Bard and Wanderer's Minuet use it

At first I hated GB. Now that I am use to it and I keep on all the time. Avoiding AOE's while maintaining dps is no problem now. I understand you guys want the run and gun play but in all honesty just give it time and you will see that you are still very mobile. With that said all I want is my auto attacks back so the damage is more noticeable. Plus it would help players get past the cast times. :)

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Yoshi-P disagrees with you. That wasn't my question though... Maybe I should have made my post shorter to get the point through loud and clear. Here, a condensed version:



Just curious if people would treat healers the same or if they have a double standard.

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This makes zero sense, Healer DPS is not taken into consideration in any content so far. Healers DPSing is a bonus afterthought. Bards DPSing is not a bonus afterthought, and they need to optimize their DPS since they take up a DPS slot. If Wanderer's Minuet increases DPS, you need to be using it.

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

You could have more than one bloodletter in those 2.5 seconds, as well as blunt arrow, and misery's end
Having 2 attacks within 2.5 seconds happens often.

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Heh, So a 30 second cooldown 50 potency shot and a 12 second cooldown shot that requires the target to be very nearly dead?
Sometimes, under very specific conditions if im very lucky, i can use an execute, 2 procs and a silence in 3 seconds!
Oh jeez, Ima attacking so fast!

But in all seriousness, 2 attacks in 2.5 seconds is the standard for Wanderers Minuet AND not using it. Any claim of attacking really fast without WM is plain 'ol bulltwat.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Umm. Excuse me? I absolutely have that right. And what you're talking about isn't "skill level" it's intentionally playing subpar. I can deal with low skill level.

I actually have all of those rights. You have the right to ignore me, but I totally have the right to say "You need to use WM."

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Thats the mentality white racist or ignorant people use when they are told they cant say the n word. "YES WE CAN!" just saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jto8PcVqSmw

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I just cant understand how anyone could find that they do more DPS with WM off unless its a fight that requires a lot of dodging.

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Interestingly enough, the cross-class skill Feint will still be fully Instant cast under the effects of Gauss Barrel. Assuming that Wanderer's Minuet more or less functions the same way, Bards under WM can still have good mobility when they need to move; opting to use Feint instead. Feint has a 120 potency attached to it, albeit slightly weaker than a Heavy Shot, but is still quite strong and nothing to scoff at considering the 30% damage boost. :O

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Originally Posted by ScarecrowJames

Thats the mentality white racist or ignorant people use when they are told they cant say the n word. "YES WE CAN!" just saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jto8PcVqSmw

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You're really comparing people telling you to use WM to people using the N word?

I'm done. This is getting ridiculous now.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Interestingly enough, the cross-class skill Feint will still be fully Instant cast under the effects of Gauss Barrel. Assuming that Wanderer's Minuet more or less functions the same way, Bards under WM can still have good mobility when they need to move; opting to use Feint instead. Feint has a 120 potency attached to it, albeit slightly weaker than a Heavy Shot, but is still quite strong and nothing to scoff at considering the 30% damage boost. :O

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Tis probably a bug. I wouldn't get used to it, GB and WM explicitly state "All weaponskills". Assume it'll be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Tis probably a bug. I wouldn't get used to it, GB and WM explicitly state "All weaponskills". Assume it'll be fixed.

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In all honesty, they would've caught it by now and fixed it.

A minuet is a dance. Bards stance dance...


And stop
And on
And shoot
Shoot
Shoot
And off
And move
And zip
Zip
Zip
And stop
And on
And


Well you get the point

Bards are mobile DPS that can kick on a DPS bonus when they have the time to stand still.

Also sing.. We like it when bards sing...

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

No you don't, If you can get the group to agree with you and kick them. That is fine, You have no right to tell others how to play when you queue for a dungeon or raid. You pick ease of access, at the cost of not being able to pick the rules for that group.

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Anyone has the right to tell someone how to play or to give tips on how to play {as long as your not a asshole about it}

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Originally Posted by UltimateAoe2

In all honesty, they would've caught it by now and fixed it.

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A bug two weeks after launch involving a cross classed weaponskill almost no players ever equipped not being ironed out yet? Whodathunkit!

Sarcasm aside, Given that i have literally never seen a BRD or MCH use Feint (Hell, never even seen a DRG use it XD) I'm not surprised in the slightest that something like this slipped under the radar.
True to its wording, every single weaponskill learned by MCH or BRD has the cast, so i have to assume this was a bug.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Tis probably a bug. I wouldn't get used to it, GB and WM explicitly state "All weaponskills". Assume it'll be fixed.

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Quite possibly. Would be a shame though. However, it is also quite likely that it isn't a bug either. It is considered a cross-class ability, and it originally comes from the Lancer skill tree. Still, It's strange though. Why doesn't the game consider a weaponskill itself, not a weaponskill? Maybe it has to do with the fact that Feint uses the animation of the original weapon (in this case a spear), similar to that of other classes/jobs cross-classing from other skill trees. Eh, time will tell. Fingers crosses that they don't touch it. I like my pseudo-Scathe as it is, thank you very much. >:c

Y'know, magical fists and all.

http://i.gyazo.com/d07a55d43a0ac015a35392adfb83feb2.gif

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Y'know, magical fists and all.

http://i.gyazo.com/d07a55d43a0ac015a35392adfb83feb2.gif

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You made me choke on my pepsi with that gif.

It is possible its not a bug, But given the description on WM/GB i have to assume it is. Not going to stop me from finally having a fifth crossclass though ... I'm sure i'll end up using it a bit myself, just not going to be surprised or upset when they fix it.

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Originally Posted by ScarecrowJames

its not about blms being longer or not, its about bards having that when they didnt.

Changing their gameplay they have played for several years.

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PLD now have 3 combos instead of 1, and can't use the 3 with 100% uptime.
SMN now have a completly different rotation, and when 100% DoT uptime was key before, it's not so important now. They drastically changed their priorities.
BLM now have to manage a completly new buff which changes everything for them.
DRG positionnals are back when they were gone, changing their gameplay yet again.

... and you tell us that BRD can't adapt to their change when almost everyone else has to do the same thing? Come on... BRD players are not special snowflakes.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

PLD now have 3 combos instead of 1, and can't use the 3 with 100% uptime.
SMN now have a completly different rotation, and when 100% DoT uptime was key before, it's not so important now. They drastically changed their priorities.
BLM now have to manage a completly new buff which changes everything for them.
DRG positionnals are back when they were gone, changing their gameplay yet again.

... and you tell us that BRD can't adapt to their change when almost everyone else has to do the same thing? Come on... BRD players are not special snowflakes.

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All those changes don't actually change the mechanics of the class though.... What happened to BRD was bascially:

"Oh you've had instant abilities this whole time? let me just turn you into a physical mage"

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

All those changes don't actually change the mechanics of the class though.... What happened to BRD was bascially:

"Oh you've had instant abilities this whole time? let me just turn you into a physical mage"

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1.5s wind up time doesn't change the mechanics of the class.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

1.5s wind up time doesn't change the mechanics of the class.

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But it does? you're changing the entire class by making it a turret-like caster, at this point it feels like a derped version of Black Mage, how can you deny this?

I'm fully aware the new song isn't used 24/7 and only during windows of opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact they are leaning towards a caster-like ranged physical class, which is NOT what the majority of BRDs signed up for.

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

But it does? you're changing the entire class by making it a turret-like caster, at this point it feels like a derped version of Black Mage, how can you deny this?

I'm fully aware the new song isn't used 24/7 and only during windows of opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact they are leaning towards a caster-like ranged physical class, which is NOT what the majority of BRDs signed up for.

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Considering you can move at 1.2s and still make the shot go off, and leave yourself with an extra second to plow through oGCD's, and move into another position, does not make you turret-like. Not to mention most BRD's in 2.0 did not move much unless mechanics called for it, because there wasn't a reason for it and sometimes it'd be a DPS loss. The mechanics of bard did not change. All that has changed is you have a wind up time for more damage, that you can toggle off to run around in circles or whatever it is you like to do.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

There's 2 spots where the tornados never go during that second phase.

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...bismarckex.jpg

The two little ovals is about the area where they'll never run to you. Give it a bit of a trial and error, and you'll find that sweet spot. I've cleared Bismarck Ex as BLM.

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Thank you for this.

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

But it does? you're changing the entire class by making it a turret-like caster, at this point it feels like a derped version of Black Mage, how can you deny this?

I'm fully aware the new song isn't used 24/7 and only during windows of opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact they are leaning towards a caster-like ranged physical class, which is NOT what the majority of BRDs signed up for.

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Please stop comparing the job to Black Mage.

oh, so thats why I have been getting recommendations as a bard and I still suck because I just started to play the expansion a few days ago.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

1.5s wind up time doesn't change the mechanics of the class.

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yeah it does, you always have to run after healers who keep running away from your ballad.

If a healer is running away from your Ballad, then that's a problem they need to fix (which is "get closer"). Not you... unless you're way off somewhere that even Foe's Requiem won't affect the mob.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

If a healer is running away from your Ballad, then that's a problem they need to fix (which is "get closer"). Not you... unless you're way off somewhere that even Foe's Requiem won't affect the mob.

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That seems to happen always in moogle extreme and coil turn 5.

Ran aetherochemical last night with 2 bards, not single one if them were using WM. I don't have a problem with that, let them play what they want, what they feel comfortable. Still they wrecked the dungeon though.

My point is, If they don't wanna use it, then let them be, no need to force them or anything. You'll get smoother run.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

My point is, If they don't wanna use it, then let them be, no need to force them or anything. You'll get smoother run.

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Yknow how the run could be even smoother, though? If they just used it.

Edit: without necessitating force, if that wasnt clear

You can force them too, yeah, but it will interrupt their state if mind, which will make dg run longer. Let them play what they like.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Ran aetherochemical last night with 2 bards, not single one if them were using WM. I don't have a problem with that, let them play what they want, what they feel comfortable. Still they wrecked the dungeon though.

My point is, If they don't wanna use it, then let them be, no need to force them or anything. You'll get smoother run.

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You would have a even smoother one if they used it. They are just lowering their own DPS and slowing down the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Remus

You would have a even smoother one if they used it. They are just lowering their own DPS and slowing down the dungeon.

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As I say in my above post, you could disrupt their state of mind if you're forcing something they dont like to do, which will probably make the dungeon longer.

I don't understand why most of the back and forth debates in this thread have been with people who aren't even main BRDs....anyways I've played BRD since 2.0 released and I loved the whole being able to move and pew pew thing which technically I still have under WM i'm just slightly slower at it since of the cast on my arrows. I am not a fan of WM but I use it to get passed content/speed things up.

Tbh I like the burst of damage I get when I crit under WM it's nice to see my HS crit for 1k+, I just dislike that clunky feel of it. When I want to pop an ability it feels like it takes longer since the oGCD/ability I used won't go off till the cast is over and it's not even a game breaking thing it's just a personal gripe.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

My point is, If they don't wanna use it, then let them be, no need to force them or anything. You'll get smoother run.

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You're right. I should adopt this strategy for when I level my paladin. Only going to use Riot blade. You can't force me to use Rage of Halone. It'll be smoother runs. I promise.

tldr "we cant just sit back and hit 11111 and up keep a whole 2 dots and think were not support dps",a good bard will only move when needed a terrible bard will run around like a chicken with there head cut off
unfortunely for us about 85% of the commuity is the latter and the good ones will which will be hard to find because there with people that are competent, a good bard will use WM and do dmg while terrible brd will do subpar dmg and be a POS waste of space who dont know how to buttons, so pretty much everyone who complains about WM being bad.

I've been trying really hard to like this job, and at the moment I can't. I love the idea of WM, but the implementation is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. The fluidity, the timing of cooldowns, the idea that Bard is becoming a turret and we can't help with mechanics (unless we sacrifice dps), and the general leniency melee have over range is all disheartening. I'm not quite done with Bard, but I don't enjoy thinking of their future.

With my experience so far, Bard DPS is not high like melee but we can maintain our dps even with heavy mechanic like Alex floor 4. For melee they can up to 1.4k DPS but can drop to 600 in a second, Bard not like that we can maintain DPS because we are semi mobile. From what I see overall DPS from Alex fight for Bard and Melee DPS is not much different.

What I don't like is Bard now can be consider difficult to use... I've seen lately lvl60 healer MP easily to drain at Alex floor 4, bit hard to manage song when you have 2 BLM in party and to check your rotation because WM need you to stay focus with CD and many things.

But I love it when I can burst add up to 3/4 their HP with EA.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Because I didn't roll and main a bard to have the playstyle completely change in the expansion. I'll see if it's now at least useable after the fixes, but I'm primarily going to continue playing the way I want. Thanks.

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Sure go ahead. Waste the skills SE gave you to have more DPS.

WM is used when you don't have to move and dodge AOEs. If you still run around like a headless chicken even if there's no need to dodge anything then the problem is in your end.

My issue with it is I enjoy faceroll easy content in what is supposed to be a casual game, but seems everyone is asking for harder and harder game. Getting to point I don't think you can consider it a casual game anymore.

It depends on what your opinion on face-roll easy is. If it's mini-boss in F1 face-roll, then I'm sorry, but... no. I find that very boring. If it's F1 Opressor, then fine. That has mechanics you can't ignore and is pretty neat.

Wanderer's Minuet doesn't make BRD hard. It just gives it more abilities to use and a somewhat different playstyle. I'm honestly surprised there's not a flood of BLM complaint topics about, because Enochian and Blizzard IV annoy the hell out of me sometime's (before we only had to worry about Astral and Umbral and MP, but not by a huge margin. Now we have to grow seven eyes and have them all focusing on buff timers and remaining MP and how long a spell will take the cast and... gurgh).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It depends on what your opinion on face-roll easy is. If it's mini-boss in F1 face-roll, then I'm sorry, but... no. I find that very boring. If it's F1 Opressor, then fine. That has mechanics you can't ignore and is pretty neat.

Wanderer's Minuet doesn't make BRD hard. It just gives it more abilities to use and a somewhat different playstyle. I'm honestly surprised there's not a flood of BLM complaint topics about, because Enochian and Blizzard IV annoy the hell out of me sometime's (before we only had to worry about Astral and Umbral and MP, but not by a huge margin. Now we have to grow seven eyes and have them all focusing on buff timers and remaining MP and how long a spell will take the cast and... gurgh).

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Nestama I fully agree with every comment you made in this thread ...every single one. It is so refreshing to hear the reality of BLM, the severe limitations of the timers and bad design in no way can be compared to the BRD changes. (i have compassion for any person that has not liked their job changes but they can not be compared)

Sadly long time blm like myself , Im simply gathering some gear atm as BLM and will immediately switch to SMN after thats finished. BLM can be tucked away forever until they see that the mobility restrictions, non refreshing timers...are simply not well designed for the 99% movement fights that they keep adding.

I was all for learning a new rotation and using new spells...np there at all, but they simply are not being realistic.

As blm anything that screws up the timers being refreshed (which is very often with so many fights that focus aoe on blm ..bosses that become untargettable, long periods of aoe waves etc... have actually hurt blm far more then a short interrupt of brd. At least they can start at full potency again after moving...but with blm its usually not the case...its yet another painfully slow start IF timers are reset...and pray that aoe leave us alone for 3 s ...which tbh is very very rare.

SMN is so much more enjoyable and realistic and will definately be new main.

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Originally Posted by RamzaRuglia

snip

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Again i applaud you, you actually understand unlike all the other people, haha
I have said it before just like blm there is a threshold that your attack will still go off if you move. People seem to be not aware of this.
I keep Minuet up almost all the time and have no issues.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Would you accept a summoner or scholar not using their pet because they "don't like managing it"?
A paladin not turning on shield oath when tanking because "I can hold aggro just fine"?
A black mage not using enochian because "I didn't sign up to manage a stack"?
Hell, would you accept another bard not using Wind Bite/Venomous Shot because "I'm not here to play a DoT class"?
etc etc

The price you're paying isn't just what you're paying - it's what you're making everyone else that you play with pay too, because you're choosing to sabotage your own capabilities, so they have to make up for yours.

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It's no use the person you quoted bitches ALL the time about Bard. Perhaps the issue at hand is the operator

I bet that I can out dps you without using WM in most fights. At least if randoms from pf and df are any indication of how wm bards play.

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Then you may end up being kicked for not using it and that won't be fun i'm guessing

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Never happens. I have yet to use it and I've been in a LOT of dungeons, trials, and raids since HW. I took an entire week off and just played this game. No one has kicked me. They have had to kick others for poor dps in the new extreme trials though. I have yet to be one of the worst dps in the group.