I'll be the bad person and say it: They're actually quite right, and even explain why, where several times you took the "I can't be bothered to again explain why you're wrong" stance, though you never quite did to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood-Aki
Sorry man. You got shut down pretty hard.
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12-21-2015, 04:37 AMThirdChild_ZKI
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12-21-2015, 04:43 AMThirdChild_ZKIWhy does challenge necessarily have to be the exclusive playground of the "elite" so to speak? I'll admit, I barely knew how to play the game way back when, and still very much enjoyed the original relic quest BECAUSE it was a challenge. And I sure as hell didn't complete it in a day. I consider myself a skilled player and it's a matter of pride to push myself to know/execute content very well, but that is not something unique to me. I've always said I haven't done anything in this game anyone else isn't capable of.Quote:
Originally Posted by SchalaZeal
Furthermore, you would essentially still try to create a grind where it need not be, if only to satisfy some sense of evening things out? Please consider this: If content is challenging - like THAT challenging - then learning it, practicing it, wiping and wiping and wiping several times until you finally can pull it off IS the grind. It's simply different than one of a lesser proportion that simply takes time no matter what. Some people would indeed blaze through it, and others would take their time (not always due to lack of ability; real life circumstance does apply here). My static just finally downed A2S, and barely at that. Still working on Thordan, again not due to lack of ability, but purely because of schedules. Slapping a "clear X content Yx times" would only further drive people away from the challenge and compound the problem we currently have.
Let's please put to rest the idea that challenge is only for the elite or what have you. No, not everyone plays the game to be challenged, but at what point are we going to toughen up a little? I'm not out to defend SE (especially with recent additions), but it seems they've been just rolling over for players for a long time now, out of concern that things will be too hard (and the opposite is true too, when they set out to make something hard, they overdo it). Popular examples would be the original Pharos Sirius, the Crystal Tower as a Coil primer that we never got to see, Steps of Faith at launch. I won't speak for others, but being led over to the bunny slopes all the time whether I'm capable of black diamond slopes or not feels patronizing and a little insulting.
As a personal note, I've got high hopes for this Beginner's Palace they're adding, supposedly with 3.2. If it truly will help players get better at the game, then there ought to be little excuse to hold back or intentionally down-tune content to the lowest denominator. I'm not so calloused as to say people need to "git gud", but as long as players shy away from being challenged or refuse to be, they'll never "git gud". And lengthy, bunny slope grinds will be the future of endgame content. Do we really want that? -
12-21-2015, 04:48 AMSchalaZealIt was HM stuff, and it was only hard because of huge latency positioning server issues basically letting people stay in aoe (including Landslide) even if they move out of it, because server didn't check often enough.Quote:
I'll admit, I barely knew how to play the game way back when, and still very much enjoyed the original relic quest BECAUSE it was a challenge.
People aren't asking for HM this time around, they're asking for EX or Coil or Savage. WAY WAY harder than Titan HM would be even with i55 avg. Of course, if they want a challenge, they won't ask for only undersized ones. What's the % of people who cleared Ravana EX? -
12-21-2015, 04:53 AMAshelia_FerronThis Scholar from Gilgamesh did itQuote:
Originally Posted by ohmRICE
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/3691993/ -
12-21-2015, 04:56 AMReinhaThe first thing that popped in my head...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron
Winner winner chicken dinner! :D -
12-21-2015, 05:16 AMBlood-AkiIncorrect, But nice try. actually paying attention to the numerous topics on the exact same thing also speaks for a it self, There is no need to explain something that was already present in thesame subject topics on the same thing., Sorry man, No brownie points for this one, I know you wanted his approval badly but it didn't work out. Let it go.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
a simple search of reddit will show them, They even included pictures of them holding it.Quote:
Maybe instead of debating whether or not people have them, lets instead post links to their character page, so we can see it on their armory.
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12-21-2015, 05:25 AMThirdChild_ZKII get what you're saying here. But let's look at a few important facts: 2.0 Ex primals and Coil are old content. Able to undersize, WITH Echo. The only difficulty there would simply be due to lack of knowledge of the content, and frankly, there's been plenty of time to learn, and more importantly TRY it. Even Ravana Ex is Echo-old now. Maybe there are some who haven't cleared it yet, to which I ask, what HAVE they been doing all this time? I don't want to start a "not everyone plays the same way" debate, just to be fair. But there's a difference between "I'm having a hard time clearing this for X reason" and "I haven't cleared X content because I've never tried/don't care to try." Sure, if you don't want to try, that's fine. Outside of prerequisites for things, you don't have to do anything. But I can't abide anyone who would shy away from the challenge and/or not even try, then complain that it's "just something for the elites". (That's not a shot at you personally; I've heard echoes of that in my own FC and it's infuriating.)Quote:
Originally Posted by SchalaZeal
All in all, challenging content is a grind of a different nature. There'd be no need to implement a time/quantity grind on top of that anyways, especially not to try and keep things proportionate. Like I always say, it's climbing the mountain vs. walking the trail. Most will walk the trail. Don't make it needlessly tougher for people who might simply prefer mountain climbing. And definitely don't make walking the trail more rewarding. That is all kinds of backward, especially for vertical progression. -
12-21-2015, 05:43 AMThirdChild_ZKIOh, you're that person who refuses to be wrong, and has to maintain that air of infallible dignity no matter what. Gotcha. Well, I see one cannot even touch your divine (lack of) reasoning, so I'll do the smart thing and save MY time here. I got a relic to maybe grind, and better ways to "seek approval" from people I don't even know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood-Aki
But seriously though, you were wrong and you did get shut down. It's ok. -
12-21-2015, 05:44 AMGranyalaI've seen a TON of this kind of discussions over at WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
The simple fact of the matter is that when people are asked to step up their game and get better in order to beat content, most simply quit instead of accepting the challenge. (this is a free quote from a WoW dev, they have statistics, I don't think the man would make such a statement w/o having internal data to back it up)
Imho we need both sorts of content in order to please multiple target groups.
We have the challenging stuff in Alex Savage (granted A3/4 might be a bit on the stiff side) and now we have an alternate gearing path whose "challenge" is merely an act of patience/endurance (again, maybe a little overcooked).
What I really want to see in further relic steps is not "ermagawd challenge"... it is NEW and UNIQUE content instead of using it to repopulate abandoned parts of the game. Because right now that is seriously lacking.
I agree with one thing though: We need more challenge in between [A3S/Extreme raiding Brickwall] and [complete braindead grind monotony] -
12-21-2015, 05:50 AMBlood-AkiOk, it's pretty clear this is the same person, or at the very least closely related to them, This seems to egotistical to be a coencidence, So i won't press this any further. There was nothing to be wrong about, he (possibly you) simply did not like being shut down, and tried to "come back" but failed, This obvious blind defense is showing me that it may be you. SO i assume i know what happend to you. Get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
You also use phrases and words you don't understand the meaning to further solidiying you being supicious" In this case i won't keep repeating my self.a bully cannot shut down his victim who already defeated him. Not entertaining this anymore, No matter which one you're on. -
12-21-2015, 05:52 AMThirdChild_ZKINow THAT I can fully agree with. My biggest disappointment, more than the grind, was how uninspired it all was. SE had an opportunity to shine and impress, even make use of other new things that were underwhelming (Diadem), and they just didn't bother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granyala
We could've had steak, but instead we got corned beef (re)hash.
(Disclaimer: I like corned beef hash. If you do too, that was not a statement against it. It's awesome. I'm hungry now.) -
12-21-2015, 06:00 AMGranyalaYeah it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that asking your games community to farm the content they already farmed for 6 months for 2-3 more months instead of providing new and fresh things to play won't go over well. ESP not in a game people shell out a monthly fee for...Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
Sometimes I truly wonder whether game DEVs lack common sense. -
12-21-2015, 06:02 AMThirdChild_ZKI
*sigh* Blood-Aki. . .
No, this isn't the same person, and I really don't know them. Unless I go back a few pages, I can't even remember their name. Ease up on the tinfoil hats there.
And let's PLEASE not try to play the grammar game (for clarification sake, this refers to your "words and phrases you don't understand" bit.) I've played that game before too, it's usually a very petty tactic. Not that one so dignified as yourself would care, I've got quite the way with words, thanks to practically eating a dictionary once (<--- This is a metaphor. I did not literally attempt to ingest a dictionary.) No need to repeat yourself as I'm not interested, and you've several times declared you were done with this. Plus the damage has already well been done. Any further retorts on your part only serve to take away from your arguments and, well, make you look bad if not worse.
That said, run along now. Grown people are talking. -
12-21-2015, 06:04 AMBlood-AkiSo you really don't have any clue of what you're talking about and just looking for attention, Gotcha, Moving on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
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12-21-2015, 06:08 AMTwilite
~_~ honestly, who gives a damn. Oh wait.
I guess only I don't. -
12-21-2015, 06:12 AMThirdChild_ZKISeriously, didn't you move on like, several pages ago? Who's really the one without a clue here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood-Aki
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12-21-2015, 06:19 AMGranyalaYou two should get a room. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Blood-Aki
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12-21-2015, 06:35 AMThirdChild_ZKI
I would, but I'm a selfish lover and he's the type that always has to be right. We wouldn't last the honeymoon, lol.
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12-21-2015, 08:27 AMSchalaZealThose who can do the raid can do it. Nothing stopping them. Relic won't be at the same level as the raid weapon until it's been done to death.Quote:
Like I always say, it's climbing the mountain vs. walking the trail. Most will walk the trail. Don't make it needlessly tougher for people who might simply prefer mountain climbing. And definitely don't make walking the trail more rewarding. That is all kinds of backward, especially for vertical progression.
The entry barrier for me doing raiding is finding a static. I don't really have an interest in running with whoever's gonna run it, look for learning parties, or farming parties in PF and just cross my fingers. It's ideally the same group for months, or it would have to be because that group disbanded. I didn't do Thordan EX because I only went once. I didn't do Ravana EX cause I never went. I did Bismarck EX a bit before 3.1. DF sucks, PF is impersonal, and I'm not really a social person. Static would have to fall in my lap. -
12-21-2015, 09:29 AMThunda_Cat_SMASH
My only issue with people that say that 2.0's relic quest was challenging... It really wasn't. Even back before 2.1 it was a mechanically simplistic fight, without too much of an actual skill check. I have other problems, such as the excessive ease of acquisition and how annoying (not difficult) certain fights were, but more than anything, it was not challenging at all. Speaking for myself at least, I never got q sense of accomplishment from getting my relic, unless you include, "Finally! People stopped standing in stupid!"
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12-21-2015, 09:45 AMScarletDawnTitan HM was hard back when the max Illvl was like 70 with philo gear, now that was fun...thing um myth gear had only just come out shortly after.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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12-21-2015, 09:52 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHIf you say so. All I'm saying is that way back when, I nearly fell asleep doing it. It was, imo, the absolute worst questline they'd ever done.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletDawn
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12-21-2015, 10:04 AMUBERHAXED??? We had myth and philo at launch. Max ilvl was 90 when Titan HM came out (launch). We also had crafted 70 gear. Where are you pulling this false information from?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletDawn
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12-21-2015, 10:16 AMOMGAFLYINGPENGUINWhy are you in like EVERY relic thread being so tactless about people with opposite opinions about this. And like I've said before some people aren't unhappy with the grind its the reused content, people question why wasn't it release earlier when they're doing content they've been doing for a year and for 6months of HW.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123
HQ items that are behind specialist quest, balmung & tonberry cost of all 16 HQ item is 1.5-2m, in low populated server its a whooping 24m. So your ability to make the relic is based on the economy too. I'm grinding for my last step of my relic on my own pace, because I've grinded before like that in other games and I'm got burnt out, even had to cut off from basketball and took weeks to condition myself again.
I'm not going to grind my christmas or new year away unlike last time because I have more important things now. Your perspective is that everyone whining should be belittled, whereas many have given constructive feedback not just on relic but the current state of the game. Don't be illiterate or do selective reading, some are good suggestions/constant problems. Christ sake, 4 more days on Christmas 10 more to 2016, stop criticizing others go do something more productive. -
12-21-2015, 10:48 AMEulHe love seeing sweaty people.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN
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12-21-2015, 11:09 AMKotemonSounds like he must have been one of the folks spending 18+ hours on that one boss in XI a couple years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derio
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12-21-2015, 11:32 AMMilesSaintboroguhOh you just had to remind me of that thread! XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Eul
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12-21-2015, 11:42 AMNicoboBut at that moment Myth had 300 weekly cap. I recall almost everyone was wearing Dark Light set (i70) when doing Titan for first relic, and the rest were wearing GC/WP gears but not Myth!Quote:
Originally Posted by UBERHAXED
With that said at 2.0 if someone had AF2 (i90) when doing Titan for first relic, he was probably stuck there for weeks...^^; -
12-21-2015, 12:08 PMEulI just translate the post and I lol'ed so hard that so much people baited because of same icon with anima items.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmRICE