Gold Saucer outfits, gender locked?

How is it cross dressing if I'm a female playing a female character that just doesn't like the bunny outfit and would like my option to be a costume from another female FF character?

Guys, they will adds new cards to the Triple Triad. So, they will for sure adds new outfits for the Gold Saucer.

They know how peoples are feeling about the gender locked gear, and I think they will fix it in the near future.

For now, just enjoy "only" the Triple Triad, the chocobo race and the Golden Saucer.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

This is just delicious. You people asked for this by choosing female characters in a Japanese developed game, and got the JP perspective on gender roles.

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That's the thing. If they want to offer this game on a global scale, then they need to keep a global audience in mind. If they do something as blatantly sexist as "men get this badass FF character's outfit that's a throwback to series history, girls get this cute generic bunny gear," then any backlash over that decision is well-earned even if it is in keeping with their own values, because what they're offering to their audience conflicts with that audience's values.

i just wish they would hurry up and give us an official date for it.. been waiting for gold saucer for months :(

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

i just wish they would hurry up and give us an official date for it.. been waiting for gold saucer for months :(

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Isn't it the 24th?
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...h_251_release/

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Originally Posted by Teia

That's the thing. If they want to offer this game on a global scale, then they need to keep a global audience in mind. If they do something as blatantly sexist as "men get this badass FF character's outfit that's a throwback to series history, girls get this cute generic bunny gear," then any backlash over that decision is well-earned even if it is in keeping with their own values, because what they're offering to their audience conflicts with that audience's values.

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I think it's safe to say that at the beginning of the franchise there were almost no women playing FF.
Look. If you check the general discussion forum you'll see there are a lot of complaints/ideas. SE is doing the best they can but they can't please everyone. I'm sure there are great aspects of the game that keep you playing.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

i just wish they would hurry up and give us an official date for it.. been waiting for gold saucer for months :(

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We've known for a few weeks now. It's the 24th.

i thought the 24th was just speculation ??

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Originally Posted by MrKweh

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What does the initial audience of Final Fantasy have to do with anything?

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Originally Posted by MrKweh

SE is doing the best they can but they can't please everyone.

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I have to wonder who they're "pleasing" with this gear dichotomy. Serious question, who would be pissed off if the gear was gender-neutral? Why is limiting player choice worth shallow, perfunctory apologism that doesn't actually say anything and winds up just sounding like marketing speak?

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Originally Posted by Teia

I have to wonder who they're "pleasing" with this gear dichotomy. Serious question, who would be pissed off if the gear was gender-neutral? Why is limiting player choice worth shallow, perfunctory apologism that doesn't actually say anything and winds up just sounding like marketing speak?

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players with male characters would complain again not to have both outfits because SE doesn't seem to be willing to give all the outfits to everyone. ( Although we got the spring skirt )

Reread my question. I didn't specify that only one of the two sets would be gender-neutral.

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Originally Posted by lololink

players with male characters would complain again not to have both outfits because SE doesn't seem to be willing to give all the outfits to everyone. ( Although we got the spring skirt )

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I'm pretty sure nobody would complain more about getting both choices than about being limited to one. That male characters should have as many skimpy sexy outfits as female characters do is just as important as that female characters should have as many nice outfits as males do. Leaving either one mis-matched between the genders leaves the sexism in place.

If SE only wants to create one new outfit for each gender, then they should both have similar outfits. If they want to create two highly different types of outfits, then both genders need one of each type. That could be either a matter of offering the same outfits to both genders or different but equivalent ones. The current offer, on the other hand, is not in the least bit equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Teia

I have to wonder who they're "pleasing" with this gear dichotomy. Serious question, who would be pissed off if the gear was gender-neutral? Why is limiting player choice worth shallow, perfunctory apologism that doesn't actually say anything and winds up just sounding like marketing speak?

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....dear lord.
I'm cool with the new outfits. the gender lock is really not that big of a deal to me. It's not catastrophic and I think GS will have plenty of other entertaining items besides just those outfits alone. I hope you'll be able to enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by MrKweh

....dear lord.
I'm cool with the new outfits. the gender lock is really not that big of a deal to me. It's not catastrophic and I think GS will have plenty of other entertaining items besides just those outfits alone. I hope you'll be able to enjoy them.

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'It's not a big deal to me' -- because you get the objectively more detailed outfit. Try to understand how people playing female characters might feel.

I don't understand why these would be gender locked. :confused:

Females can wear the best man suits in the game already. As for the bunny outfits for guys, it isn't as though they would have to be exactly the same for both genders; just look at the swimwear we have. And it isn't as though skimpy outfits designed for sex appeal are exclusively for females, right?

If the outfits are indeed gender locked I will find it disappointing, and also very sexist. I have come to expect better from SE in this regard.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

'It's not a big deal to me' -- because you get the objectively more detailed outfit. Try to understand how people playing female characters might feel.

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-Sigh-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctXJ8Hyf97c

Female avatars get more attention than you think. Why else do a lot of men like to play as one?

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Originally Posted by Mandze

This x1000. I am deeply appreciative of the fact that this game 1.) allows me to design a character who looks like a real woman (so grateful for the boob and muscle sliders), and 2.) at least has options for gear that looks like armor that would actually protect her in a fight. When they do stuff like this that pigeon-holes females into the role of subservient eye candy, it is really disappointing, and it sends the message that they don't really GET it, or maybe just don't care.

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Originally Posted by Mandze

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Originally Posted by Mandze

... giving male characters an actually cool outfit based on a real character when making the female characters look like unnamed sex toys is not cool.

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They barely have clothes on and look like Playboy bunnies. If that isn't meant to be sexually titillating, I don't know what it is meant to be.

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I am 100% with you...
This female outfit just look like those ones in sex-shops in real life seriously... what the...? why those kind of outfits in a game... again?
Don't we have enough of those kind of outfits already? ... !
I understand that some may like it... for fun... but please give us A CHOICE !!!!

SE, you already said that you didnt want each class to be able to glamor others class because "we wouldnt be able to recognize them" but well, we can fight in underwear and swimsuits, is this even logical...?

Everytime I've got a new set ingame I have to glamor some part to make it decent to look at...

What is starting to bother me is people mostly mentioning that the problem is female char not having access to the male outfit...
If any changes are to be made I sure hope it's not to only make Setzer's outfit gender neutral... I can understand that the bunny outfit looks nothing compared to the male one (and i'm actually kind of happy that we get the 'good' one for once) but if it's to give yet again more glamour choices to female characters then it would keep being the same as always and achieve nothing.

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Originally Posted by MrKweh

-Sigh-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctXJ8Hyf97c

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So you're trying to make your point with a video about games that are extremely egregious about sexism in MMO equipment, an area where FF14 is usually much better than the rest, as if FF14 is anywhere near that bad? Or that players shouldn't expect SE to maintain that standard? You're not putting any real thought at all into your arguments, and it's showing, because your arguments either sound like "as long as FF14 has slightly more positive traits than negative traits, you'll keep playing it, and that excuses SE's bad decisions" or "FF14 should have blatant sexism because these other games also do."

Fact of the matter is both arguments flat-up don't work in the slightest, because they're ill-conceived and shortsighted apologism rather than actually logical arguments.

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Originally Posted by Fleur

As for the bunny outfits for guys, it isn't as though they would have to be exactly the same for both genders; just look at the swimwear we have.

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And before someone comments that "the swimsuits are different equipment items for boys and girls!", take the Eerie Tights instead. It's the same item: On guys it's a pair of tights as the name indicates, but on gals it has a skirt. And the hempen set (chemise/undershirt etc) look different on different races even though it's the same item. So even if the outfit turns out to be just a single set of items, they've already demonstrated that they can make it look differently on different people.

I do hope they make both costumes gender neutral eventually (in a hotfix if they can't get it in before the patch), but I must admit that I'm chuckling a bit at this after anyone that complained about the petite female Au Ra and the lack of diverse body frames pretty much got laughed/chased off the forums. Has anyone visited the JP forums to gauge the general mood/outrage on the situation over there?

I want my male bunny costume asap or at least the ears.

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Originally Posted by SekhmetM

Great.

Men get to cosplay one of my favorite FFVI characters and girls are made to wear bunny suits and try to look sexy.

Great.

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Guys get yet another long coat and girls get to wear a cute bunny suit and look sexy.

Great.

For real though gender locking these outfits is stupid. I want to be able to dress my guy as an adorable bunny/use the bunny pieces in Seifuku, and lots of girls want their characters to dress in a recognizable outfit/like the cool style of the setzer items and would like to incorporate pieces of it into their glamours.

And for you people of either gender who don't want the outfit that would be locked for you, so "lol who cares about genderlocking? Herp derp"-please get over yourselves. Just because it isn't important to you doesn't mean it isn't important.

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Originally Posted by Teia

Fact of the matter is both arguments flat-up don't work in the slightest, because they're ill-conceived and shortsighted apologism rather than actually logical arguments.

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Teia,

Apparently you feel strongly about this. Good on you. I've opted out playing "logical" with you because deeming what is logical is a subjective thing. I can play your game and do real research, use "money vocabulary" to make my argument sound, and put out something of more credibility or just sit back and allow you to give material to me.

The funny thing about consumers is that even though these businesses "make bad decision" you continue to entrust them with your money. Obviously there is some good to what SE has to offer. The game has been out for a little more than a year. I'm sure there will be better content in the future. I'm sorry that you don't agree with some of my lackadaisical arguments, but it's whatever. The game will still be great regardless of what the fashion police has to say.

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Originally Posted by MrKweh

I've opted out playing "logical" with you because deeming what is logical is a subjective thing.

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Logic is a very well-defined thing. If you're unfamiliar with the concept, you'd do well to study it, because it's a very useful thing to use when approaching the world. Plus it allows one's arguments to hold much more weight than they otherwise would, without falling into things like false equivocation or relative privation. It would also help you to hold a broader world view and understand that your lack of caring does not mean others shouldn't care about something, which is something you seem to be struggling with quite a bit. Perhaps that might just be a willful lack of empathy, though.

You bring up a decent point Nozomi, but the difference between what you want, and what the devs are trying to not totally shatter immersion with, aren't the same.

The FFXIII items are pretty bad, but at least they're gender-specific. Swimsuits are right, wedding clothing is fine(Best Man's is a bit odd, yet acceptable for females), and most of the other gear in the game is fine.

Setzer is a wealthy, intelligent, confident ladies man that wears his clothes as a sign of his success and skill. Seeing a catgirl run around with it would be nothing short of disgusting.

Of course, if there's a female gambler/entertainer character similar to Setzer, that also has a unique outfit, that would be acceptable for females instead of the bunnysuit option, but as we've seen, in the devs eyes, there isn't.

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Originally Posted by Teia

Plus it allows one's arguments to hold much more weight than they otherwise would, without falling into things like false equivocation or relative privation. It would also help you to hold a broader world view and understand that your lack of caring does not mean others shouldn't care about something, which is something you seem to be struggling with quite a bit. Perhaps that might just be a willful lack of empathy, though.

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I HAS PLENTY OF EMPATHY THANK YOU -hugs Teia-There! May I am unfamiliar with logic....maybe I'm not. What I am familiar with is that I <3 you man/woman behind Teia username. Your passion on the topic has made my day. But I warn you that you'll need to gather a little bit more data before you come to a hopefully rational conclusion about the kind of person I am. I could be the next best thing since yoga pants. :D

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Setzer is a wealthy, intelligent, confident ladies man that wears his clothes as a sign of his success and skill. Seeing a catgirl run around with it would be nothing short of disgusting.

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Disgusting? Wut? Why or how is it disgusting? That is probably one of the most bizarre comments I've seen so far coming out of this.

Man, I hope they allow women to wear it just to disgust you now.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

Man, I hope they allow women to wear it just to disgust you now.

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While I can't say I agree with Ippiki, spite is just about the most childish thing ever.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Setzer is a wealthy, intelligent, confident ladies man that wears his clothes as a sign of his success and skill. Seeing a catgirl run around with it would be nothing short of disgusting.

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So a catgirl, or any female character, for that matter, can't be a wealthy, intelligent, attractive person that wears her clothes as a sign of her success and skill?

You must really hate Admiral Merlwyb, actual-lore-character-in-FFXIV, who is all of those things.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

And the hempen set (chemise/undershirt etc) look different on different races even though it's the same item.

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This. Although I like my highlander topless (cuz muscle lol), I kinda feel weird using this. This just makes my character "almost" into BDSM thingy with those string around his chest. Is there no normal tank tops for this race?

On topic, it would be nice if SE can put bunny head to unisex because I know any gender and any race like this stuff more than the outfit IMO :)

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Originally Posted by Dyne_Fellpool

While I can't say I agree with Ippiki, spite is just about the most childish thing ever.

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I agree, we must treat misogyny with the respect it deserves.

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Originally Posted by Eej

I agree, we must treat misogyny with the respect it deserves.

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Because childishness is an acceptable solution right?
(it's not.)

Also, fighting disrespect with disrespect is counter-productive. Disrespect is like hatred in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

A couple crossdressers whining about costumes won't show up as even the smallest blip in their stock portfolio.

Also, I'm not the most devoted FF scholar, are there ANY female characters closely associated with the casino/entertainment industry similar to Setzer, and thus worthy of representation?

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Yuna is a singer in X-2, does that count enough for "entertainment industry"? http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...tasy/00103.jpg

that being said, I'm kinda disappointed the outfits are like this, but can't say I'm wildly surprised, I knew they'd do something that would make me not all that interested in the Gold Saucer in some way or another (Figured it'd be gender-locked costumes, or a cash shop method to get ahead there). I might pop into the saucer to check it out, but I'll have zero interest in collecting the costume now, and won't be spending my time doing so now

Krr, you're misinterpreting.

A man wearing a Setzer's costume is fine, because a large part of what the costume represents is closely entwined with the subtleties of his sexuality, and the actions/motives he has related to that.

A catgirl or any female wearing the same outfit would come off as a mockery of the same due to the same sexuality not being present. I've posted before, if there's a female equivalent to Setzer in the FF universe, her outfit would suffice, but to the devs, that's not the case. There's no misogyny here, if females get a classy gambler outfit, sweet, but at the cost of cheapening an established character? No thanks.

what, you mean a game made by men unabashedly panders to a male audience? wow woah

also just saying, only providing playboy bunny costumes for female characters is misogynistic. dance around it all you want, fellas

why do i play video games

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Originally Posted by dioxideUniversa

misogynistic

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Misogynistic means you hate or strongly distrust women. It doesn't mean you are just insensitive to gender equality.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

A man wearing a Setzer's costume is fine, because a large part of what the costume represents is closely entwined with the subtleties of his sexuality, and the actions/motives he has related to that.

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I am a roleplayer. My character is a nerdy, scrawny scientist who is borderline asexual. He loves his technology more than anything. Should I not be allowed to wear my costume since my male character differs heavily from Setzer's ideology?

Perhaps we should start having personality screenings to see what gear we should and should not be allowed to wear based on our character's personality.


Ridiculous, yes? So... why could a female character not wear it?

Who is Setzer ?

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

Yuna is a singer in X-2, does that count enough for "entertainment industry"?

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That's actually a pretty good outfit, weird how the devs didn't choose that for females, but oh well.

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Originally Posted by Titor

I am a roleplayer.

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That's not an immediately visually apparent, let alone binary fact. Your character is the same gender as Setzer, therefore capable of possessing the same sexuality as him(from reading your post, that's a pretty big stretch, but regardless), and the outfit, and character represented, is not disrespected.

Give females their own thing instead of making a very masculine character/outfit into a unisex thing, is my main point. If you want bunny outfits on males, that's your own taste, but wanting something to be copy-pasted just to fit your choices is a little much.