Xeno believes paladin should NEVER be main tank

Also, i feel taking note of bloodbath in warriors case is very important, if you throw bloodbath into your deliverance opener that is a huge amount of heals in a short time, while not the best, itll definantly take care of you for a little while, with being healed for around 1.3k life per fell cleave, or around 2k if it crits, on top of the 400 here and 500 there per GCD of your other hits. its an extremely useful cooldown to pop in your berserked state

whilst in the case of the other tanks, cross classing bloodbath is pretty much useless as none of them are able to output the same amount of high damage in such a short time

Can he solo Titan EX after the Tank blanket nerf though? Wasn't his Solo vid before the nerf?

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

i would just like to say, that while xeno obviously didnt just faceplant his keyboard to solo that titan ex, the only reason he won was because of pure luck, there were MANY times where if his heals hadnt crit, he would have been dead.no doubt he practiced and tryed that over and over to get the clear he did get, but it wasnt from pure skill

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Most of the times where he did rely on luck were because that's how the encounter is - you can't reasonably account for everything with WAR's limited healing compared to an actual healer. During the adds he could've taken better advantage of Bloodbath, but he only realized that later in the encounter when it saved him. His Titan EX video is impressive because it's the definition of how a good WAR works, you map out all your GCDs for an encounter and execute. T13 7man is a better example since it's not a solo thing, but I don't think Titan EX should be ignored.

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Can he solo Titan EX after the Tank blanket nerf though? Wasn't his Solo vid before the nerf?

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The gear has already outweighed the damage difference, and he'd have significantly more cushion health to work with (especially with echo). It was from before the nerf, but that doesn't really mean anything.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

The gear has already outweighed the damage difference, and he'd have significantly more cushion health to work with (especially with echo). It was from before the nerf, but that doesn't really mean anything.

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Was just wondering. Regardless it's still an impressive feat for an Extreme fight.

I like how Xeno has cleared A8S and yet he's still a "below average" tank.

Because below average tanks clear content that 99% of this game's population will never even see, lol.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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Yes of course both tanks have to deal with mechanics and each job is better suited to different ones, but generally DRK MT and WAR OT is the most efficient balance of DPS and mitigation.
I've watched him stream, he does lots of dumb things to maximise his own dps at the expense of his group. I don't care about his meme clears of irrelevant content, I'm talking about progression.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

I like how Xeno has cleared A8S and yet he's still a "below average" tank.

Because below average tanks clear content that 99% of this game's population will never even see, lol.

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I'm not talking about general population of course, I'm talking about progression raiders.

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Originally Posted by HatsoonMike

I've watched him stream, he does lots of dumb things to maximise his own dps at the expense of his group.

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Can agree w/ this, so I guess fair enough.

Again, the issue is not about what Xeno thinks of tanks. It's about a balance problem between them. Of course, it's not as important as it was before 3.2 but it's still there.
It's easy to say what WAR or DRK offers upon PLD, the opposite is not that clear...or that meaningful.

Additionnal mitigation as MT is worthless since any tank has enough mitigation. So, increasing mitigation capabilities as OT could be an interesting way.

Even stacked up against other raiders "below average"? I'm not seeing it fam

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Originally Posted by Ragnorak

Even stacked up against other raiders "below average"? I'm not seeing it fam

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I don't really understand this sentence fully..fam? But um, I don't know about below average but I play with people who tank better then him..way better. Doesn't mean he is awful but people must admit there is always someone else better out there. Not everyone films every thing they do in a game..I think I said this in this thread before lol.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

I don't really understand this sentence fully..fam? But um, I don't know about below average but I play with people who tank better then him..way better. Doesn't mean he is awful but people must admit there is always someone else better out there. Not everyone films every thing they do in a game..I think I said this in this thread before lol.

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Well of course I'm just calling into question the "below average" comment cuz I just don't see it to call the man below average. I don't even think he claims to be the best tank. He used to state that in his videos not sure if he still does its been a while since I watched a video of his but yeah. That's my only issue with what's been said

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Originally Posted by HatsoonMike

DRK MT WAR OT is the best combination in any situation, why is this even a topic?
Also, I don't understand why so many people listen to Xeno and follow his words as gospel. He's decent at the game but not very smart, and a below average tank.

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did you even read the topic? cmon guys.

Well, Xeno up and said it and now I hope it reaches the development teams ears for the next expansion.

The job can tank well enough but its weak and feels weak.

I truly hope something is done to make it a more powerful and organized job by the next expansion.

Haha I agree paladin is the best main tank

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Originally Posted by Nolr

Haha I agree paladin is the best main tank

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They aren't though. Just by the #s they aren't. It's not a matter of opinion. You wanna say they're the easiest tank sure but they mitigate less, damage less, and have less utility than WAR. What else is there other than not having 2x WAR due to limit break slowdown?

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

they mitigate less

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They don't mitigate less.
But what they mitigate over WAR or DRK is either unreliable or meaningless since DRK and WAR mitigates enough.

Saddly, this is not a problem of PLD but a problem on how boss fights are designed.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Sadly, this is not a problem of PLD but a problem on how boss fights are designed.

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True, but it is also a Pld problem. Quite frankly, they were designed poorly. They excel at passive mitigation only, but that mitigation is RNG based. They deal pitiful damage. Their stances offer nothing unique in gameplay and have the greatest discrepancy in cost vs reward out of the three tanks, and they are the only tank that has several defensive GCD's that have, at best, niche uses and, at worst, no use at all. Even just looking at defense, comparing that to War or Drk shows a clear difference, because both of those jobs have a full kit of moves that can be used at any time and still offer at least some benefit.

It's true that there are some fights in the game which put Pld's at a disadvantage, just like it's true that there are some fights in which Pld really shines, but there's no denying that the majority of the pitfalls faced by Pld's are caused by the job's terrible design and SE's utter and absolute refusal to do anything to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Februs

They excel at passive mitigation only, but that mitigation is RNG based.

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If damage was less predictable, then a RNG mitigation would still have a noticeable effect over the course of a whole fight. The issue with Block and Parry is that healers are supposed to precast a powerful healing spell for each tankbuster. They're not precasting for auto-attacks, so they'd ajust their Healing output according to the rate of which you block.

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Originally Posted by Februs

They deal pitiful damage. Their stances offer nothing unique in gameplay and have the greatest discrepancy in cost vs reward out of the three tanks

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Actually, PLD is a bit weird here. Yes, Shield Oath is the least powerful of the three tank stances, when you consider what the two other offers on top of thei mitigation. On the other end, Shield Oath is a huge (And I mean HUGE) damage boost over Deliverance, and (with the average mitigation of Flight Or Fight) trumps even Darkside. It's what causes Xeno to think that PLD should not be MT.

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Originally Posted by Februs

they are the only tank that has several defensive GCD's that have, at best, niche uses and, at worst, no use at all.

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But, even with those Defensive CD, they're totally on par with the two other tanks. Those CD also allows PLD to completely bypass some mechanic, like when you Covered for Earthshaker or prevent knockback which would cause the boss to move and might make other jobs loses some damage when moving.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Even just looking at defense, comparing that to War or Drk shows a clear difference, because both of those jobs have a full kit of moves that can be used at any time and still offer at least some benefit.

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I'd say DRK has a bigger issue than PLD when it comes to design. Dark Passenger gains a Blind effect with Dark Arts, Dark Dance gains an Evasion boost from Dark Arts...but you'd either want to be hit to proc Blood Price or want to parry to proc Reprisal.

Well as far as the Dodge Tank combo goes for DRK it's just incentive to drop Grit after blowing that 4.4k MP for your Evasion buffs. And then you use Blood Weapon to regen your MP. Only really viable if you have full MP at the moment.

Could probably DA+DD for a single enemy and just have a Summoner or Scholar toss a Ruin 2 at them to save you the 2.5k MP and still get the big Evasion boost.

I mean if the enemy can't hit you there isn't any point in reprisal at that point.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I mean if the enemy can't hit you there isn't any point in reprisal at that point.

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The evasion boost does not prevent the boss from hitting everyone else with unavoidable AoE.

Since people consider that Blocking is crap because it's unreliable, dropping Grit to rely solely on the Parry and Evasion Boost is pretty risky in any content where you think you'll need the Evasion and Parry boost.

Summary: "Make PLD and DRK overpowered killing machines that cannot be killed in raids so I can be like some nobody on Twitch who obviously doesn't care about the fundamentals of tanking."

Perhaps SE should start adjusting every enemy to make these wannabe DPS think about defense a lot more than they do now.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Summary: "Make PLD and DRK overpowered killing machines that cannot be killed in raids so I can be like some nobody on Twitch who obviously doesn't care about the fundamentals of tanking."

Perhaps SE should start adjusting every enemy to make these wannabe DPS think about defense a lot more than they do now.

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Tanks are already rotating their defense cooldowns though. It ain't like they can get more defensive unless you mean having more incentive to stay in their tanking stance?

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Originally Posted by Ragology

It ain't like they can get more defensive unless you mean having more incentive to stay in their tanking stance?

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For that, you don't need to change anything about defense.
You could simply reduce the enmity on their single target weapon skills...which would actually be nice for all those PLD OT in lvl50 content.

I agree that the reliance on parry to proc reprisal is unfortunate. That said if a boss is immune to blind then DADD is not worth the MP drain IMO.

I must thank the topic though. Looked at Xeno's vids with one of them showing Bahamut Prime which showcases necessity for the HG's and LD with the Deathflare spam. Not enough of that I would say.