DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

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Originally Posted by Nalien

The only remaining 'issue' is "I don't want to see people dueling", which is an absurd complaint. I honestly don't know why people play an MMO if seeing other people enjoying the game is some kind of issue for them... Why is it OK to have people spamming attacks on a Treasure Hunt mob but duels are somehow an issue? I really cannot understand that mentality...

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People who use this excuse are really scraping the bottom of the barrel in a desperate attempt to deny dueling in the game. I usually just dismiss it as nonsense and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Why do people keep equating duels to open world PvP? They are two entirely different things...

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I guess I didn't go through and quote the people bringing up Open World PvP. Sorry. I did give my two gil on 1 vs 1 dueling some pages back, though.

:)

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Originally Posted by Nalien

How often does someone harass you to play Triple Triad? How often does someone harass you with trade blocks (when teleporting/etc.) or just verbally?

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Hmm I never see any JP people harass anyone on Gold Saucer when playing Triple Triad or the Tournament so I don't know if it happen in NA.

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Originally Posted by Eul

Hmm I never see any JP people harass anyone on Gold Saucer when playing Triple Triad or the Tournament so I don't know if it happen in NA.

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It doesn't. That's the point. Triple Triad is effectively PvP, just card based rather than combat based. No one goes out of their way to harass others to show off how "good" they are at Triple Triad, why would they with Duels? We'd also have a smaller pool of people even caring about Duels. Anyone who doesn't PvP already isn't going to suddenly turn into an asshole and go around 1v1ing everyone, for the most part only existing PvPers would really care, any PvEer wants to use Duels to harass I'll gladly put them down instantly since they'd no doubt be terrible at PvP. Seeing people out and about having a Duel might encourage more people to give PvP a go though, though with queues in an excess of 30 minutes I can only see that as a good thing.

The idea of having Duels take place in the colliseum/Golden Saucer is great.

Also I would it would be great if there were designated senic areas where to do pvp battle just like there are only certain areas you can play Triple Triad.

Imo it would add more life to the game itself

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

What is the Final Fantasy "spirit"? This sounds like a term that someone made up to push an anti-PVP agenda.

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The Final Fantasy spirit is teamwork. The characters working together to save the world. Not fighting each other.

Better tell SE to stop making Dissidia games.

They could make dueling work similar to maps, you pop an item and it places you in an open world instance, maybe make it like some triggers where you have a limited area and once out whoever is in wins, I think how to set this up is you make a party with 2-8 people, one pops the item, the others then confirm(20s or so) and those that do basically enter the combat zone and can fight, nobody outside the zone should be able to perform any action on the people in the zone. Could imagine some fun fights in certain areas - of course I'd limit it to avoid sanctuaries.

As an extension could add different rulesets - free for all - just time limited who has the most kills at the end wins, king of the hill - defend a location until time expires, capture the flag - bring an item to certain point enough times... and so on. But everyone would be on their own - no groups or anything(atleast officially).

Aaand bump

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Originally Posted by Conradus

Not fighting each other.

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Looks like your final fantasy "spirit" is already contradicted by PVP already being in FFXIV.

Through all these pages I still don't see a compelling reason why not. "someone might be rude about it!" Oh no! This is an online game, if you shoot down something on the basis that someone might be rude about it then you're left with an empty .exe file and a lot of bitterness.

The real issue is people use duels as the measuring stick to which job is considered strongest. If people would be allowed to duel then the job that wins the most duels would be complained about being the strongest and wanting SE to fix/nerf said job based on duel.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

The real issue is people use duels as the measuring stick to which job is considered strongest. If people would be allowed to duel then the job that wins the most duels would be complained about being the strongest and wanting SE to fix/nerf said job based on duel.

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Wait, how would you know this would happen? Dueling hasn't even been implemented in the game yet. Where do you draw such an assumption from?

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Originally Posted by Galdous

The real issue is people use duels as the measuring stick to which job is considered strongest. If people would be allowed to duel then the job that wins the most duels would be complained about being the strongest and wanting SE to fix/nerf said job based on duel.

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I really can't see this hypothetical actually coming true. Even in more pvp focused games most players are aware that 1v1 balance is entirely different from group dynamics. As it is right now there's a small handful of people that complain about frontlines balance, but they're massively overwhelmed by the "yeah, but it's supposed to be badly balanced because the game is balanced around group pve content" crowd. I don't see why this pattern would not only not hold true, but flip to an immediate reversal and demand for 1v1 pvp balance. There are numerous other reasons that this wouldn't be a problem for ffxiv's specific case, one being that you can level all jobs and could duel with them interchangeably. That BLM getting all uppity? Switch to BRD and show him what's what. No big deal.

For each argument I've seen against duels there's an immediate and obvious counterargument that I can't help but feel people are actively ignoring.

Edit: On the subject of cognitive dissonance, I'm really enjoying how "the real issue" changes every page or two, and how we've all been so obviously blind to the core argument...

Wouldn't it be possible to do something like Triple Triad? Have an area where you'd be able to send requests to people within that area for the duel? If you wanted to participate, go to said area and find others willing to do the same? I'm neither for nor against it. I hardly participate in PvP as it is, but that doesn't mean I don't find the idea intriguing. Just a thought...

'final fantasy spirit' lol...

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

'final fantasy spirit' lol...

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My reaction too. What a laughable argument.

I'm telling you, the rationale of some people against adding even pretty basic stuff to this game is just bizarre, as is the hyper-sensitivity. I'm eagerly awaiting the threads after heavens ward launches by people complaining that someone was "flying too close to them".

http://i.imgur.com/dV74Le6.png

http://i.imgur.com/86S6iLo.png

http://i.imgur.com/iUHjX4K.png

http://i.imgur.com/WYMvXjz.png

http://i.imgur.com/SkmVzRe.png

Last I checked the "spirit" of Final Fantasy and of Erozea is just fine with with us testing our martial ability against one another.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Last I checked the "spirit" of Final Fantasy and of Erozea is just fine with with us testing our martial ability against one another.

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Glad I'm not the only one who thought of that quest.

Bumpity bump, I badly want this to become an actual thing.

Bumping alongside you.

ADVENTURER SPAR (1 on 1 battles for fun)
Slight Story Spoilers

Lore wise, a duel/spar occurs with Hoary Boulder and his partner against the Warrior of Light, so it fits perfectly within the lore of the world.

Description:
Spar with your fellow adventurers in a one-on-one match to test your merit and for amusement!

Rules and Regulations:
1. You cannot initiate a Spar during the following conditions:

-You are currently in a Sanctuary.
-You are currently in a Spar.
-You are currently Level-synced, in Dungeon or Treasure Map. (you may duel during FATEs that aren't Level-synced.)
-You are currently Gathering or Crafting.
-The other adventurer has Spar Request disabled.
-Either adventurer is currently Teleporting.

2. You may request a fellow Adventurer to a duel, and after they accept, the match will begin in 5 seconds.
3. After the fight begins, you will be in a one-on-one battle against the other adventurer with the goal to lower their hit points to 0.
4. The battle is not ranked by any scores, and is merely for entertainment.
5. When the match is over, you will receive a "raise" in which you can choose to accept or decline.
6. If someone has Spar Request disabled, you cannot Spar with them.
7. If someone proceeds to a different map, the Spar request or current Spar is cancelled instantly.

Honestly i would like an area in towns designated for duels. Allowed challenges to duels in open world, any where out side of the cities/ sanctuaries. An option to block incoming duel request via character options (the possibility of abuse is real, i admit that fully, as such it should also be tied to black list) . Duels should be regulated people of the same level (30, 50, 60) with item level caped to lowest duelist (or base line for the corresponding levels). Those that do not want to duel should not be made to, simple as that, but to take away such fun and possibly great teaching option is just short sighted and sad.

People, we play as heroes in a fantasy setting. While i admit there would be some that will cause problems, i believe it is no different than disagreements with speedruns, hunts, FC drama, item level lockouts, unrealistic/ ignorant PF demands, ect... I would like very much to fight my brother's WAR against my DRK, we have dueled in WoW (warrior vs Death Knight), SWTOR (Sith Juggernaut vs Sith Juggernaut), Diablo 3 (Barbarian vs Crusader), ect... Every time it was some of the most fun, epic fights i had. It wasn't about who had better gear, or the best rotation set up, it certainly was not about mean spirited, or the harassing of another person. it came down to fighting a living, breathing, thinking opponent, that could give a true challenge that no other in game content can. Looking at previous post some people who want this have gone as far as to fore go any kind of reward for the system, they simply want what many feel to be an aspect that has come to be expected in MMORPG's.

(edit)
What about a quest that allows a player to take part in duels? If one has no interest in participating, then they simply have the option of not doing the quest.

If we can fight each other in Cartenau Flats for dumb reasons, we can spar/duel with each other too. :)
Lorewise it is not impossible, it is just carebears who are afraid of being harrassed by duel requests while ignore all requests option could be easily added. :rolleyes::eek:

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

If we can fight each other in Cartenau Flats for dumb reasons, we can spar/duel with each other too. :)
Lorewise it is not impossible, it is just carebears who are afraid of being harrassed by duel requests while ignore all requests option could be easily added. :rolleyes::eek:

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Damn straight we're carebears, and proud of it. In case you haven't noticed, FFXIV is a carebear game. While I haven't taken a poll, I think most of us like it that way.

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Originally Posted by Conradus

In case you haven't noticed, FFXIV is a carebear game.

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Last time I checked it was a game with a sudden difficulty spike come endgame with a fairly toxic community. Not to mention an MMO which is meant to appeal to a wide range of people, rather than one single demographic.

Funnily enough, back when I actually bothered, Frontlines seemed like a fairly inviting place where people would talk and offer advice and not only communicate strategies, but follow them. Wish I could say the same about any PvE Duty Finder content which more often (seemingly every Crystal Tower run) just ends up with people hurling insults and abandoning instantly. Always found that amusing considering the crux of any anti-PvP argument always seems to end up being little more than "But PvP is mean!".

I mean really, I recall one run where nobody was on healer. Myself and another player decided to switch, he seemed fairly inexperienced with PvP but everyone helpfully explained for him what would likely happen (everyone would target them) and how to use skills like Attunement. I outright stated that I've not played my Scholar at all in a very long time, had trouble remembering where actions were, may have hit (and wasted) LB on one occasion. Everyone was understanding and nobody really lost their shit. We came second, everyone seemed to enjoy themselves, nobody uttered a single vitriol filled word, nobody left midway through (though with PvP queues being what they are I guess that's a non-point). Meanwhile I can't seem to go a single World of Darkness run without seeing someone go absolutely ballistic over some tiny thing. I can only imagine the amount of unbridled rage people would fling if someone wasted in LB in WoD...

I'd actually say PvP is more "care bear" than any of the PvE endgame content. You can't lose. Sure, you can come second or third, but you still get rewarded. Losing in PvP is still rewarding, you still progress through the ranks, get the gear, hopefully get better in general. You lose once at Titan EX? Half the party leaves and you have to start again from scratch.

Bumping thread

I wouldn't mind if they added dueling for people who want it idk if I would be happy about it though...I'd likely have it blocked.

One time on WoW I was flying out of Stormwind on my druid, my phone rang and I went to get it leaving my PC. Anyway I come back 5 mins later and apparently this one guy had kept challenging me to a duel while I was AFK. They Duel a lot out of Stormwind and it wasn't the best place to AFK but I was pretty high up in the air and well phone call is phone call I didn't have time to get to somewhere else.

This was fine that he was challenging me but when I looked at my chat log...dear god not only had he challenged me like 8 times during my absence but he also started sending me really disguting PMs. Like these messages were just beyond effed up, I cannot even repeat them I would be banned 50 times over they were really that bad and utterly sickening what this player typed to me for no reason other than ignoring his duels cause he thought I was a, to put it very nicely, a coward.

I am not joking about how sick the things he typed were, they weren't just swearing at me, he said things he'd do to me irl and to my family and my children etc, stuff that seriously this person might need to be committed to an institution for.

I mean yeah its the internet, this person can't actually get to me and some of the things he typed I just stopped reading after I saw some of them and I blacklisted and logged out to clear my chat...but still, no one should see that stuff or be harassed for not dueling.

So I mean I understand why some people don't want it and some do, it could be fun, and not saying this community would have people like that but I am kinda unsure about if I would be happy they added it.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

If we can fight each other in Cartenau Flats for dumb reasons, we can spar/duel with each other too. :)
Lorewise it is not impossible, it is just carebears who are afraid of being harrassed by duel requests while ignore all requests option could be easily added. :rolleyes::eek:

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If they implemented it with the block duel option set off for default then I'm pretty sure more players wouldn't care. The "carebear" crap doesn't help convince people of your opinion though.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Last time I checked it was a game with a sudden difficulty spike come endgame with a fairly toxic community. Not to mention an MMO which is meant to appeal to a wide range of people, rather than one single demographic.

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Relative to other gaming communities this one is pretty good. It could be better, but it's not exactly a cesspool of awful either. FFXIV is definitely meant to appeal to more than one group of players.

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Wish I could say the same about any PvE Duty Finder content which more often (seemingly every Crystal Tower run) just ends up with people hurling insults and abandoning instantly. Always found that amusing considering the crux of any anti-PvP argument always seems to end up being little more than "But PvP is mean!".

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CT and WoD in particular can get really terrible. Any DF activity has that potential but those two seem to attract the trolliest trolls. No argument there. I don't PvP, but I like instanced PVP being in the game. It's good for the game I think to have it. Dueling, if players aren't bothered by duel spam (set the flag "no" by default) would be a fine addition. I start getting iffy on larger wPVP implementations, but even that could be implemented in a low-grief way.

I get the feeling that most people's dislike of pvp comes from gank fests in wPVP in other games.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

The "carebear" crap doesn't help convince people of your opinion though.

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He's just telling it how it is. That "carebear" crap is a very real excuse that people try to use to not have dueling implemented.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

He's just telling it how it is. That "carebear" crap is a very real excuse that people try to use to not have dueling implemented.

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And dropping to name calling doesn't help make your case. If SE implemented it, with controls from the start to prevent the spam requests, the only thing you'd have to do is ask dissenters "How does this affect you? Not at all? Then why are you arguing?"

Why can't they just set up dueling as a system from inside a party that the leader sets up a game mode and teams with?

You don't get any extra invite spam, you can have multiple modes, and if the party leader was gonna troll you with it, he'd have sent you into the wrong dungeon anyways so you don't actually get any extra abuse.

Use this style to set up 1v1 or 4v4 sets. Have it be elimination, or kill the vip style modes of duels. Anything else could just be understood decisions by the party (classes not to use, ect). This permits full use of sparring without the slight abuse people are so frightened of.

And you guys all need to chill out, I think most are here just to have a verbal fight. It should be about HOW to go about adding MORE not whether or not more is a good idea. Compromise people, there is ALWAYS a way to make both sides happy.

Don't want this at all. There is no point in 1v1 pvp even in just dueling when every real pvp feature is team based. It's just for e-peen and I don't think it has a place here, and I don't want the kind of environment it creates.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

If we can fight each other in Cartenau Flats for dumb reasons, we can spar/duel with each other too. :)
Lorewise it is not impossible, it is just carebears who are afraid of being harrassed by duel requests while ignore all requests option could be easily added. :rolleyes::eek:

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Care bear? Maybe we do not want to be around as your ego inflates from smack talking as you spam duel requests on people 50 I level below you to give you some conceived notion of superiority. Please just go stand around in your snow flake pose in Rev Toll and not worry about something SE is smart enough to not implement. Last thing I need along with the random casino's, raid mercenary-gil seller groups, rmt and elitist wanna be's spamming shout with a numerical record of owning people.

Unless you want to stream with your gloat comments as you steamroll people 50 i level below you. I highly doubt you will attract many viewers that way.

While I'm not big into PVP...

I wouldn't mind this as a Wolves Den mode.

Guildies and I on RO used to go into an empty PVP map (they took copies of maps of the original main cities and set them as PVP zones) and duel for fun or play a deadly hide-and-go-seek ------
or just completely mess around for fun. Sometimes that messing about wasn't even dueling - like a STR/VIT whitesmith with natural fire def wearing all fire resistant gear guildleader and my Agi/Int Hindsight Sorcerer soul linked with firebolt set for hindsight.... and just wailing away with my book on my guild leader for shits, giggles and seeing crap tons of level 10 firebolts beating the snot outta him (and then a guildie decides to be funny and start something while we're distracted - and we promptly put them in their place... but it's all done with laughs at the end from all of us). Or just, "Okay I'm bored now, someone kill me *Everyone slaps the person out of the PVP zone all at once*" (as you're ejected from the PVP if you die twice)
Not a fan of parties coming in and steam rolling us on sight, though =p
But a duel offer requirement would alleviate that.

Every now and then I wish I could do the same thing. My MNK vs my old RO guild leader's NIN or my WHM vs whomever. or just poke around for shits and giggles. Not for bragging or 'better than thou' rights, but more like a friendly arm wrestles or sparring.

Worst I can see from implementing a duel system (with acceptance system) is harassment of the five year old child kind;

"omg u suk fight me"
"No"
"omg thats cause you suck so u wont fight me lolololol omg lol u suck"

Bad typing and all.

Going to start being insulting and call people carebears are you? How about there's plenty of folks who don't like epeening little PVPers and have had enough experience with the type to pretty much loathe them. I have zero problem with you people having your little measuring contests in a private area where I don't have to see it. No need to do it in public unless you just want attention/like being a nuisance.

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Originally Posted by Orspeth

Going to start being insulting and call people carebears are you? How about there's plenty of folks who don't like epeening little PVPers and have had enough experience with the type to pretty much loathe them. I have zero problem with you people having your little measuring contests in a private area where I don't have to see it. No need to do it in public unless you just want attention/like being a nuisance.

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Maybe they just want to make an event. Raiders are much more sinister then PvPers.

If your going to not add features because of a 1% instance you might as well remove dungeons and raids from the game.

"Someone kicked me out at the end of a dungeon, so that means you shouldn't add them!"
"Someone didn't like the way I was in a raid and kicked me out, raids suck!"

This is why we don't have interesting dynamic content. Its obvious they don't add such features and content because people are too immature to handle it.

Dueling would be fun. There's no reason to not have it. Don't want to do it? Have an option to disable it by default. Harrassment? Blacklist, report and move on, because only an extremely small minority would do something like that. If you're not interested, that's fine, but deliberately asking for a feature to NOT be implemented just because you MIGHT get offended in the future is childish.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Dueling would be fun. There's no reason to not have it. Don't want to do it? Have an option to disable it by default. Harrassment? Blacklist, report and move on, because only an extremely small minority would do something like that. If you're not interested, that's fine, but deliberately asking for a feature to NOT be implemented just because you MIGHT get offended in the future is childish.

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Yes, but they are also admitting they are too immature to have such features in video games. Who knows? If we got Open World PvP maybe we can actually get some interesting Open World Content!