound terrible at first glance, especially given the rewards that were mentioned in the live letter. However, it's important to remember the assumption that was made: four maps a day for a year straight. If we change that to be more realistic--say, 16 maps a week (four people meeting up on the weekends to do maps, each with two maps on retainers, one held in inventory, and one used), missing a week here and there--the numbers drop proportionately. A group like this would likely only see the final room 5 or 6 times in a whole year, and a non-negligible number of such groups (about 1 in 300) wouldn't see the final room at all in a year.

Is that reasonable from a rewards standpoint? Maybe, depending on the exact breakdown (keeping in mind that we don't know the drop rate on things like rare minions). Does it seem fun? I personally don't think so, but that is, of course, subjective--and also highly dependent on what the earlier rooms are like. If each room fight is challenging and enjoyable, with decent rewards such that making it into the dungeon at all feels good, even if your group only gets through the first room or two, that would obviously change my opinion to a more positive one.

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Originally Posted by Ariannaid

Here's my attempt at an analytic view of the map dungeons.
*well-done post*

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Thanks for putting things into perspective. If doing even a few rooms winds up worth the effort then hopefully I'm just being overly pessimistic.

IDK 4 players each having a map. Pretty sure there is a small chance that out of 4 maps no portal spawns. But probably is a high chance that even if a portal spawns the doors might not work in your favor.

New content all looks good but I must admit that I'm pretty surprised about the moogle tribe being for crafters only. I didn't actually think we'd get a crafters only beast tribe this xpac, but it will give me a chance to finish getting all my crafters to 60 depending on the difficulty of the dailies.

At times like this i really like to know the numbers of participants from Square Enix!
Lets say Diadem or Frontline as example (or maps)...
I just ask because what you say here is not as my friends experience it, players just SKIP it and ABANDON the whole content!
Be realistic, you WILL not get a portal more often than just once a week if you dont buy all maps from market board...
The Problem AS ALWAYS is that players are FORCED to do one single content EXCLUSIVE 24/7 hrs a day!

Yoshi likes to compare with theme parks: You do not go in a theme park to try one single thing with waiting a day and paying millions of cash - try to explain such a theme park to your children!

From the few who were doing maps for gear (Thavnairian Leather) i know many who have given up on it at all. Most have bought it from market board. When we were trying to "farm" that, it was pure frustration and huge gilsink. Thats a content made solely for bots and if you are not a bot then you may get it within a year (all gear pieces) depending on your luck.

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Originally Posted by Ariannaid

-With two doors out of a room, you have a 50% chance of selecting the correct one

The implications of the above are, for any given map (assuming your party is capable of clearing each room):
-You have a 50% chance of reaching the first room
-You have a 25% chance of reaching the second room
-You have a 12.5% chance of reaching the third room
-You have a 6.75% chance of reaching the fourth room
-You have a 3.13% chance of reaching the fifth room
-You have a 1.56% chance of reaching the sixth room
-You have a 0.78% chance of reaching the final room

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one thing i gotta correct on this is that is not how the 50/50 thing would work. each chance is not directly tied to the other one, so no matter what, you have a 50/50 chance on each door. ff14 %s are kinda silly about not having anything to do with the last roll of something. its the whole reason that we can have a gather fail 3 times in a row when at 95%. each hit is 5% that you will get nothing, just like each door being 50%.

They put Dragonsong finally as final boss music. I hope will be changing fragments like Answers on T13. Each pahse with a different section of the song.

That's what I need, I'm happy. But I wanted a new Warring Triad fight instead of a Extreme version of the final boss. But is ok anyway.

Dragonet minion confirmed made my night when I saw it. I want one. ...Not as much as a Living Liquid one, though.


Overall satisfied with 3.3 prospects.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

They put Dragonsong finally as final boss music.

That's what I need, I'm happy. But I wanted a new Warring Triad fight instead of a Extreme version of the final boss. But is ok anyway.

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I always wanted a dragon trial on the lengths of an extreme fight since Heavensward was released, being a dragon themed expansion and all >_> Look at it in a good way! 3.3 Nidhogg EX, 3.4 The Demon, 3.5 The Goddess, already figured it out ;o
If I'm correct in my thought process then this time around we won't be played around with in the last patch like 2.5 did, no EX trial which was super disappointing imo, its looking good this time around though!

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

one thing i gotta correct on this is that is not how the 50/50 thing would work. each chance is not directly tied to the other one.

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They are. When you did the wrong decision, its over. You don't get the chance to try the other doors.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

They are. When you did the wrong decision, its over. You don't get the chance to try the other doors.

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This is correct.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Lets say Diadem or Frontline as example (or maps)...
I just ask because what you say here is not as my friends experience it, players just SKIP it and ABANDON the whole content!

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Diadem was abandoned by non-gatherers, because it ended up in a lootgrind for BiS i210 gear, something that hasn't been updated, and is thus deemed useless in the way of gearing up. (due to the ease of getting 220/230 gear) It's not entirely abandoned, as some of the Diadem materials are still useful for glamour/spiritbonding (Sky Pirate's gear) or raid food.
Frontline only ever gets abandoned when there's a new PvP mode added (like The Feast causing Seal Rock to have longer queues), but Fields of Glory will probably see to the frontline queue being shorter. Not that the PvP playerbase is all that large, but it's certainly not abandoned.

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Be realistic, you WILL not get a portal more often than just once a week if you dont buy all maps from market board...

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There's a 50% chance for the portal to spawn, a player can get 9 maps a week. Getting just 1 portal a week would be quite unlucky.

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The Problem AS ALWAYS is that players are FORCED to do one single content EXCLUSIVE 24/7 hrs a day!

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Maps really don't take ages to do, and neither will the Aquapolis be something that'll require players to focus on it 24/7.

I also think you're taking the "theme park" description a bit too literally.

New Beast Tribe with Moogles and crafting... welcome to hell!

I think I will sell my dragonskin-maps on patch day : )

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

one thing i gotta correct on this is that is not how the 50/50 thing would work. each chance is not directly tied to the other one, so no matter what, you have a 50/50 chance on each door. ff14 %s are kinda silly about not having anything to do with the last roll of something. its the whole reason that we can have a gather fail 3 times in a row when at 95%. each hit is 5% that you will get nothing, just like each door being 50%.

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Your math is flawed. We have 50% to continue at each gate, but since we got kicked out if we failed, the chance we reach a floor is directly tied to the chance we reach the previous floor. Also, what Arinnaid calculated, is the chance we "can" reach a specific floor, from the beginning in one section. It will only stay 50% chance for every floor if we have 7 doors to choose at beginning and WON'T get kicked if we open the wrong door.

In regards to your gathering example, it is not the same. Think of gathering at 95% but if you failed a hit it close the gathering windows right away, even if you haven't finished all your attempts. That would be the equivalent to this situation.

(Sry, just realized someone posted about this already :D pls move on and ignore me xD )

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

Your math is flawed. We have 50% to continue at each gate, but since we got kicked out if we failed, the chance we reach a floor is directly tied to the chance we reach the previous floor. Also, what Arinnaid calculated, is the chance we "can" reach a specific floor, from the beginning in one section. It will only stay 50% chance for every floor if we have 7 doors to choose at beginning and WON'T get kicked if we open the wrong door.

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There are two different things going on here.

First, the probability of picking the right door on each floor individually, which in the case of two doors will always be 50%. Previous choices have no influence on this. No matter what happened to get you there, each floor will give you a fresh 50/50 chance of picking the right door.

Second, the probability of picking the right door seven times in a row, which is a separate calculation and is indeed much smaller than 50%.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

Second, the probability of picking the right door seven times in a row, which is a separate calculation and is indeed much smaller than 50%.

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The chance of reaching the last room starts with about 1,56%. The rate increases by every new room you sucessfully reach.