Fan Census: This is embarrassing

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Lag is the fallback excuse in 95% of cases when someone has failed to react in time to a mechanic.

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Isn't that the definition of lag?

A lot of times I am fully left the circle but still get hit by AOEs. You have to be out of the circle for a full 0.5 seconds or it seems to hit you.

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Originally Posted by Adire

As people have said, people should only be embarrassed (assuming it is even worth getting embarrassed about, which in my opinion it's not) if they are defeated at a personal level. Japan's culture being one that encourages planning and teamwork over one that encourages individualism and the fact that coil takes an investment to complete is why these numbers are as they are. This is not a good example of a competition between players, and if anything only highlights that a culture more about long term devotion to completing a goal succeeds in a challenge that requires as such more than a culture that is not about it.

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I keep seeing this and about how america/west prefers being able to show their individualism but looking at the amount of 'team jump rope' complaints (focusing on the part where one person screws up everybody dies), I'm inclined to believe otherwise. Unless the west wants to be the star player in their own group but none of the responsibility. I fail to see how that's something to tout about though.

I also doubt that japanese players care enough about competition western games to have a big enough player pool to produce any decent 'champions', especially in shooters of all things.

I haven't cleared any of final coil yet sadly.

Before I took a 2 month break back at the end of Jan most of my final coil experience was in Pick up groups where the levels of skill varied greatly, in truth it seemed lots of people weren't interested in forming groups or groups that did recruit run at times I'm not able too due to work or time zones.
I've tried my hand at leading a coil group myself in the past for second coil and got quite far. But it's not something I'd do again, I found it quite stressful recruiting members or picking up odds and sods due to the lack of commitment- maybe 6/8 in a group will be on time for coil each day but then you'd get the odd 1 or 2 that come and go and most time during events would be seeking a replacement, which may or may not have led to successful runs regardless.

I've been running with my FC now just to play catch up, but most of us are casual-ish now anyway.
My main point isn't that I haven't been able to clear it necessarily but I've not really had a great opportunity to give it a good attempt until recently.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Isn't that the definition of lag?

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Not in this context, no.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

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I am referring to the fact that Japan's overall culture encourages teamwork and longterm investment more than NA's culture, particularly America's. I'm pretty sure it's not unreasonable to say that this bleeds over into JP gaming culture and NA gaming culture. I can provide many arguments that show that Japan's culture is more focused on the "us" than the "me" if you'd like. One person messing up can cause everyone to die. This is integral to the definition of a successful team though is it not? If one person does not do their part, the entire team suffers?

And you'd be surprised. Western games take off in Japan quite often, including Fpses.

http://www.destructoid.com/battlefie...t-265717.phtml
http://kotaku.com/5964525/forget-the...s-call-of-duty

As a couple of examples.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Not in this context, no.

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This old bag o bones lags more than my internet does. Reflexes just aren't what they use to be. Maybe I should take up drinking again.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Okay, I get that people have a thing against selling clears, and that's fine, but there's no way we should bring up selling clears as part of the problem of having less clears.

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If selling clears is such lucrative way to make money, why would the clear-sellers help others for free?

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Originally Posted by Anneliese

If selling clears is such lucrative way to make money, why would the clear-sellers help others for free?

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What makes you think they would bother running it at all anymore if they couldn't make money?

Oh..my. This escalated rather quickly...

/sit....still eating my popcorn from 2:23 pm..

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Originally Posted by Natashio

Oh..my. This escalated rather quickly...

/sit....still eating my popcorn from 2:23 pm..

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I got my tin of popcorn for this :D

If less drama sure it's working.
I'm wondering if official parser is coming out.

If JA gamers are all hardcore and, as mentioned before, they only play games they are actually good at and there's apparently "no casual JA gamers" then why the hell isn't it 100% of or even 90% of their server cleared FCoB? 15.60% on the highest server is kinda meh. What are the other 84.40% of the players on the highest server doing?

Maybe JA has higher clear success rates cuz their gamers won't do content they can't handle (I really don't know tbh I'm just speculating with no facts), but the fact remains, 84.40% of the TOP server hasn't cleared FCoB. Does that make them casuals too? What are they exactly? I just know that's a large % of players that towers over the raider %.

This was an interesting read. OP clearly wanted to incite a reaction, and he or she has succeeded.

If only those bots weren't mining and spamming gil tells 24/7, then MAYBE NA servers would get better numbers.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

[RANT]
Sure, real life does sometimes clash with raid times and you won't be able to make it, but do you really need to see granny every Wednesday, the one day everyone else can make, when you could see her on Thursday instead? Do you really need to get drunk every Friday night and have nothing to show for it but a splitting headache on Saturday morning? Chances are you don't, but people will slack off and play the Real Life card when it suits them. They will turn up when they feel like it and, when the team goes nowhere, they'll just leave and hope to latch onto someone else who'll carry them through the content.

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Well RL trumps the game no matter the reason or the importance, even if I'm playing if my best friend calls and says hey want to go do something I will drop the game in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Well RL trumps the game no matter the reason or the importance, even if I'm playing if my best friend calls and says hey want to go do something I will drop the game in a heartbeat.

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So like we're all in T13 and on phase 4, Bahamut is at 15% and your friend calls. Do you run to wall, die and leave raid then log off immediately, or do you finish the clear? Cuz what I find with the "RL trumps game" mentality is that people often don't know that there are OTHER people playing the game with them too. So before decisions like this are made, at least consider if it's a good time to leave or not... A boss at 15% isn't a good time. (Seriously I've seen this happen before >_> )

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Lag is the fallback excuse in 95% of cases when someone has failed to react in time to a mechanic. It's the actual reason the other 5% of times unless your internet currently consists of two cups tied together with string.

PS: I live in the EU and I can count the times I've actually had lag issues without having to resort to my toes.

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Yeah, that's bullocks. I've seen lag hit many people and not just me. When I see someone get hit with landslide, and they fly in a different direction, that's lag. And it happens. Alot.

Lag happens, and it makes some fights near impossible. Titan and T5 is a good example of fights where the fight becomes more of a latency check rather than a skill check. Just don't tell me it doesn't happen, because it happens all the time.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

So like we're all in T13 and on phase 4, Bahamut is at 15% and your friend calls. Do you run to wall, die and leave raid then log off immediately, or do you finish the clear? Cuz what I find with the "RL trumps game" mentality is that people often don't know that there are OTHER people playing the game with them too. So before decisions like this are made, at least consider if it's a good time to leave or not... A boss at 15% isn't a good time. (Seriously I've seen this happen before >_> )

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No I'm not going to just turn off the game and leave but I will tell the party that I'm going to head out, but anyways I don't do coil so easily able to get someone to replace me doing something like farming a primal for a pony.

I think one of many issues comparing this would be time zone and like a single culture connection vs.. whatever the NA/EU is. Particularly time zone, I could group with people I don't really care about or do stupid things to my RL schedule to meet some other time zones but I can imagine how entirely convenient it would be to always play with people on your time frame. Other issues could include desires and data corruption like those who don't care/roleplay/extras/RMT characters that mess up the stats - I think with the current information you can't really get much accuracy on reasons why coil stats are as they are.

At least personally, it boils down to ability vs desire and while I know I can (used to raid seriously in other MMOs) I just don't like what it does to my RL and I found just taking things at my own pace is enjoyable in and out of game.

Loving the mass generalization in this thread though. "Culture is lazy, I can tell from video games" a form entertainment that most people outside of games view as lazy (which would be another generalization ^_^). Awesome.. lol

All these numbers prove is that potentially, keyword being "potentially" here, that the raiding crowd is in the minority both in NA and JP servers. Either people don't want to raid (and from personal experience in other games, I don't see the fun in it, personally), or as others have pointed out, the community has a challenging enough time communicating that clears are just hard to get. Sure the JP servers have higher numbers, but that's still pretty abysmal when you compare them to the entire population of said servers.

Don't see why any of this information is embarrassing. It is what it is. What good does competing against other servers you may not communicate with do for you other than bragging rights? Now if servers were to get server-wide perks or prizes for raiding clears, then this may be a completely different matter. But as it stands, there's literally nothing to get worked up over, imo.

Last night I df 5 WoD, 3 of them I got dc because of my connection issue and it takes me about 10 mins to log in back. They not kick me even once, 1st dc I log in back at Cerberus middle fight, 2nd log in back at Cloud of Darkness before the fight & 3rd one I'm dead at last boss room alone because fight already end and everyone leave already. I believe they will kick me out if in NA/EU.

That is their culture, we will vote abandon if wipe more than 3 times.

Speaking for myself, the reasons I haven't cleared FCoB are:

1) Gear (i.e. incentives). Secondary stats aren't that important so even if Coil gear is technically BiS, tome gear is plenty good enough and it's super easy to get. Plus Coil gear is BiS for such an incredibly short period of time and might not even drop if you do get a clear. Simply put, too much work, not enough reward.

2) Time. I want to enjoy all aspects of the game: crafting, gathering, farming ponies, triple triad, chocobo racing, helping others. Learning Coil and finding a group, sticking to a static schedule, etc. just takes too much time. I get that there are some players craving difficult content but unfortunately it just takes too much time to clear that content when it's relevant.

3) The Exclusivity of Statics. With a static you're stuck playing with 7 other players. I've gotten left out before and it's a crappy feeling to have. If you start your own static, then you're making others feel that way also. I like playing with all the people in my FC, not just the most hardcore, elite crowd.

4) The Attitude of the Community. It's frustrating when clearing a piece of content matters to you (so you can get your precious gear) and others are holding you back. I think we've all experienced this, even in non-Coil content. It can breed a kind of mentality where you start to see others as just a means to an end which in turn leads to lots of hostility. When my partner first started, another player told her to delete herself. I've seen players tell others to commit suicide, quit playing, die in a fire, get cancer, and so on. Learning takes time and some people take longer to learn than others. This is only my 2nd MMO, FFXI was my first, and the fights in FFXIV are nothing like the fights in FFXI. Yet, in the beginning, very few people were patient with me. I had trouble with Qarn HM, Garuda normal, and Titan normal. Now I can clear all the EX primals with ease and I've made it to T9 in Coil. I'm sure I'll clear the rest of Coil as well, but I'd rather tackle it after most of the players who take the game too seriously move on.

In summary, if SE wants a player like me to challenge difficult content they should:

- make raid gear better than tome gear and for a longer period of time
- make it loot lockout rather than content lockout, so I can play whenever and with whoever I want
- ease content difficulty, especially mechanics that insta-kill the party (i.e. have more fights like Ramuh EX where a death or two is recoverable)

And I totally get if SE doesn't want players like me to do Coil for the first 6 months after it's released. Server-firsts matter to some people and rewards should have a certain degree of exclusivity so they feel special to the players that earn them. I just mention these things because there are a lot of things SE can do to get more people into raiding. It's not like it's a big mystery why some players don't do Coil:

Some of us are bad, some of us can't find groups, and some of us think the cost/reward ratio is off. However, it's important to remember that we're all paying to have fun.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

it's important to remember that we're all paying to have fun.

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Fights in Dark Souls are challenging and fun. Coils are just not fun, they are a chore.

Extreme Modes are hard, and fun. However they have literally no loot.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/230435-More-interesting-loot-please%21-Here-are-some-ideas%21

Most of the serious raiders in my FC that have cleared T13 have their own static outside of the FC, tbh. The rest of us, who formed the group in the beginning, are more casual and have only just cleared T9 (and Titan and Ifrit EX not that long ago). We're going to work on FCoB but honestly it's not a huge priority for us. We do a lot of just casual stuff like running the towers, doing trials for Triple Triad cards, and farming for ponies.

I just set up a PF earlier this night to try and clear T10 with the Echo buffs now and I could only get 5 other players to join my party and sometimes some would just leave... and the last 3 spots were always Healer and 2 Tanks.

So we que in DF and surprisingly within 10 minutes we get it. After getting to the boss and some "new" Tank called Kant for short we manage to get through the boss pretty easily until we got to the Final Phase again where the TETHER move screws us up once again. I have no idea why, but people seem to forget what to do on this move.

I got the tether line, moved behind the boss and we got the soak perfectly I thought and then I noticed... we lost a Healer somehow and soon after our party falls apart and we only got the boss to 48% of its HP. Then we find out that the "new" Tank wasn't new and gotten a clear on it already and WANTED to troll and laughed before leaving the party and then everyone bloody leaves.

I went away cause I needed to use the restroom, but coming back to only MYSELF left and I quite peeved.

I didn't plan on leaving until we cleared no matter how many times we fall, but I can never find people willing to do a clear party with me on T10 as my FC is either busy on T11 or T13 or I can never find people interest in doing this with me. I want to clear FCoB for the story, but I can't even do THAT because other people just don't feel like doing it or I can't find people to do it.

I'm on Malboro which seems like less than 1% of people have cleared FCoB and it's sadden I can't even complete this because other people won't help me out. I know the fight, but something always trips us up, I've gotten the boss to 14% and 1% before the nerf but I can't do it because the lack of people willing to do it.

It's frustrating really, I'm not a "Hardcore" or "Raider" person, but dammit I want to clear FCoB so I'm up to date finishing everything and got the complete story of the game. Most if not all of my "static" raid people are already gone... so it's tough to find a group a times.

I mean, stunts like these make me not want to do Coils anymore even to try to clear it. It's insulting to people who want to clear it but you got guys like these trolling them.

why is it embarassing?? every single player has preferences over what they like and dislike

personally i havent touched ex primals- cause only thing that makes them farmable is the ponies.. if each primal dropped a different n unique mount then for sure id farm them.. but since they are exactly the same mount with just a skin change no interest for me

havent touched coil cause - no time looking for/making a static to learn/practise on so i just avoid it since when i do get time to play id rather do somethin effiecient instead of sittin around for hours spamming shout for teams

After raiding hardcore (literally, hardcore. 8 hours a day 6 days a week) for 6 years in WoW, I don't have the energy or level of care to do a static in XIV. If I was younger and hadn't burned myself out in that game, I might care more about it. But I just don't. I play this game for other reasons than to be the 'best' at coil.

Are the numbers calculated from achievements? If so it doesn't take into account those who block access to their achievements which would skew the numbers off for a start.

If not achievements, how are the numbers calculated?

XIVpads cannot take achievements from those who have blocked access.

Example, from achievements page for me on XIVpads


No Achievements!

Achievements are parsed and updated seperately from character data. It could take a while but hopefully not too long! If you are eager to see your achievements, click the "Update" button and follow the instructions

Alternatively, this character may have their achievements private, which means they will never show up! /cry

Bolded the important part.

If thats the case, JP may just be more open with their achievement page on Lodestone in comparison.

That kind of goes against human logic and understanding though, normally a person who actually did it would wanna turn them on. The people who don't even care about it wouldn't know, or wouldn't even bother turning them off.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

That kind of goes against human logic and understanding though, normally a person who actually did it would wanna turn them on. The people who don't even care about it wouldn't know, or wouldn't even bother turning them off.

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Nope, it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Nope, it doesn't.

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Let me explain.

People who do the stuff, probably do it to be special and unique. They wear their gear and achievements to show off. They would probably never turn off their achievements. That would be rather stupid and against human logic. They do it for that reason, so why would they do it otherwise?

The people who don't do it, don't care about the achievements in the first place (me) and wouldn't even bother turning them off. I don't even know how! I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

If not achievements, how are the numbers calculated?

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It is my understanding that these numbers are calculated through the number of characters that have obtained the louisoix minion, which cannot be hidden on the lodestone.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Let me explain.

People who do the stuff, probably do it to be special and unique. They wear their gear and achievements to show off. They would probably never turn off their achievements. That would be rather stupid and against human logic. They do it for that reason, so why would they do it otherwise?

The people who don't do it, don't care about the achievements in the first place (me) and wouldn't even bother turning them off. I don't even know how! I don't care.

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I don't have my achievements turned on. Also I wear the gear because some of it's my BiS...

What I do use is the title because it's awesome.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

It is my understanding that these numbers are calculated through the number of characters that have obtained the louisoix minion, which cannot be hidden on the lodestone.

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Don't you have to talk to an NPC to get that minion?

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Don't you have to talk to an NPC to get that minion?

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Probably, but, if you are going to go through the whole questline, AND beat T13 for it, you are nearly 100% likely going to turn in the quest.

although, you are right, there may be a small number of FcoB people that never go to old gridania to get the minion. so, these numbers may be slightly inaccurate, but I would estimate it to be likely within 10%

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Well RL trumps the game no matter the reason or the importance, even if I'm playing if my best friend calls and says hey want to go do something I will drop the game in a heartbeat.

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Thanks for wasting 7 other people's time because of selfishness. gg.

That's another issue with this game. People being inconsiderate of others because they consider other players as lesser beings and treat them as such. It's another example of the "Me Me Me" culture that's so rampant in the West.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Well RL trumps the game no matter the reason or the importance, even if I'm playing if my best friend calls and says hey want to go do something I will drop the game in a heartbeat.

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The game is RL in the sense that you are no longer just playing a game, you are dealing with 7 other people and their TIME. It is very rude to continue to waste people's time. Many of them set aside adequate time in advance and to just throw that in their face because "RL >GAEM" is selfish. If you can't commit, don't waste people's time.

People that do that are obviously not meant for statics and such, which is fine. I always give people 3 absences then I politely tell them this static is not for them and it is simply not working.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Well RL trumps the game no matter the reason or the importance, even if I'm playing if my best friend calls and says hey want to go do something I will drop the game in a heartbeat.

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A static definitely requires a time commitment, and randomly deciding to not show up doesn't really go over well with the other seven members of the party. My static had issues with this when we first started into SCoB, and we put up with it for awhile because the people were good players (when they were around) and were friends. In the end it was only hindering our progress so we replaced them. Now my static has a strict attendance policy (though we are more than reasonable in allowing for RL things), and we all respect each other's time enough to adhere to it.

If you can't (or aren't willing to) commit to a set time, then your progress will be seriously hindered. I'm not saying that pugs can't clear, but it's definitely much harder to do when your party is a revolving door rather than a set group.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

although, you are right, there may be a small number of FcoB people that never go to old gridania to get the minion. so, these numbers may be slightly inaccurate, but I would estimate it to be likely within 10%

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Two people in my static have been too lazy to go get the minion. xD

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Thanks for wasting 7 other people's time because of selfishness. gg.

That's another issue with this game. People being inconsiderate of others because they consider other players as lesser beings and treat them as such. It's another example of the "Me Me Me" culture that's so rampant in the West.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

... you are dealing with 7 other people and their TIME. It is very rude to continue to waste people's time. Many of them set aside adequate time in advance and to just throw that in their face because "RL >GAEM" is selfish.

People that do that are obviously not meant for statics and such, which is fine. I always give people 3 absences then I politely tell them this static is not for them and it is simply not working.

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If all you read my other posts too I don't do coil or statics., so no one wasting time for me cause I have asked no one to set time aside for me. So take your "your wasting other peoples time" and shove it.