Locked out of the Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

for a lot of players this will not strengthen the sense of comradeship, it will instead cause a rift that will piss off a lot of them.

this punishment system as is was not well thought out. it should punish individual players ONLY

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It's more like:

For every person that gets pissed off for a 'legit reason', it hinders the trolls and in progress fishing, that wastes everyone's time, by the way, much more. The needs of many and all that.

What I've learned is that there were a LOT of people who withdrew prior to this patch and didn't see any problems with doing it repeatedly. Y'all are the reason this was put in place, so I'm not surprised that you're howling over it.

I think I've had a queue "accident" once since I started at launch. I don't DF up unless I am clear for the next hour.

The DF estimate problem brings up a good point, though. The "estimate" should not be an average of all the classes, but specifically for the class you're on. The wait for a tank is almost always going to be nil. The wait for a healer will be a couple minutes at most. The wait for a DPS, though, might be significantly longer.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

What I've learned is that there were a LOT of people who withdrew prior to this patch and didn't see any problems with doing it repeatedly. Y'all are the reason this was put in place, so I'm not surprised that you're howling over it.

I think I've had a queue "accident" once since I started at launch. I don't DF up unless I am clear for the next hour.

The DF estimate problem brings up a good point, though. The "estimate" should not be an average of all the classes, but specifically for the class you're on. The wait for a tank is almost always going to be nil. The wait for a healer will be a couple minutes at most. The wait for a DPS, though, might be significantly longer.

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Sounds like an eminently reasonable idea to me.. although as a diehard MNK DPS i've given up on dungeons until after the whole NIN thing blows over a lil' bit xD

If someone leaves and you get penalized that is pretty ghetto

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Originally Posted by Granyala

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Three strikes. Three. In a day. That you couldn't drop what you're doing and swap classes in 45 seconds.

When I'm in DF that's what's important. It's priority. Other things are dropped when it pops. My first class was DPS so I've learned that if you queue then that's what you're doing. Having both a Tank and Healer has shown me that waiting more than a couple minutes is agony for those roles; a 30 minute penalty, the same as leaving a dungeon, seems severe from that angle but is pretty normal for a DPS. I've seen that all three roles suffered from players withdrawing at the last minute but since these rules were added people report it being much less of a problem. It's working.

If you don't have the time to wait, and run, something through the DF then don't enter it. If people in your group are unreliable and busy then don't invite them. If you want to risk it then you risk getting a strike and possibly a half-hour lock-out. Seems fair.

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Originally Posted by Darkoon

In order to create a better community, we must avoid the community. GENIUS!

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In order to create a better community, we must exile the malicious parts of it. Change your attitude and stop thinking the world is out to hold your hand. If someone's consistently preventing you from playing the game by withdrawing from dungeons, they're clearly not interested in doing dungeons. Don't group with them. Yes. It really, really is that simple. It is.

Now either you withdrew twice before and the party member was your third and final or that same party member withdrew three times on you. Either way, what are you going to do about it?

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Originally Posted by Fytayn

I've seen that all three roles suffered from players withdrawing at the last minute...

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No you didn't, all three roles haven't "suffered" because some players withdrew. They "suffered" because they withdrew over and over and over and over again. That was the problem, not a random withdraw or 2 every now and again.

I would gladly suffer 100 random withdrawls instead of the time where I get hit by a 30min penalty a month or two from now. They can come up with a better solution. Particularly for parties because party withdrawls were a non issue (cannot queue in progress in a party, and you can queue as an alliance so no fishing for friends).

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Originally Posted by IzumiYuki

Is there any reason why the entire party has to be affected by the doings of a single player?

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If you were immune when on a party, a group of three will be able to "fishing" 6 times before the lock occours.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

If you were immune when on a party, a group of three will be able to "fishing" 6 times before the lock occours.

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what would you fish for in a party? you can't join in progress unless you're solo

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

what would you fish for in a party? you can't join in progress unless you're solo

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I wonder too, but it seems people does that. Look at all the complains about withdraws in party...

love it, it works, leave it.

if you are not ready don't que, if you dont trust or talk to the ppl in your pt first then thats your fault for not communicating or quing with the wrong ppl.

this has prevented many many ppl from que fishing for in progress while solo as well and i like the new feature.

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Originally Posted by Fytayn

When I'm in DF that's what's important. It's priority. Other things are dropped when it pops.

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Ofc I try, but it happens that 45s isn't enough.
Also, esp as a DPS when I have to wait up to 90 minutes, a simple bathroom break can be enough to miss it.

I just can't believe that people think this punishment system is necessary. It is not.
Not even in WoW (according to this forum the game with THE most immature and troll infested community).

On top of that there are far more elegant solutions that mitigate or completely avoid any negative side effects.
If you are a proper developer, your job would be not just to come up with A solution, but with the BEST solution.

Since SE doesn't want in progress fishing, the best solution would be not to give the player any information about the run until he is IN the dungeon.
If he chooses to leave, he will get his penalty accordingly.

Do away with the commencement screen completely... you queue, server assembles party, drops you in instance. Then everyone is subject to the rules of the instance.

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Originally Posted by Raist

Do away with the commencement screen completely... you queue, server assembles party, drops you in instance. Then everyone is subject to the rules of the instance.

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that sounded like a good idea, until i remembered that people could be doing other things, like crafting, or gathering. 45 seconds should be enough time for most people to finish what they are doing, unless its above 2* craft. currently loving the withdraw thing tho.

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Originally Posted by Raist

Do away with the commencement screen completely... you queue, server assembles party, drops you in instance. Then everyone is subject to the rules of the instance.

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No the commencement screen can stay. Just the information if it is an in progress run needs to be taken out.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

that sounded like a good idea, until i remembered that people could be doing other things, like crafting, or gathering. 45 seconds should be enough time for most people to finish what they are doing, unless its above 2* craft. currently loving the withdraw thing tho.

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That's a big point of frustration with the current system though. You wait forever and a day to see commencement screen, and then you sit there and go through commencement after commencement waiting on that cooldown, just to get thrown back into the queue again. They either need to tweak the commencement screen to be more efficient, or find ways around it's abuse/neglect as it functions now.

They could capture the different job exception and put them on a lower priority so that people on the proper job shoot right in. When it gets to the ones on different jobs, they get a prompt to change jobs and commit--when that timer expires, they get dropped from DF completely (just like it does if you join party or call a choco). That way the DF can clear faster with people that are actually more likely to be ready to go, and those that aren't as committed to the selected duty are put into a lower priority queue. People who are actually ready to go can just shoot in, and it may naturally discourage people from distracted queuing or intentionally trolling/fishing.

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Originally Posted by Raist

That's a big point of frustration with the current system though. You wait forever and a day to see commencement screen, and then you sit there and go through commencement after commencement waiting on that cooldown, just to get thrown back into the queue again.

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It's a non issue for 4 man & 8man dungeons.
As for the 24man raids: Assemble everyone that accepted and then fill up the raid with the 2-3 persons that didn't accept.

The People that are already in can start clearing trash. By the time they reach the first boss the raid will be full.
WoW does that for it's LFRs and it works like a charm.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

It's a non issue for 4 man & 8man dungeons.
As for the 24man raids: Assemble everyone that accepted and then fill up the raid with the 2-3 persons that didn't accept.

The People that are already in can start clearing trash. By the time they reach the first boss the raid will be full.
WoW does that for it's LFRs and it works like a charm.

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Unless the party that has already started has at least a tank and a healer in every alliance, you're not going to clear those trash mobs since they're designed to be fought with a full alliance.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

This feature needs to stay, if anything it needs to be a bit more strict than it already is. It's done much more good than it has harm.

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But why? withdrawing was not that common except when you tryed to que in tower, if anything this opens new way to troll/screw others gameplay. Or maybe i didnt ecounter it much because i always que up as an tank.

I'm loving this feature. No more instant queues turning into a 30 min queue cause some asshat missed or withdrew his queue popup.

This is like a soap drama here XD So funny and it's like next time on "Locked out of the Duty Finder" Get over it. You complain about people queing then withdrawing SE tries to fix it maybe not in the best way, but at lest they listened and tried yet you still complain about it's not good enough. It's like trying to give a child and upgraded bike for their birthday, but it's not a good enough bike for them they want it to be designed especially for them. This is an MMO it's not you who's just playing the game it's thousands of people. Sometimes you're gonna get what you want sometimes you're not gonna get what you want. It's not going to be perfect for everyone it's not going to be the best game in history. I do agree on the part that the time to accept the que isn't long enough for some people and that it should be changed so it's longer, but with the new penalty for not excepting it gets rid of the trolls for the people who have waited like DPS. The way it was before if you were queing for something specifc, but only one tank ques for it they could easily troll you withdrawing then queing again at lest this way it gets rid of that problem all SE need to do is remove it for the premade full party's and leave it for the partially made party and only give the penalty to the person who didn't accept and the solo party. I'd be fine with that.

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Originally Posted by IceSpear

This is like a soap drama here XD So funny and it's like next time on "Locked out of the Duty Finder" Get over it. You complain about people queing then withdrawing SE tries to fix it maybe not in the best way, but at lest they listened and tried yet you still complain about it's not good enough. It's like trying to give a child and upgraded bike for their birthday, but it's not a good enough bike for them they want it to be designed especially for them. This is an MMO it's not you who's just playing the game it's thousands of people. Sometimes you're gonna get what you want sometimes you're not gonna get what you want. It's not going to be perfect for everyone it's not going to be the best game in history. I do agree on the part that the time to accept the que isn't long enough for some people and that it should be changed so it's longer, but with the new penalty for not excepting it gets rid of the trolls for the people who have waited like DPS. The way it was before if you were queing for something specifc, but only one tank ques for it they could easily troll you withdrawing then queing again at lest this way it gets rid of that problem all SE need to do is remove it for the premade full party's and leave it for the partially made party and only give the penalty to the person who didn't accept and the solo party. I'd be fine with that.

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So ... SE makes what you believe to be a bad decision you should just accept it or quit without providing feedback or debating the issue at all? yea...

They half assed this. Some people like it now because it's all shiny and new and they haven't gotten hit by it yet. Wonder if they change their tune a month or so from now when they get stuck with it because of a problem with a group queue or they missed a queue for extremely casual content where withdrawls were not an issue (guildhests) and are not locked out of everything.

I'm still amused people complain its not good enough but I haven't seen a better solution that could satisfy everybody here. I'm still happy with it. Not many withdrawals as they used to be.

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Originally Posted by Cedane

I'm still amused people complain its not good enough but I haven't seen a better solution that could satisfy everybody here. I'm still happy with it. Not many withdrawals as they used to be.

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an amalgamation of other ideas that have been suggested

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

The best solution is if a person withdraws from a queue, the queue does not break up the whole group and instead finds a replacement for those who timed out. Those who clicked "confirm" would not have to click it again, they would just stay with the confirmation window up. The game would only break up an existing group of people who already clicked "confirm" if it could not find an immediate replacement. Anyone who withdrew would store a list of groups they recently withdrew from and that person would not be added back into any of those same groups.

But that's more work, so it's better to identify where this was a problem. The only places I saw this were CT/ST, expert, and low level. A common theme between all 3 are that the rewards are heavily stacked at the end of the dungeon, this causes people to fish for in progress in those particular dungeons. There are a number of ways to deal with this sort of thing. One option is to just give them what they want and get them away from everyone else by adding in progress only. This way all the in progress fishers will be removed from your queues forever and will never effect you. There is concern that this would add to the queue times because all the tanks or healers would only queue for in progress. But if all the tanks and healers queue for in progress, then they're going to have to wait a long time because there's only so many in progress dungeons that will be available. They might as well just do the dungeon normally since it will be faster as they already have near instant queues. You'll also probably get more people participating due to the in progress option. Some people won't do certain content at all because the rewards are not worth the time invested (low level comes to mind), but you will likely get more tanks and healers looking for "easy" queues which will increase competition. The result is likely a negligible effect on queues in exchange for a flexible system that lets people do what they want.

You could also obscure the in progress value in the same way that CT/ST does by only displaying 0/1 no matter what the actual progress is. A problem that exists is it can be difficult to fill 0/3 in progress dungeons. You're risking joining in progress on a likely dysfunctional group that hasn't made any progress. Those fishing for in progress are looking for 2/3 or 1/3, this would prevent allowing the in progress fishers from being able to fish for those specific dungeons. This prevents that while helping 0/3 groups that need some help. If in progress only was added, I think this should also be added.

Or you could just not display the fact that a dungeon is in progress at all. Although, I would caution against this. Sometimes people will ask their FC/linkshell for help with an in progress dungeon. It's nice to be able to identify that the queue that pops up is actually in progress so you can help those who you want to help. I know some want to be able to invite friends directly to help in progress runs, but I think that's ripe for abuse (voting out your current dungeon group members because you want to invite your friends). So it's nice to have some way to link those who need help with those who want to help without the direct invite option, and I think this accomplishes that.

Even with the above you can still have people trolling the queue because they have nothing better to do. But a shorter withdraw penalty (5-15min) with a shorter reset period (1-3 hrs) would curb most trollish behavior. For the most dedicated trolls it should be easy for SE to identify people who are *constantly* withdrawing and have a GM check their behavior to put them in timeout. This is also a good idea even if you add some way of directly curbing the practice of fishing.

And lets face it, the primary offender here was CT/ST. While other categories can be subject to in progress fishing, the number of people in CT/ST can mean that players even withdrawing for "legitimate" reasons can cause a number of resets for some people. So it would be better to limit the existing 3/day > 30min penalty to just CT/ST to specifically target *that* problem. Someone who got a strike from going to the bathroom during a particularly lengthy guildhest queue (where the queue estimates are often innacurate) doesn't deserve the strike as much as someone who withdraws from an ST queue after a 30sec wait. The system and its punishments should reflect that, it currently doesn't.

Or just break up the penalty enforcement by category. Trials, 24 man raids, pvp, low/high/expert dungeons, that sort of thing. Again, it was particular categories that were problematic. Withdrawing from ST 3x within a day causes you to be locked out of ST/CT for 30min.

Finally, even WITH the current system, the group penalty should only be inflicted on the individual who withdraws. Group trolling is a made up issue. Punishing people to prevent a problem that doesn't exist is stupid. Ready checks only work when the queue starts. Sure everything works fine if the queue is instant after the ready check, but that's not always the case (had to wait 15min to help out someone do Ramuh HM for story with a partial group that had 2 tanks, for instance). Being punished for the mistakes of others is a bad idea that's only going to lead to more animosity between players and this game does NOT need that.

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There is no notification or warning alerting a person that clicking withdraw will impose a penalty. A lot of people may not be aware that a penalty will be imposed if they choose to withdraw. Without informing the user it won't have much impact. It's not like most players withdraw when queuing anyway.

Penalizing an entire group because of one person withdraws is incredibly noxious to the group and anyone else trying to queue for a duty. One person withdraws, up to six others who are ready and willing are locked out, thus requiring six more people to queue to replace them. Bad idea and blatantly unfair to the players who WANT to participate. It's too easy to forget to use /readycheck... not until it's too late. Thus these players are likely to give up altogether.

I can't say I've seen much change myself with the frequency of people withdrawing after the duty finder has popped. People still withdraw all the time.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Penalizing an entire group because of one person withdraws is incredibly noxious to the group and anyone else trying to queue for a duty. One person withdraws, up to six others who are ready and willing are locked out, thus requiring six more people to queue to replace them. Bad idea and blatantly unfair to the players who WANT to participate. It's too easy to forget to use /readycheck... not until it's too late. Thus these players are likely to give up altogether.

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You have three chances for everyone to be ready and clicking commence unless people have used up their get out of jail free cards already by withdrawing twice in 24 hours in that case why would you even queue with people like that? It's your responsibility to make sure all are present and ready before you begin and if not you only have yourselves to blame. It'll take a while for the new system to bed in and reduce withdrawals but people are already complaining so they are feeling the effects.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

You have three chances for everyone to be ready and clicking commence unless people have used up their get out of jail free cards already by withdrawing twice in 24 hours in that case why would you even queue with people like that?.

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I can think of a hundred different reasons, but the primary one would probably be that if you are on a small server, there aren't really a lot of people to queue with, and sometimes the best players have already been in 10 queues previously that day, and its easy to have a withdrawal.

yeah thanks for the duty finder penalty. i now am locked out because the group i was in withdrew three times. I wasn't party leader, nor was I the one who withdrew. But, hey, I should still get penalised for other people shouldn't I? I knew this new implementation was screwy to start with, but this is just messed up.

Been playing since the start and the only time the withraws were frequent enough to proove annoying was on raid 24 man content. Just have the panelty for raid content. Never had fishing in 4man parties really...

well its to late its here and honsetly i hope it hurts square enix and makes some people quit and makes them loes money it was stupid idea on ses part and i hope it hurts them

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Originally Posted by Darkoon

I was just locked out of the Duty Finder after a party member withdrew from the duty as soon as the duty was found.

I cannot control if another party member withdraws or not.
I should not be penalized for the actions taken by a different party member!

This feature needs to be removed at once as I am sure that I am not the only innocent victim that has been locked out of the Duty Finder by something that one cannot control!

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Two words: Ready Check! Use It....

WHY????? I understand that trolling and "phishing" the DF is a problem but I think a rather minor one. After waiting, sometimes 30 mins or longer for a group, You might just get involved in something else or just not want to go into a dungeon whenever the DF decides one is open for you. I don't think I should be penalized for going to the bathroom, or getting up to get a snack and having the DF match me at that particular time. Just to be clear, I don't phish or troll the DF but even those who do are still playing the game and still paying their monthly fee. Let people play the game the way they want to. Unless someone continually leaves a group AFTER the dungeon is open, there should be no penalty. Come on people it's a game!! Lives are not at stake here. Get a grip.

The majority of people complaining are healers and tanks. I wonder why they are complaining /sarcasm

I haven't had a single penalty since this has been implemented, in fact, I haven't even had a single strike against me. It really isn't that difficult to be ready to play the game before you register for a duty.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

I can think of a hundred different reasons, but the primary one would probably be that if you are on a small server, there aren't really a lot of people to queue with, and sometimes the best players have already been in 10 queues previously that day, and its easy to have a withdrawal.

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when using duty finder, you dont just pull from your own server. you pull from your server cluster.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

Been playing since the start and the only time the withraws were frequent enough to proove annoying was on raid 24 man content. Just have the panelty for raid content. Never had fishing in 4man parties really...

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On the flipside, I;ve seen 10-12+ withdraws back to back for EX roulette and trials, it's present in all content, it's just worse in Raid content.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

well its to late its here and honsetly i hope it hurts square enix and makes some people quit and makes them loes money it was stupid idea on ses part and i hope it hurts them

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People not being able to troll the queue will not hurt SE at all - It helped everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Wyverna

WHY????? I understand that trolling and "phishing" the DF is a problem but I think a rather minor one.

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No.

Average Wait Time: 5 minutes.
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Commence time!
Player has Withdrawn
Finally get in 22 minutes later.

Yep, "minor problem." SE didn't readjust the frontlines system to start and scale based on people who did get in if it was truly a "minor problem." Also..stop with the "penalized for going to the bathroom" - You have THREE. CHANCES if you go to the bathroom and miss it all 3 times, that is honestly not SE's problem, not to be rude or anything, but how do you go to the bathroom and get locked out when you have 3 chances?

I missed some DF once in awhile and never been punished.

If you missed 2 then you should be more careful for your next queue.

ps. I main healer, I support this punishment as it is right now.

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Originally Posted by Archadius

If you're entering something as a partial pre-made party, be it with friends or via the PF, etc... You should either know these people, or be performing ready checks before you press that button to reserve an instance. Failure to do so is at the fault of the party leader.

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Yeah because god forbid someone has to take a piss or let their dog out some time in the sometimes 20 to 40 minute wait to find a dungeon in a partial party setup.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Yeah because god forbid someone has to take a piss or let their dog out some time in the sometimes 20 to 40 minute wait to find a dungeon in a partial party setup.

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Three Strikes - People who keep saying this keep pretending it's a one withdraw then lockout. That is simply not the case.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Yeah because god forbid someone has to take a piss or let their dog out some time in the sometimes 20 to 40 minute wait to find a dungeon in a partial party setup.

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because typing "brb bio" is SOOOOOO hard :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Three Strikes - People who keep saying this keep pretending it's a one withdraw then lockout. That is simply not the case.

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Three strikes a day (for the whole party and not just a single person), and it has happened to me 3 times in the last 2 days. With friends, who cannot be bothered to sit at their computer staring at the screen in-game for 20 minute queue time waits. People tend to get thirsty or hungry or have to use the bathroom in those times. If you are defending this you are crazy.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

because typing "brb bio" is SOOOOOO hard :rolleyes:

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I'm afraid typing "brb bio" is not going to stop the server from penalizing you.