Block first timers from Party Finder!

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

That's my entire point, thank you. Some people don't seem to understand that they're the rude ones by joining the farm party. Apparently I'm the bad one for not accepting the new players.

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Didn't you know...

If you want to farm or do anything that doesn't involve mindlessly and skillessly farming tomes...or worse yet, tackle content that is difficult, time consuming and something you actually have to put time and skill into, that you are an elitest.

I mean you NEED to carry people and you cannot do anything if you are not willing to help someone learn something, cause if you don't you are an elistest jerk. Just like that fancy gear that you worked for, or that mount that you got that I don't have because I haven't done the necessary content to get it, that makes you an elistest jerk too.

I mean why are all these people doing things and getting things that I cant get because I don't want to put the time into it. It should be something I can on my schedule. SE has no business creating content that I cannot complete because I work 50 hrs a week. I mean who do they think they are. They must be elitests too. Hmph

All you people make me so mad. I don't want to put the work in, and I don't have time to either. But that doesn't mean that I don't deserve that mount, or that weapon or that gear. I am a paying customer and I want that now!

http://i.imgur.com/mQhmypn.jpg

That's how you do sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Just think, lets say it catches on and the setting gets added to duty finder lets say it does,

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Maybe its you all that don't know what you want, cause you are basically asking for the death of duty finder with a setting like that.

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How many times do people have to clarify before they're actually listened to? Sometimes it almost feels like people that make statements like this are being deliberately obtuse because they have absolutely nothing to do with what the OP was talking about. Give us a little credit here - nobody was talking about excluding people from Duty Finder parties. That would be utterly ridiculous because DF is a random mishmash of whatever RNGesus gifts you with and we get that. The OP was asking for a Party Finder setting. You know, the thing where you're able to post your own party with your own parameters?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Ok then explain this.

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I'm simply asking for a setting on the party finder to allow players who have completed the fight only.

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Tell me what it means when she said "Allow only players who completed the fight"

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I bolded the important part for you. You understand that Party Finder is separate from Duty Finder, right?

It means that we want to be able to put up a farm in PF without people trying to ninja in for a clear.

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You are saying I am not answering what OP said but I clearly am and you aren't, you are trying to say the total different thing.

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You're blatantly ignoring the very first line of the original post:

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

This thread is about PARTY FINDER, NOT Duty Finder.

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So block the players from entering same dungeon as you because you won a fight, like I said then that means it forces all the players who haven't done it into a duty finder dungeon.

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No, it simply blocks people that don't already have a clear from joining that particular party in Party Finder. It could be another checkbox option for people wanting to put together a Party Finder with a specific type of people. Queueing for a fight in Duty Finder is completely different than putting together a Party Finder party specifically to farm that same fight.

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Why don't you stop dodging that paragraph and tell me what would a setting like that do for the game?

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I'm not dodging anything. You're the one that's either not reading the original post, or not understanding that Party Finder and Duty Finder are completely separate things. As to what it would do, it would let people that already know content put up a party in order to farm without worrying about people with no clue about the fight trying to sneak in and get themselves a free clear.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I am also speaking for Party finder just so you know you just cant cut out people from the game even if they haven't done it. this goes for anything duty related. sorry to burst bubble also that post was edited also so yeah.

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That's just it though, those people are already excluded from farms simply by virtue of not knowing the content. This would just make it less grief all around. There's plenty of "bonus and disband" "bonus and kick" parties. Farm parties aren't the place to learn. If you want to learn, you make a learning or clear party. Plenty of veterans are willing to join those and teach, but why do we have to allow our farming runs to potentially be sabotaged by people that are just fishing for a free clear?

What stops you from stating its a farm run and are not welcoming fresh people?

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

What stops you from stating its a farm run and are not welcoming fresh people?

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What stops the fresh people from joining and keeping quiet until the "First timer bonus" message appears and the party has to disband just because 1 person lied and won't admit they lied?

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

What stops you from stating its a farm run and are not welcoming fresh people?

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The fact that many of those people either don't read the comments or simply don't give a crap and join anyway hoping for a carry. It's unfortunate, but saying you aren't welcoming fresh people doesn't always work to keep them away. I even take people that say they've been to 5% or what have you with a grain of salt because more often than not, "I've seen enrage" actually means "I got past phase 1 once but I was on the floor." People are willing to lie and utterly disregard 7 other people's time just to get a clear.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

What stops the fresh people from joining and keeping quiet until the "First timer bonus" message appears and the party has to disband just because 1 person lied and won't admit they lied?

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Nothing really. It's the way PF is designed. In PF I understand some people are not welcoming some people but on DF I get so pissed when tank+healer always leave a trial if someone is new. Yes Im looking at your Holy Stairs (dont recall full name, the trial in the end of 2.55), Rav/Bis HM, list goes on

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

Nothing really. It's the way PF is designed. In PF I understand some people are not welcoming some people but on DF I get so pissed when tank+healer always leave a trial if someone is new. Yes Im looking at your Holy Stairs (dont recall full name, the trial in the end of 2.55), Rav/Bis HM, list goes on

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Steps of Faith :p

But that really depends on their experiences with trials in DF tbh, i don't bother with trial roulette because i ALWAYS get abysmal groups when its either Titan, Steps, RAV/BIS and even levi... after awhile you stop caring and either stop doing it like me, or queue hoping for an even easier trial people can't really mess up on and leaving when its not rather than waste time wiping over and over, and just go fate or gather or whatever...

Honestly i find the average skill level of the player base so pathetically low it's like they expect us to carry them through the entire game :L i know it sounds harsh and selfish, but i value my time over randoms, the crappy reward for Trial Roulette doesnt help either. Really i don't mean to sound like an elitist but people really need to "git gud"

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Anyways seems I wasted my time posting cause idk what you are all reading seems like you read right over that sentence that I am talking about. duty finder and Party finder it makes no difference a setting like that is out of the question bad.

peace.

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Zeonx, I can't help but wonder if you are the kind of player that joins farm parties to get your first clear since you are so opposed to this. Do you truly prefer the current system where you spend an hour putting together a team, go into the duty, and then the group leader starts yelling and screaming because the bonus is active for having a new player in the group?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Anyways seems I wasted my time posting cause idk what you are all reading seems like you read right over that sentence that I am talking about. duty finder and Party finder it makes no difference a setting like that is out of the question bad.

peace.

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You do realise the option is already there? There's a setting for 'newcomers welcome' and 'serious play with high level gear.' It's just impossible to enforce because people lie and like their carries and there's no way of telling which person is new or filtering them. Your logic makes no sense whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

What stops you from stating its a farm run and are not welcoming fresh people?

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Have you not read the post? Do you think people care if I state it's a farm run? They join regardless. You can write as many rules as you want in the comments box but it doesn't mean you can do anything about it if someone new joins, and before you tell me to kick them, a lot of the time multiple new people join and don't say a word. There's no way to tell who's new until you've wasted your time running the duty and found out who's messing up. It's stupid.

Bump! /10 char :)

The objections to this simple idea are off the wall funny. It would be a great QoL improvement to the PF system. Probably one of the best changes you could make.

I only read to WinterLuna's starting post and only going to be talking about said post.

First off the thread title is misleading, and starts the thread on a hostile note. A better thread title should have been "Party Finder Filter Option- Experienced Only"

Sorry to nit pick, just i groaned a bit at the thread title.

Anyway, on your suggestion to add an option for experienced players only, I agree. To further that idea i think SE should re-vamp the party finder system and add more options, as well as smarter filter systems.
Such as sorting by each tag you can set.

Like filter parties with "newcomers welcome", or filter parties with "experienced" only.



maybe have first time players only able to join "newcomers welcome" parties till they cleared that content.

As for people joining parties, it as simple as not everyone wants to form parties. They don't want to form a party and having the responsibility of being the leader, much like why people prefer playing dps over healer/tank.

What you can do in future Winterluna, is when you form a party communicate with the members who join, ask if they cleared the content then ask them questions on their experirence if they give out short generic reply you are free to kick them.


Also understand it may not always be the newcomer who messes up a run, but could be a person who does have experience, but is having a bad day.

I'm all for options to improve theParty finder system as I would prefer to use that then Duty finder for content.


Daily limit edit

To Winterluna:

Oh trust me I know, it's been like that since mmo strarted. I recall days in ff11 when ppl groaned about waiting for an invite simply because they just didn't want to run the party (back then being a leader meant something). Some more tips, if people don't want to communicate you can kick them as running the group, it's your call if they can join or not. Being picky might make forming a party longer but it may be worth it, and you may make some friends.

Being on console is THE WORST EXCUSE EVER, for not communicating. I've been playing mmo on console since 2004 with the delayed may release of ff11 on ps2, (delayed on east coast because that year had nasty hurricans) And i bought the $100 with the ps2 adptor and a keyboard as communication and chatting are a big part of playing an mmo( i also watch .hack so i had a basic idea of mmo and got prepared). Playing on a console just require a usb keyboard, they go for 5-10 cheapest to 15-30 for a more decent one. I reccomend the logitech K120 these things can take a beating (i droped it or it slide off my bed 100 times and still works)


MMO are best play when you communicate, such as how to do a dungeon (as in speed run or not), or if players have experiemce in content or not and what the stratagy they are used to.

To everyone else

Party finder is not meant to give content hand outs, it's to form groups of like minded players to do content and have fun. It's not for random people to join silently hoping to get something done, communication is a big part of running or being in the party, in my opinion the best players communicate their intent, so things can go smoothly. If you are not willing to do that, then your just as much at fault for the content run going south as the supposed person/people who made mistakes and caused wipes.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

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Firstly, I apologised and apologise again for the title. I was in a rush and am using my smart phone, if I could change it I would. Edit: found out how to edit, done!

Second, that's just pure laziness. By joining someone's farm party and not knowing what to do they are being incredibly selfish just because they 'dont want the responsibility.' That's not an acceptable excuse.

Again, I have said many times that players join and don't say a word. It's easy to try and communicate with them but harder to get information from 7 other members.

However thank you for your support on the subject, it's appreciated!

I "reported" this thread to ask that the title be renamed for ya. Here's hoping they will. ^-^v

I like this idea, as it doesn't bar someone who may have been making it to 5-10% continuously just to see people panic and wipe. I personally have always messaged the leader when it's a fight like this for me, asking if they mind me joining and promising I'd leave if I'm the only one to make a mistake causing a wipe. But I like to be upfront with people with the mindset that while I may not have a kill, it does not mean I don't know what I'm doing. :D

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Originally Posted by Kalsam

I "reported" this thread to ask that the title be renamed for ya. Here's hoping they will. ^-^v

I like this idea, as it doesn't bar someone who may have been making it to 5-10% continuously just to see people panic and wipe. I personally have always messaged the leader when it's a fight like this for me, asking if they mind me joining and promising I'd leave if I'm the only one to make a mistake causing a wipe. But I like to be upfront with people with the mindset that while I may not have a kill, it does not mean I don't know what I'm doing. :D

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Thanks very much, I managed to find a 'full site' option on my phone and managed to change it though :)

And thanks for being one of those people. If that's the case I honestly wouldn't mind and would gladly bring people along, but in my experience most lie and try and sneak through. It gets infuriating.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Thanks very much, I managed to find a 'full site' option on my phone and managed to change it though :)
And thanks for being one of those people. If that's the case I honestly wouldn't mind and would gladly bring people along, but in my experience most lie and try and sneak through. It gets infuriating.

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Ah, that's good :D Though, it's currently still showing the old title for me. >.>
I wish more would do that too. Being upfront. I noticed a lot of people do it in WoW, which is probably where I first picked up the habit. That or Everquest. *shrugs* lol

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Originally Posted by Kalsam

Ah, that's good :D Though, it's currently still showing the old title for me. >.>
I wish more would do that too. Being upfront. I noticed a lot of people do it in WoW, which is probably where I first picked up the habit. That or Everquest. *shrugs* lol

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It is for me too but either way, hopefully it can be changed for me (thanks again) :P

But yeah, I really do respect those who /tell instead of just joining. Even if someone joined and explained they got to ___% and asked if it would be cool I'd 99% of the time say yes. It's just getting to the point where I queue and just know the bonus message is going to pop and of course it does.

Bump 10 char.

I tend to add people which wasting my time into blacklist, so if i am doing farm only no bonus and somebody joins, then we enter and there is bonus, we find the dude easily. Then I leave and put him into blacklist. Many players do same way. And its working, also rumours spread, so bad players will not join your party when they saw your name plus if your farm party is good your name will became rocognized by farmers/same minded people. I farmed all gear from BCOB,SCOB,FCOB after lock eased and before echo, after a while in farming business I was able to recognize good and bad players only by name :D.

This is too discriminatory, especially the part about blacklisting people who make mistakes. People need to learn the fight somehow, and they aren't often run in DF or PF. Add an option that allows people who know the fight to completely avoid ever playing with new players and that's how it will end up being used. That's not that good for the game at all.

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Originally Posted by AeraLure

This is too discriminatory, especially the part about blacklisting people who make mistakes. People need to learn the fight somehow, and they aren't often run in DF or PF. Add an option that allows people who know the fight to completely avoid ever playing with new players and that's how it will end up being used. That's not that good for the game at all.

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There is no place for mistakes in my farm parties, some people like me farming all possible items from primals or coil when lock is eased, so its like 50 or more items which have to be looted by individual, there is no time for mistakes. If you still do mistakes you should go to train parties or kill parties and learn to not do mistakes.
New players wants usually only to be carried. Also in other hand if some new player whisp me that he dont have kill but he is good tank/dps/heal/whatever and he will not do any mistake and he was just unlucky with clear I dont have problem to take him.

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Originally Posted by AeraLure

This is too discriminatory, especially the part about blacklisting people who make mistakes. People need to learn the fight somehow, and they aren't often run in DF or PF. Add an option that allows people who know the fight to completely avoid ever playing with new players and that's how it will end up being used. That's not that good for the game at all.

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Firstly, who people want to blacklist is non-consequential to the discussion as this is a 100% personal option on your own interface.

To the second point:
- The argument from the beginning has been that this would be a PF option only and has completely nothing to do with DF runs at all. As such anyone could still run in DF.
- How is it discriminatory? Allowing a group that wants to do multiple fast clears for loot to have a clear party structure with no surprises really hurts noone.
- If someone who hasn't cleared the fight and doesn't know the mechanics joins a PF that is a farm and is clearly not meant for them then they are the ones that are abusing 7 other people. It is very, very easy to setup a PF clear/learning party.

The problem isn't that people aren't willing to help. It's that in farm parties there is a common theme of first timers joining and deceiving the group to ride out a free clear. This is not fair to the players that are there for the farm.

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Originally Posted by AeraLure

This is too discriminatory, especially the part about blacklisting people who make mistakes. People need to learn the fight somehow, and they aren't often run in DF or PF. Add an option that allows people who know the fight to completely avoid ever playing with new players and that's how it will end up being used. That's not that good for the game at all.

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It's not about blacklisting people who make mistakes, it's about blacklisting nuggets who don't have a clear yet join party even though it's a farm party. Those kinda people deserve to be blacklisted as they're not only liars, but selfish and want to waste people's time. If someone PMs me and asks to politely to join and that they know the fight but don't have a clear, they can join no problem. But jump in without asking me and expect to be carried? Bugger off.

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Originally Posted by AeraLure

This is too discriminatory, especially the part about blacklisting people who make mistakes. People need to learn the fight somehow, and they aren't often run in DF or PF. Add an option that allows people who know the fight to completely avoid ever playing with new players and that's how it will end up being used. That's not that good for the game at all.

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I only joined a clear party earlier purely to help. Gave me no benefit whatsoever. It's not discriminating anyone but the lazies. Don't make out experienced players never help the new people because they do, a lot. But there's a time and a place, and farms aren't one of them.

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Originally Posted by AeraLure

This is too discriminatory, especially the part about blacklisting people who make mistakes. People need to learn the fight somehow, and they aren't often run in DF or PF. Add an option that allows people who know the fight to completely avoid ever playing with new players and that's how it will end up being used. That's not that good for the game at all.

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This is such a weak argument though, and I'm tired of seeing people fall back on this as an excuse. People that want to learn content can easily make their own parties for it if they don't see one in PF. Pretty much any content in the game, if you put up a PF for learning people will join either to learn or to help out. As far as blacklisting, I don't blacklist people that make mistakes unless they refuse to learn from them. I do blacklist liars that sneak into farms to waste seven peoples' time.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Just think, lets say it catches on and the setting gets added to duty finder lets say it does, you haven't done the dungeon so it shoves you into the party with the people who haven't done it, though all the good players who done beat these are moving forward while you get stuck until you learn it while people wont even help you guess that's what you want right.

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And what happens when they go beyond duty finder, and include solo job/MSQ fights too? Nobody will be able to progress because they won't be able to do the solo fights.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

And what happens when they go beyond duty finder, and include solo job/MSQ fights too? Nobody will be able to progress because they won't be able to do the solo fights.

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Sigh.. I haven't even mentioned duty finder. Read the thread or don't bother posting. It's about PARTY finder which is a complete separate feature.

I'm actually going to just add this here one more time.. Party finder and duty finder are complete separate things! If you're going to ignore the thread then don't post because I'm tired of explaining myself when it's literally the first line of the thread. How would doing this to duty finder even work? Again, read the thread before posting please. Comments are appreciated but not if you're going to blatantly ignore the entire subject.

Thanks.

How do people even make the link that it would ever be implemented in DF? Not only does it go against one of the main reasons DF roulette are there, but no other options from PF have made it to DF. Yay for fearmongering.

Also, I really wish the mods would change the title already, the current one attracts too many people who can't read the first post and are unable to understand the difference between Duty Finder and Party Finder. Same goes for that NO More alex NM thread. At least its a lesson in being careful about thread titles I guess. Maybe you should put the request in Luna, they might listen to the OP more than some random.

Hmmm. While I am against having people who haven't cleared join my PF for farms I can't really say that I would be for this. Mainly because it's easily self enforced without the option. Join ---> See Bonus ----> Leave -----> Kick person and or blacklist. If there was a penalty or limitation to backing out of pre-fromed parties I could understand the need but honestly this is very easily self enforced and I would rather have the devs spend time on more content or more need QOL changes than something like this. I wouldn't be upset if they made the change but I don't really think it's necessary at all.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Hmmm. While I am against having people who haven't cleared join my PF for farms I can't really say that I would be for this. Mainly because it's easily self enforced without the option. Join ---> See Bonus ----> Leave -----> Kick person and or blacklist. If there was a penalty or limitation to backing out of pre-fromed parties I could understand the need but honestly this is very easily self enforced and I would rather have the devs spend time on more content or more need QOL changes than something like this. I wouldn't be upset if they made the change but I don't really think it's necessary at all.

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but how do you track down a player that wont admit it?

If I'm the guy that's new and I say its not me there is no way for you to prove thats me. We'd have to start the fight, wipe, respawn, leave, kick, get new people, and restart. That's a rather large inconvenience.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

This is such a weak argument though, and I'm tired of seeing people fall back on this as an excuse.

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Problem is, many that do this do not want to learn, they don't have the patience, they selfishly join with the intent of letting everyone else kill it for them.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

How do people even make the link that it would ever be implemented in DF? Not only does it go against one of the main reasons DF roulette are there, but no other options from PF have made it to DF. Yay for fearmongering.

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Digging for any excuse, no matter how outlandish, to try and counter the idea. Aka, they have no real response.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if those objecting to this idea are the ones who do exactly what this idea would stop. Otherwise there is no reason to be against it.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

but how do you track down a player that wont admit it?

If I'm the guy that's new and I say its not me there is no way for you to prove thats me. We'd have to start the fight, wipe, respawn, leave, kick, get new people, and restart. That's a rather large inconvenience.

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Easy, link your totem (token clear item like page etc.) or the weapon you bought with it or you are getting kicked. It's that simple. It literally takes seconds and if it's in your retainer well you can go grab it real quick I'll wait a sec. Or even link you achievement. If you can't or refuse, buh bye. There is zero excuse why you wouldn't be able to do one of these things.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Easy, link your totem (token clear item like page etc.) or the weapon you bought with it or you are getting kicked. It's that simple. It literally takes seconds and if it's in your retainer well you can go grab it real quick I'll wait a sec. Or even link you achievement. If you can't or refuse, buh bye. There is zero excuse why you wouldn't be able to do one of these things.

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That would work sure, but what if people throw those out... i mean really I dont need tears in my inventory as I won't need them. So your gonna kick somebody cause they want their inventory clear?

If there was a checkmark in PF that disallowed those without the quest clear then there would be a 0% chance of failure or human error. It takes any misunderstanding or bristling personalities out of the question. How is that possibly a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Easy, link your totem (token clear item like page etc.) or the weapon you bought with it or you are getting kicked. It's that simple. It literally takes seconds and if it's in your retainer well you can go grab it real quick I'll wait a sec. Or even link you achievement. If you can't or refuse, buh bye. There is zero excuse why you wouldn't be able to do one of these things.

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*Walks up to NPC in Iddylshire, links straight from the vendor - both the token and the weapon*

/fc "Hey guys,c an someone link me one of the Hive weapons?"

*Examines random player, links their item instead*

Edit-in: Oh, and don't forget you can just re-link what someone says in party.

Three easy workarounds.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

*Walks up to NPC in Iddylshire, links straight from the vendor - both the token and the weapon*

/fc "Hey guys,c an someone link me one of the Hive weapons?"

*Examines random player, links their item instead*

Three easy workarounds.

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Not one of them is a work around to showing you achievement on your profile when when everyone shows a token and we are still getting the message.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Not one of them is a work around to showing you achievement on your profile when when everyone shows a token and we are still getting the message.

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That's still a convoluted process that could easily be handled by the system checking to see if you have the quest clear in your journal. The argument isn't that it cant be done. It's that there is no efficient way for it to be done in the system currently.

Let's be real here, if we go in get a message, drop, and demand a show of tokens and 8/8 people show them, well then someones obv lying. Beyond that the chances of the OP's suggestion getting implemented are small for what should be obvious reasons. So you will either proactively weed these people out when the message pops or deal with them there. That's on you. It's a non issue for me. If the people can't be bothered to take ten seconds to actively show they have the achievement then they can find another party.