Please give us "harder" 4-man's

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Originally Posted by Evangela

4-man content shouldn't be hard.

it's easier to blame someone if the duty isn't going well. kicking abuse rates will go through the roof.

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WoW has 'Challenge Mode' for its 5mans in MoP. Granted, it wasn't a challenge, it just a locked ilvl speed run competition that encouraged use of invisibility potions etc, rather than real skill.

I would very much like to see SE add in a Mode to our 4mans that scales up the difficulty. A friend of mine hates 4mans because of how easy they are.

I feel like an upscaled difficulty for those of use who have totally outgeared 4mans would be welcomed. The rewards could be as simple as Venture coins, dyes or dyeable versions of dungeon gear not normally dyeable.
For some of us, the upscaled difficulty would be reward enough for doing it.

"Harder" duties are called expert and high-level duties. Usually, the people that say they are a walk in the park, are ones doing them in full i110.

If you are looking for challenges on those duties, you will welcome the new ilvl sync mechanic, that is supposed to make the encounter as difficult as supposed it needs to be.

The ask for level sync removal on low duties is exactly the opposite of OP's request, and it have also the issue of making out the game play the low level players who are doing that duties, because being paired with 50s one-hitting mobs, and this issue alone suffice enough to not grant the proposal.

I hope in the future, when the ilvl sync feature proven to work in duties, have it being expanded to all lv50 duties, to make all of them enjoyable for the difficult level they are supposed to be.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

The rewards could be as simple as Venture coins, dyes or dyeable versions of dungeon gear not normally dyeable.
For some of us, the upscaled difficulty would be reward enough for doing it.

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Alternatively, they could also be minor progression.

• First two-three bosses (depending on what the dungeon is) will drop four chests, one for each player. The chests will always drop four items, one being the regular dungeon equipment (but can be dyed), one crafting mat, one untradeable dye and ten Venture coins. They may also have a 30% chance at dropping ilvl115 gear.

• Final boss will be the same. Four chests, one for each player, dyeable gear, crafting mat, dye and ten venture coins, but this time, there's a 50% chance of the i115 gear dropping OR a 5% chance of i125 gear dropping.

From what the patch notes imply, the ilvl sync coming in 2.4 will sync us to i110 if we exceed that. Wanderer's Palace and Amdapor Keep will always be faceroll easy unless we decide to do them in our AF gear.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Wanderer's Palace and Amdapor Keep will always be faceroll easy unless we decide to do them naked.

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Fixed for you XD

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

"Harder" duties are called expert and high-level duties. Usually, the people that say they are a walk in the park, are ones doing them in full i110.

If you are looking for challenges on those duties, you will welcome the new ilvl sync mechanic, that is supposed to make the encounter as difficult as supposed it needs to be.
...
I hope in the future, when the ilvl sync feature proven to work in duties, have it being expanded to all lv50 duties, to make all of them enjoyable for the difficult level they are supposed to be.

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New ilvl sync in 2.4 is just making it so that players have a ceiling of i110 for most prepatch content.

ilvl and character lvl sync are lazy solutions if you want to apply them to make existing content more challenging. All you accomplish is to make players who already know the content and have gone through it dozens of times spend longer doing it. It's grindy and tedious, not truly challenging.

Almost thought the OP was looking for semi-casual encounter with that title.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

All you accomplish is to make players who already know the content and have gone through it dozens of times spend longer doing it. It's grindy and tedious, not truly challenging.

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I guess those players don't even have reasons to go there. If they go, I'm pretty sure it is not for the challenge but for something other, so no reason to complain for challenge.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

I guess those players don't even have reasons to go there. If they go, I'm pretty sure it is not for the challenge but for something other, so no reason to complain for challenge.

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They go there because the game requires it if you want the rewards (e.g. tomes, light, vanity drops, etc.).

That also doesn't mean that dungeon design can't be improved upon, so I'm not sure what point you are attempting to make.

The point is Square threw in "incentives" for high level players so that they would play with low level players and help them clear the content. Without that, no one would run the old content and the new/low leveled players would be stuck. Ergo, you can't change old content just for sake of entertaining veteran players unless you plan to make 2 versions of every single dungeon with the same low level restrictions.

Ilvl sync doesn't cut it, especially when it's so high.

I110, we're at the level & steam-rolling all the current dungeons.

Statistical difficulty only helps so much when you're only dealing with 2-3 mechanics per boss & none during trash.

It helps more when those few mechanics are challenging to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

You know, I thought the current set of expert dungeons were harder. Not Pharos harder (thank the gods) but harder. Heck, they introduced mechanics that punished the usual dungeon behavior, like if you attacked the adds of Tam-Hell's first boss, or got trigger happy and ignored the NPCs in the second boss of Stone Hell (Hell here is used to describe Hard dungeons, though it's original usage was to describe annoying dungeons). Savage Crystal Tower would be a step in the wrong direction, though, given it was never meant to be as serious as Coil to begin with.

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They weren't nearly hard enough. And that's a Filthy Casual saying that.

I think a lot of you endgame players missed everything of the point.

LOW LEVEL (or low ilevel) duties are for LOW LEVEL players. You endgame player complaining about how that duties are easy to you, are the same as a graduate student complaining about how a first grader math homeworks are easy to do.

^they already have been implemented "level 50 hard mode" versions of the low-level dungeons.

Except they're not hard.

Maybe had they not done that we wouldn't be suggesting this.

But alas.

I guess you missed the point...

Ho well, there is who says all the Coil from T1 to T9 is a joke, no wonder how much "hard" can be a duty, there will always be someone saying it is a joke. But yes you are right, I'm at fault, there are arguments I need to learn to not discuss.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

I think a lot of you endgame players missed everything of the point.

LOW LEVEL (or low ilevel) duties are for LOW LEVEL players. You endgame player complaining about how that duties are easy to you, are the same as a graduate student complaining about how a first grader math homeworks are easy to do.

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Right, which is why people want harder OPTIONS to OPTIONALLY run as an OPTION. I would absolutely love dungeons to run that weren't mind-numbingly easy even at the appropriate level. The problem is any time they add anything remotely difficult in the slightest that isn't Coil it gets nerfed immediately because people refuse to run it. Hell people even refused to run Amdapor Township when it was part of the highest dungeon DFR and that wasn't even slightly hard.

Akumu mode dungeons pls! Filled with 1 shot mechanics from even trash mobs. :3

They just need to start supporting 3 difficulties for everything.

Normal/Story > Hard > Extreme/Savage.

Normal/Story ~ leveling or story-progression purposes.

Hard ~ gear-progression or skill-improvement.

Extreme/Savage ~ gear-progression or challenge-mode.

I currently think Primal Extremes & SCOB (I would consider the Default to be "Hard" & Savage, Story is soon-to-be implemented) are tuned impeccably well for their purposes.

As well, I think Extreme/Savage Tier should have a strict ilvl sync applied for the sake of balancing around a holistic skill-play approach.

Retired HM Content should eventually have an ilvl sync applied, though incremental & not as strict (in 2.4 they're applying an ilvl 110 sync to virtually all past 50-content which I think is personally a bit too high for some of it though I appreciate it as a first-step).

I don't think the ilvl sync applied to 50-content should exceed 40 ilvl's beyond the minimum requirement.

E.g. Garuda HM is min. 52, cap it at 92 ilvl, etc.