SE Forgot to Add YouTube as a Requirement on Game Packaging/System Requirements?

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

(not that the community there was anything to brag about, but it certainly wasn't the cesspool we see in XIV today)

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You sure as hell don't forget some of the experiences when you're playing an MMO designed as an actual world and the people in it are actual inhabitants rather than us just..being there lagging up cities till people go into an instance. People always love to say 'rose colored glasses' or 'nostalgia', but I had more memorable moments in 1.x than I did in ARR honestly..and it quite honestly is due to how the community tends to be.

You may or may not run into that same person again due to server grouping, but when you do and remember them, oh boy the salt that makes the run feel that much more "let me get my item and go" A lot of times in XI I like when some raids got drawn out because i loved the location and seeing OTHER people doing their own raids within same area even if it's competition for some pop items.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Lets destroy all the history books and other such things that let us learn from those who came before us while we're at it.

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Did someone really just compare videos of a video game with the history of the real life world in terms of importance? Really? Seriously?

I... Don't... Even...

Maybe you need to take a break from gaming and see what the world is like if you feel a game holds that much importance.

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

Did someone really just compare videos of a video game with the history of the real life world in terms of importance? Really? Seriously?

I... Don't... Even...

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Her point made perfect sense though - Research is important no matter what. It's there for you, you can't play this game unless you have an internet connection, meaning you have all of the resources available to you in some fashion. No computer? Your ps3/Ps4 can browse info for the most part. Chances are you have a smartphone as well.

No PS3/PS4? You're obviously not playing the game then.

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

Did someone really just compare videos of a video game with the history of the real life world in terms of importance? Really? Seriously?

I... Don't... Even...

Maybe you need to take a break from gaming and see what the world is like if you feel a game holds that much importance.

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The point, as everyone seems to ignore, is that the person felt we should literally have all of those videos that people make to HELP people should be removed. Tools, that are created by those who came before, to help those who come after, should be REMOVED. Does it make more sense now?

So, yes, I did make the comparison. And you can tell the people who refuse to understand quite easily by the responses.

This is also the only ff that tried to follow WoW. So now people who are unfamiliar with ff's elitist gaming culture are really getting a rude awakening. It's unfortunate, and I'm not saying it's right, but it is the current truth of the elitists. They all have less patience than ever.

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Originally Posted by Dejectedbunny

The only one that seems to have some expectation of what others should be doing here is you. I doubt anyone goes into an event blind expecting that everyone else will explain the entire encounter to them. In the same vein as what you said in the above quote, it could be considered selfish that some players expect others to compile information just so they don't have to spend time giving a short explanation. Selfish is fairly subjective term. Bottom line is that DF is the public realm, when you enter the queue you do so knowing that there will be players of varying skill levels and degrees of experience. If the group you end up in is so intolerable, you always have the option to leave.

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You should get the context quite easily of what I meant since it was just a couple of posts before, that they talked about those that enter the instance and ask the others about the encounter. That to me, sounds like he have an expectation of the others teaching him.

And well, selfish might not be the best word. Had it been something like a school project, where one couldn't be bothered with reading up or researching the subject. Instead relied on the others to do it for him, what would you call him? lazy? selfish?

Well, closest analogy I could compare it to.

Anyway, my point in my first post was, why was the 3 players in the wrong and not the one that came in asking the others. It wasn't me taking sides with anyone actually, just that it's no players obligation since we aren't employed by SE to do it.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Anyway, my point in my first post was, why was the 3 players in the wrong and not the one that came in asking the others. It wasn't me taking sides with anyone actually, just that it's no players obligation since we aren't employed by SE to do it.

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And, again.. its a social game, no you dont NEED to help them, but you should WANT to help them, since in the long run it only helps you. You arent obligated, just like the other players arent obligated to keep you in the group if they dont like your name, or your class. We treat others as we hope to be treated in return.

Someone who comes into a run knowing nothing doesnt have to be lazy or selfish. Why is it so illogical that they would assume the best way to learn is to talk to and ask the people who have done it before? Which is going to teach you more? Reading a book on a topic, or working with a person who's done it for years? Talking to the person who can offer real time feedback is going to net the better end result.

I dont know about anyone else, but the feeling when I take the time to explain something to someone and they say "Thank you" is better than any drop I'll get out of any dungeon in game.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Anyway, my point in my first post was, why was the 3 players in the wrong and not the one that came in asking the others. It wasn't me taking sides with anyone actually, just that it's no players obligation since we aren't employed by SE to do it.

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Hey if all you wanna be is right here's your cookie, no one has to explain anything to anyone because everybody can Google things. Grats! You don't look ridiculous at all arguing for pages about it "not being an obligation" over a 30 seconds explanation.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

-snip-

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He has a good point though - What does make the 3 people wrong that also did their research and done it before, but not the person who (most of the time) won't do research? You can explain it, sure, but when most of the time you try to explain something you get:

"DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO I DO WATEVA I WANT!"
"(EXPLETIVE!)"
"ELITIST!"

and so on, you really don't bother trying to explain to people...especially the ones who remain silent but are obvious new then get offended when you tell them they're doing x wrong or if they actually know what's going on. Watching a quick 4-5 minute over view video or reading a wiki for general idea is why they're there. I bet people read/watch tutorials on other things no problem.

When I see the new guy message pop up I always ask who's new, and I always explain the more "obscure" mechanic before a boss if they tell me they don't know how to deal with them. I never had someone call me elitist or whatever. I'm not saying that aren't people like that, but maybe your attitude in offering help isn't the best either. Trolls are trolls and should be ignored regardless of how many times they've run a dungeon. Everybody else though is usually pretty nice and open to tips.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

He has a good point though - What does make the 3 people wrong that also did their research and done it before, but not the person who (most of the time) won't do research? You can explain it, sure, but when most of the time you try to explain something you get:

"DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO I DO WATEVA I WANT!"
"(EXPLETIVE!)"
"ELITIST!"

and so on, you really don't bother trying to explain to people...especially the ones who remain silent but are obvious new then get offended when you tell them they're doing x wrong or if they actually know what's going on. Watching a quick 4-5 minute over view video or reading a wiki for general idea is why they're there. I bet people read/watch tutorials on other things no problem.

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This is what I said in a similar thread. I feel like there's just no middle ground you can't be nice and you can't say no without someone's feeling hurt by either..

It's basically firing blind and hoping for the best.. I really think this just stems from how the game is currently structured. Everyone is on edge wondering which random has a knife to their back, and sooner expects the worse rather than best of the community.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

He has a good point though - What does make the 3 people wrong that also did their research and done it before, but not the person who (most of the time) won't do research? You can explain it, sure, but when most of the time you try to explain something you get:

"DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO I DO WATEVA I WANT!"
"(EXPLETIVE!)"
"ELITIST!"

and so on, you really don't bother trying to explain to people...especially the ones who remain silent but are obvious new then get offended when you tell them they're doing x wrong or if they actually know what's going on. Watching a quick 4-5 minute over view video or reading a wiki for general idea is why they're there. I bet people read/watch tutorials on other things no problem.

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ok so you that what reason that make you put all new people or first timer the same as them. Those people like that are totaly different they dont want to get advice so you put your rage from those hardhead player on new kind player that are willing to learn ???

Just wow. those player normaly never ask help when they act like that they event dont say hello just want to finish the dungeon and forget about the 3 other member that help him... that mean you are allowed to just ditch the party cos he being rude for just an friendly advice. But being mean to a new friendly player who just want to learn by trying and have fun is kinda harsh dont you think?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Hey if all you wanna be is right here's your cookie, no one has to explain anything to anyone because everybody can Google things. Grats! You don't look ridiculous at all arguing for pages about it "not being an obligation" over a 30 seconds explanation.

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Excuse me then for being a bit upset by someone saying that a person who don't want to teach someone, is a.. ahh yes, antisocial tool. The kind of animosity that exist towards veteran gamers from people here are astounding.

And I'm actually happy for you that you have gotten 0 very bad new players in your groups. For me it was around 50/50. Not so much rude, just never says anything even if I ask.

Not sure if it's language barrier issues or something.

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

Did someone really just compare videos of a video game with the history of the real life world in terms of importance? Really? Seriously?

I... Don't... Even...

Maybe you need to take a break from gaming and see what the world is like if you feel a game holds that much importance.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

It's macro to micro comparison. Do you really not understand something that basic?

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It's people like you who make MMO communities such a bad place. Instead of treating it as a real life situation with consequences to your actions and interactions with real people you treat it as "just a game". If you do something wrong you don't expect to be punished for it because it's "just a game". You don't think about other peoples feelings and opinions because it's "just a game". You don't learn from others or your own mistakes because it's "just a game".

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Your comment is not related to the context of mine.

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I had the perception that you were replying/contributing to the topic, agreeing with those who think people should watch videos.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Her point made perfect sense though - Research is important no matter what. It's there for you, you can't play this game unless you have an internet connection, meaning you have all of the resources available to you in some fashion. No computer? Your ps3/Ps4 can browse info for the most part. Chances are you have a smartphone as well.

No PS3/PS4? You're obviously not playing the game then.

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In this game it's not just research, it's straight out cheating considering everything is scripted, videos tell you exactly what and when will happen, not much of a guide, it kills the fun of the learning stage.

One thing I do agree with you is that it's not unreasonable to skip the learning stage for very old fights, but hullbreaker is hardly old, it was added in the last major patch. Dungeons in general are easy enough that it doesn't justify skipping the fun of the learning part just because a few people are impatient.

As for the quote, I agree with the core point Ispano tried to make, saying that all all guides should be deleted is ridiculous, though the history book analogy seems a bit inappropriate in this context.

Only thing though, while it tells you 100%, people still can't get T5 down or even beat Turn 6 with all the info and videos available - It just simply means some people aren't able to clear content. I can watch a video of a swordsman slicing apples being hurled at him, doesn't mean I'll automatically master it :p

It's more like it's a guide to give you a general idea, you still have to actually be there to get the feel of battle. Going in completely blind on older content when this game doesn't get a flood of new people everyday is why some people get absolutely livid when you don't watch a video. It's always more fun to go in blind and hope for the best...if you're in a pre-made group or state specifically in PF before hand.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

In this game it's not just research, it's straight out cheating considering everything is scripted, videos tell you exactly what and when will happen, not much of a guide, it kills the fun of the learning stage.

One thing I do agree with you is that it's not unreasonable to skip the learning stage for very old fights, but hullbreaker is hardly old, it was added in the last major patch. Dungeons in general are easy enough that it doesn't justify skipping the fun of the learning part just because a few people are impatient.

As for the quote, I agree with the core point Ispano tried to make, saying that all all guides should be deleted is ridiculous, though the history book analogy seems a bit inappropriate in this context.

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Except it's not. I will be one of the many that will agree that learning from a guide or video is nothing like experiencing it yourself. Even for people who can pick up mechanics easily from watching someone else do it, ie from a video, there's an even smaller amount of those people who can actually learn from that experience and improve upon it. Most of those who can pick it up from the video, just imitate it. Once things change, the flaw presents itself. But in the end, the person still has to execute the mechanics and clear the content, the guide or video doesn't do it for him or allow him to ignore the mechanics, like a cheat would.

Also, Hullbreaker is most certainly old. How much of the population do you believe is truly new to that dungeon in comparison to those who are not? Not saying you need guides or anything, or enforcing it either, but it's still old in the scheme of things.

Really cannot blame the person who rage quit. FF14 is a game that is so heavy handed when it comes to spoon feed you, type everything for you, giving you bazilion message "please do THIS". The problem is, people DO NOT read, and too dumb to function.... They want NOW, ZERG everything, SPEED RUN, GIMME GIMME, ESC Skip ALL!!

If you manage to get to Hullbreaker Isle, let's hope there is some resemblance of "I can use my brain" and understand the game mechanic. As for OP, he is not new to this, so if he is tank, he controls the game flow. STOP before every boss, give explanation on how to do it, which is fairly simple.

Boss 1. Kill Adds, FAST, DPS stop focusing on boss when add spawns.... Have your healer click the banana tree when Boss is raging and AOE everyone. Repeat.

Boss 2. Kill Boss. Avoid AOE, DO NOT Run into the bubble, WAIT till the boss goes under and create a whirlwind, by this stage there should be a good 4-5 bubbles, when it whirlwind swirl, goes inside the bubble. Don't go in too early. Repeat...

Boss 3. 4 islands, 2 "tentacles" each, kill them on EACH island, 2 at a time. When you get green mark, you use the water jets to jump to another island, dump the cyclone there. Go back kill boss. Find the "main tentacle" that hops around between islands, kill it, watch for your green mark and the island with whirlwind cyclone.

This game has big problems with DPS suffering from tunnel vision and brain freeze... If you plan to play DPS, FFS, DEAL with ADDS and GAME Mechanics, stop thinking its auto attack spam buttons while I sit my ass, and HEAL!!! FLASH!!! PROVOKE!!! Otherwise play a much easier job which is tank and healer :) Learn to assume responsibility and share your roles and duties.

The funny part is, ranged DPS can nuke down the arms safely from a distance, so if you end up with ranged DPS, they can split off and make the final boss that much easier than it already is. (Cept for the main 2, which still takes your team.)

I'm just gonna move to the flank for my Dragon Kic...now I'm in a bubble.
I've learned everything from Second Coil to EX primals by doing them. Now I execute them like a playlist and I go full auto. I take in next to nothing by watching videos because that's the kinda person I am.
That being said I understand both sides, if your running the same thing day in day out people will get easily frustrated when it doesn't go smoothly and worse still if they're unwilling to take advice so we can clear like Mae's scenario above.
HOWEVER that's no excuse for the way he spoke to you and as others suggested I would also suggest reporting him.
I love it when there's a new player to help in an instance I really do (if they are willing to accept my help), it breaks up the monotony of yet another roulette and you can walk away feeling those commendations were actually deserved.

The problem: Duty finder.

The solution: Friends.

Seriously people act like they expect the people in the duty finder to play by "Their rules" wether that be speed runs ahoy or slow and steady learning. The duty finder is as good as playing blind, you never know what kind of members you will get, nor should you expect to find a dream team.

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Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

I think it inconsiderate to use duty finder and not know the fights.

Sure, I understand the idea of going in blind and how a segment of players enjoys that. However, those players should seek out like minded people to explore and learn fights with rather than subject some random strangers to their ineptitude.

If you want to use duty finder as a personal explorer mode, run the dungeon the 1st week it is out when most of the player base does not know the dungeon. Otherwise, watch a video or find three other people/friends who want to spend an hour running a 15 min dungeon.

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you should just use Party Finder. that is what it is there for, DF is not there for you and your impatient likeminded players. it is there for players to queue up and get it done. even if that means helping first time players learn it. seriously use PF or don't complain.

I refuse to use someone elses video to learn a fight in a game I pay to play just like everyone else. too bad if you don't like that there are players like me who feel the same

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

you should just use Party Finder. that is what it is there for, DF is not there for you and your impatient likeminded players. it is there for players to queue up and get it done. even if that means helping first time players learn it. seriously use PF or don't complain.

I refuse to use someone elses video to learn a fight in a game I pay to play just like everyone else. too bad if you don't like that there are players like me who feel the same

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And you're free to play that way, you're just the minority with content being as old as it is. When it's new it's completely different however.